View Full Version : Oklahoma River Water Causes Illnesses



soonerguru
06-10-2009, 02:23 PM
Per Health Department report. Despite what was previously reported here, there were 45 triathletes made ill from the river.

Oklahoma River water caused triathletes' illness, health department says

By The Associated Press
Published: June 10, 2009

Contamination in the Oklahoma River was to blame for sickening dozens of participants in an international triathlon held last month, the state health officials said Wednesday.
At least 45 participants in the Boathouse International Triathlon in Oklahoma City became sick with gastrointestinal problems after the event held May 16-17.
The Oklahoma Department of Health said the illness was related to exposure to water during swimming practice sessions or during the swim portion of the event.
"Laboratory analyses of stool specimens from a few ill athletes were positive for different gastrointestinal agents, including norovirus, and a couple of different kinds of bacteria and parasites, all of which are compatible with this gastrointestinal outbreak and which could be associated with exposure to water contaminated with human or animal waste," the department said in a statement.
Athletes swam 1.5 kilometers in the downtown river as part of the triathlon. After the event, some of the participants reported diarrhea, vomiting, abdominal cramping and fever.
The river has tested high for bacteria, particularly after high runoff from storms.
There were 367 participants in the triathlon. A total of 218 responded to a health department survey and of that number, 45 reported symptoms.
"The amount of time spent swimming in the river during the practice sessions and during the event is the only significant exposure associated with the development of diarrheal illness among participants," said Lauri Smithee, chief of the health department's acute disease service.
Mike Knopp, director of the OKC Boathouse Foundation, which helped organize the event, said the disease outbreak was unfortunate.
"This is a one-time incident that is specific to triathlon, and event organizers will take every precaution to make sure it doesn't happen again," he said.
The state Department of Health said a working group of several agencies will study the event to learn how such problems can be avoided in the future.

http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-river-water-caused-triathletes-illness-health-department-says/article/3376594?custom_click=lead_story_title

Pete
06-10-2009, 02:43 PM
Wow, is this a PR nightmare.

No matter what the city does now, the river will always be viewed as unclean and nasty... Just as hundreds of millions are being poured into civic and private investment.

I simply don't understand how the organizers could have let this happen. As I've stated before, I've swam in all types of open water and a lot of it was considered by most to be somewhat dirty. And I've never heard of this sort of thing happening at a triathlon.

The water mush have been pretty darn bad to cause so many illnesses. The swimmers simply aren't in the water that long and generally don't ingest much of it. Did they not test it before hand? Seems like the said they did but decided to go on anyway?

I can't imagine they'll ever be able to hold another tri in that river no matter how much work is put into cleaning it up. And forever on, even rowers may be reluctant to compete there.

progressiveboy
06-10-2009, 02:54 PM
I see in the Tulsa World they are commenting on "How Embarrasing for OKC". It seems OKC is always taking 2 steps forward and 100 steps back. This is such an embarrasment for OKC. If I were an investor on the river or "ditch" as Tulsa calls it, I would not sink a dime into that area. Such bad karma for OKC but then again, OKC better sink or swim, or should I say s_ _ t and swim, lol.

soonerguru
06-10-2009, 03:03 PM
This really worries me about Core to Shore. It could be a massive boondoggle.

The city leaders had better wake up to the fact that the citizens of OKC want transit first. Period.

I will go so far as to say that if meaningful transit upgrades are left out of MAPS I will definitely vote -- and possibly campaign -- against it.

Regarding the storm drain runoff: What Einstein was in charge of turning all of our natural creeks and channels into concrete drainage ditches? It is a disgusting eyesore and surely contributes to the pollution of the river.

Pete
06-10-2009, 03:08 PM
BTW, there are plenty of similar dammed rivers where triathlons are routinely held.

In fact, they do Ironman Arizona in Tempe Town Lake, which is very similar to the OK River. Yet, no one ever gets sick there or gives a second thought to swimming in that water. The swim portion of the NYC triathlon is held in the Hudson, they have them in Lake Erie, etc. etc.

Triathlons or not, someone in the city government better figure out how to get that water cleaned up and this should have been addressed long before now.

If someone can't be in a body of water for less than a half an hour (in a full wetsuit!) without become violently ill, then we should stop and deal with this problem before much else is done in or around there.

Pete
06-10-2009, 03:11 PM
guru, the first phase of Core to Shore won't extend past the new I-40, so I'm not too worried about that.

Unless, of course, OCURA is put in charge... But that's a whole other Oprah.

LordGerald
06-10-2009, 08:10 PM
Wow, is this a PR nightmare.

No matter what the city does now, the river will always be viewed as unclean and nasty... Just as hundreds of millions are being poured into civic and private investment.

I simply don't understand how the organizers could have let this happen. As I've stated before, I've swam in all types of open water and a lot of it was considered by most to be somewhat dirty. And I've never heard of this sort of thing happening at a triathlon.

The water mush have been pretty darn bad to cause so many illnesses. The swimmers simply aren't in the water that long and generally don't ingest much of it. Did they not test it before hand? Seems like the said they did but decided to go on anyway?

I can't imagine they'll ever be able to hold another tri in that river no matter how much work is put into cleaning it up. And forever on, even rowers may be reluctant to compete there.

The river has always been nasty. The pathogen (TMDL) report conducted in 2006 said as much. City leadership tried to censure the report as "alarmist," but the fact that the river was toxic should not have been a secret to anyone in the know.

Pete
06-10-2009, 08:24 PM
Reading back through the articles, it said the race director had received results of water tests that showed the water was unsafe but felt the trend was heading in the right direction, and opted to go forward anyway.

Somebody in city government should stepped in... Of course the race organizer is not going to call a race, especially when they have people coming in from all over the country as part of a national circuit. And what does he know about water quality and risks anyway, especially since this was the first time this race had been conducted?

The people running the race merely decided to roll the dice and hope people didn't get sick and/or didn't make a big deal about it if they did.

But now all of OKC pays the price; especially those with considerable investment in the river and future developments. And it's at the very least quite embarrassing for the entire community.

soonerguru
06-10-2009, 09:12 PM
The people who ran the race should have been more responsible to the people coming from around the country. Think about it. If they knew the river was unsafe and allowed the race to go on, they could be sued. Also, if they have any abiding interest in continuing to promote events at the river, they should have sounded the alarm. The race director majorly, majorly screwed up.

Pete
06-10-2009, 09:20 PM
I've done tri's all over the country and as a racer, you totally rely on the race director to 1) know the conditions and 2) exercise good judgment.

In fact, in two different races I had the swim canceled, once while I was in my wetsuit waiting at the starting line. They merely waited as long as they could before determining the conditions just weren't safe. That is always disappointing, but it's part of the sport.

And the bottom line is that the people doing these races rely on the organizers to know what they are doing and to keep them safe. That obviously didn't happen this time around.

And worse yet, it's not just that this event got some bad PR, it makes the whole city and specifically the river look bad.

When you are talking about 25% of those surveyed reporting illness, that's pretty outrageous.

Architect2010
06-10-2009, 11:38 PM
I thought the river was fine for the event, except that the runoff from the storm right before the event had significantly risen the level of harmful thingamajiigs in the water.

Of course, I'd say the real embarassment isn't our river quality, rather that we didn't ensure safety first when we decided to let people jump into it.

kevinpate
06-11-2009, 05:02 AM
I suspect there's more than one politico sitting around, slapping a forehead and wondering why dinna we just leave the damned name thingy alone, cause then it'd be sick folks in the North Canadian river.

I keed. No politico ever rethinks a position. it makes their lil' heads hurt too much.

Maybe we can rename the stretch the Okiescansurepoopsie Swamp

proud2Bsooner
06-11-2009, 02:01 PM
I've done tri's all over the country and as a racer, you totally rely on the race director to 1) know the conditions and 2) exercise good judgment.

In fact, in two different races I had the swim canceled, once while I was in my wetsuit waiting at the starting line. They merely waited as long as they could before determining the conditions just weren't safe. That is always disappointing, but it's part of the sport.

And the bottom line is that the people doing these races rely on the organizers to know what they are doing and to keep them safe. That obviously didn't happen this time around.

And worse yet, it's not just that this event got some bad PR, it makes the whole city and specifically the river look bad.

When you are talking about 25% of those surveyed reporting illness, that's pretty outrageous.

25% is inaccurate. More like 12%. 45 out of 367.

I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about, other than it probably is not a good venue for a triathlon. The river can be gross, but it is drainage for a good chunk of the City. Additionally, if someone can come up with a good way to control geese, then the E. coli can be controlled. So what I am saying is that you can't control it. I have not rowed in other areas like Boston or Philly, but I have heard that the Oklahoma River is actually, in general, much cleaner than those venues. The problem generally only lasts for a period of time when there has been a lot of rain. I row and kayak regularly in the Oklahoma River, and there is a huge difference between the water quality of the Spring and now. In the Spring, trash, grass clippings and logs are aplenty. Now the water is nice with hardly any junk floating.

soonerguru
06-11-2009, 02:19 PM
I honestly don't know what all the fuss is about

Please. You think it's good for OKC to get international press that its river has sickened people with fecal matter? You don't think there should be such a "fuss" about contestants from around the nation becoming sickened at an event sanctioned in our city, with the expectation that the water was safe enough to host the event?


Additionally, if someone can come up with a good way to control geese

Surely you aren't suggesting that the bacterial problem is strictly the result of goose guano, are you?


I have heard that the Oklahoma River is actually, in general, much cleaner than those venues

Oh really? Please let us know the source. Fellow rowers? Employees of Chesapeake? The city's public affairs department?


Now the water is nice with hardly any junk floating

Great, so we don't have visible piles of floating garbage in the river right now. Wonderful. But are you suggesting the river is OK to swim in?

I'm really not trying to pick on you, but your post seems breezy and not very thought through.

Personally, I think it would be in the best interest of the city to try to reduce pollution in the river, whether or not it's used by triathletes.

soonerguru
06-11-2009, 02:28 PM
Strange. The Oklahoman has completely pulled the story from the website that was formerly titled "Oklahoma City Officials Take Proactive Measure for River Health" or something like that. It was an unintentionally hilarious headline, but the story has been completely vaporized. Perhaps Steve knows some insider info on it.

Nevermind. Here's the cached version before it was totally nuked.

Triathlon: Oklahoma City takes proactive steps on river quality
Comments 40

BY BRIAN KIMBALL
Published: June 11, 2009
Contamination in the Oklahoma River, including from E. coli bacteria, caused nearly four dozen triathletes to become sick after a race in May, the state Health Department confirmed Wednesday.
Samples were taken of the water in the river in the days leading up to the Boathouse International Triathlon, and on the day of the event, but organizers said the levels of bacteria and parasites were within the acceptable range and went ahead with the triathlon.
"I’m not upset because it didn’t affect me, but you take a risk swimming in any public waterway,” said Chad Meiler of Shawnee, who took part in the triathlon but was not among the 45 athletes who fell ill. "It’s all in doing the events, and you take numerous risks in doing that stuff anyway.”
Health Department spokesman Laurence Burnsed said officials are setting up meetings with Oklahoma City officials, the Oklahoma Water Resources Board, the state Department of Environmental Quality and the Oklahoma City-County Health Department to develop recommendations on how to prevent similar occurrences in the future.
Mike Knopp, executive director for the Chesapeake Boathouse, said the incident was specific to the triathlon and they would "take every precaution to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”
Oklahoma City spokeswoman Kristy Yager said a more aggressive approach to testing the tributaries that feed into the Oklahoma River is one of the changes that will be made. The additional testing is especially important when it rains, Yager said, because that increases the amount of bacteria, parasites and animal waste that leak into the water.
"We’re working on a plan right now to set up several different monitoring sites,” Yager said, adding there should be a more concrete plan in the next couple of weeks.

http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-takes-proactive-steps-on-oklahoma-river-quality/article/3376755?custom_click=lead_story_photo

Pete
06-11-2009, 02:29 PM
25% is inaccurate. More like 12%. 45 out of 367.

Only 218 responded to the survey and 45 reported illness.

proud2Bsooner
06-11-2009, 03:15 PM
Only 218 responded to the survey and 45 reported illness.

Maybe the other 149 died. Ha. So then I guess you're saying we don't really know how many got sick. Between 12 and 25%. I'm betting if you got sick you reported. And if you didn't, you didn't report.

guru, I don't care if you're trying to pick on me. Are you suggesting that people are crapping in the river? What is your solution? I'm telling you, it's runoff from creeks, and geese poop. Geese are KNOWN carriers of E. coli. Geese are a big problem, and if you spend much time on the river, you know there are tons of geese, and you know the river runs much slower than normal because it is dammed up. The runoff is another problem. You have animal waste from all sorts of critters, and all sorts of other runoff like fertilizers and chemicals that go into creeks. The creeks drain to the river. How does this get corrected? Your guess is as good as mine. The river is a huge drainage ditch, and we have to accept it for what it is. The naysayers day its a dirty drainage ditch. The positive ones say its a great place to boat.

You are clearly in finger pointing mode, and it doesn't sound like you have put much thought into your thoughts.

Perhaps they should not have commenced the race. I don't know, nor do I care that much. The river is a premier venue for rowing, not triathlons. I'm sure Tulsans can get a kick out of this, but who cares. They are 15-20 years behind OKC in development. Tulsa has the Arkansas. It flows naturally, and is not a premier rowing venue. It is a premier barging venue.

Pete
06-11-2009, 04:33 PM
Maybe the other 149 died. Ha. So then I guess you're saying we don't really know how many got sick. Between 12 and 25%. I'm betting if you got sick you reported. And if you didn't, you didn't report.

That logic makes no sense since the large majority that responded to the survey did not report getting sick.

Anyway, you called out my post as being inaccurate when it clearly stated I was referencing the racers that completed the survey. I don't mind being corrected and will always admit when I was in the wrong. Others should do the same.

gmwise
06-11-2009, 04:53 PM
You know theres a good reason why some want to blame wildlife for their guano filled lives.
The City should encourage a bat colony to control the insect pests, and geese.. good grief were you chased by one as a child?
The River just needs a professional in charged of its maintence and a safety director to ensure another forehead thump doesnt occur.
Seperate question did the boat event occur on the River, last time it was cancelled and the promoter didnt make good on refunds or retimed it.
I think having a River Czar who ensure safety maintaince and the use shows how serious the City is about not letting this happen again can keep the PR nightmare from happening again.

soonerguru
06-11-2009, 04:55 PM
Maybe the other 149 died. Ha. So then I guess you're saying we don't really know how many got sick. Between 12 and 25%. I'm betting if you got sick you reported. And if you didn't, you didn't report.

guru, I don't care if you're trying to pick on me. Are you suggesting that people are crapping in the river? What is your solution? I'm telling you, it's runoff from creeks, and geese poop. Geese are KNOWN carriers of E. coli. Geese are a big problem, and if you spend much time on the river, you know there are tons of geese, and you know the river runs much slower than normal because it is dammed up. The runoff is another problem. You have animal waste from all sorts of critters, and all sorts of other runoff like fertilizers and chemicals that go into creeks. The creeks drain to the river. How does this get corrected? Your guess is as good as mine. The river is a huge drainage ditch, and we have to accept it for what it is. The naysayers day its a dirty drainage ditch. The positive ones say its a great place to boat.

You are clearly in finger pointing mode, and it doesn't sound like you have put much thought into your thoughts.

Perhaps they should not have commenced the race. I don't know, nor do I care that much. The river is a premier venue for rowing, not triathlons. I'm sure Tulsans can get a kick out of this, but who cares. They are 15-20 years behind OKC in development. Tulsa has the Arkansas. It flows naturally, and is not a premier rowing venue. It is a premier barging venue.

As stated, I'm not trying to pick on you. To be clear, the North Canadian (aka Oklahoma) River is not a drainage ditch, and wasn't built to be a drainage ditch.

I don't profess to know how to fix it, as I'm not an expert on environmental cleanup. But it can be done. There are many urban rivers -- in cities far more "urban" than OKC -- that have successfully been cleaned up. Surely it's possible here.

As your post also says, there are many other factors besides geese involved, as your earlier post seemed to imply.

I only objected to your "who cares" flippancy.

onthestrip
06-11-2009, 06:32 PM
Yes, the water being full of bacteria is bad, but I dont think its as bad as most are making it to be. First, I dont think the river is that great of venue for a triathlon to begin with. Hefner might as well be OKC's unofficial triathlon host. The river is positioned to be a rowing river, not a swimming river. This is not the end of the world for the Oklahoma River. That said, Im still all for cleaning it up.

JerzeeGrlinOKC
06-11-2009, 07:20 PM
FYI for this "drainage ditch" talk, the drainage area of the North Canadian River is 13,200 square miles (only about 8,000 of which are actually contributing runoff, even less if you think about how much is held back by Canton Lake, Lake Overholser, and whatever is diverted to Hefner). True that city runoff ends up there, but please be aware that there are many factors that contribute bacteria to the stream. Would you swim in any raw stream in Oklahoma (barring the Illinois, and that's also subject of a lawsuit...). Probably not. Contact with any untreated water is dangerous, plain and simple.

If you want to look at some free and up-to-date water quality data, USGS has links to both real-time water quailty and samples that they take on a monthly basis. Closest site is just after Lake Overholser. Fecal Coliform samples are taken monthly. Here's the link for anyone interested:

USGS ** USGS 07241000 North Canadian River blw Lk Overholser nr OKC, OK (http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/nwisman/?site_no=07241000&agency_cd=USGS)

LakeEffect
06-11-2009, 08:07 PM
Contact with any untreated water is dangerous, plain and simple.


I wouldn't say contact with any untreated water is dangerous... I swam in Lake Michigan every summer for 25 years (and still get to at least once a summer), and I never acquired an infection. But the combination of stagnant water, uncontrolled runoff within and outside City limits, and no stormwater treatment makes the River a dangerous spot.

soonerguru
06-12-2009, 12:58 AM
Would you swim in any raw stream in Oklahoma

Yes, I would, and I have. Although most of them are in beautiful, remote areas of Northeastern, Southeastern and Southcentral Oklahoma. I've never had a problem.

Spring Creek, a tributary of the Illinois, is one of the cleanest streams in the US.

We do have clean, fresh water in this state, although chicken farming in NE Oklahoma has seriously screwed up that karst watershed.

JerzeeGrlinOKC
06-12-2009, 01:01 PM
Yes, I would, and I have. Although most of them are in beautiful, remote areas of Northeastern, Southeastern and Southcentral Oklahoma. I've never had a problem.

Spring Creek, a tributary of the Illinois, is one of the cleanest streams in the US.

We do have clean, fresh water in this state, although chicken farming in NE Oklahoma has seriously screwed up that karst watershed.

As I said, barring the Illinois...I swam in it too. And I'm fine. And as I said, and it appears that you're aware, its also the subject of an ongoing lawsuit due to non-point source pollution. Knowing what I know now I probably wouldn't swim in it, but I know too much...

Anyhow, that was not my intended point. I apologize. Perhaps a miscommunication. Let me rephrase: You should take caution when swimming in any untreated natural waters, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Florida, Oregon, anywhere. Every freshwater stream has different risks of pollution and bacterial contamination, and if you're not careful, sickness is easy. Doesn't matter how clean you think it is, or because you've always swam in it and you're fine and everyone you know has swam it in and they're fine. Doesn't matter if its beautiful and pristine and the trees are green and its sunny with birds chirping and even fish swimming around. You shouldn't be surprised if you swim in natural waters (including Spring Creek, and I swam/waded in Spring Creek too) and develop stomach illnesses, at any time in the future. Its risky. Bacterial pollution, although somewhat correlated to observable turbid conditions like occurs after a rain event, is "invisible".

And I happen to be pretty familiar with the water quality conditions on the North Canadian River and would never swim in it if I didn't have to. Not upstream/near OKC (where the athletes became ill), but certainly not downstream of the Veolia WWT plant (like near Harrah, etc).

Hope my point is now better stated. Thanks.

JerzeeGrlinOKC
06-12-2009, 01:16 PM
Spring Creek, a tributary of the Illinois, is one of the cleanest streams in the US.

Just curious, but where have you heard this? I would be cautious to make this assumption given the mixed land-use in the Illinois River Basin, but I've not seen specific data on the Spring Creek trib to make any conclusions from. And again, I swam in it at a popular watering hole several summers ago (and did not get sick, and I feel fortunate). Maybe I met you and we don't even know it...

:Smiley051

soonerguru
06-12-2009, 03:23 PM
JerzeeGirl,

The report was from ODEQ, from their water sample in the last year. It was one of two streams that rated very high from their sample.

soonerguru
06-12-2009, 03:24 PM
There's also an active group of landowners who are working to keep it pure. Other Ozark streams have been compromised by chicken poop and runoff from the plant farms.

JerzeeGrlinOKC
06-12-2009, 04:30 PM
JerzeeGirl,

The report was from ODEQ, from their water sample in the last year. It was one of two streams that rated very high from their sample.

Interesting. I tried to look online for the data but am having trouble, do you have a link? I did find the following newsok article:

http://newsok.com/five-bodies-of-water-ruled-clean/article/3254446

The article says that the stream is regulated and that helps with storm runoff issues, and that as you said a landowner group is helping enact pollution reducing management practices in the basin. I'm trying to find more info though. Some questions one might ask:

1.) How is the dam regulated? At what flow is the spillway/release designed for? An extreme event may cause runoff to reach the creek where people swim (although I hope folks would have enough sense not to swim just after a major flood event, for both drowning and contamination risks) - extreme flow can bring a high bacterial loading, even from "natural" sources. I'm not sure on the basin size, so maybe this isn't even an issue - just a question I have at this time not knowing much about that particular tributary.

2.) When and where was the sampling done? One issue that comes to mind is bacterial pollution from swimmers themselves. When I went to the creek it was very crowded and there were many small children there. I'm not sure how often the swimming hole is occupied, I was taken there by someone else just once, so I could be mistaken (heck, we might not even be talking about the same stream here, just assuming we are). But anyhow, if this is true, was the sampling done downstream from the watering hole or downstream from known pasture areas, during the summer months? Just something to consider.

3.) Similar to question 1 above, was the sampling done during both high and low flow conditions? Bacterial contamination, as is loading from many constituents, can vary greatly with streamflow (and I'm also assuming that the clean status also has to do with bacterial concentrations from the samples). Again though one assumes that most swimming is done at low flow and so low flow sampling should be pretty representative.

Regardless, its good to hear that in general there is a low probably of bacterial contamination under the sampling conditions in which ODEQ made their assessment. Still not convinced at this time that it is the "cleanest stream in the US" - but again, that's a very hard goal to achieve. As someone who deals with these issues regularly, I'm looking for that water quality data and trying to answer some of the questions above. Anyhow, sounds like if you're going to pick a stream to swim in, according to ODEQ, Spring Creek is probably a good bet compared to other streams. There is always a risk though...

If you can find an online link to the sampling report, could you post a link, that would be really cool. Unfortunately my search on the ODEQ website for this particular site is not resulting in much luck (and Spring Creek is the name of several unrelated bodies of water too which makes things confusing). I realize that this is sort of off topic, so feel free to send me a PM too.

But to tie this back to the original topic - I still stand behind this - there is always a risk of bacterial illness from contact with natural waters even if the sampling data, taken under certain conditions where certain assumptions are made, reveals otherwise. The level of risk is always the question. But no surprises about the sickened athletes, and no blame for the source until more questions are answered (and even if the questions are answered, there may not be much we can do about it...)

:tiphat:

gmwise
06-12-2009, 05:24 PM
Interesting. I tried to look online for the data but am having trouble, do you have a link? I did find the following newsok article:

http://newsok.com/five-bodies-of-water-ruled-clean/article/3254446

The article says that the stream is regulated and that helps with storm runoff issues, and that as you said a landowner group is helping enact pollution reducing management practices in the basin. I'm trying to find more info though. Some questions one might ask:

1.) How is the dam regulated? At what flow is the spillway/release designed for? An extreme event may cause runoff to reach the creek where people swim (although I hope folks would have enough sense not to swim just after a major flood event, for both drowning and contamination risks) - extreme flow can bring a high bacterial loading, even from "natural" sources. I'm not sure on the basin size, so maybe this isn't even an issue - just a question I have at this time not knowing much about that particular tributary.

2.) When and where was the sampling done? One issue that comes to mind is bacterial pollution from swimmers themselves. When I went to the creek it was very crowded and there were many small children there. I'm not sure how often the swimming hole is occupied, I was taken there by someone else just once, so I could be mistaken (heck, we might not even be talking about the same stream here, just assuming we are). But anyhow, if this is true, was the sampling done downstream from the watering hole or downstream from known pasture areas, during the summer months? Just something to consider.

3.) Similar to question 1 above, was the sampling done during both high and low flow conditions? Bacterial contamination, as is loading from many constituents, can vary greatly with streamflow (and I'm also assuming that the clean status also has to do with bacterial concentrations from the samples). Again though one assumes that most swimming is done at low flow and so low flow sampling should be pretty representative.

Regardless, its good to hear that in general there is a low probably of bacterial contamination under the sampling conditions in which ODEQ made their assessment. Still not convinced at this time that it is the "cleanest stream in the US" - but again, that's a very hard goal to achieve. As someone who deals with these issues regularly, I'm looking for that water quality data and trying to answer some of the questions above. Anyhow, sounds like if you're going to pick a stream to swim in, according to ODEQ, Spring Creek is probably a good bet compared to other streams. There is always a risk though...

If you can find an online link to the sampling report, could you post a link, that would be really cool. Unfortunately my search on the ODEQ website for this particular site is not resulting in much luck (and Spring Creek is the name of several unrelated bodies of water too which makes things confusing). I realize that this is sort of off topic, so feel free to send me a PM too.

But to tie this back to the original topic - I still stand behind this - there is always a risk of bacterial illness from contact with natural waters even if the sampling data, taken under certain conditions where certain assumptions are made, reveals otherwise. The level of risk is always the question. But no surprises about the sickened athletes, and no blame for the source until more questions are answered (and even if the questions are answered, there may not be much we can do about it...)

:tiphat:

awesome set of questions!! go for it i wanna know too

urbanity
06-18-2009, 08:48 AM
Agencies differ on what contaminated Oklahoma River and which entities had responsibilities to monitor runoff:
Agencies differ on what contaminated the Oklahoma River | OKG Scene.com (http://tinyurl.com/leukrq)

soonerguru
06-18-2009, 08:52 AM
JerzeeGirl,

I have no idea.

It's a nice stream. It's a tributary to the Illinois. It's in Cherokee County. There is no dam on the stream.

Pete
06-18-2009, 09:14 AM
I’m having a hard reconciling both these points, as they have been made repeatedly in the press:


Before the race, officials from the state Water Resources Board and the City of Oklahoma City reported that there was little risk of swimming in the river. And levels before the race were reportedly decreasing.

And


Oklahoma City officials have said the levels of bacterial contamination were at 573 per 100 milliliters of water. A “safe” level for the river is a 126 count for E. coli, according to OWRB officials.


More contradiction:


Stool specimens were requested from the ill competitors and showed several gastrointestinal agents, including norovirus “and a couple of different kinds of bacteria and parasites, all of which are compatible with this gastrointestinal outbreak and which could be associated with exposure to water contaminated with human or animal waste,” according to a OSDH statement.

“Really, it’s the ingestion of the water that put these people at risk,” said Lauri Smithee, OSDH chief of acute disease division.

Then


Bret Sholar, race director for the Boathouse International Triathlon, said he would have never put people in the water if he didn’t think it was OK. He said, based on all the information he had at that time, he believed it would be safe for the athletes.

“We care deeply about the athletes and want them to be successful,” said Sholar. “We always want people to be safe.”

He said the OSDH report was “inconclusive,” and there were lots of different factors that could have been a cause, including the water.

Sholar said some race volunteers who were never in the water also became ill, so he feels like it still could have come from other sources.

He said one thing that wasn’t considered was that some of the symptoms — like vomiting — could be caused by dehydration, and the triathlon was the first really warm event of the year.

“You push your body to a certain limit, it’s going to kick back at you,” Sholar said.

He said the athletes know the risk factors of swimming in public bodies of water, much as the risk of riding their bicycles on public roads.


Also, this repeated line that “athletes know the risk factors” is implying that people get sick from the water in these races all the time. Yet, I’m not aware of anything like this ever happening and I’ve never seen another example cited.

As a triathlete, you rely on the race officials to not let you race if conditions are unsafe. That’s their job and as I’ve stated, I’ve done two races where they cancelled the swim, once at the very last minute.

And the idea the the heat and strain of the race caused a significant number of the illnesses is preposterous. In a race this size and distance, this may happen to a few people not a quarter of the participants.


I hope they determine the source of the bacteria, get the problem corrected and go forward with this race in the future. But changes need to be made and because I put my name out there with my opinions, I won’t say anything stronger at this point.

soonerguru
06-19-2009, 09:33 AM
He said the OSDH report was “inconclusive,” and there were lots of different factors that could have been a cause, including the water.

You know the rules of modern PR: obfuscate, deny, distract. Rinse and repeat. They're clearly making this up as they go, hoping the press will die down.

proud2Bsooner
06-19-2009, 11:23 AM
This week we rowed from the boathouse on Exchange Ave., and upstream just West of Agnew the smell from (presumably) The Stockyards was atrocious...really bad, and almost unbearable.Although... on second thought I am not certain that the smell was from the stockyards.

I never realized this, but there is a large topsoil operation right next to the river, within 50 yards or so. This could have actually been where the smell came from. If I were guessing, I would say that this operation takes the waste from stockyards and turns it into topsoil.

There are large piles of this topsoil within 50 yards of the river, and by viewing MSN's flyover map of the area it looks like drainage actually goes laterally East and/or West into drainage ditches that appear to empty into the river.

This was quite astonishing to me that such an operation would be so close to the river.

My previous theory of geese may be only a part of the problem. I now suspect that a large part of this problem is the topsoil operation.

I would post pictures of the area (from the flyover map on MSN), but I'll allow the rest of you to do that on your own.

Something needs to be done about this. It at least needs to be reviewed by DEQ and the City's stormwater cleanliness/control dept.

Pete
06-19-2009, 02:10 PM
There is a wakeboarding event in the river coming up on June 26th.

Not the same as swimming but still people are down in the water, have it flying in their faces, etc.

There are more and more events planned for in and around that river, all the more reason to find out the source of the problem and come up with some solutions.

soonerguru
06-19-2009, 03:41 PM
You could be right about that topsoil operation. If they're using animal excrement (yuk), it's obviously draining right into the main channel of the river.

Midtowner
06-19-2009, 04:29 PM
Agencies differ on what contaminated Oklahoma River and which entities had responsibilities to monitor runoff:
Agencies differ on what contaminated the Oklahoma River | OKG Scene.com (http://tinyurl.com/leukrq)

Shocking. SHOCKING that everyone thinks this was the fault of someone else (or says so anyhow).

OUSoonerfan3
06-20-2009, 05:10 AM
Something needs to be done about this. It at least needs to be reviewed by DEQ and the City's stormwater cleanliness/control dept.

I'm not sure how that would work, as the Stockyards and surrounding area are not part of Oklahoma City. It is an unincorporated area. I can see DEQ involved, but not OKC.

nik4411
06-20-2009, 07:41 AM
Occasionally my cousin and I go swimming/wading in the Canadian here in Norman, near the I-35 bridge...is this water ok?