OKC and Tulsa cracked the top 15 list. Here is a list where everyone ranked.

1. Portland, Maine
2. Bethesda, Maryland
3. Des Moines, Iowa
4. Stamford, Connecticut
5. Tulsa, Oklahoma
6. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
7. Cambridge, Massachusetts
8. Baltimore, Maryland
9. Worcester, Massachusetts
10. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
11. Denver, Colorado
12. Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
13. Madison, Wisconsin
14. Peabody, Massachusetts
15. Little Rock, Arkansas

America's Most Livable Cities - Forbes.com (http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/01/cities-city-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-livable-cities.html)

Way to go Tulsa and OKC!

It's interesting that 4 states took up 9 of the 15 spots.

It's interesting that 4 states took up 9 of the 15 spots.

No Texas though :ou2

All jokes aside, it's great we have two cities in the top.

If you look at the pictures of the most liveable cities, they've got a really attractive picture of OKC looking at the CBD from the Myriad Gardens. It certainly negates any dustbowl images people might have of OKC.

Just curious, how many times does Forbes put a list out like this? Seems like every other week we are talking about a new list that OKC made.

More great PR!

Increasingly, OKC is viewed as one of the up-and-coming-cities in the U.S., much like Charlotte and Austin were a couple of decades ago.


If you look at their criteria, you can see that Oklahoma's somewhat counter-cyclical economy has a lot to do with Tulsa & OKC being on that list:

"We eliminated areas with populations smaller than 500,000 and assigned points to the remaining metro regions across five data sets: Five-year income growth per household and cost of living from Moody's Economy.com, crime data and leisure index from Sperling's Best Places, and annual unemployment statistics from the Bureau of Labor Statistics."

Just curious, how many times does Forbes put a list out like this? Seems like every other week we are talking about a new list that OKC made.

My thoughts exactly. I love the positive publicity, but it makes me wonder who at Forbes is from Oklahoma?

Is OKC buying a lot of ads in Forbes or something?

From the outside looking in, when you count up the numbers and look at the assets/liabilities and without the complex that many have regarding feeling like you can't measure up - Oklahoma looks fabulous. No conspiracy here in touting Oklahoma - I know tons of people in this part of the cournty (east coast) who would dearly love to move to Oklahoma if they had a foot in the door. People around look positively wistful when I talk about moving back home to Oklahoma. Big, congested, high crime areas don't maintain their charm once you get past the novelty of cafes being open at 2:00 in the morning. Get to the point where you'd rather go to sleep before midnight and the notion of having a yard and sunny weather sounds pretty fabulous.

Good points, East Coast. However, can't we have cafes open past 2:00 in the morning as well? That seems to be something that would motivate people here.

OKC and Tulsa named “most livable” cities (http://blogs.journalrecord.com/persquarefoot/2009/04/06/okc-and-tulsa-named-most-livable-cities/)

Good points, East Coast. However, can't we have cafes open past 2:00 in the morning as well? That seems to be something that would motivate people here.

We have Denny's and IHOP and maybe Waffle House.

I noticed in today's Tulsa World edition in the editoral piece *Easy Street" regarding Tulsa's rating in Forbes magazine,that Tulsa was already bashing OKC. At the very end of the article, it stated that OKC was a crime ridden, uncultured place? These remarks are quite seething. Does envy play a role in this?

I noticed in today's Tulsa World edition in the editoral piece *Easy Street" regarding Tulsa's rating in Forbes magazine,that Tulsa was already bashing OKC. At the very end of the article, it stated that OKC was a crime ridden, uncultured place? These remarks are quite seething. Does envy play a role in this?

Especially when Tulsa, hands-down, destroys OKC in gang-related crime.

Post this for them:

rjvuP3xTvGU

I've definitely noticed many more shooting, murders & meth related stories in Tulsa.

But, who cares? I say focus on our city and the strides we have made and ignore them.

We keep an archive of these accolades here: Greater Oklahoma City Chamber - Newsroom - Oklahoma City Accolades (http://www.okcchamber.com/accolades)

Good points, East Coast. However, can't we have cafes open past 2:00 in the morning as well? That seems to be something that would motivate people here.

Oh sure, if you can get the farm boys to show up when they have a tractor they need to ride at sunup. :LolLolLol

The point is that for many, many people, the lack of that is not a big deal. For some, it is.

Let me also point out that places like DC and NYC are very, very transient. Young people are everywhere and they just love all the excitement. But they generally don't stay. In a matter a short number of years, they move on. Mattress companies and storage facilities are everywhere. It is frequently hard to find locals who were raised in the area who stay to raise their own kids. DC has its government workers and NYC has its business area but after a few years, most of the ones who stay are moving out if they have families. Without a wall street like base or the hub of the government, I am not sure we'd really want a work force that transient.

Good points, East Coast. However, can't we have cafes open past 2:00 in the morning as well? That seems to be something that would motivate people here.
As the saying goes, nothing good ever happens after 2:00am. :LolLolLol

"I am not sure we'd really want a work force that transient."
I can guarantee you don't want a population like that...it is very hard on schools especially. We are teachers here in the Orlando area and the fact that nobody has roots here either really hurts the school districts and cities in Central Florida. There is no investment (financial or otherwise) in the community because either people are retired and have already invested for a lifetime somwhere "up North" or they are just "using" Florida for the weather or the beach. No one is from here or even considers it home...a much-heard phrase from people even who have been here for years is "back home..." Florida is America's rental car...a red, sporty convertible rental car...everyone has a good time using it, but do they take care of it...nope...they just use it and move on. My wife and I have tried our best for the last 7 years to make Orlando home and invest in it to make it a better place. But, we have decided to move to the OKC metro in June and are really looking forward to putting down roots and investing in our community to make it a better place for all of us. From reading these forums for the past year, it really seems that most are interested and excited to do just that. You don't want OKC to become like NYC, DC, or even Orlando. Looking forward to living in one of America's Most Liveable Cities and helping it climb the ranks...without too much publicity of course...shhhhh.

[B] You don't want OKC to become like NYC, DC, or even Orlando. Looking forward to living in one of [I]America's Most Liveable Cities and helping it climb the ranks...without too much publicity of course...shhhhh.


Hahahha! Shhhh, indeed. I hear you loud and clear.

Are you moving back home or are you just moving to make a home?

I'm happy for you that you are making the jump - I bet you'll love it. Can't wait to get back home, myself.

Moving to make a new home...we know we'll love it.

What caused you to pick OKC?

Make sure you have good storm windows and your air conditioner is in good shape!

My thoughts exactly. I love the positive publicity, but it makes me wonder who at Forbes is from Oklahoma?

Who knows the connection, but I know Steve Forbes himself was at OSU not too long ago. Here's a video about it: YouTube - Inside OSU interview features Steve Forbes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMYd3q9L9pE&feature=channel)

Let's be real. NYC is perhaps the greatest city in the world, or at least in the top ten. It is a wonderful place. It's too expensive for average people to live in now, though, but the crime rate is low, the public transit is among the best anywhere, the entertainment is among the best in the world, there is a constant stream of activity in every sector, from finance, to literature, to film, to music, to fashion, to food, to art. This is something that every city, especially OKC, should envy. It is to be envied. Central Park is possibly the nicest urban setting in a large city in America. The pizza is the best. The stimulation one would receive is virtually unparalleled. I understand that East Coast Okie is feeling like a nice backyard BBQ in Edmond is to be coveted, but not all of us who live in OKC and WANT to stay here feel that way. I see no danger in OKC becoming LA, or even Dallas, but let's face it, we need more of what these major cities offer if we are to become a major city. I"m not ashamed to admit it. That's why I spend time on this message forum.

Let's be real. NYC is perhaps the greatest city in the world, or at least in the top ten. It is a wonderful place. It's too expensive for average people to live in now, though, but the crime rate is low, the public transit is among the best anywhere, the entertainment is among the best in the world, there is a constant stream of activity in every sector, from finance, to literature, to film, to music, to fashion, to food, to art. This is something that every city, especially OKC, should envy. It is to be envied. Central Park is possibly the nicest urban setting in a large city in America. The pizza is the best. The stimulation one would receive is virtually unparalleled. I understand that East Coast Okie is feeling like a nice backyard BBQ in Edmond is to be coveted, but not all of us who live in OKC and WANT to stay here feel that way. I see no danger in OKC becoming LA, or even Dallas, but let's face it, we need more of what these major cities offer if we are to become a major city. I"m not ashamed to admit it. That's why I spend time on this message forum.

Well said, my friend.

As a native Okie living in New York City, I can only say AMEN.

No question that NYC is a great city and many people love living there. But OKC is not competing with NYC. It offers a different - and wonderful - experience. OKC will never be just like NYC. NYC gets its energy from a different place and is structured in a completely different way that has not been duplicated elsewhere and couldn't be.

I'd say the same thing to a New Yorker who was complaining that he or she didn't have the same things OKC has to offer. You AREN"T going to get backyard barbecues, yards and suburb living in NYC. If that is what you want, you need to go to where they are part of the culture. You can add in some attributes but you can't replicate NYC in OKC or vice versa. There are just too many factors that contribute to each environment - space, density, public transit, cheap land, income is a huge difference. My kids live in NYC - love it - but as you say, they have to make a ton of money to afford it. The benefits don't come cheap unless you want to be part of the working class living in 400 square foot apartments, having to struggle up stairs with your arms full of bags, stepping over urine and feces in the street. I love to visit but the filth is disgusting if you are used to something else.

I love to visit but the filth is disgusting if you are used to something else.

New York is one of the cleanest cities in the US. Stepping over filth and feces? What neighborhood are you talking about? South Bronx?

Of course OKC is not NYC, but we can darn sure improve our urban options here without changing what is nice about living here. Some of us would like a little more NYC here. Just a little.

New York is one of the cleanest cities in the US. Stepping over filth and feces? What neighborhood are you talking about? South Bronx?

Of course OKC is not NYC, but we can darn sure improve our urban options here without changing what is nice about living here. Some of us would like a little more NYC here. Just a little.

Are you kidding? South of Soho to Midtown in many of the residential neighborhoods - even the very nice ones. Not everyone cleans up after their dogs and the garbage is nasty all the time. Well - it is frequently piled up but it is like walking through a dump several days a week.

I'm not arguing against bringing some of the perks to OKC - don't get me wrong. And for what it is worth, I have seen tons of movement in bringing a lot of that in over the past few decades.

We have Denny's and IHOP and maybe Waffle House.

You beat me to that one, MT.

Where in the East Coast do you live? You really seem to hate NYC. I lived there, visit there frequently, and only during a garbage strike do I recall the garbage piling up like you talk about it.

I noticed in today's Tulsa World edition in the editoral piece *Easy Street" regarding Tulsa's rating in Forbes magazine,that Tulsa was already bashing OKC. At the very end of the article, it stated that OKC was a crime ridden, uncultured place? These remarks are quite seething. Does envy play a role in this?

I can't believe the World would put such a comment in an official editorial. It's one thing for a TulsaNow forum member to post something like that, or maybe a column, but this is actually in the editorial.

Pretty ridiculous when just a few sentences before they were decrying dated facts and "unmeasurable" standards. Then they call us uncultured... LOL

Where in the East Coast do you live? You really seem to hate NYC. I lived there, visit there frequently, and only during a garbage strike do I recall the garbage piling up like you talk about it.

I think it is dirty - perhaps not anymore than any other city of that size but certainly more than smaller cities and more rural areas. For some of us, piled garbage, inhaling car fumes, dodging droves of people on the sidewalk just to get from one place to another, and listening to cars honking at all hours of the day and night is oppressive. Some of the reasons some of us simply don't like big cities. I'm hard wired for big sky, clean breezes and the long view. For people like me, being in a big city is like being locked in a trash bin. Certainly, it doesn't affect many people that way. There aren't enough museums or restaurants or events on the planet to make me relax in what seems like a cage, to me. Just the way I'm wired. I'm not alone.

But it is a fabulous city. Clearly, you haven't read all my posts - and there is no reason why you would have. I think NYC has an energy and a passion unmatched in other cities. I believe that only the people of NYC could have reacted as they did on 911. They were amazing. Do I think they are snooty about their city - oh, you bet. They have the type of arrogance that Texans have but that is okay. People should be proud of where they live. And I tend to really like New Yorkers. They are a special breed with a great deal of warmth and humor. But the things so many people crave that go with big cities include noise and people and congestion and things that - for people like me - are the very definition of hell.

I personally don't like big cities but that is a personal preference - it is not as if I think there are wonderful big cities but NYC isn't one of them.

I live outside DC. Compared to NYC, it is spotless - at least in the tourist sections and N.W. My kids and their friends always remark about that and it is no slam on the Big Apple. Did I mention that they love living there?

I can't believe the World would put such a comment in an official editorial. It's one thing for a TulsaNow forum member to post something like that, or maybe a column, but this is actually in the editorial.

Pretty ridiculous when just a few sentences before they were decrying dated facts and "unmeasurable" standards. Then they call us uncultured... LOL

You need to read the editorial, it was plainly tongue in cheek and sarcastic, some people just prefer to stir the pot, why do you think no link was provided?

Tulsa World: Easy Street (http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=61&articleid=20090407_61_A12_Anaeri410337)

I think it is dirty - perhaps not anymore than any other city of that size but certainly more than smaller cities and more rural areas. For some of us, piled garbage, inhaling car fumes, dodging droves of people on the sidewalk just to get from one place to another, and listening to cars honking at all hours of the day and night is oppressive. Some of the reasons some of us simply don't like big cities. I'm hard wired for big sky, clean breezes and the long view. For people like me, being in a big city is like being locked in a trash bin. Certainly, it doesn't affect many people that way. There aren't enough museums or restaurants or events on the planet to make me relax in what seems like a cage, to me. Just the way I'm wired. I'm not alone.

But it is a fabulous city. Clearly, you haven't read all my posts - and there is no reason why you would have. I think NYC has an energy and a passion unmatched in other cities. I believe that only the people of NYC could have reacted as they did on 911. They were amazing. Do I think they are snooty about their city - oh, you bet. They have the type of arrogance that Texans have but that is okay. People should be proud of where they live. And I tend to really like New Yorkers. They are a special breed with a great deal of warmth and humor. But the things so many people crave that go with big cities include noise and people and congestion and things that - for people like me - are the very definition of hell.

I personally don't like big cities but that is a personal preference - it is not as if I think there are wonderful big cities but NYC isn't one of them.

I live outside DC. Compared to NYC, it is spotless - at least in the tourist sections and N.W. My kids and their friends always remark about that and it is no slam on the Big Apple. Did I mention that they love living there?


Thank you! I totally get where you're coming from. I'm admittedly a little defensive about NYC because I heard all these terrible things about it growing up in Oklahoma. Then, when I went there and saw it for myself I found many of the comments about it off base. For example, that the people are rude. Like me you know this isn't true.

Thanks for the comments.

You need to read the editorial, it was plainly tongue in cheek and sarcastic, some people just prefer to stir the pot, why do you think no link was provided?

Tulsa World: Easy Street (http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=61&articleid=20090407_61_A12_Anaeri410337)

Hmm. Well it wasn't obvious to me that it was sarcastic.

Thank you! I totally get where you're coming from. I'm admittedly a little defensive about NYC because I heard all these terrible things about it growing up in Oklahoma. Then, when I went there and saw it for myself I found many of the comments about it off base. For example, that the people are rude. Like me you know this isn't true.

Thanks for the comments.

I have NEVER had them be rude to me. Even the swearing cabbies will look at you and laugh - it is all show. One got out of his cab and yelled at me once - "Ladiiiiiieeee!! PLEASE!! Don't make me have to run over you!!" Now, how can you get mad at someone who is obviously keeping his sense of humor with a dim witted tourist?

My son did instruct me to not talk to strangers in the elevators because it was considered weird.

Thank you! I totally get where you're coming from. I'm admittedly a little defensive about NYC because I heard all these terrible things about it growing up in Oklahoma. Then, when I went there and saw it for myself I found many of the comments about it off base. For example, that the people are rude. Like me you know this isn't true.

Thanks for the comments.

I didnt encounter any rude people in NYC... was pretty disappointed in the pizza though. Had it at two different places suggested by locals and it was horrific at both. I was also amazed at the mountains of garbage piled up all over the sidewalks in Manhattan. I was also surprised that there is apparently only one taxi company in NYC. Figured there would be countless.

Best pizza in NYC is at Grimaldi's in Brooklyn.

I can't remember the name, but the place that's on like every corner is pretty disgusting.

Joe's in Greenwich Village is great. For a sit-down, pizzeria-served-at-table experience, both Lombardi's and John's are excellent. There's more than enough amazing pizza in New York to make the biggest pizza snob happy. Another great pizza town is New Haven, CT.

jbrown,

The one that's on every corner has to be Ray's. And I agree.

Yeah Ray's. As I understand it, it's not really a chain it's just multiple restaurants using the same name and no one really cares enough to sue.

My kids like Lombardis and Artruros.

Not to moderate and not tryong to be short, but since when did this become and NYC thread?

You're right - probably best to get back. We were just bonding online.

So I've got to ask...........is there a top 10 WORST cities to live in list?



/I nominate St. Louis

Miami

I have found that every place has something special and unique to offer to the quality of life. I have lived in SoCal (born in LA), the PacNW (Portland), New England (NH), the Midwest (STL ironically enough and my favorite stop along the way), and now the Southeast (FL). I have loved each and every place for different reasons. For me, the Heartland is what suites me best, but to each his own. Although I am ready for a change, as I spend my last few months in Florida before I move to OKC, I am trying to remind myself of the following in order to keep my attitude in the right place..."The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side of the fence. Fences have nothing to do with it. The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing over fences, carry water with you and tend the grass wherever you may be." --Robert Fulghum from It Was on Fire When I Lay Down on It (1988)

I did read a list recently of America's "most miserable" cities. They had things like suicide rate, unemployment, crime and other factors. Unsuprisingly, Detroit rated highly. Somewhat surprisingly, Portland, mostly due to high unemployment, gloomy weather and suicides, was high on the list. St. Louis and New Orleans rated highly in that category as well.

I have found that every place has something special and unique to offer to the quality of life. I have lived in SoCal (born in LA), the PacNW (Portland), New England (NH), the Midwest (STL ironically enough and my favorite stop along the way), and now the Southeast (FL). I have loved each and every place for different reasons. For me, the Heartland is what suites me best, but to each his own. Although I am ready for a change, as I spend my last few months in Florida before I move to OKC, I am trying to remind myself of the following in order to keep my attitude in the right place..."The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side of the fence. Fences have nothing to do with it. The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing over fences, carry water with you and tend the grass wherever you may be." --Robert Fulghum from It Was on Fire When I Lay Down on It (1988)

Bravo! Couldn't agree more. Why waste time and energy hating or disliking a place if you've no choice but to live there. The corollary to that quote is the "Grow where you're planted" one.

The grass is not, in fact, always greener on the other side of the fence. Fences have nothing to do with it. The grass is greenest where it is watered. When crossing over fences, carry water with you and tend the grass wherever you may be." --Robert Fulghum from It Was on Fire When I Lay Down on It (1988)


Awesome attitude.

You're right - probably best to get back. We were just bonding online.

No sweat :) I totally understand

http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/06/most-miserable-cities-business-washington_0206_miserable_cities.html

I thought I had read that Stockton, CA was on the list of the Worst cities to live. I can attest to that just by driving through that town many times.