I hate to make a pessimistic post, but I've been to the canal several times this spring, and I'm extremely disappointed. It's been 10 years now since the canal opened, and it still looks the same as it did when it opened, in fact maybe worse. There are still buildings that are boarded up and have mounds of dirt sitting out in front of them. The area under Zios looks absolutely horrible. The basement of the Oklahoma Hardware building looks like a bomb shell hit it. Chelinos has broken down furniture located on their canal level. The big dragon out in front of the dungeon ride looks cheesy and circus-like, and the whole concept doesn't really fit in with what I picture as a nice upscale outdoor retail and restaurant district.

I had initially hoped that the canal would've become an open air retail and restaurant center similar to The Grove in LA, Branson Landing, The Legends in Kansas City, or other similar outdoor lifestyle centers. Instead, greedy building owners have sat on their properties at our expense (we paid for the canal). I'm extremely disappointed by the way the canal has turned out, and I'm afraid that many others in this city may be starting to feel the same way. I haven't hear of any new announcements of anything exciting coming to Bricktown lately. It seems like the momentum in Bricktown is coming to a screaching hault. If there's one thing I wish the city would've done, it's that they would've bought up all of the buildings along the canal before the canal was built, and leased out the space themselves, or sold all of the space to a major developer to develop a lifestyle center within them.

Also, the parks dept. isn't doing the greatest job taking care of the landscaping on the canal. There are several trees that have been cut down and the stumps left, there are very few flowers, etc.

Lower Bricktown is a little better (did I say that?????), but I'm still annoyed by the sea of parking along the canal, and the empty lot next to Toby Keiths.

I think if we don't do something to alter the course of Bricktown, it will end up the same way as the West End in Dallas.

I can't argue with anything you said.

Although, we have fewer alternatives to Bricktown than Dallas does to the West End.

Yeah. I wish I could disagree.
Bricktown still has a lot of potential but something would have to be done about the owners that are just sitting on their property. High density residential development is sorely needed.

i agree, bricktown could have been great.. greed is the downfall, i still have hopes for it though, but it does need some new life...

Patrick, the area that you speak of below Zio’s and the building next door are going to be renovated by Charles Harding and John Shelton. The renovations will transform that area and will include an underground parking garage holding close to 400 spaces and transforming the huge building on the SE corner into housing. The rest will retail. That basically leaves the area across the canal under Murphy’s piano lounge to be renovated to make the whole are nicer and more complete.

I think that Chelinos need to take a little more pride and have a little nicer furniture that would be easy to store at night when closed so it won't get stolen.

I do agree that greedy propery owners have stunted the growth of Bricktown. I'm not ready to throw in the towl on Bricktown yet, though. I think it was unfortunate that the arrival of the Thunder coincided with the downturn in the economy. I think that when the economy rebounds we will see a growth in Bricktown due to the increase in visitors during the winter months.

I've been pretty harsh in my coverage on Bricktown in recent weeks, so I think I can sustain my credibility as an objective reporter if I answer this.
Is Bricktown going at a pace many would like? Probably not. But to say it's losing momentum, well, in this economy, it's difficult to back that up.
Consider:
- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly and Michael Murphey's Dueling Pianos (Murphey's is open and is getting very good reviews).
- The Hampton Inn just opened and is staying close to full on a regular basis.
- The Banjo Museum is set to open this fall, and construction is almost done on the Candy Factory.
- Renovations underway on the Zio's building and the one immediately west.
- Two more deals coming I can't tell you about.

Your other criticisms (landscaping, maintenance) are being discussed and may soon have new developments....

I've been pretty harsh in my coverage on Bricktown in recent weeks, so I think I can sustain my credibility as an objective reporter if I answer this.
Is Bricktown going at a pace many would like? Probably not. But to say it's losing momentum, well, in this economy, it's difficult to back that up.
Consider:
- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly and Michael Murphey's Dueling Pianos (Murphey's is open and is getting very good reviews).
- The Hampton Inn just opened and is staying close to full on a regular basis.
- The Banjo Museum is set to open this fall, and construction is almost done on the Candy Factory.
- Renovations underway on the Zio's building and the one immediately west.
- Two more deals coming I can't tell you about.

Your other criticisms (landscaping, maintenance) are being discussed and may soon have new developments....

how long do we have to wait before u can talk?

working it

awesome thanks

- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly....


Coyote Ugly, sophisticated?

Really?

Midtown is much more appealing to me, but probably because I seek out interesting places where I can converse with friends and engage other people. Its restaurants, galleries and shops appeal to me more than Bricktown's ingress/egress challenges, paid parking, crowds, drunks and noise.

Coyote Ugly, sophisticated?

Really?

Ok wiseguy, "sophisticated" in terms of investment, promotion and name. Obviously, a bunch of drunk guys drooling at dancing female bartenders and getting sprayed with a hose everytime they ask for water is probably not your's or my definition of fine dining or a night at the art museum.
:doh:

Coyote Ugly, sophisticated?

Really?

Sophisticated business people.....

i agree bricktown could have been a drawn for families and for business people but all what i see is exactly the opposite

Don't forget the School of Rock is coming as well.

I would expect another flurry of activity once the economy stabilizes and money starts flowing more freely for construction loans.

Perhaps a Dollar General, Family Dollar or a pawn shop could locate in some of the empty spaces, if we are lucky maybe all three can come in.. It would bring an air of sophistication to the area don't you think? If we loose the focus and momentum and let somewhat undesirable business's (as in not right business fit) and stray away from original direction it could soon be reality, but that is my take and it really doesn't hold much water.

Ok wiseguy, "sophisticated" in terms of investment, promotion and name. Obviously, a bunch of drunk guys drooling at dancing female bartenders and getting sprayed with a hose everytime they ask for water is probably not your's or my definition of fine dining or a night at the art museum.
:doh:
What's not sophisticated about what you said? :dizzy: Seems pretty sophisticated to me! :tiphat:

I understand what Patrick is saying but I disagree. I believe that a great number of people had an unrealistic expectation as to what BT would become. I'd argue that it hasn't fallen short but instead it simply has become what Americans desire in an ENTERTAINMENT district. The people who visit and complain about a lack of shopping options are doing just that....visiting. One solitary store won't make it in BT, save it's tourist oriented. No matter what the store. Not Nordstroms, not Urban Outfitters, not C&B. Online shopping has changed the retail industry including the high end market. No critical mass of demo appropriate residents, no store. Doesn't make sense. Has nothing to do with OKC, it's just the way it is. Only the absolute biggest and oldest of major downtown areas enjoy this paradigm.

I think that Bricktown does a kick ass job of being what it is. It's an entertainment district. Neither the motif nor the "sporty" or laid back theme of the district warrants high end or even mid-range retail. It's a place to eat and party and I think that's fine. I believe that the city leadership understands this and that's why we see proposed retail development CLUSTERS in the Core to Shore presentations. Bricktown isn't going to be our premier party and entertainment district. It IS our party and entertainment district. I think that we need to accept it for what it is and be proud of it. Major cities have multiple districts surrounding their core that provide a different slew of amenities. I think we're fortunate that ours are all developing alongside each other. Let's not try and force Bricktown to be something it's not. We've already seen what that looks like. Anyone need a minnow bucket?

I understand what Patrick is saying but I disagree. I believe that a great number of people had an unrealistic expectation as to what BT would become. I'd argue that it hasn't fallen short but instead it simply has become what Americans desire in an ENTERTAINMENT district. The people who visit and complain about a lack of shopping options are doing just that....visiting. One solitary store won't make it in BT, save it's tourist oriented. No matter what the store. Not Nordstroms, not Urban Outfitters, not C&B. Online shopping has changed the retail industry including the high end market. No critical mass of demo appropriate residents, no store. Doesn't make sense. Has nothing to do with OKC, it's just the way it is. Only the absolute biggest and oldest of major downtown areas enjoy this paradigm.

I think that Bricktown does a kick ass job of being what it is. It's an entertainment district. Neither the motif nor the "sporty" or laid back theme of the district warrants high end or even mid-range retail. It's a place to eat and party and I think that's fine. I believe that the city leadership understands this and that's why we see proposed retail development CLUSTERS in the Core to Shore presentations. Bricktown isn't going to be our premier party and entertainment district. It IS our party and entertainment district. I think that we need to accept it for what it is and be proud of it. Major cities have multiple districts surrounding their core that provide a different slew of amenities. I think we're fortunate that ours are all developing alongside each other. Let's not try and force Bricktown to be something it's not. We've already seen what that looks like. Anyone need a minnow bucket?

Indeed, but that being said, we shouldn't have relaxed expectations for Bricktown. The greatest places in the country didn't get by on the easy train, nor should Bricktown. No property owner in any district of Oklahoma City has any business being such a property owner if they insist on being a nuisance.

Bricktown today is where it should have been in 2003. And Bricktown in 2012 will be where we want it now. What's to happen to the entertainment district once the old Crosstown Bridge ceases to exist? Moreover, shall we continue to allow the Steelyard area to mingle with Bricktown, or should we take a more aggressive stance?

There is nothing wrong with giving Bricktown credit for its current success. I booked a room at the Residence next month and look forward to my stay. However, it would be a big mistake to look around and agree with one's self that what Bricktown currently offers is "good enough for now."

Competition must never rest. Do not allow it to do so.

I agree with that. However, I don't agree that the district should be forced to be an amalgamation of uses that are not harmonious. I'm not suggesting that BT take an easy route or that we not be ambitious about it's development. The point is that we shouldn't take a small town approach and just get whatever we can as fast as we can.

It seems to me that some people expect BT to be a club-oriented, high-end retail, restaurant laden, high-end residential, mid-range residential, tackle shop bearing utopia that also sports an office supply store. It can't and shouldn't be everything. Some aspects of these attributes will intermingle, but not all and not forced. The Hill at Bricktown was forced, the bait shop was forced and a couple of other things were forced. As much as we like to blame the owners who are holding onto property, we can't act like retailers are beating the door down to get in. They are not, and that's okay. This isn't Lawton. We're big enough to have multiple districts with distinct identities.

Last time we were down there to show the place off to my mom from out of town, There were a couple of drunk girls and dudes walking (stumbling) down the street shouting cuss words at someone up above on one of the balcony's, and Loud music pumping from some balcony club.

I still predict Bricktown will turn into the Historic section in downtown Orlando FL.

historic Church Street section in downtown Orlando (http://www.churchstreetbars.com/)

Loved it when I went there 10+ years ago, But would not be a place I would be much interested in now with kids.

Steve,

Nice comments, but "sophisticated entertainment venues?" On what planet?

Steve,

Nice comments, but "sophisticated entertainment venues?" On what planet?

Blame Doug. He assured me Coyote Ugly is a sophisticated place for fine wine, merryment, musical performance and dance. I simply took his word for it.:beaten_fi

Two semi-random questions -

Anyone else get the sense Doug may have already arranged a lifetime reservation for a CU barstool space?

Will Trammel call the dance line the Boomerettes?

Whatever is wrong with Bricktown would anyone like to see it like it was 25 years ago?

doubtful, though the aspects complained of haven't seen much improvement, if any, in that timeframe.

Of course, a lot of the dead just laying there space on the canal was underground 25 years ago. Hmm, that made it less of an eyesore though.

tough call all in all.

I think the answer to the Bricktown woes is MAPS 3, without it we will drift without direction and momentum. We can talk all day about Core to Shore, but without the penny sales tax the dream won't be realized.

City leaders have trusted its citizens to do the right thing and vote yes on its initiatives from MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and the Ford Center renovation. Give us the chance to vote YES on MAPS 3! Don't wait until 2012, let's get a plan together and vote yes by 2010.

Haven't been paying much attention. Dinna realize BT upgrades are a part of Maps 3

Amusment park or neighborhood. It's simple.

You will be voting on a MAPS 3 in December of this year, 2009. Not in 2010 or 2012. And to clarify, the only things we KNOW will be in MAPS 3 are Convention Center, Central Park, and some form of transit, Mick mentioned there were several other items of consideration. I guaranteeeeee you that the State Fair Park folks are lobbying hard to get their $79 convention hall in there as well.

$79 convention hall in there as well.

Well, we should be able to spring for that. LOL. Just kidding. I know what you meant

Well, we should be able to spring for that. LOL. Just kidding. I know what you meant

Hey, with donated materials and volunteers, I'm sure that can be arranged. $79 will pay for the Coming Soon sign. ;)

I guaranteeeeee you that the State Fair Park folks are lobbying hard to get their $79 convention hall in there as well.

Can't they use their own $79 for a convention hall? I didn't realize the economy dropped prices of materials that low!

:omg:

I bet the Devon Tower will only be a few hundreds!

Oops, as you can guess, I meant $79 million.

A couple of quick notes on the canal, as someone who is down here every day:

The City of Oklahoma City Parks and Recreation Department is currently working on the most comprehensive tune-up of the canal area there has been in the past decade. For about the past two weeks contractors have been working diligently on a number of items, including a virtual reconstruction of the water feature (pool) next to the Water Taxi loading area (replacing cracked concrete walls), reconstruction/replacement of some of the paver-based sidewalks, with new edging designed to keep the pavers from coming loose, and fresh paint for most of the metal structures associated with the north canal (elevator enclosures, chair lifts, railings, bollards).

What you cannot see is that the City also put quite a bit of money and effort into lots of new electrical service along the north canal in anticipation of much larger/more sophisticated lighting displays for the holidays and other times in the future. The Bricktown Association is currently working on funding solutions for these endeavors.

Regarding the aforementioned "stumps," they are very recent casualties of the windstorm we had about a week ago. While Parks would probably admit that they let the paver/paint situation go a little longer than anyone would like, if there is one thing Parks is very conscientious about, it is the removal/replacement of damaged trees. I have seen it done dozens of times over the past decade. I have no doubt that these recent losses will be replaced soon.

Additionally, property owners downtown wide are currently working on the next business improvement district (BID) funding vehicle, and I can tell you firsthand that it has ignited a tremendous amount of healthy discussion regarding the canal and its maintenance. Expect to see a real focus on beautification and development of the canal in coming months and years.

Secondly, as one of the few retailers in Bricktown, and the ONLY Bricktown retailer on the canal, I'd like to address the remarks about "greedy property owners." First, let me say that I am NOT a property owner; the businesses I operate of course RENT from a property owner. Also, let me preface this by saying that there is nothing that would make our businesses thrive more than a throng of other retailers down here. I desperately want to see it happen, and believe it will with some of the various movements afoot including studies, Chamber intitiatives, and Bricktown Association efforts.

Speaking as someone who knows most of them, the characterization of Bricktown property owners as some sort of faceless, evil, greedy group is dead wrong. Perhaps there was a time when overt avarice played a role in keeping good projects out of Bricktown, but those days are long gone. I think it is a simplistic stereotype that misses the mark.

In my opinion the biggest fault has been, perhaps, a lack of imagination, or an unwillingness to take risk (a surprising attribute for people who might otherwise be considered mavericks). I think this has been combined with one characteristic most of them share: unbridled optimism for the district, even in the face of some discouraging results. The only problem with this is that it maybe causes them to hold onto dreams of "the big one," when perhaps they should be focusing on realistic results.

Are some of them unsure how to proceed? Perhaps.

What I mean is that (most) property owners have been unwilling to develop their buildings themselves (perhaps lacking a vision for what it should be), and want to wait (and wait, and wait...) for a good project to drive the renovation. I think most of the ones that have been in it for years are as surprised as you or me that the "right projects" haven't landed at their feet. What is the "right project?" Well, in their minds it is probably one anchor tenant for their building that will either drive development of the rest, or even develop the entire floorplate itself. The problem is that in Bricktown and especially along the canal, 6,000 or 10,000 square foot tenants have typically meant large restaurants, clubs, or offices. Which is exactly what we ended up with, organically.

I think that most in Bricktown now believe we have neared a saturation to some extent in most of those areas, and I hope and believe that will drive some change.

The problem with luring retail has been not greed, in my opinion, but an unwillingness to subdivide on spec and offer smaller spaces. The canal probably doesn't lend itself to Crate and Barrel or Urban Outfitters, but a dozen or so shops like my own Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (sorry, that's not meant to be self-serving) or the Painted Door Gallery, closely clustered, would thrive I think. I expect that day will come.

Anyway, the problem is a complex one, and can't be boiled down to "greed." I think it is unfair and inaccurate to paint all Bricktown Property owners with a "greedy" brush. Be patient and wait for a few of the initiatives now being pushed by the Bricktown Association play out. I also believe some of the results from the forthcoming Bricktown land use and downtown retail studies will be particularly helpful, creating a sort of master plan for the district, for the first time ever. Stay tuned.

I'm glad to hear that we will vote on MAPS 3 by the end of this year. That's great news!

Metro says it's going to happen that way. But he has no special information backing that up - it's speculation and I'm hearing conflicting reports.

The problem with luring retail has been not greed, in my opinion, but an unwillingness to subdivide on spec and offer smaller spaces. The canal probably doesn't lend itself to Crate and Barrel or Urban Outfitters, but a dozen or so shops like my own Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (sorry, that's not meant to be self-serving) or the Painted Door Gallery, closely clustered, would thrive I think. I expect that day will come.

Yes, agree whole-heartedly 100%. The costs are too high with the massive spaces that are in Bricktown. It would be much more likely that a business could survive if the property owners would just sub-divide their spaces! Make smaller spaces!

The Grove in LA is a really nice center.

Urbanized,

First of all: Great post! You are perhaps right that "greed" is an oversimplification. That said, I think there have been clear examples of that in the past.

I believe what people are upset about is the ridiculously high rents that have been speculated up by a handful of property owners. The first wave of owners -- including two former mayors -- had a massive infusion of publicly financed largesse drop in their laps. But they have done precious little to make the area happen.

The development concepts have been amateurish, but not in the "organic" sense someone may find on, say, Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley or Guadalupe in Austin.

Bad ideas, over and over again, and thousands of square feet of "For Lease" space, and the bad ideas continue to be recycled by a new generation of unimaginative, to use your polite term, developers.

It's amateur hour down there and the public has put in hundreds of millions -- even financing an upscale bait and tackle shop -- to kick start it.

It's not a total failure, but I would be interested to hear about some of these initiatives you speak of.

"The first wave of owners -- including two former mayors -- had a massive infusion of publicly financed largesse drop in their laps. But they have done precious little to make the area happen."

Where in the world are you getting this information from? Name names and addresses...

I don't recall any mayors, current or former, having personal investments in Bricktown. I definitely don't disagree that speculators drove up prices in the district. I will say, however, that the rents might not be as exhorbitant as you might think. Most of what I have seen over the past few years has been very similar to what is being asked for downtown office space in the core, and is far below what is being asked for space in quality malls. I really think the "high rent" part is overstated.

Now, could owners bow to the seasonality of the district and create more flexible lease structures that were high in the spring/summer/fall and low to non-existent in the winter? Absolutely. The number one problem I have seen with operators who come down here is a misunderstanding of the severe seasonality of what amounts to an outdoor mall, heavy with tourist and event traffic. They try to apply lessons they learned on Memorial or I-240 or NW Expressway to Bricktown, and it simply doesn't work.

Over and over again, in my opinion, people who are somewhat successful elswhere visit here on a slammed Saturday in May, June or July, assume what they are doing in Tulsa or wherever will translate without alteration, assume that they will all but print money here, get plans in place, open around November, and fall flat on their faces.

I think Bricktown requires a more determined, adaptive, resourceful operator than is required to succeed in most places. However, if you can get in sync with the seasonality and event-heavy business available, and offer the crowds what they are looking for, rather than what you think they SHOULD be looking for, the rewards can be fantastic.

Patrick, the area that you speak of below Zio’s and the building next door are going to be renovated by Charles Harding and John Shelton. The renovations will transform that area and will include an underground parking garage holding close to 400 spaces and transforming the huge building on the SE corner into housing. The rest will retail. That basically leaves the area across the canal under Murphy’s piano lounge to be renovated to make the whole are nicer and more complete.

Yes, I remember the announcement that was made about that development, but that announcement was made almost 2 years ago and still nothing has been done. I'm starting to see a pattern now of people buying up Bricktown properties and announcing grand plans, but later the plans being swept under the carpet and nothing being done.

And, unfortunately, most of the space on the canal is still empty.

And no offense to the owner of the Bricktown Dungeon Ride, but I just think it's a laughing eyesore on the canal. A nice restaurant with outdoor seating on the patio would fit better, I think, instead of a bid blow up dragon.


I think that Chelinos need to take a little more pride and have a little nicer furniture that would be easy to store at night when closed so it won't get stolen.

Chelinos needs to use their canal level for seating and not as a waste dump for broken furniture and trash.

I really really really hate to be pessimistic about Bricktown, because I do like Bricktown. But, I'm just really starting to wonder if Bricktown will ever be all that I envision it could be.

Patrick, look closer.... there's work going on in both buildings as we speak. Is the whole project being launched? No. The underground parking and canal build-out are on hold due to the economy. But the buildings are being renovated - Timberlake Construction is on site.

I've been pretty harsh in my coverage on Bricktown in recent weeks, so I think I can sustain my credibility as an objective reporter if I answer this.
Is Bricktown going at a pace many would like? Probably not. But to say it's losing momentum, well, in this economy, it's difficult to back that up.
Consider:
- Two sophisticated entertainment venues are opening up along the canal - Coyote Ugly and Michael Murphey's Dueling Pianos (Murphey's is open and is getting very good reviews).
- The Hampton Inn just opened and is staying close to full on a regular basis.
- The Banjo Museum is set to open this fall, and construction is almost done on the Candy Factory.
- Renovations underway on the Zio's building and the one immediately west.
- Two more deals coming I can't tell you about.

Your other criticisms (landscaping, maintenance) are being discussed and may soon have new developments....

A lot of people I think are just getting a little impatient, myself included. I mean, 10 years is a long time. And, we haven't been in a recession for the majority of that time.

I'm just really getting disappointed with the disappointments. I mean, how many proposals have we had for the empty lot on the North canal now? We had grand plans for a grand hotel. Then we had Cotton Gin. Both times the owner have decided to "sell out" instead. Then there's other failed promises in Bricktown, like The Factory, The Steelyard, Laughing Fish Gift Shop, Dick Clark's Bandstand Grill, Sega Gameworks, I could go on and on.

I really hope Bricktown succeeds, but I'm getting a little impatient now after 10 years.

For the first time ever, I went to San Antonio last summer, and I must say their canal is downright awesome. Goes from a mall, to a lot of restaurants, and small retail shops, and the atmosphere behind it is downright incredible.

Don't get me wrong, the one we have here in Bricktown looks nice, but at the end of the day, will it ever become the size of some bigger ones?

I mean it looks like Bricktown has so little to work with in terms of size, so I can't see the canal being too big, though I would love for it to become just as big, or bigger than San Antonio's canal.

The canal in San An had lots of trees, adding to the atmosphere, and it almost had an enclosed feel to it, but that wasn't bad by a long shot.

I just hope they can expand this canal in time, or make it go to the Oklahoma river, where hopefully a huge nightlife will spawn along the river.

Long walkways, retail, restaurants, and boating to take you along the river and to certain hotspots.

EDIT: Oh, and I would also hope they get rid of all those industrial looking buildings near the rock climbing place, and south of I-40 in downtown... Beef those areas up and make it a part of bricktown. Heck, extend the canal into that area.

Whatever is wrong with Bricktown would anyone like to see it like it was 25 years ago?

If you want to see what happens to an entertainment district when it loses momentum, just look at the West End.

I think the answer to the Bricktown woes is MAPS 3, without it we will drift without direction and momentum. We can talk all day about Core to Shore, but without the penny sales tax the dream won't be realized.

City leaders have trusted its citizens to do the right thing and vote yes on its initiatives from MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and the Ford Center renovation. Give us the chance to vote YES on MAPS 3! Don't wait until 2012, let's get a plan together and vote yes by 2010.

I concur completely. :congrats:

the characterization of Bricktown property owners as some sort of faceless, evil, greedy group is dead wrong. Perhaps there was a time when overt avarice played a role in keeping good projects out of Bricktown, but those days are long gone. I think it is a simplistic stereotype that misses the mark.

I agree that not all of the Bricktown property owners are greedy and evil. But, you have to admit, that there have been several investors that have purchased properties, sat on their properties, and then sold them for profit, with me questioning whether their intent was really to develop the properties to begin with.

And, take the Oklahoma Hardware Building for example......it wouldn't take a lot to remove mounds of construction dirt out in front of the basement and landscape the area until they find a tenant. That's called having pride in the property you own.

Also, some of the Bricktown property owners have absolutely no experience leasing out retail space, as evidence by your comment that they won't divide larger spaces. Maybe we'd be better getting the city involved and getting a large retail management company like Simon Property Group or Urban Retail Inc. in to buy up all of the properties to lease out.

And, I could see Bricktown being a perfect fit for an Urban Outfitters.

I don't recall any mayors, current or former, having personal investments in Bricktown.
Actually, Humphreys used to be a part owner of the Bricktown Parking garage.


Now, could owners bow to the seasonality of the district and create more flexible lease structures that were high in the spring/summer/fall and low to non-existent in the winter? Absolutely. The number one problem I have seen with operators who come down here is a misunderstanding of the severe seasonality of what amounts to an outdoor mall, heavy with tourist and event traffic. They try to apply lessons they learned on Memorial or I-240 or NW Expressway to Bricktown, and it simply doesn't work.

I agree with most of that. But, seasonality doesn't seem to affect other outdoor lifestyle centers like The Legends in Kansas City, KS, The Plaza in Kansas City, MO, Branson Landing, Utica Square, etc.


I think Bricktown requires a more determined, adaptive, resourceful operator than is required to succeed in most places. However, if you can get in sync with the seasonality and event-heavy business available, and offer the crowds what they are looking for, rather than what you think they SHOULD be looking for, the rewards can be fantastic.

I think we need to get a hold of someone experienced in managing one of the above lifestyle centers. The folks we have now obviously have no experience.

EDIT: Oh, and I would also hope they get rid of all those industrial looking buildings near the rock climbing place, and south of I-40 in downtown... Beef those areas up and make it a part of bricktown. Heck, extend the canal into that area.

Don't count on it. I think they just enlarged the place.

Just for fun, here are pics of The Grove in LA:

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/grove431.jpg

http://z.about.com/d/gaytravel/1/0/7/2/-/-/WeHo_TheGrove.jpg

http://images.goplanit.com/img/live/activity/b4/4a/93/08a409dcad1811f3ed2065a92b_xl.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i15/btjh86/6%205%2007%20grove/grove2.jpg

http://www.city-data.com/articles/images/img7761730.jpg

http://www.you-are-here.com/location/the_grove.jpg

http://www.publicartinla.com/sculptures/grove1.jpg

http://www.laobserved.com/images/grovenyt.jpg

http://www.dynapacrotating.com/UserFiles/Image/THE%20GROVE.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/barfownz/100_0765.jpg

Here are pictures of The Legends at Village West in Kansas City, KS:

http://www.travelks.com/images/admins/9/Image/Legends_Gallery.jpg

http://www.kansastravel.org/07kansaslegends02.JPG

http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/89934-600-0-2.jpg

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/10/fa/b9/fountains-at-the-legends.jpg

http://www.travellifehistory.com/sftrail/bonner/village-west/legends.jpg

http://www.visitkc.com/mediaroom/ImageLibrary/LegendsFountain_LR.jpg

http://www.thinkkc.com/MediaCenter/DownloadPhotos/Shopping/Legends%20Sign.jpg

Bricktown will never be that kool.

Again, I hate to put down Bricktown, but having been to a lot of these other places, anymore it's just hard to get excited about Bricktown. And this is coming from someone who really used to be enthusastic about Bricktown.

And finally, pics of Bricktown Landing....ummm...I mean Branson Landing:

http://vacationguestservices.com/images/landing2.jpg

http://www.bransonlanding.com/images/IMAGE_DOWNLOADS/HILTON@BRANSON_LANDING.JPG

http://www.bransoncourier.com/articlephotos/article_547_Branson_Landing_Opening-Crown_Promendade.jpg

http://www.joplinglobeonline.com/blogs/best_read_blog_branson/images/BRANSONLANDING_PROMENADE.jpg

http://www.zunimediagroup.com/images/branson_landing.jpg

http://images.kw.com/agent_photos/1/0/2/102003/library/photo_17.jpg

http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles29852.jpg

http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/4/5/9/9/0/ar119414591909954.jpg

http://www.tivolilighting.com/applications/Wehrenberg/Illum_Big.jpg

Those are simply outdoor malls...? Doesn't seem like that's what we're going for...

Don't count on it. I think they just enlarged the place.

I remember an article several months back saying the Mills were going to be moving in about five to six years.