Tom Blanton really rubs me the wrong way. He's so focused on Memorial Rd. development and not very optomistic about downtown retail. Whatever. Glad he's not running the show downtown.

Again, that's my continued problem with Memrial Rd. development and urban sprawl. It's drawing away from interest in downtown. If the Memorial Rd. corridor didn't exist, we'd probably have PF Changs in Bricktown. Afterall, Bricktown was the 2nd choice, after Memorial Rd. For the comments Changs made in the recent year about our downtown restaurant market, I hope they fail in their current location. Sorry to be so blunt, but I'm just a downtown guy!

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"Strong growth foreseen for Memorial corridor
by Heidi R. Centrella
The Journal Record
1/14/2005



After more than 20 years in the making, businesses near and far are flooding the Memorial Road shopping stretch, creating the busiest retail district of the city and generating millions in revenues.
Approximately 3 million square feet of retail, restaurants and retail-related businesses make up the mile-and-a-half strip, generating annual sales revenues of roughly $800 million.

With recent openings such as Best Buy, Circuit City, PF Chang's China Bistro and Johnnie's Charcoal Express entering the area, it's no surprise even more businesses are under construction, including Bravo Cucina Italiana, Home Depot, Books-A-Million, Smokey Bones and Men's Wearhouse.

Real estate entrepreneur Tom Blanton said the building trend is far from over and credited factors such as strong demographics, higher household incomes, strong numbers from existing retailers and an excellent highway system bringing people from all parts of the metro area.

"It's the center of the growth and established neighborhoods in northwest Oklahoma City - the bulls-eye, if you will," Blanton said. "The word is out nationally with these retailers looking to expand that Quail Springs is a good area for strong sales."

Plans for the area have been on the books for more than 20 years, around the time Quail Springs Mall was built in the early '80s. But after the oil bust, everything came to a standstill in what is now considered the super regional retail location in Oklahoma City.

"Quail Springs was built out on a prairie, and the retail was supposed to follow," Blanton said. "Some did. But then the economic downturn of the mid-'80s came and Oklahoma City was off the radar screen, basically red-lined from retail."

In the early '90s, however, Memorial Road space around May and Pennsylvania started catching the eyes of both local and national retailers. It then evolved into the strong retail region it is known as today.

Blanton said because the Quail Springs area has experienced such rapid growth and success, it demands some of the highest rental rates and land prices in town. But this doesn't appear to discourage business owners.

"There are several other deals that are in the works that will bring additional retail and restaurants to the Quail Springs area," Blanton said. "Those announcements will be made sometime in 2005."

Matt Lokay has worked at various Best Buy stores for four years. He now is the general manager at the company's 2135 W. Memorial Road location, which, he said, is the best store he's worked in.

"It's a great location because of the amount of traffic this area pulls," Lokay said. "The sheer foot traffic we see in this store is incredible. We're busy all the time."

No one can answer which came first, the retail chicken or the residential egg to its north. But that begs the question: If they build it, will they come?

It is an issue the downtown area is struggling with today as it continues to feed off the MAPS-driven past 10 years.

While developers one by one have been adding their own element of luxury living to downtown Oklahoma City, retail growth still lags behind.

"Bricktown has made great strides with the Harkins theater and Bass Pro and the restaurants," Blanton said. "Can you look in a crystal ball and predict how much retail there will be? I don't know. I think there's a place, in due time, for downtown retail."

Blanton credited much of W. Memorial Road's retail success with the growth of west Edmond, Gaillardia and Quail Creek, the school system and office growth. But he also credited the city's roadways - the expansion of the Kilpatrick Turnpike, the four highways pumping in traffic, Broadway Extension and Lake Hefner Parkway.

Despite all the hullabaloo surrounding traffic problems in the area, Best Buy's Lokay said it hasn't been a problem with the store's four possible entrances.

Consumers continually flock to and support the northwest retail shopping mecca, Blanton said

"The city of Oklahoma City has done a good job without making any road improvements," Blanton said. "They are now paying attention to the situation at Quail Springs and, from my understanding, they are working on plans to improve the intersections to alleviate some of the congestion.

"The city has no choice," he said. "At some point in time they will have to make improvements to relieve some traffic pressure, because the people of Oklahoma City will keep coming."

yes its sad but downtown's day will come, that is an underserved area with all of the high income households. it will pay off for downtown in the long run, maybe with higher end stores

I really hope so. Maybe you're right though...Memorial Rd. is getting a lot of development right now, but it isn't upscale. It's just typical suburban style development. Maybe downtown will became breeding grounds for upscale development....something similar to SpringCreek Plaza in Edmond. I notice that Memorial Rd. hasn't been able to attract that kind of development yet.

I live just north of Memorial and having the shopping so nearby is extremely convenient for me. If I had to drive downtown for the places I can go here, I'd never go. Theres quite a large market in this area and I personally like seeing a lot of the things moving this way, although architecturally it leaves a lot to be desired. I think the city planners weren't thinking so much about the culture in the area as much as the $$$.

On a side note, It's somewhat disconcerting to hear that you wish PF Changs to fail, seeing as how you are moderating a site dedicated to the bettering of OKC - I imagined that this site is meant for OKC as a whole - not just downtown OKC. Otherwise, it should be called 'DowntownOKCtalk.com'. Blunt, meet blunt. :D

One question though, does Bricktown charge for parking in the evenings? If so, they should think about 'not' charging after 5pm or 6pm and free weekends. Several cities I've lived in did well downtown because the parking was free after a certain time. It may not be a large fee to park for the evening, but a little thing like that could be keeping an entire market sector from coming in for the evening.

I live sorta by Quail Springs, I think that, even though downtown growth would tickle my fancy best, this is the second best thing possible for Oklahoma City and it's metro, 1.2 million strong and growing rapidly.

As metro pointed out, the types of development are different. Memorial Rd. is being turned into more of a NW Expressway type development....in fact Memorial Rd. is often compared to NW Expressway in its earlier stages of development, only NW Expressway has much more traffic and covers more area. Both Memorial Rd. and NW Expressway have a lot of suburban style strip centers and low to middle-end stores like Old Navy, Wal-Mart, Ross, Home Depot, etc. etc.

I really hope that future downtown development focuses more on upscale establishments.

Memorial Rd. really on serves the far N. side and Edmond. Downtown will be able to attract people from all over the metro.

I think it's kind of like comparing Grapevine Mills mall to the Dallas Galleria. Sure, the Grapevine Mills mall may be the "in thing" but there's really nothing unique about it. It's just a large warehouse filled with typical outlet stores. I'd choose the Dallas Galleria with all of its upscale stores, architecture, and upscale hoel, over the Grapevine Mills Mall any day of the week. No comparison. The Dallas Galleria definitely serves young professionals and the creative class.

Too bad OKC doesn't have a galleria, and doesn't have a mills, lol.

yes we get the point you want a mills mall

and... the Oklahoma Galleria.

Agghhh, malls, mills or not, are a dying breed. I'm pinning my hopes on retail lifestyle center in the Flatiron, however.

Mills is building about 5 new outlet malls, mostly in the Great Lakes area.

I live just north of Memorial and having the shopping so nearby is extremely convenient for me. If I had to drive downtown for the places I can go here, I'd never go. Theres quite a large market in this area and I personally like seeing a lot of the things moving this way, although architecturally it leaves a lot to be desired. I think the city planners weren't thinking so much about the culture in the area as much as the $$$.

On a side note, It's somewhat disconcerting to hear that you wish PF Changs to fail, seeing as how you are moderating a site dedicated to the bettering of OKC - I imagined that this site is meant for OKC as a whole - not just downtown OKC. Otherwise, it should be called 'DowntownOKCtalk.com'. Blunt, meet blunt. :D

One question though, does Bricktown charge for parking in the evenings? If so, they should think about 'not' charging after 5pm or 6pm and free weekends. Several cities I've lived in did well downtown because the parking was free after a certain time. It may not be a large fee to park for the evening, but a little thing like that could be keeping an entire market sector from coming in for the evening.

I don't think our parking prices in Bricktown are out of line at all. If you want to compare to other cities, I think they're very reasonable. There's a club district in Dallas, I forget the name, but it seems like it's 4 miles (I think East) of downtown. I remember going there (vaguely) and paying around $18-$20 for some really bad parking.

As I recall, the area was absolutely packed -- lines outside of most clubs.

$6.00 really isn't that far out of line. I do think we need a few better venues though.

Where did you get 6$. I always pay $3 for good parking right in front of the Bourbon Street Cafe.

I'm pinning my hopes on some really nice development on the south side of downtown after the Crosstown realighment. Currently, the area is full of industrial buildings.

Midtowner, you are thinking about Deep Ellum and yes parking can easily cost $20 dollars in that club/bar area and the waits are ridiculous and most of the clubs arent much better

My point is that the parking fee structure is something they could look at. $6 may not be much, but it might be that one thing that is keeping some people from going.

Seattle has no parking fees after 6pm. None at all on Sundays.

I think it might be counterproductive to charge people to park when you are trying to get them to come spend money.

I don't think our parking prices in Bricktown are out of line at all. If you want to compare to other cities, I think they're very reasonable. There's a club district in Dallas, I forget the name, but it seems like it's 4 miles (I think East) of downtown. I remember going there (vaguely) and paying around $18-$20 for some really bad parking.

As I recall, the area was absolutely packed -- lines outside of most clubs.

$6.00 really isn't that far out of line. I do think we need a few better venues though.

I agree with you Midtowner. All along I've always wondered why people complain about the parking prices in our downtown. Every major downtown area charges for parking. Last time I was in San Antonio, parking right on the Riverwalk was $12. We payed $7, but it was quite a walk. But, venues do make a difference......$12 on the Riverwalk is probably a better deal than $6 on our canal. Still, I think our point is obvious.

They aren't any better .Bricktown s the South central's largest entertainment district, period. You can't compare it without hinting that nothing else will come close.

My point is that the parking fee structure is something they could look at. $6 may not be much, but it might be that one thing that is keeping some people from going.

Seattle has no parking fees after 6pm. None at all on Sundays.

I think it might be counterproductive to charge people to park when you are trying to get them to come spend money.

I think the parking system that Lower Bricktown will eventually use is fair. Eventually the merchants in Lower Bricktown will validate parking tickets in their lots, if you use their services.

This could expand to the entire Bricktown area.

They aren't any better .Bricktown s the South central's largest entertainment district, period. You can't compare it without hinting that nothing else will come close.

Bricktown doesn't even begin to compare to the San Antonio Riverwalk. The San Antonio Riverwalk has venues like Hard Rock, Planet Hollywood, a two level mall, tons of upscale hotels (a Hyatt!!!). Also, the San Antonio Riverwalk is 3 times the length of our canal. Maybe someday Bricktown will compare, but not anytime soon.

Doesn't Bricktown get just as many visitors as San Antonio's Riverwalk though?

I live just north of Memorial and having the shopping so nearby is extremely convenient for me. If I had to drive downtown for the places I can go here, I'd never go. Theres quite a large market in this area and I personally like seeing a lot of the things moving this way, although architecturally it leaves a lot to be desired. I think the city planners weren't thinking so much about the culture in the area as much as the $$$.

On a side note, It's somewhat disconcerting to hear that you wish PF Changs to fail, seeing as how you are moderating a site dedicated to the bettering of OKC - I imagined that this site is meant for OKC as a whole - not just downtown OKC. Otherwise, it should be called 'DowntownOKCtalk.com'. Blunt, meet blunt. :D


Oh, I was just exaggerating when I said I hope PF Changs fails. I'm just a little upset that they commented that downtown wasn't "upscale" enough. It isn't like Memorial and Penn is anymore upscale.....in fact, probably less so. The restaurants and stores on Memorial aren't upscale.

I am for the bettering of OKC, but at the same time, I don't necessarily think creating a traffic nightmare at one intersection due to poor planning is my idea of bettering OKC. Also, the development on Memorial Rd. isn't unique...it's just your run of the mill suburban development.

Just my $0.02.

I will be honest though....I do favor downtown and inner city development, so when I see urban sprawl taking away from the bettering of our downtown area, it's concerning to me. Memorial Rd. did hurt downtown in regards to PF Changs......downtown was second on their list after Memorial Rd.

They aren't any better .Bricktown s the South central's largest entertainment district, period. You can't compare it without hinting that nothing else will come close.
What defines an entertainment district? Seems like something like Six Flags would be larger - it's hard to imagine that OKC has the largest Entertainment district. New Orleans is pretty good sized, and entertaining :D

San Antone's River Walk, I believe, is not quite an entertainment district. The River Walk is too unique, they have string of restraunts, but really that is all. They have tons of hotels, murals and statues (we are just now getting our memorials) and even more, the River Walk goes through downtown San Antone, and the bricktown canal does not.

Where did you get 6$. I always pay $3 for good parking right in front of the Bourbon Street Cafe.

I the depends on the time of the day and what events are in town. Brewer alters his prices based on demand. Typically prices are $3 during the day, and $6 at night. They've been as much as $12-15 during concerts.

San Antone's River Walk, I believe, is not quite an entertainment district. The River Walk is too unique, they have string of restraunts, but really that is all. They have tons of hotels, murals and statues (we are just now getting our memorials) and even more, the River Walk goes through downtown San Antone, and the bricktown canal does not.

What do we have that the San Antonio Riverwalk does not have?

What defines an entertainment district? Seems like something like Six Flags would be larger - it's hard to imagine that OKC has the largest Entertainment district. New Orleans is pretty good sized, and entertaining :D


I agree Floating_adrift! The real "Bourbon Street" is quite an entertainment district. Although Bricktown is coming along, I really don't think it compares to Bourbon Street, yet!

Offices, hotels, you name it. Business besides entertainment.

Oh, I was just exaggerating when I said I hope PF Changs fails. I'm just a little upset that they commented that downtown wasn't "upscale" enough. It isn't like Memorial and Penn is anymore upscale.....in fact, probably less so. The restaurants and stores on Memorial aren't upscale.

I am for the bettering of OKC, but at the same time, I don't necessarily think creating a traffic nightmare at one intersection due to poor planning is my idea of bettering OKC. Also, the development on Memorial Rd. isn't unique...it's just your run of the mill suburban development.

Just my $0.02.

I will be honest though....I do favor downtown and inner city development, so when I see urban sprawl taking away from the bettering of our downtown area, it's concerning to me. Memorial Rd. did hurt downtown in regards to PF Changs......downtown was second on their list after Memorial Rd.

I think Bricktown could still support a PF Changs quite easily, even with the one on Memorial. What Bricktown could use to really pump up some interest is a Cheesecake Factory or maybe a Houston's.

I say a Cheesecake Factory is a great idea. The River Walk already has one.

Midtowner, you are thinking about Deep Ellum and yes parking can easily cost $20 dollars in that club/bar area and the waits are ridiculous and most of the clubs arent much better

I don't remember the name of the area. It wasn't Deep Ellum though. It was about 4 miles away from downtown. It looked like a much larger version of Campus Corner with far better venues.

I wasn't driving that night, I don't know Dallas very well (except for the downtown area), and I was the designated drinker. My recollection of driving direction is a bit fuzzy. Could have easily been west of downtown, but not north or south.

West End?

Offices, hotels, you name it. Business besides entertainment.

And Bricktown doesn't have offices? The Sonic Building is a complete office building. Hammons is building a 10 story Embassy Suites on the canal. Most of the older warehouses on the north canal have offices on the upper floors, everything from architects to law firms. The Glass Building and Confectionary Building across from Spaghetti Warehouse is filled with offices. U-Haul is a self storage facility. Main Street behind Spaghetti Warehouse has several industrial businesses, Federal Corporation, Melton Labco Fairway, Wholesale Flooring, etc.
General Pump Manufacturers and Fred Jones Body Shop are also in Bricktown.

West End?

Nah, it was about 4 miles away from downtown.

West End is pathetic.

I think Bricktown could still support a PF Changs quite easily, even with the one on Memorial. What Bricktown could use to really pump up some interest is a Cheesecake Factory or maybe a Houston's.

floating_adrift....I think I see your point. metro tried to point this out to me as well. We really don't want to see Memorial Rd. style developments in downtown, with maybe an exception being PF Changs. If Chang's Memorial Rd. restaurant is successful, they may consider Bricktown for a second site. We really need to focus on unique upscale establishments for Bricktown. I realize IHOP is locating in Bricktown, but we really need to limit those types of restaurants.

Nah, it was about 4 miles away from downtown.

West End is pathetic.

LOL! I second that remark!

Patrick: Bricktown is Bricktown. It is seperate from Downtown. The River Walk is not seperate from downtown San Antone. I think d'town OKC is better than San Antone, but still, if we extended the canal, maybe we would beat out the River Walk on this issue as well, but so far, this is just entertainment. The housing is actually in another district called Deep Deuce, and the only hotel in Bricktown is just under constuction.

I see your point Nick!

In the near future expect to see more residential housing and hotels in Bricktown. The Steel Yard development at the old WH Steel Yard should be a pretty substantial residential development for the Bricktown area. Once we get a more stable residential population downtown, things like retail will follow.

Hopefully someday our downtown area will be somewhat like San Antonio's with more store fronts and restaurants.

There is one problem I have with San Antonio's Riverwalk...it seems to be geared more for just the tourist. I think establishing residential housing in Bricktown will help overcome that problem here.

Bricktown is certainly not geared for tourists, it is a draw to our city, but unlike flaky tourist cities, OKC has a population that can actually support most of what is planned.

Will they ever build a residential skyscraper though? Well, someday I am sure, but I mean in 25 years.

Will they ever build a residential skyscraper though? Well, someday I am sure, but I mean in 25 years.

Actually, one may be in the works for the plot of land between Reno and the Harkins Theater on the west side of the canal. It probably won't be 25 stories though.....maybe as many as 10! We'll have to wait and see....negotiations are ongoing.

Cheesecake Factory would be great. Or better yet, Cheesecake Factory's upscale restaurant called Grand Lux CafŽ. Their beautiful interiors and amazing menu would be a great fit for Bricktown. Maybe where Lotus used to be?

Whatever goes there needs to be unique.

Actually, one may be in the works for the plot of land between Reno and the Harkins Theater on the west side of the canal. It probably won't be 25 stories though.....maybe as many as 10! We'll have to wait and see....negotiations are ongoing.

Who told you this?!?!?! That's amazing. I'll believe it if it comes from you, I'm just curious because I want to know more. Is it that Factory thing?

No, The Factory was actually planned to be developed over off Main Street behind Abuelos/Bricktown Brewery. Unfortunately, funding hasn't come together on that project, so it may or may not happen. If it does happen, it will probably be on a smaller scale than originally proposed.

The residential tower near the movie theater is just one of a few different proposals for Lower Bricktown. Randy Hogan, developer of Lower Bricktown, proposed it a few months ago. The residential tower would be a multi-story apartment complex, with some possiblities for ownership. Hogan has also tossed around the idea of possibly another hotel for the site. So nothing is set in stone yet.

Also, wasn't sure if you knew this Nick, but the open property near the Water taxi loading zone (east side of the canal) sold recently with the purchaser promising to build a hotel there. I haven't heard any more about the proposal though. Until I see dirt moving, it's not a done deal!

Better, I heard of it a few days ago, but I saw it the last time I was at the State Mental Health Blah Blah, I decided to eat lunch at Bricktown. Yeah, I saw it.

Sooner Rice you should post less and read more of our past threads

Midtowner I am positive you are talking about Deep Ellum unless you were over by the hard rock on McKinney Avenue. I know you are not referring to West End. and those are the three districts in and around downtown. Deep Ellum has alot of residential and other stuff besides all the bars and clubs

midtowner....i think your talking about lower greenville......upscale places in my opinion...hardly any parking and expensive when you find some.

midtowner....i think your talking about lower greenville......upscale places in my opinion...hardly any parking and expensive when you find some.

That's what it was.

I remember dressing up a little bit. Well, it was crowded to say the least. May have had something to do with the OU-TX game and the fact that West End is pathetic.

either way parking in Deep Ellum or Lower Greenville is still about $15-20 easy and crowded

Uhh... yeah. Howabout back on topic (post less, read more)...

Patrick, I have got a question: Did Bob Stoops ever get build that Louis' On The Lake, or did the granola heads conquer him?

yes Louie's on the Lake has been open for quite sometime although I do not see how that is back on topic with Memorial Rd.

I'm still wondering if Hogan is gonig to build a bike/skate rental shop...he told me that in conjunction with Louie's he was gonig to open such a facility, and it would be run by Wheeler Dealer. Wonder what happened. I'll have to give him a call I suppose.

Well... I ate at the Rredrock Canyon Grill tonight and there is no contruction being done. Louis is like Metro said, there. I don't see construction here for another while.

As I stated in a previoius thread ( I dont see how Memorial Rd. has to do with East Wharf) no more developments will occur out there for quite some time. You will hear in advance, (probably a vote) if any construction occurs. Insight Marketing Research was contracted to do the research as you may have known, Insight, then sub-contracted my group UCO Collegiate Marketing Association to do alot of the research. Again, I will keep any updates regarding Lake Hefner/ city-wide trail system in the Lake Hefner thread.

Well, it's within 2 miles of Memorial Road... oh, your right. Irrelevant. But I do want to say that none of us really expected Louis On The Lake either.

technically its more than 3 miles, 5 to the main part of the Memorial Rd. development in reference but I just meant it was irrelavant to this post considering there is already a Lake Hefner post, especially in that post I mentioned that construction would probably not occur without public consent thus unnecessary posts in this thread

No further development will take place at East Warf. Mr. Hogan faught much criticism allowing Louie's to locate near the East Warf development. City leaders have heard and ear-full from recreational users, and thus will probably not allow further development at the lake.

Yeah.. that's all bologna though. The recreation users, most of which come from the NW side, have many other options. Meridian has a nice, well... meridian. There is Martin Nature Park... Stars & Stripes Park, and more. Even, IMO the best park in Oklahoma, Will Rogers Park. I say we should completely terraform the east wharf and let more eateries move in. This also wouldn't be a bad place for a Galleria, if you can find the room for it.

But... ignore me please, I have not read the Public Opinion Opinion Report on the city's webpage yet. I plan on it.

No further development will take place at East Warf. Mr. Hogan faught much criticism allowing Louie's to locate near the East Warf development. City leaders have heard and ear-full from recreational users, and thus will probably not allow further development at the lake.

At least until another one of Hogan's cronies (like Humphries) is elected as mayor.

I'm glad that we have a mayor and council that actually care what the public thinks vs. the people that could potentially butter their bread.

Right on Midtowner. I don't think Moshe Tal would've been much of a better choice (no proof of financing from his so-called foreign investors), but I still think Hogan's friendship with Humphries played a role in Hogan getting the entire project. Also, don't forget, Hogan's partner on East Wharf, Fred Jones Hall, sits on the Urban Renewal board. He refused to vote on the Hogan selection due to conflicts of interest, but he still could've swayed other members of Urban Renewal to vote a certain way.

Hogan's development is okay, but I wish Urban Renewal would've waited a little longer to get someoe of national prominence on the scene. David Cordish would've been an axcellent developer without the tie to Moshe Tal.