This kind of story is why there a lot of us that are somewhat skeptical about *religious* based charities and the Life Churches of the world....$110 mil on advertising in the last three years?
http://www.newsok.com/feed-the-children-fight-rages/article/3349494?custom_click=lead_story_title

Internal documents at Feed The Children reveal that the charity last year had problems ranging from the embezzlement of $100,000 at an overseas office to major theft at an Indiana warehouse.

The son of the charity’s founders had work done on his personal home at charity expense and had a charity credit card even though he is not an employee, the records show.

The documents also reveal the Oklahoma City-based charity spent almost $110 million over three years not on food but on radio and TV advertising.

Five of the charity’s directors have complained that the charity’s founder and president, Larry Jones, made repeated decisions without board approval that ended up hurting the charity. Jones, in turn, complained that the ministry’s mission to feed children came to a standstill for months because he was bootstrapped "with committees, after committees, after committees.”

The five directors and Jones are now in a legal fight to control the charity.

Much is at stake. The charity had more than $1 billion in donations last fiscal year, according to the lawsuit. The charity reports Jones’ compensation was $224,883 in fiscal year 2007.

The charity’s internal documents became public because they are exhibits in the legal case. They include board minutes and an internal auditor’s memo. Jones, 68, said the memo is "half-truths, rumor and innuendo.”

Records show problems
The internal documents and other records show:

• An audit discovered more than $100,000 was embezzled by the son of a Feed The Children consultant in South Africa. Directors voted last year not to add international offices for a while because of such problems.


• A charity warehouse in Elkhart, Ind., was "stripped” over two to three years. An internal inquiry found a management company’s staff removed building components and excess equipment and sold them at salvage yards. The costs to fix the building were estimated at hundreds of thousands of dollars. A director said the site was stripped while under the oversight of the founders’ son, Allen Jones, "who had been involved in previous incidents which affected Feed The Children and its reputation among potential donors.”

• Allen Jones was required to repay the charity $3,874 for a garage door and other work on his home done at charity expense. Directors also sought $12,705 from him for the personal storage of his boat and other items at the Indiana facility.

• The board discussed putting restrictions on Allen Jones’ ties to the charity because of his "destructive” behavior. The board said, "Allen is not an employee, though (he) has a company credit card and holds himself out as being involved with Feed The Children by using offices, storage space and (he) operates company equipment and vehicles.” Allen Jones could not be reached for comment.

• Larry Jones was barred last year from charity matters involving the Indiana facility. Despite the ban, he allegedly threatened to fire an employee who did an investigation for not briefing him on the results.

• The internal auditor reported Larry Jones entered into costly agreements on behalf of Feed The Children even after the board agreed no executive officer could have sole authority to do that.

• The charity paid almost $110 million for radio and television advertising over three years. The charity paid more than $80 million on direct mail advertising for those years.

• The charity lost $1.67 million in litigation costs because of decisions by Larry Jones to install and then remove a call center at the Indiana site. The call center solicited donations.

• Larry Jones promoted paying a professional golfer, Lee Janzen, who had worn a shirt with the charity’s logo in tournaments. "More discussion was had regarding the sponsorship price of $250,000 per year,” according to minutes of an Aug. 1 meeting. The partnership was announced in September. Jones had a contract for 2½ years sent to the golfer even though directors wanted a one-year deal.

• The board had concerns about how much Larry Jones’ wife, Frances, was working for the charity because of health woes. "It was discussed that the relatively low number of hours worked in relation to the compensation paid might draw unwanted attention from the” Internal Revenue Service, according to the minutes of a June meeting. Frances Jones in fiscal year 2007 was paid $173,049 by the charity. The board discussed making her a contract employee to get around the problem.

This just the tip of the iceburg. It is sad that this has been going on for as long as FTC has been in business.

My wife worked for them for several months a few years ago. She quit in disgust over everything about the place and the Jones. And when we saw that headline this morning she said just about what Frisky just did, but I think she first said (with her finest sarcasm) OH MY, what a surprise.

Worse than the ORU scandal. In similar fashion, the only way they'll recover is if the fired board members are successful in ousting Jones.

"This kind of story is why there a lot of us that are somewhat skeptical about *religious* based charities and the Life Churches of the world....$110 mil on advertising in the last three years?"....

I'm sorry, but what does LifeChurch.tv have to do with Feed the Children? Is LifeChurch involved in some sort of scandel too? If so, please post a link or cite your source. It's totally unfair for you to bundle all *religious* based charities together and assume that all of them are crooked... So please, cite your source...

"Feed the Children" Charity Under Fire - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/cbsnews_investigates/main6221248.shtml)

[QUOTEThis kind of story is why there a lot of us that are somewhat skeptical about *religious* based charities and the Life Churches of the world....$110 mil on advertising in the last three years? [/QUOTE]

Easy 180 - I agree that any comment about a totally different organization than Feed the Children is maliscious and completely unfair unless you can show Life Churches is doing something wrong. Comments like that very much should be associated with some sort of proof. I know nothing about Life Churches but this appears to be really pulling your overall dislike for organized religion in from left field.

The really sad thing is that Feed the Children has done a lot of good over the years but has apparently just fallen apart at the seams under Larry Jones. I was a kid out of college collecting their checks at the bank and the people then seemed 100% dedicated to what they were doing. Its all changed now apparently.

[QUOTEThis kind of story is why there a lot of us that are somewhat skeptical about *religious* based charities and the Life Churches of the world....$110 mil on advertising in the last three years?

Easy 180 - I agree that any comment about a totally different organization than Feed the Children is maliscious and completely unfair unless you can show Life Churches is doing something wrong. Comments like that very much should be associated with some sort of proof. I know nothing about Life Churches but this appears to be really pulling your overall dislike for organized religion in from left field.

The really sad thing is that Feed the Children has done a lot of good over the years but has apparently just fallen apart at the seams under Larry Jones. I was a kid out of college collecting their checks at the bank and the people then seemed 100% dedicated to what they were doing. Its all changed now apparently.[/QUOTE]

Sorry Mug but LC is a joke. They are a business not a church. But this is Oklahoma after all, and me being from Tulsa, I am not new to mega church business.

Notice how the critics always attack, what is probably the most successful in the U.S., Lifechurch. Just how Satan would want it, attack the success, not the churches who are stagnating and losing attendance on their own.

Lifechurch is also accredited by ECFA, which they don't just hand out their certifications, and you can't buy one either. They uphold the highest of financial integrity for their qualifications. I'd like to see your average small Baptist (or pick your denomination or lack of one, Buddhist or Jewish Temple, Mosque, Jehovah's Witness congregation, etc.) church or Feed The Children with such a high accreditation for financial integrity.

http://www.okctalk.com/faith-values/14768-lifechurch-tv-receives-ecfa-accreditation.html

Things like this are why I sometimes hesitate to donate to charitable organizations.

QUOTE] Sorry Mug but LC is a joke. They are a business not a church. But this is Oklahoma after all, and me being from Tulsa, I am not new to mega church business.[/QUOTE]

I think we are all familiar with Mega Churches but not all are the same, just like not all politicians or Doctors or televisions are the same. I don't particularly love them and have never found reason to attend one but to lump anything in with what appears to be the situation with Feed the Children with nothing more than 'just because you felt like saying it' is malicious.

Have you been to Life Church? What can you tell me about the minister? Some people get a great deal from that environment. Just because you don't go and I don't go doesn't mean we have the moral right or the legal right to denegrate and falsely associate something someone may have poured their heart and soul into to build. How'd you like someone to do that to your wife or your child?

Easy 180 - I agree that any comment about a totally different organization than Feed the Children is maliscious and completely unfair unless you can show Life Churches is doing something wrong.

Are they making money? Then they are doing something wrong.
Are the church leaders living in huge houses and driving fancy cars? Then they are doing something wrong.
Are they building multi-million dollar facilities all over the region while local schools have no money for science books or air-conditioning? Then they are doing something wrong.

I havent seen anything in particularly damaging to Life Church in the press.
But the traditionals have had some sex scandals, money scandals, power struggles,molestations and so forth.
I think the kind of problems comes when there's not people overseeing each other to avoid the derision of others.

OK, so the question is ARE THEY MAKING MONEY? What do you consider a huge house or a fancy car? Your third question is just silly. One doesn't have anything to do with another.

Hey, if you can show some evidence then I may be right there with you. I'm generally no fan of televangelists and Mega Churces, but as I said, some people really get a lot out of that environment. To just make an allegation about someone or some entity when you aren't showing a shred of evidence is just a smear campaign.

[QUOTEThis kind of story is why there a lot of us that are somewhat skeptical about *religious* based charities and the Life Churches of the world....$110 mil on advertising in the last three years?

Easy 180 - I agree that any comment about a totally different organization than Feed the Children is maliscious and completely unfair unless you can show Life Churches is doing something wrong. Comments like that very much should be associated with some sort of proof. I know nothing about Life Churches but this appears to be really pulling your overall dislike for organized religion in from left field.

The really sad thing is that Feed the Children has done a lot of good over the years but has apparently just fallen apart at the seams under Larry Jones. I was a kid out of college collecting their checks at the bank and the people then seemed 100% dedicated to what they were doing. Its all changed now apparently.[/QUOTE]

I just said this is why many of us are skeptical of religious charities and the Life Church approach...Seemed somewhat related to me since they both advertise heavily...Made no allegations about Life Church

Are you trying to say there aren't a good amount of people out there skeptical of mega churches?

First, your quote was
and the Life Churches of the world....$110 mil on advertising in the last three years?
. Your comment didn't say "Life Church approach..." Those are two different things. Your comment was a direct accusation against a particular institution that may be nothing but a Mega Church. You are further making a false accusation
Are you trying to say there aren't a good amount of people out there skeptical of mega churches? The statement about skepticism about mega churches is your own. I never said anything of the kind and it has nothing to do with what I said. My sole comment was you lumped Life Church into the same group as Feed the Children with its current financial problems without providing any evidence whatsoever that Life Church is doing anything remotely wrong. That's like saying "Bernie Madoff, Tiger Woods, Charlie Sheen, Timothy McVeigh, Easy 180 and their kind......."

OK, so the question is ARE THEY MAKING MONEY? What do you consider a huge house or a fancy car?

Oh come on, stop being daft. Mega churches are a business, and one of the worst when it comes to morals and ethics. While some businesses might take advantage of poor widows and the gullible as collateral damage, that practice is the very business model of the mega church. Stop pretending otherwise.



Your third question is just silly. One doesn't have anything to do with another.

No, they have everything to do with each other. Every dollar you give to some lying cleric to build a another multi-million dollar monstrosity of uselessness is a dollar NOT spent on air conditioners and science books for a high school across town.

Not surprised at all. What surprises me more is that people are still naive enough to believe that this doesn't happen or that "someone is out to get them"....them being the mega church/charity.

Church and charities have been big business ever since they were founded.

Many people already know this and accept it. I would dare say that most pastors know this also and many of them exploit it.

I was surprised to hear, when talking to a local pastor, that many clergy come from the law school ranks. Why is this? He said it was because the two professions require very similar skill sets in order to be successful.

Oh come on, stop being daft. Mega churches are a business, and one of the worst when it comes to morals and ethics. While some businesses might take advantage of poor widows and the gullible as collateral damage, that practice is the very business model of the mega church. Stop pretending otherwise.

No, they have everything to do with each other. Every dollar you give to some lying cleric to build a another multi-million dollar monstrosity of uselessness is a dollar NOT spent on air conditioners and science books for a high school across town.

No pretending being done. You are lumping all so-called mega churches into one lump which you really have no idea if it is justified or not. Sure, this type of entity has a business model and growth plans, otherwise it would be the little white wooden church on the corner. As I said, I have no intention of every going to one because its not my thing, nor is any church. However, to cast aspersions on this church when you know nothing about it (or at least have not presented any evidence about it other than it falls into your definition of a mega church) is maliscious. Apparently there are hundreds of people just from this church alone who disagree with you - and at least they are witness to the church itself.

You suprise me with your attitude to it considering your other comments in this forum. Its like those on here who castigate big business just be cause the business happens to be large sized. What constitutes "big business" and what constitues a "mega church" to you? At what point does it stop being a large "Southern Baptist" type of churce and starts being a mega church? Is NW Baptist Church a useless monolith? Is First Presby? Is First Christian? Do you feel the same way about, say the Crystal Cathedral, or Billy Graham as you do this church? Or are you just expressing a dislike for organized religion in general?

A church is not the preacher or the building. Its the parishoners. The people of that church like the atmosphere. They like the glitz and instruments. They like the light shows and the "show."

As for your second opinion. You could write a check for $100,000 and give it to the OKC public schools with a note on it to buy A/C's for, say, Taft Jr. High School. I dont believe the school board couldn't abide by your wishes because they have to treat all schools the same and not show favoritism to that one school just because it has a wealthy benefactor.

Once again, please post a link or provide evidence to support statements that LifeChurch is somehow ripping people off or involved in any way with any sort of underhanded or shady activities. It sounds to me like most of you people sit behind your computers and wait to be offended, basing your opinions on "I heard this... Someone told me that...". POST A LINK OR EVIDENCE.

Obviously, he can't. He made a wide sweeping generalization about mega churches that he can't support with anything other than his opinion. His sole supporting argument was that the church spends a lot of money on promotions. Well, LifeChurch isn't a charity, it is a church trying to attract parishoners. That's what churches do so the church can "save their souls." This one happens to be on a larger scale than most. Until and unless he shows Life Church is doing something wrong, he is simply making a malicious, demeaning statement about something without a shred of proof. Now, if there is specific evidence this specific church organization has done something illegal, immoral, detremental to anyone, or without regard to the benefit of society, we can talk.

If he made a similar statement about an ethnic group it would be called racism or bigotry.

Once again, please post a link or provide evidence to support statements that LifeChurch is somehow ripping people off or involved in any way with any sort of underhanded or shady activities. It sounds to me like most of you people sit behind your computers and wait to be offended, basing your opinions on "I heard this... Someone told me that...". POST A LINK OR EVIDENCE.

Evidence that many are skeptical of Life Church?...Again never said I had evidence of anything other than there are a good amount of us skeptical of big spending religious based non profits is all

Shocking statement :omg:

Obviously, he can't. He made a wide sweeping generalization about mega churches that he can't support with anything other than his opinion. His sole supporting argument was that the church spends a lot of money on promotions. Well, LifeChurch isn't a charity, it is a church trying to attract parishoners. That's what churches do so the church can "save their souls." This one happens to be on a larger scale than most. Until and unless he shows Life Church is doing something wrong, he is simply making a malicious, demeaning statement about something without a shred of proof. Now, if there is specific evidence this specific church organization has done something illegal, immoral, detremental to anyone, or without regard to the benefit of society, we can talk.

If he made a similar statement about an ethnic group it would be called racism or bigotry.

Slight........................exaggeration

...bigotry.

its is.

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

The correct use of the term requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animosity toward those of differing devotion.

For those of you who would like to become informed, visit LC's website. They post their financial spreadsheet online for everyone to see, nothing to hide. Call their main office and ask how much they have spent as an organization on missions. Go to services (turn off your offend button) and wear ear-plugs if the music is too loud.

All that being said, there is not a perfect church anywhere in this world. If anybody finds it, please let me know.

It makes me sad to hear that some of you are saying that "it's reasons like this I don't want to give to a charity / church."

I've done video work in Asia and most recently in Haiti, and I can tell you that people NEED what we're able to give. Are there screwy organizations out there that will not handle your money correctly? Absolutely. It's a part of being human. But I can guarantee you that if you give nothing, they receive nothing. We're becoming too cynical of a society. Why not find an organization, an NPO, that gives 100% of funding raised back to where it will be needed (food for children, education for those overseas, etc)?

I hate to be the new guy that everyone will stone, but honestly ... if we just sit here complaining about it and DO nothing, what good have we done?

Why not find an organization, an NPO, that gives 100% of funding raised back to where it will be needed (food for children, education for those overseas, etc)?

Trying to get this thread back on track -The Southern Baptist Disaster Relief Organization (locally go to Home - BGCO.org (http://www.bgco.org), then ministries, then Disaster Relief) uses 100% of every dollar given for actual disaster relief efforts. Salaries for the very few paid members of the organization are provided by the Southern Baptist Convention cooperative program, where almost Southern Baptist churches give a small percentage of thier receipts to the national convention.

It just shows that anyone who gives money to a charity should check into the charity. Feed the Children was once a wonderful organization but apparently has just self destructed. Monitoring groups at websites such as http://www.charitywatch.org can help.

That's excellent advice, mugofbeer. FTC has been rated F for many years by philanthropy watchdog orgs. There are good charities out there, people should check out the charity's ratings before giving.

Anymore, I only give to my local church's pantry for the needy...that way I know the stuff I contribute goes directly to someone who needs it.

Let's add another to the list and this one with Jesus in the name...Love the 50% raise the old lady gave herself...Seems to be doin a helluva job

http://newsok.com/jesus-house-in-oklahoma-city-falls-under-
scrutiny/article/3483402

An examination of documents the Jesus House filed with the IRS reveals Janis Mercer was paid $154,295 in 2008 — a $52,372 increase over the $101,923 she reported being paid the previous year. She also received a $46,000 "salary advance" in 2008, documents reveal.
Two other employees joined Janis Mercer in receiving 2008 salary advances. Office manager Marilyn Young was listed as receiving a $20,000 advance, and accountant Barbara Lewis was listed as receiving a $1,000 advance.
Janis Mercer's salary increase and the salary advances came during a year when donations to the Jesus House dropped 25 percent — from $1,619,833 in 2007 to $1,210,903 in 2008. The Jesus House spent more than $200,000 more than it took in that year.
There are questions about whether the raise and salary advances were properly authorized by the board of directors, or whether there even was a board at the time.