I noticed there is some activity (new windows going in) on the building at the northwest corner of 10th and Broadway. I think it used to be an old Buick dealership. Does anyone know what the plans are here? I assume this is part of the Midtown Renaissance but was just curious.

Does anyone know anything???

It seems like that was (or is) a Midtown Renaissance property. What I had heard is it is being prepped for office use.

This seems like the greatest potential loft apartment building in the downtown area. I'm not sure why it's not being considered for residential use.

I think that the choice to build office is misplaced considering the incredible steady 90 percential leasing of apartments. The garage lofts are really some of the only "true" lofts downtown and some of the earliest housing- filled continuosly. Luke will probably come after me with "free market" tributes but I really feel that many of the "land squatters" also have little vision when it comes to the extraordinary buildings they possess. This is one of them.

Hey, I would love to use money that's not my own to play Sim City with all the land downtown. It would be great and I think I could come up with some great ideas.

However, as much as I may not like it, I respect the rights that property owners still have. I also do not think it fair to charge tax payers to fund my private development.

I also do not think it fair to charge tax payers to fund my private development.


So I take it you didn't support the tax for the Thunder/Ford Center renovation?

So I take it you didn't support the tax for the Thunder/Ford Center renovation?

That's correct.

That's correct.


You are to be admired for holding true to your beliefs.

I think that the choice to build office is misplaced considering the incredible steady 90 percential leasing of apartments. The garage lofts are really some of the only "true" lofts downtown and some of the earliest housing- filled continuosly. Luke will probably come after me with "free market" tributes but I really feel that many of the "land squatters" also have little vision when it comes to the extraordinary buildings they possess. This is one of them.


You may be correct that the building would make a great residential property, but a huge problem that the owners face for that use is parking. There is zero adjacent parking at the building, and there is no way you could use the building itself for parking, such as the 5th Avenue Lofts, because the building is too big for it. You would be cannibalizing so much of the building for parking, that the use would not be viable.

You are to be admired for holding true to your beliefs.

Well, thanks.

And just to prove private arenas work (and make the owners tons of money)...

Local News | Tale of two arenas, here and in Denver, is revealing | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060529&slug=privatearenas29m)

his article points out that the Denver model only works because there are four different sports playing in it and many of those sports are owned by the same sports group. Also the city paid for improvements to locate the arena and let the sports group out of a contract with the city..... Thus I would say that there was public money involved in the total outcome.

However, here's one reason cited by the article that addresses why a private arena probably wouldn't work in OKC:

"It's highly unlikely a single team can privately finance a building," said Bill Rhoda, a consultant with Dallas-based Convention Sports and Leisure International, who completed a study of NBA arenas for a Seattle Center task force this year. "The Nuggets couldn't have done that by themselves."

The Nuggets, like most of the dozen NBA teams now playing in private arenas, share their buildings with major-league hockey and other sports.

In Denver, the Pepsi Center also is home to the NHL's Colorado Avalanche, the Arena Football League's Colorado Crush and the Colorado Mammoth of the National Lacrosse League. Those teams — all owned by Kroenke — keep seats filled when the Nuggets aren't playing.

Diversity increases draw

"Having the four teams play here maximizes ticket revenue," said Brian Kitts, spokesman for Kroenke Sports. It also pumps up advertising contracts, concessions and suite sales. Basketball and hockey are the main attractions, but the smaller sports help, too.

However, here's one reason cited by the article that addresses why a private arena probably wouldn't work in OKC:

"It's highly unlikely a single team can privately finance a building," said Bill Rhoda, a consultant with Dallas-based Convention Sports and Leisure International, who completed a study of NBA arenas for a Seattle Center task force this year. "The Nuggets couldn't have done that by themselves."

The Nuggets, like most of the dozen NBA teams now playing in private arenas, share their buildings with major-league hockey and other sports.

In Denver, the Pepsi Center also is home to the NHL's Colorado Avalanche, the Arena Football League's Colorado Crush and the Colorado Mammoth of the National Lacrosse League. Those teams — all owned by Kroenke — keep seats filled when the Nuggets aren't playing.

Diversity increases draw

"Having the four teams play here maximizes ticket revenue," said Brian Kitts, spokesman for Kroenke Sports. It also pumps up advertising contracts, concessions and suite sales. Basketball and hockey are the main attractions, but the smaller sports help, too.

Exactly. They made it work.

Unfortunately, we only have one major league team to fund an arena unlike Denver's multiple teams. Thus, a private arena in Oklahoma City at this time would be extremely difficult.

Unfortunately, we only have one major league team to fund an arena unlike Denver's multiple teams. Thus, a private arena in Oklahoma City at this time would be extremely difficult.

True.

However, if big name companies like Chesapeake, SandRidge, Devon, Midfirst , The Oklahoman (and others...) and private individuals like Clay Bennett and Aubry McClendon (whose salary from last year alone could have BUILT the Ford Center with millions leftover) were involved, they could have easily built it and reaped the long term benefits of that investment.

I think it goes back to the mindset I have alluded to before.

Developers who have the money to build great things know that, anymore, they really don't have to foot the bill for much of the early stages if not all of a development's construction. Why? Because, as has become ubiquitous, cities are more eager to spend taxpayer dollars to lure these developers in.

So, the incentive for developers to spend their own money is minimized.

The city makes money off the arena due to all the other events outside of the Thunder, it did pretty well for itself before the Hornets or Thunder. Funny thing about it, it a team folds or moves the building still stays.

As far as eminent domain and things like that to force property owners to do something, well that is not right. What my thinking is on the matter is too late for empty lots. Since we use taxes for all sorts of incentives or all other sorts of behavior modifications (tobacco and liquor for example), the assessments should have been used to keep buildings on the lots and provide owners an incentive for keeping buildings in marketable condition to generate revenue instead of granting them a property tax relief for demolishing a building, that just feeds the empty lot speculator crowd because there is no incentive for them to do anything but wait for the one perfect sucker to take it off their hands. If you think something is worth 100,000 but the rest of the market thinks it is worth 20,000, then it is only worth 20,000, it doesn't matter what you think. Many bought at a low price and are waiting for the big kill instead of making a good profit. If they were faced with a larger property tax bill to cover every year that property might not seem worth as much.

...and we haven't had a "free market" since the Civil War, we have always had "managed markets" since that time..or you could say mis-managed but that's another discucssion. No matter how strongly free market proponents want everything to be that way we are headed in the opposite direction. "True" free markets will never exist as long as governments exist because they are incompatible. I read sites like Mises.org (http://www.mises.org/) and Lew Rockwell (http://www.lewrockwell.com/) but the reality is most of the population has no problem becoming serfs to gov't machine, in fact many seem to be seeking it. Movies like Brazil seem to be coming more and more true at a rapid pace. I just don't see things going the other way.

...but the reality is most of the population has no problem becoming serfs to gov't machine, in fact many seem to be seeking it. Movies like Brazil seem to be coming more and more true at a rapid pace. I just don't see things going the other way.

I'm glad you see it too.

I have hope that, like the original Revolutionaries, we, too, will awaken to what is happening and respond.

While our freedoms and liberties have been eroding and government has ever expanded, I don't think we should just sit idly by and give in.

Election after election we should not be forced to select between "the lesser of two evils". Instead we should abandon our entrenched notions of "R" and "D" and select freedom and liberty.

Somewhere along the line, government became the battleground for pushing ideas on everyone. Both the Left and the Right have opted for expanding and ensuring their version of power only to find that the other side uses that same power to further expand and ensure theirs. And so on...

Who would have thought that abiding by our founding documents would initiate true change in this nation.

It won't happen overnight. But, like peeling an onion, layer by layer of government, regulations, programs, incentives, subsidies and government invasion of privacy can be stripped away. It's possible. But people will have to wake up and vote out folks and vote in some new folks.

Either that or we truly will have a Revolution on our hands.

And THAT will be something to see.

I'm glad you see it too.

I have hope that, like the original Revolutionaries, we, too, will awaken to what is happening and respond.

While our freedoms and liberties have been eroding and government has ever expanded, I don't think we should just sit idly by and give in.

Election after election we should not be forced to select between "the lesser of two evils". Instead we should abandon our entrenched notions of "R" and "D" and select freedom and liberty.

Somewhere along the line, government became the battleground for pushing ideas on everyone. Both the Left and the Right have opted for expanding and ensuring their version of power only to find that the other side uses that same power to further expand and ensure theirs. And so on...

Who would have thought that abiding by our founding documents would initiate true change in this nation.

It won't happen overnight. But, like peeling an onion, layer by layer of government, regulations, programs, incentives, subsidies and government invasion of privacy can be stripped away. It's possible. But people will have to wake up and vote out folks and vote in some new folks.

Either that or we truly will have a Revolution on our hands.

And THAT will be something to see.

Luke, I can see that you passionately believe government is bad. I disagree. Poorly managed government is bad. We can agree that government that tromps on civil liberties is bad. But the government is us. It is ours. It is not some foreign enemy.

You may disagree, but the majority of folks here like what GOOD government can provide for a city: good planning, nice parks, infrastructure, public transit, etc. I am not rich enough to buy all these things myself, and I would rather not wait to be bestowed such things by rich guys.

We can vote to have our government provide services we want, in a smart, efficient, fiscally responsible manner. This does not necessarily equate with a loss of freedoms.

I'm a big fan of freedom myself, but we live in a nation of laws, as well. Finding the right balance between safety and security and economic opportunity and personal freedom is what we all seek, although we may not all agree on the same ratios of each.

While the state and local government hasn't encroached as much, the federal government is where I have real issues.

:ot:

Not sure what sports arenas have to do with the building at 10th and Broadway, but I personally think the best and highest use would be retail, and as much as I am for local vs. chains, I think a national chain such as Urban Outfitters or H&M would do Automobile Alley, all of downtown, and our city very well. This building is perfect size, location and look for either one of these stores that draw people from quite a distance. They could even have residential lofts on the top floor or two, as the retailers would only need the first 2 floors. I think a large retailer such as these would do wonders to kick off a massive retail explosion of Automobile Alley as well as retail downtown period!

Agree w/Metro; however, these "A" store retailers aren't going to just wake up one day and call a property owner on Automobile Alley and sign a lease. These property owners need to get aggressive with other retailers in the area/state. They need to have the same attitude that a developer would have...recruit solid businesses instead of waiting on the phone to ring.

Exactly tuck, good addition to my original statement. I fully agree these developers need to learn a word I call PROACTIVE.

The renovation work looks pretty good. While I would love to see retail or residential, considering it is an abandoned building, I would say it's a step in the right direction.

WSU, it's part of the MidTown Renaissance. It was slated for renovation last year, when Banta was at the helm, then as you know they had internal probs and Banta left the group, and the economy went south. Now that Clagg and Howard have revamped things up again, the MidTown properties are back under renovation. They are pouring a parking lot for Hadden Hall as we speak and prep work has begun for a new parking lot at the old Hotel Marion, as well as the buildings on Francis between NW 11th and 12th are under renovation at this very moment. Just glad to see MidTown work back on track.

MidTown Renaissance is ramping up developement of several of their properties that have always been in redevlopment for housing. So several of those properties should now be completed within the coming months.

WSU, it's part of the MidTown Renaissance. It was slated for renovation last year, when Banta was at the helm, then as you know they had internal probs and Banta left the group, and the economy went south. Now that Clagg and Howard have revamped things up again, the MidTown properties are back under renovation. They are pouring a parking lot for Hadden Hall as we speak and prep work has begun for a new parking lot at the old Hotel Marion, as well as the buildings on Francis between NW 11th and 12th are under renovation at this very moment. Just glad to see MidTown work back on track.

Thanks, Metro. I'm pretty well in tune with what's going on over there.