View Full Version : More good news for Will Rogers airport



Patrick
01-13-2005, 01:39 AM
Looks like daily departures and arrivals continue to increase at our airport. Hmmmm....is the airport trust listening? If we continue increasing at this rate, we'll need that East Concourse within the next 10 to 20 years! With SW airlines dominating the OKC market, I really think they should consider locating a mini-hub here.

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"Boardings up 4.2% at Will Rogers World Airport


1/13/2005

Boardings at Will Rogers World Airport were up 4.2 percent in 2004.
Enplanements for the year totaled 1.7 million. Boardings were higher for all 12 months in 2004 from the same month of 2003, according to a monthly report released Wednesday. Monthly increases ranged from a high of 11.2 percent in March to low of 1.1 percent in July.

December's enplanements totaled 143,830, up 3.8 percent from December 2003. Deplanements in December totaled 135,735, up 3.5 percent from a year earlier.

Southwest Airlines was the dominate carrier at the airport in December with 41,055 enplanements, up 11.4 percent from a year earlier and 28.5 percent of total boardings in Oklahoma City for the month.

American Airlines was the second most active carrier for the month with 14,301 enplanements, or 9.9 percent of total boardings, and Continental was third with 13,244 enplanements, or 9.2 percent of the boardings at Will Rogers International Airport.:

Nuclear_2525
01-13-2005, 07:52 AM
December's enplanements totaled 143,830, up 3.8 percent from December 2003. Deplanements in December totaled 135,735, up 3.5 percent from a year earlier.


Where did all the people go? 143,000 left OKC and only 136,000 came back!

okcpulse
01-13-2005, 11:53 AM
Deplanements are usually higher in January than enplanements. I would assume that some fly out before Christmas and are back after the new year.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-13-2005, 08:40 PM
Brilliant analysis!

Patrick
01-13-2005, 08:57 PM
What do you guys think it will take to get the airport trust to go forward with the expansion of the East Concourse? Seems like news like this would sure help our cause in lobbying for Phase III!

okcpulse
01-13-2005, 09:53 PM
I have an idea! Let's lobby Mayor Mick Cornett to send the Airport Trust a memo informing the members to consider resignation if they can't use something as simple as common sense to reconsider Phase III and go ahead with the project.

bmrsnr
03-14-2005, 05:49 PM
what exactly is phase III you're talking about? And does anyone know if SW airlines is even looking to locate a more central (albeit mini) hub here? What could we do to get them to?

mranderson
03-14-2005, 06:07 PM
what exactly is phase III you're talking about? And does anyone know if SW airlines is even looking to locate a more central (albeit mini) hub here? What could we do to get them to?

bmrsnr: You are new to the group, and we welcome you. So, let me give you a brief history.

For years, the Oklahoma City Airport Trust has been sitting on their hands (in lieu of a phrase I can not use publically), failing to really improve air service to this city, and to do a REAL expansion to Will Rogers. We are a metro of almost 1.3 million people, and among the largest cities in the nation without hub status. In addition, we have the worst air service of any city our size in the nation. This is one reason corporations hesitate about moving here.

As a team effort, through this forum and the ones that preceeded it, we have been pressuring the trust to address these problems in a realistic fashion.

We need at minimum of 30 gates, and service to all major cities in the nation. Not connecting service. A combination of direct and non stop. This is achieved in two possible ways. One. Bring in every airline and their grandmother to serve a small number of cities each. This is not logical. Oklahoma City would have 100 airlines (well, maybe not quite, but many), many of which will fold. The other plan. Hub status.

I have written a lot about this. America West is investigating Oklahoma City for the possible location of a major hub. This will reduce drastically the number of cities not served by Will Rogers, and is the best plan of action. Southwest may increase flights from here, but I doubt a mini hub is in the plans.

We are lobbying the trust, mainly through this forum, and my possible candidacy for city council in 2007, to replace the trust with one that will take action and go after what we need. Plus do a REAL expansion to Will Rogers. One additional gate is NOT an expansion.

I hope this explains things.

HOT ROD
03-14-2005, 07:48 PM
I would vote for you , but unfortunately I live in Seattle.

I am all in favour of getting rid of the OKC Airport Trust. They are the ones who are really holding OKC back!!!

Patrick
03-14-2005, 11:19 PM
what exactly is phase III you're talking about? And does anyone know if SW airlines is even looking to locate a more central (albeit mini) hub here? What could we do to get them to?

I will explain the xpansion plans here, although you can also read them at flyokc.com.

Phase I involved building the new west concourse, expanding and moving the parking garage, demolishing the old southwest concourse, etc. It is now complete.

Phase II involved adding gates to the main terminal, expanding the terminal to the north, and demolsihing the current southeast concourse. This is currently in progress. This project will bring the airport back up to 16 gates.

Phase III involves adding a new east concourse which will bring the airport up to 25 gates.

There has been talk among the airport trust that there will not be a need to complete Phase III, since air traffic is down post-911, and Delta closed their DFW hub.
I firmly believe in the statement, "Build it, and they will come." I think not building the East Concourse would be a step backwards, showing airlines that we don't want better air service for our city.

bmrsnr
03-15-2005, 12:02 AM
Who all is on this airport trust? Is it an appointed position or automatic "appointment" with election to a gubernatorial position? And why the hell would they even consider not completing phase III? These people sound like royal idiots! I better get on that lobbying...haha

Patrick
03-15-2005, 12:11 AM
Luther Trent is the director of the airport trust. The members of the airport trust were appointed by various mayors/councils in the past. You can reach him at luther.trent@okc.gov.

xrayman
03-15-2005, 12:38 AM
That letter is not a bad idea. Leadership sometimes has to be tough.

JOHNINSOKC
03-15-2005, 11:17 AM
Is America West really considering OKC for a hub?? I haven't heard anything in the media about it. I really hope it comes to fruition though.

mranderson
03-15-2005, 11:53 AM
Is America West really considering OKC for a hub?? I haven't heard anything in the media about it. I really hope it comes to fruition though.

The information comes from an inside contact. The media would not report this until a decision has been made or is close.

JOHNINSOKC
03-16-2005, 08:56 AM
I wonder if the Airport Trust has any idea about the hub possibility. If they do know something, then it's possible that they are holding out on the east concourse until they find out that OKC is chosen. I would think that the new concourse needs to be substantially larger than what is currently planned. What I like about our airport is how much room there is to grow. With the new design and configuration, all that needs to happen is just expand on what is currently there. OKC could accommodate a huge airport like DFW, size-wise. I really hope America West establishes a major hub here. I believe that major companies will be foaming at the mouth to locate in OKC once this happens.

mranderson
03-16-2005, 09:05 AM
Odds are they do know, but are not making it well known and would proabably deny it. However, if they are holding the east concourse until a decision is made, that would be a serious mistake. America West will need that space immediatly, not in a year or two to wait construction.

What may happen is the airline may request a second terminal based on a multi decade lease, along with hanger space for maintanance.

Keep in mind. This information is from a person inside America West. They may not be at the stage to even contact the distrust. (for the new people that is what we call the airport trust), however the distrust may still know, but are not talking yet.

HOT ROD
03-16-2005, 12:56 PM
I wonder if the Airport Trust has any idea about the hub possibility. If they do know something, then it's possible that they are holding out on the east concourse until they find out that OKC is chosen. I would think that the new concourse needs to be substantially larger than what is currently planned. What I like about our airport is how much room there is to grow. With the new design and configuration, all that needs to happen is just expand on what is currently there. OKC could accommodate a huge airport like DFW, size-wise. I really hope America West establishes a major hub here. I believe that major companies will be foaming at the mouth to locate in OKC once this happens.


I Totally Agree!!!!! $$$$

Patrick
03-17-2005, 12:01 AM
I wonder if the Airport Trust has any idea about the hub possibility. If they do know something, then it's possible that they are holding out on the east concourse until they find out that OKC is chosen. I would think that the new concourse needs to be substantially larger than what is currently planned. What I like about our airport is how much room there is to grow. With the new design and configuration, all that needs to happen is just expand on what is currently there. OKC could accommodate a huge airport like DFW, size-wise. I really hope America West establishes a major hub here. I believe that major companies will be foaming at the mouth to locate in OKC once this happens.

I spoke with Karen Carney about the hub possibility a few weeks ago. She acted like she didn't have a clue what I was talking about. Nothing unusual about that....Carney and Trent always act clueless. :)

Yes, I also like the new airport design. The reason the old airport was demolished to make way for this new design was because the new design is expandable, the old design was not. All they need to do now is expand the concourses east and west. With the current design, it's easy to do!

Even if America West builds a separate terminal here on the south side of the main runways, the East Concourse is still needed. Personally, I'd use the west concourse and main terminal for major airlines, giving them designated gates.....then use the East Concourse for low cost airlines, without designated gates. Smaller planes like American Eagle could also use the East Concourse.

JOHNINSOKC
03-17-2005, 08:38 AM
Those ideas sound great!! It's really disappointing to know that Karen Carney has absolutely no clue about what is possibly ahead for the airport. If I remember correctly, she has stated in the past to the Oklahoman that they've had inquiries from a few airlines. There needs to be a more proactive stance on the part of the Airport Trust. When you look at everything positive that has happened in the last ten years, the airport is really the only thing that is stagnant. Yes, we are doing a total renovation and slight expansion, but nothing that really sticks out that has a WOW factor like MAPS, for instance. We are taking major steps to improve downtown, education, tourism, and trying to greatly improve the image of OKC to the nation, and yet, our airport is falling behind. We can no longer blame Dallas for our lack of air service and ability to fly to other major cities, especially the coastal cities of importance. With everything going on tourism and convention-wise and the REAL possibility that things will take off moreso in the future, the time to act is NOW. How is the Airport Trust elected?? It seems like the same people have been running it for years.

okcpulse
03-17-2005, 09:15 AM
I really wonder, and hope, that the airport trust reads this forum. I know I've said this before. If they do, it must not be registering in their minds that they are doing a poor job after everything we have posted.

OUman
03-17-2005, 10:23 AM
bmrsnr: You are new to the group, and we welcome you. So, let me give you a brief history.

For years, the Oklahoma City Airport Trust has been sitting on their hands (in lieu of a phrase I can not use publically), failing to really improve air service to this city, and to do a REAL expansion to Will Rogers. We are a metro of almost 1.3 million people, and among the largest cities in the nation without hub status. In addition, we have the worst air service of any city our size in the nation. This is one reason corporations hesitate about moving here.

As a team effort, through this forum and the ones that preceeded it, we have been pressuring the trust to address these problems in a realistic fashion.

We need at minimum of 30 gates, and service to all major cities in the nation. Not connecting service. A combination of direct and non stop. This is achieved in two possible ways. One. Bring in every airline and their grandmother to serve a small number of cities each. This is not logical. Oklahoma City would have 100 airlines (well, maybe not quite, but many), many of which will fold. The other plan. Hub status.

I have written a lot about this. America West is investigating Oklahoma City for the possible location of a major hub. This will reduce drastically the number of cities not served by Will Rogers, and is the best plan of action. Southwest may increase flights from here, but I doubt a mini hub is in the plans.

We are lobbying the trust, mainly through this forum, and my possible candidacy for city council in 2007, to replace the trust with one that will take action and go after what we need. Plus do a REAL expansion to Will Rogers. One additional gate is NOT an expansion.

I hope this explains things.

Umm, I probably missed something somewhere, but where did you find out that America West is investigating Oklahoma City for a possible hub?

It's odd, because America West just recently dumped its Port Columbus International hub since it was a money-losing operation. And Columbus has a bigger population than Oklahoma City does, about 1.5-1.6 mil.

Not saying you're making stuff up or anything, just wondering where you heard this. I would be really excited if America West decided to do that at OKC (slim possibility, but hey, it's something to hope for!)

OUman

OUman
03-17-2005, 10:40 AM
Ahh, btw,

even if you know something if you're on the airport trust, isn't it that you can't disclose any information until it has been made official or public? I've heard that if you're on an official post, you can't disclose information prematurely like that.

Sorry for the digression. Going back to the topic, I really hope we get something along the lines of what's going on at Indianapolis Int'l airport. Northwest and Northwest Jetlink now have something like 55 daily departures alone! And they both took over an entire concourse (8 gates). Maybe we won't get something that big, but a 5-gate minihub will still be good.

And w/ the increase in traffic, yes, the East Concourse will be built, eventually. I have asked this through e-mail a few times a while back, and the response was that yes, the East Concourse is still going to be built.

OUman

mranderson
03-17-2005, 10:45 AM
Umm, I probably missed something somewhere, but where did you find out that America West is investigating Oklahoma City for a possible hub?

It's odd, because America West just recently dumped its Port Columbus International hub since it was a money-losing operation. And Columbus has a bigger population than Oklahoma City does, about 1.5-1.6 mil.

Not saying you're making stuff up or anything, just wondering where you heard this. I would be really excited if America West decided to do that at OKC (slim possibility, but hey, it's something to hope for!)

OUman

I listened in on a conversation (with permission) between someone and a relative of theirs who works at America West HQ in the Phoenix area. He said Oklahoma City was being considered because of our high secuirty due to the Murrah building and our central location. Will it happen? Who knows. I can only report what I heard. And he also said it is based on traffic count. Which is not much to ask.

JOHNINSOKC
03-17-2005, 10:59 AM
Just out of curiosity, how long ago did that conversation take place? It's been 10 years since the bombing. Again, not doubting the conversation, just wondering how long ago that was. If it's been in the past few months, then there's hope. Who knows, nobody knew about Dell before it was announced.

mranderson
03-17-2005, 11:15 AM
Just out of curiosity, how long ago did that conversation take place? It's been 10 years since the bombing. Again, not doubting the conversation, just wondering how long ago that was. If it's been in the past few months, then there's hope. Who knows, nobody knew about Dell before it was announced.

In late January, 2005 AFTER America West announced plans for Oklahoma City.

HOT ROD
03-17-2005, 03:35 PM
nice.

Lets keep our fingers crossed!!!!!

xrayman
03-17-2005, 03:35 PM
I'm with you all the way on the America West hub possibility. I think it's real and would be a HUGE shot-in-the-arm for our great city! Let's make it happen!

Patrick
03-17-2005, 11:35 PM
I believe right now America West is introducing a few new flights from OKC to test our market. The success of their flights from here may determine the future of their air service in our city.

Also, OUMan, you got the same general response the Airport Trust usually gives via email....."we still plan on finishing the East Concourse!" Sure, but when? Karen told me that they've considered pushing it off and delaying it for several years due to passenger traffic being down post-911. Remember that Phase III was supposed to begin at the conclusion of Phase II. That's in doubt.

bmrsnr
03-17-2005, 11:44 PM
I was just reading at flyokc, and I'm not sure if they're trying to purposefully deceive the public, but if not, it says that phase II isn't scheduled for completion until December of this year or January of next year. If that's the case, are we rushing the gun to see the east terminal expanded? I've already seen that they've poured the foundation for the new Southwest gates. What else is there to do in this ever elusive (haha) east expansion?

Patrick
03-18-2005, 12:10 AM
The new Southwest gates are part of the main terminal building. The East Concourse will resemble the West Concourse, and stretch off of the main terminal towards the east.

OUman
03-18-2005, 09:37 AM
The new Southwest gates are probably finshed by now. Last May when I flew down to Austin, they already had the steel framework in place. A freind of mine just recently visited Oklahoma City and he said that there was a concourse which was closed and the jetways were taken off. That's Concourse C, unless he was talkng about something else, which can't be the case since Concourse B is already long gone now. And he said the Southwest gates appeared to be "much closer" to the American Airlines gates, so I'm assuming the new Southwest gates are already in use, or close to being in use.

And I agree w/ bmrsnr. Let's see what the Airport Trust says at the end of this year. That's when construction on the remaining three main terminal gates will be nearing completion (those will be for Delta and Delta Connection). Hopefully, by that time, they'll have decided to start work on the East Concourse. Let's also hope that pax traffic counts are up over last year. OKC's traffic count has gotten off to a good start in January, and this month should also have good numbers since we have NCAA games in the Ford Center.

OUman

mranderson
03-18-2005, 09:43 AM
I will be flying to the west coast May 28. What I will do is take some pictures of the inside of the new concouse. I will be taking America West, so I do not know yet what gate I will depart from. If I can, I will walk to the new concourse if I am in the old one. I will then post them in my gallery.

metro
04-07-2005, 11:36 AM
Arrival roadway opens to traveling public
Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2005
Arrival roadway opens to traveling public


Will Rogers World Airport's arrival roadway, located on the lower level and next to the terminal, opens for public use today. This will return the convenience of picking up passengers directly in front of the building, another milestone reached in the airport's terminal expansion project.

Both the upper and lower roadways were closed for nearly two years to facilitate the expansion of the front of the terminal building and curbside area. Much of the old roadway had to be demolished and new lanes rebuilt to accommodate the expansion. The upper, or departure roadway, opened last October.

Security regulations will still prohibit visitors from parking or leaving their vehicles unattended in this area.

Now that all private vehicular traffic is operating in the permanent locations, the transportation plaza, where pick up and drop off traffic was temporarily routed, will revert to its original function. All public transportation including taxis, shuttles vans, hotel courtesy vehicles, limousines and busses will use the plaza.

In the next month, the airport will see the opening of the new Southwest Airlines gates, the new American Airlines ticket counter and baggage claim, the opening of Schlotskyís, Sbarro, Sonic and The Big 12 Shop. The dedication of the bronze statue of Will Rogers is scheduled for May 5.


In addition, Delta Airlines will move their ticket counter, gates and baggage claim to temporary locations in the new sections of the building.

Of course, as new areas open and others close for their scheduled renovations, several new routes for pedestrians will be put in place.

The opening of the roadway is part of the Oklahoma City Airport Trustís $110 million expansion/renovation project. The project expands the terminal building in all four directions and totally renovates the areas that remain. The bulk of the project is slated for completion in December 2005.

Pete
04-08-2005, 09:04 PM
Hello all, I'm brand new to these boards and although I live in Southern California, I was an OKC resident for 29 years and still have a great love and interest in the city.

Regarding the airport, does anyone know if Karen Carney's sole job is to be the airport spokesperson / marketing coordinator?

She's listed as the contact person for flyokc-dot-com and I wrote her an email over 6 months ago asking when the construction photos and various other sections of the website might be updated. She said 'soon' and half a year later, not much has happened.

It concerns me because the airport is the gateway to the city for many and the website itself is relatively done well -- it just doesn't seem that anyone has the responsibility of updating it.


Also, I was wondering who Karen might report to?


Thanks in advance.

okcpulse
04-09-2005, 12:13 AM
Welcome, MalibuSooner. I will soon be in your position as my wife and I will be taking up residency in Texas in 7 months, although we plan to return to Oklahoma City down the road. Karen Carney is the airport spokeswoman, although I'm sure about marketing coordinator.

I recently flew to Houston, and although the east concourse needs to be built, I am amazed and impressed with Oklahoma City's gateway. It's big, open and sleek, and the terminal building will serve Oklahoma City's visitors well.

The website, however, is poorly maintained.

We on OKCTalk have expressed dissent among the powers that be on the Oklahoma City Airport Trust. Their decision making is poor, and the Trust, although transforming WRWA into a more appealing airport, lacks vision for the future of our airport.

Thinking outside the box, having a vision and taking a worth-while risk should always be required of a public leader. The Airport Trust lacks all three, or so they have demonstrated lately. Come on, Airport Trust. Prove me wrong. Prove OKCTalk wrong.

mranderson
04-09-2005, 07:13 AM
MalibuSooner: I too welcome you.

It is no sectret on this board that I am seriously considering running for Oklahoma City city council. My main platform, also no secret, is major expantion of Will Rogers.

The other posts on this matter will give my views. However, in short, they are simple. WIll Rogers, although turned into a nice looking terminal, is a joke. 17 gates for a city of nearly 1.5 million metro population is just too small. We gain very little new business as a rsult, and have much less tourist trade than we could have as a result. We need to be a hub. We need scores more air traffic. Every city our size has an abundnat amount of air traffic, but out airport distrust just sits on their wahzoos and does very little... And that includes the website. It is horrible in compasion to other citties... Even those much smaller.

Pete
04-09-2005, 07:21 AM
Actually, Karen's title is Marketing Director and part of her responsibility is to be the spokesperson for the airport.

It's my strong impression that Karen's full-time job is to be marketing the airport but I can't imagine how she's spending her time if the website can't even be updated with her own press releases. I also saw her quoted in a recent article about construction where she bascially said they don't make much of an attempt to communicate to the public because "things are changing daily." Seems like that's exactly why you *would* be communicating with the public, especially when it seems to be her job to do so.


And regarding the lack of vision by the airport leadership, I have to agree with everyone here on their accessment. I've traveled to just about every city in the U.S., and OKC's air service is far below the standards for cities fo similar size.

It's very hard to present the an image of a progressive, up-and-coming town when the people you hope to impress have to be wedged on a lousy little plane.


At the very least, the new aiport design does allow for future expansion. I've also been impressed by what I've seen in the design.


mranderson, who is the incumbent in your city council district?

mranderson
04-09-2005, 08:46 AM
Actually, Karen's title is Marketing Director and part of her responsibility is to be the spokesperson for the airport.

It's my strong impression that Karen's full-time job is to be marketing the airport but I can't imagine how she's spending her time if the website can't even be updated with her own press releases. I also saw her quoted in a recent article about construction where she bascially said they don't make much of an attempt to communicate to the public because "things are changing daily." Seems like that's exactly why you *would* be communicating with the public, especially when it seems to be her job to do so.


And regarding the lack of vision by the airport leadership, I have to agree with everyone here on their accessment. I've traveled to just about every city in the U.S., and OKC's air service is far below the standards for cities fo similar size.

It's very hard to present the an image of a progressive, up-and-coming town when the people you hope to impress have to be wedged on a lousy little plane.


At the very least, the new aiport design does allow for future expansion. I've also been impressed by what I've seen in the design.


mranderson, who is the incumbent in your city council district?

MalibuSooner. It is Jerry Foshee. He is the chairman of the Oklahoma City aviation committee and is supose to have a seat on the airport trust. Ward five is suppose to be an automatic appointment, however, the former council member from ward five has it. If elected, I want the seat to go to the man who deserves it. The council member from Ward five.

metro
04-09-2005, 11:43 AM
It is no sectret on this board that I am seriously considering running for Oklahoma City city council. My main platform, also no secret, is major expantion of Will Rogers.

Mranderson, first off I want to say I respect you and usually agree with you. I also encourage you to run as we share many ideas. Coming from somone who has just run for this past city council race I can honestly say getting issues this large of scale done in a city council position will be much harder than expected. I encourage you to start attending every city council meeting NOW and start getting involved with the OKC Chamber of Commerce and Leadership OKC and other various organizations and start building your base and platforms now. One of my main issues was code enforcement, not an easy to address issue to people who are "violaters" but a much more attainable goal. Anyhow I just want to make sure you are doing your fundraising and homework now so that you can have a good chance at winning and I will help you with knowledge about the local political scene and support you in any other way I can.

HOT ROD
04-09-2005, 04:17 PM
Excellent Metro. :)

It is great of you to offer MrAnderson your political assistance. Hopefully in a few years, we will truly have our voice on the OKC leadership team. I prefer both of you either in office or holding high ranking posts in DowntownOKC, Airport Trust, or the OKC Chamber.

Good luck and hopefully we here on the forum will continue to develop and grow our tight-knit political agenda, which is:

Continue the Renaissance!

of Downtown Oklahoma City
of Will Rogers World Airport
of Metropolitan Oklahoma City
of the Great State of Oklahoma

HOT ROD
04-09-2005, 04:18 PM
Malibu - welcome to the forum. I like floater and others, do not reside in OKC but used to. I currently live in Seattle but have a fond interest in my hometown because I always knew it had potential. I feel I can make a contribution by exposing great examples of progress from the Pacific NW (Vancouver BC, Seattle, Portland) as well as being a champion for urban progress in the city of Oklahoma City.

I also visit the forum to get up-to-date information about OKC, as you have noticed - official web sites are often not accurate or updated. This forum is a synergy of local news and personal experience of the posters, which is often more accurate and much more current.

Nice to have you on board and feel free to post, not to take away from Patrick (who normally makes these type of introductions). I felt, as a fellow west coaster, I would welcome you this time!

Continue the Renaissance!

Pete
04-09-2005, 04:25 PM
Thanks, Hot Rod. Seattle and Portland are two of the best-planned cities in the U.S. IMO.


OKC's biggest problem from my perspective is the needless, ugly urban srpawl. But that's for a different thread and assume this is not the first time the point has been raised. :o)

I am strongly considering moving back to OKC somewhere down the line and glad to see things are going in a much better direction than when I left in '89. I get back at least once a year and through the Internet, pretty much stay up to speed with what's going on.

And I think we ex-pats can offer some different perspectives that is needed.


Really glad to find a such an intelligent group that shares my passion for Oklahoma City!

Patrick
04-11-2005, 11:30 AM
Thanks, Hot Rod. Seattle and Portland are two of the best-planned cities in the U.S. IMO.


OKC's biggest problem from my perspective is the needless, ugly urban srpawl. But that's for a different thread and assume this is not the first time the point has been raised. :o)

I am strongly considering moving back to OKC somewhere down the line and glad to see things are going in a much better direction than when I left in '89. I get back at least once a year and through the Internet, pretty much stay up to speed with what's going on.

And I think we ex-pats can offer some different perspectives that is needed.


Really glad to find a such an intelligent group that shares my passion for Oklahoma City!

Unfortunately, ugly urban sprawl is common in practically every metro area. I'm not sure there's a way to get around it. Maybe increasing gas prices will help. I've noticed new construction has deceased in the suburbs and far north sides of the city in recent months.

Personally, I still think developments like those on Memorial Rd. only add to the urban sprawl problem, but that's simply my opinion.

Patrick
04-11-2005, 11:36 AM
Now, back the airport...

I suppose it is Karen's final say what happens to the website, but you also have to remember, a webmaster is responsible for that, not really Karen.

Although I think the present "expansion" of the airport has converted it into a much nicer facility, thus far the so-called "expansion" has been somewhat of a joke. After the main terminal is finished we'll have 17 gates, 1 more than we had before. That's crazy for a city our size.

For years now, we've expressed here and before our city leaders that we feel the current situation among the airport trust and at the airport itself has been somewhat of a joke. I'm sure I don't know allof the inside details or the excuses as to why we don't have better airservice in this city, but it seems like with a cityy this large, our airport trust could provide some incentives to at least get more non stop flights to the coasts.

OKC has a lot of traits that are seen as advantages to airlines. We have more flying days here than almost any other city. We're centrally located in the country. Currently all other centrally located cities have hubs, thus any start up airlines or other airlines ike American West should strongly be considering us for a central hub since we're available.

Our airport trust needs to negotiate with these airlines to try to sell our city as a possible location for a central hub. I'm just not sure our airport trust is donig anything in this area.

Pete
04-11-2005, 11:40 AM
Urban sprawl is mainly a problem in the newer ciities of the southwest, where there are little geographically boundaries to inhibit the natural spread.

However, many communities limit the number of building permits and where they are issued and it's clear OKC and Edmond don't even think in these terms.

Also, it's absurd to me to keep building freeways out in the middle of cow pastures. Memorial road fit that category when it was build and Quail Springs Mall was built way before there was any real need. All it did was cannablize Penn Square and Crossroads.

Just recently, they built the Kilpartrick turnpike which will do nothing but spread the city's limited resources even further.


Yes, it's a problem everywhere but most cities recognize it as such and have taken measures to do something about it. It doesn't even seem to be a topic of conversation among OKC leaders at the present time.

Patrick
04-11-2005, 12:44 PM
Urban sprawl is mainly a problem in the newer ciities of the southwest, where there are little geographically boundaries to inhibit the natural spread.

However, many communities limit the number of building permits and where they are issued and it's clear OKC and Edmond don't even think in these terms.

Also, it's absurd to me to keep building freeways out in the middle of cow pastures. Memorial road fit that category when it was build and Quail Springs Mall was built way before there was any real need. All it did was cannablize Penn Square and Crossroads.

Just recently, they built the Kilpartrick turnpike which will do nothing but spread the city's limited resources even further.


Yes, it's a problem everywhere but most cities recognize it as such and have taken measures to do something about it. It doesn't even seem to be a topic of conversation among OKC leaders at the present time.

This is off topic, but Quail Springs Mall has actually helped Penn Square in the long run. In response to the new Quail Springs Mall, Federated, the owners of Penn Square at the time, decided to compete instead of retreat. Thus, they expanded the mall north, added a second level, added a wing to the east, added two new department stores, etc.

Penn Square is the better mall in the metro today because of Quail Springs! The competition between the two malls is actually quite good.

Penn Square had an edge up right after they added the 2nd level, movie theater, etc. back in 1989. Quail Springs had the edge up when they remodeled and added the AMC 24 movie theater in 1999. Penn Square then responded with a multimillion dollar rennovation which was completed in 2000 and turned Penn Square into an even more upscale center to differentiate it further from Quail Springs. This has helped Penn in the long run, because they're competing for a completely different clientale than Quail is today. Quail caters more to middle class families, Penn caters more to young professionals, older professionals, and the creative class.

Patrick
04-11-2005, 12:44 PM
Sorry for getting us off topic! Back to the airport.

Pete
04-11-2005, 01:01 PM
Regarding the website, in my emails with Karen she pretty much said the reason it had not been updated was due to her "being out of pocket". I'm a webmaster myself so I understand the mechanics of updating but it seemed very clear to me that Karen was dropping the ball.

And as previously mentioned, she seemed to really cop an attitude in a recent Oklahoma article about the airport. She basically said she didn't see the value of putting out information about the changes to the walkways and the like because everything was changing so quickly. I wrote an email to the author of that article (Steve Lackmeyer) and shared my concerns.


It's a small thing when compared to the bigger issues regarding the long-range strategic planning for the aiport, but I think it's all very telling and reflects negatively on the city.

Heck, if you can't do the small, high-profile things right, you know there are much bigger issues.

Patrick
04-11-2005, 03:19 PM
The small day to day issus Karen is talking about are the moving of machinery, drilling pillers, installing windows, etc. Obviously, you don't want to report on all of that, but she could at least update the pics on the website on a monthly basis.