View Full Version : Lotus in Bricktown closed



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Patrick
01-11-2005, 12:22 AM
Well, downtownguy predicted right! Lotus is history! Unfortunately, the sales news isn't good for Bricktown, at least for this merchant.

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"Bricktown eatery falls after trying battle: Vendor lawsuit spurs closing
by Heidi R. Centrella
The Journal Record
1/11/2005



Staff and owners of Lotus Steaks Sushi and Seafood served their last supper Monday. Bill Tackett, Lotus co-owner, said the two-year-old restaurant closed after Arvest Bank decided not to hold the note.
The restaurant has experienced a 24 percent growth rate over this time last year. Still, Tackett said, they never hit their target sales for this market.

Tackett said his equipment vendor, to whom he owed a debt, changed hands. The new vendor, unaware of the repayment plan Tackett had with the original vendor, sued Lotus owners and their banks.

"They tried to negotiate with us some, but as a group of owners, we were unwilling to go the way that they wanted originally," Tackett said. "And then they sued."

Around the same time, Arvest Bank acquired the equipment note. Bank officials then decided not to hold the note, which resulted in Lotus closing its doors.

"We (Tackett and co-owner Kevin Crysler) had our whole lives in the restaurant - emotionally, financially, knowledge-wise, everything," Tackett said. "It was an unfortunate situation.

"They have their standard of performance, and I guess we didn't meet up to that expectation," he said. "As I said, we've never missed a payment - ever, ever."

Arvest Vice President and Sales Manager Becky Franklin said privacy issues would not allow her to comment on a customer's business.

Tackett said he and Crysler have made every attempt to place their 45 employees with other restaurateurs. He said the reason the restaurant stayed open an extra week was because all five of the owners wanted to make sure that all of the employees were paid.

"That's the bottom line," he said. "They're my family. I raised them. All five partners were insistent that our people were taken care of. That shows the character of the men who put this together.

"To the patrons, Kevin and I want them to know that we have so deeply appreciated the opportunity to have them in our home," Tackett said. "This is our house, our home."

Luke
01-11-2005, 04:30 AM
Sad. Really sad. This was a great restaurant.

Midtowner
01-11-2005, 06:48 AM
They had wonderful steaks and sushi. I think the sushi was what killed them though. So many Oklahomans are afraid of the stuff for some reason.

mranderson
01-11-2005, 07:25 AM
They had wonderful steaks and sushi. I think the sushi was what killed them though. So many Oklahomans are afraid of the stuff for some reason.
Affraid? I think not. Try the fact it is raw fish. YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Floating_adrift
01-11-2005, 07:26 AM
I'm all about trying new things, and I tried really hard to like sushi. I've been to sushi restaurants a dozen times or so trying to aquire the taste, but I guess I just never 'got it'. It just doesn't have any flavor to me. For the money, I'd much rather have Steak Gorgonzola or something... :D

Midtowner
01-11-2005, 07:50 AM
Affraid? I think not. Try the fact it is raw fish. YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess age and experience don't equate to an open mind. I could understand someone trying it an not liking it (like Floating Adrift), but not liking it 'just because'?

Actually, a lot of sushi just consists of vegetables and rice wrapped in seaweed, like California rolls. Often, the fish will be cooked, for example, you'll never see raw shrimp on a sushi roll but when it's not, you can rest assured, it's safe.

The taste of sushi is what I'd best describe as very different from any western cuisine. Probably more different than anything I've had (and I've had a lot). The flavors are new and unfamiliar. I guess new and unfamiliar is something that Oklahomans don't get much of.

mranderson
01-11-2005, 07:56 AM
I guess age and experience don't equate to an open mind. I could understand someone trying it an not liking it (like Floating Adrift), but not liking it 'just because'?

Actually, a lot of sushi just consists of vegetables and rice wrapped in seaweed, like California rolls. Often, the fish will be cooked, for example, you'll never see raw shrimp on a sushi roll but when it's not, you can rest assured, it's safe.

The taste of sushi is what I'd best describe as very different from any western cuisine. Probably more different than anything I've had (and I've had a lot). The flavors are new and unfamiliar. I guess new and unfamiliar is something that Oklahomans don't get much of.
"Just because?" That is not a reason. That is hiding the truth. PErsonally, I will NOT eat sushi because I can not stomach the thought of eating raw fish. It may have other things, however, it is still raw fish.

Midtowner
01-11-2005, 08:08 AM
"Just because?" That is not a reason. That is hiding the truth. PErsonally, I will NOT eat sushi because I can not stomach the thought of eating raw fish. It may have other things, however, it is still raw fish.

Actually, truth be told, "Sushi" does not ever contain raw fish. If it did, it would be called "Sashimi".

Go to a sushi bar sometime, you'll quickly note that there are plenty of dishes that don't involve raw fish. It's a common misconception though.

So literally speaking, if you don't like sushi because it contains raw fish, it's like not liking tea because it's coffee. In other words, "Just because".

Floating_adrift
01-11-2005, 08:28 AM
I always get Sushi and Sashimi twisted - it's the raw fish I couldn't develop a taste for. It wasn't that I didn't like it, it just didn't have any flavor. Except Sea Urchin and Salmon Roe, both of which made me kinda wanna spit it back out. :D

So I guess it's the Sashimi I don't care for. I dig california rolls and stuff. And the wasabi feels like it opens a hole in my head everytime I eat it, but for some reason I keep going back for more!

Midtowner
01-11-2005, 08:34 AM
I always get Sushi and Sashimi twisted - it's the raw fish I couldn't develop a taste for. It wasn't that I didn't like it, it just didn't have any flavor. Except Sea Urchin and Salmon Roe, both of which made me kinda wanna spit it back out. :D

So I guess it's the Sashimi I don't care for. I dig california rolls and stuff. And the wasabi feels like it opens a hole in my head everytime I eat it, but for some reason I keep going back for more!

Wasabi is great. I also like the lotus petals.

Sushi Neko had better food in my opinion anyhow. I haven't been to Musashi's yet, but I hear they're more of a steakhouse anyhow.

I can tell you that the Lotus had excellent steaks though.

swake
01-11-2005, 08:51 AM
I donít think you can say that Sushi is not popular in Oklahoma, itís very popular here in Tulsa. In the Raw on Brookside is always packed, and they have now opened a second location in south Tulsa. Tsunami, Tulsaís downtown sushi place just expanded and is now also opening a south Tulsa location. Fuji near Woodland Hills is the best in town in my opinion and there are others. You can also get sushi at many of the nicer grocery stores. Most of the sushi here is not raw, the fish is usually pickled or cooked, since we are so far from the coasts but itís still good.

okcpulse
01-11-2005, 09:51 AM
I love sushi. It's too bad Lotus in Bricktown had to close. Whether or not sushi is popular in Oklahoma City, Tulsa, or the state is not the issue. Just look at the other sushi bars around Oklahoma City. They have been here for years. And... sushi is also available in Oklahoma City grocery stores. Don't give me that "it's Oklahoma" dance again. The ploy is getting old.

If you pay close attention to the article, it has nothing to do with bad sales. It has more to do with bad decisions made on behalf of the vendors and a bank who decided that a 24 percent sales growth over the previous year was not good enough. I don't like Arvest Bank anyway.

mranderson
01-11-2005, 10:01 AM
I love sushi. It's too bad Lotus in Bricktown had to close. Whether or not sushi is popular in Oklahoma City, Tulsa, or the state is not the issue. Just look at the other sushi bars around Oklahoma City. They have been here for years. And... sushi is also available in Oklahoma City grocery stores. Don't give me that "it's Oklahoma" dance again. The ploy is getting old.

If you pay close attention to the article, it has nothing to do with bad sales. It has more to do with bad decisions made on behalf of the vendors and a bank who decided that a 24 percent sales growth over the previous year was not good enough. I don't like Arvest Bank anyway.
24 percent not being good enough? That is crap. 24 percent is a very high profit margin. I learned several years ago from a man named Joe Leder, who owned Ace Pawn Shop (try contacting him Midtowner if you want proof), that 20 percent was a target range. I tend to believe bad management.

Oh by the way. Arvest seems fine to me... Well, maybe it is because my dad is the largest depositer with their branch by Brookwood Village.

Floating_adrift
01-11-2005, 10:26 AM
24 percent not being good enough? That is crap. 24 percent is a very high profit margin. I learned several years ago from a man named Joe Leder, who owned Ace Pawn Shop (try contacting him Midtowner if you want proof), that 20 percent was a target range. I tend to believe bad management.

Oh by the way. Arvest seems fine to me... Well, maybe it is because my dad is the largest depositer with their branch by Brookwood Village.

Sales growth and profit margin are completely different things! You can have a 100% sales growth and still be losing a lot of money.

Sounds like your dad is a big fella if he's their largest depositor.

metro
01-11-2005, 11:22 AM
Originally Posted by mranderson
"Just because?" That is not a reason. That is hiding the truth. PErsonally, I will NOT eat sushi because I can not stomach the thought of eating raw fish. It may have other things, however, it is still raw fish.


Actually, truth be told, "Sushi" does not ever contain raw fish. If it did, it would be called "Sashimi".

Go to a sushi bar sometime, you'll quickly note that there are plenty of dishes that don't involve raw fish. It's a common misconception though.

So literally speaking, if you don't like sushi because it contains raw fish, it's like not liking tea because it's coffee. In other words, "Just because".

Indeed, this is a common misconception as most sushi is not raw! have you ever tried it? sashimi is also good such as tuna or salmon, you cant hardly even taste it and its probably if not the, one of the most healthy things you can eat. Its sad this business went under even though I think they were overpriced. I new one of the owners but he never came across me in a good way even though I ate there at least once a week and rented it out for parties.

Floating_adrift
01-11-2005, 11:32 AM
sashimi is also good such as tuna or salmon, you cant hardly even taste it and its probably if not the, one of the most healthy things you can eat.


This is why I don't care for it - it feels like your paying top dollar for something that you can hardly taste. Do you eat it for the flavor or the healthful aspects?

Always been curious about this. As I said before I've tried it quite a few times and it just doesn't have much flavor. I've felt that some people I know eat it only because 'all the cool people are doing it' :D "Look at me, I'm eating raw fish and I really like it! (even though I don't really taste anything!)" :P

Midtowner
01-11-2005, 11:34 AM
I love sushi. It's too bad Lotus in Bricktown had to close. Whether or not sushi is popular in Oklahoma City, Tulsa, or the state is not the issue. Just look at the other sushi bars around Oklahoma City. They have been here for years. And... sushi is also available in Oklahoma City grocery stores. Don't give me that "it's Oklahoma" dance again. The ploy is getting old.

If you pay close attention to the article, it has nothing to do with bad sales. It has more to do with bad decisions made on behalf of the vendors and a bank who decided that a 24 percent sales growth over the previous year was not good enough. I don't like Arvest Bank anyway.

With Bricktown, you have to offer a food that can't really be found elsewhere in the city. Folks aren't going to pay $8.00 for parking and then eat when they could eat the same thing closer to home and park for free.

I don't think Lotus did a great job of this. I think they had excellent food, but it wasn't anything to write home about. One thing about Bricktown though, they'll fill the space quickly.

With most bars and restaurants, owners and investors need to be prepared to wait 3 years until they are in the black. I don't recall exactly when Lotus was started, but I don't think it's been quite 3 years yet (maybe 2?)

I'm excited to see who takes that space over though. I'd love for an ESPN Zone to come to Bricktown. I think that'd be a terrific fit.

metro
01-11-2005, 11:38 AM
Floating adrift, I eat it both for the unique tastes and for the amazing healthful aspects, and hey if you dont like spending alot on so little, Lotus had $1.00 sushi sundays, the portions were cut in half, but the price was cheap enough for people who werent sushi fans coulda sample a few and get out of the place less than $5 bucks a person. Someone also mentioned Sushi Neko is better and have not been to Mushashi's. They are the same company and owners. Mushashi's is more a japanese steakhouse and on sundays (the only day Sushi Neko is closed) they bring Neko's sushi chef over for the only day Mushashi's serves sushi.

Floating_adrift
01-11-2005, 11:40 AM
Where are these places? I'll give them a try.

metro
01-11-2005, 11:47 AM
on Western over by the Will Rogers theatre/Wills Cafe, VZD's etc...even if you dont end up liking it, it is important to have diverse cuisines like this so our city can continue to grow both culturally, numerically, and economically

okcpulse
01-11-2005, 12:42 PM
Western Avenue is a real cool area. It's an upscale alternative for Oklahoma City dining, as opposed to Bricktown which has family dining, upscale dining and a number of night clubs. Plus, it's a pretty street.

Patrick
01-11-2005, 04:01 PM
With Bricktown, you have to offer a food that can't really be found elsewhere in the city. Folks aren't going to pay $8.00 for parking and then eat when they could eat the same thing closer to home and park for free.

I don't think Lotus did a great job of this. I think they had excellent food, but it wasn't anything to write home about. One thing about Bricktown though, they'll fill the space quickly.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Chelinos has a location everywhere in the city, but the Bricktown one, where people have to pay to park, still does well. Also, Zios has other locations, one on Meridian in fact, with free parking. But the Zios in Bricktown still does well. Abuelos has another location on Memorial Rd. with free parking, but the one in Bricktown actually does better than the one on Memorial. Coach's has other locations, but the one in Bricktown still does well. Varsity has several other locations, but the one in Bricktown still does well.

I think Lotus was a unqiue restaurant...I think its problem was more with mangement and misunderstanding. Some were driven away because they thought it was just a sushi bar. Others simply didn't know it was there. Lotus didn't advertise much. Still others thought it was a little too pricey. For steak, many probably preferred to go to Mickey Mantle Steakhouse, a lot nicer restaurant in my opinion.


With most bars and restaurants, owners and investors need to be prepared to wait 3 years until they are in the black. I don't recall exactly when Lotus was started, but I don't think it's been quite 3 years yet (maybe 2?)

This is so true. Many businesses locate in Bricktown and don't even think about the long term. The owner of the Laughing Fish Gift shop in Bricktown is pretty intelliegent. When he first opened his store in Bricktown he knew exactly what to expect. He knew that he'd have to make enough to hold him over during the winter months, a time he knew when traffic in Bricktown was down. He had an enitre year's rent and operating expenses saved up before opening....very smart! Even smarter, he opened up stores at Crossroads and Quail Springs, to supplement the losses at the Bricktown store during the winter months.

It seems like the businesses that do best in Bricktown are those have other locations to supplement their Bricktown losses during the winter. Chelinos has many other locations. Laughing Fish has mall locations. Zios has other locations. Abuelos is a nation-wide chain with another location in the metro and locations across the country. Coach's has other locations (the largest being in Norman). Spaghetti Warehouse is a nation-wide chain. Varsity has other locations. Hooters is a nation-wide chain. Nonna's will be successful because she has another location to supplement her Bricktown losses during winter months. Same with Earl's and Marble Slab.

The only restaurant that bucks this trend is Taste of China...they have several locations around the metro, yet their Bricktown location closed. Again though, I wonder if that has to do with unrealistic expectations from the beginning, or just a lack of publicity of their Brictown location. I never really heard a lot about their restaurant after it opened.


I'm excited to see who takes that space over though. I'd love for an ESPN Zone to come to Bricktown. I think that'd be a terrific fit.

I used to be in favor of an ESPN Zone, Hard Rock, etc., but Norm Bekoff, former manager of the OKC Water Taxi operations, not in the Woodlands, TX, changed my mind! He pointed out that there's nothing unique about theme restaurants. They're just another chain restaurant. He's right. Sure, I gues it wouldn't hurt to have a few theme restuarants just to give us some popularity, but I'd rather have local venues like Toby Keith's, Earl's, Coach's, etc. Everytime I go out of town to eat, I always avoid the chain restaurants, and try to find something unique. Why eat at chain restaurants on vacation? It's just the same food everywhere across the country. I'd trade a Hard Rock or ESPN Zone for Toby Keith's Roadhouse any day of the week!

Midtowner
01-11-2005, 06:07 PM
As for chains, I agree.. But they're building an IHOP.

I'm extremely concerned that the lower-end national chains will get a foothold in Bricktown -- the Olive Garden, Chiles, etc. As for 'special' or higher-end things like the ESPN Zone, a location that they'd no doubt broadcast from for OU games, I think there are a few benefits. The free publicity for the riverwalk alone would make ESPN-Zone a good fit -- although, there are already quite a few sports-themed restaurants down there.

HOT ROD
01-11-2005, 10:33 PM
I wanted to chime in here, being that sushi/sashimi is my favourite food and I am part Japanese.

Midtowner and OKCpulse are correct; Most sushi does not contain raw fish.

The term sushi actually refers to the RICE that makes up sushi. Sushi comes in rolls, zushi (a cone shaped roll), thumbnails called nigiri sushi (pronounced nee-gee-lee, the R has an L sound), and other less popular varieties (at least in America).

Sushi rolls (I forget the japanese word momentarily - now I remember, I think it is INARI SUSHI, pronounced EE-NAH-LEE sushi) most often have COOKED fish meat and vegies inside a roll surrounded by seaweed. More expensive varieties have the rice on the outside of the seaweed, with roe or sesame seeds sprinkled on the outside. Popular american sushi rolls are - California Roll (crab meat, avacado, cucumber), Shrimp roll (shrimp salad mixture), Alaska Roll (smoked salmon), and Spider Roll (prawn tempura). MOST Inari Sushi is cooked or vegetarian.

Zushi rolls are a complete cone, unlike the sushi rolls which are sliced (in restaurants). Ingredients are similar but zushi will more often have uncooked fish inside. Popular varieties are spicy tuna and spicy salmon.

Nigiri sushi is probably the most popular IMAGE people have of sushi and why most typical Americans consider sushi to be RAW as it is very similar to sashimi. Nigiri sushi has sliced fish on-top of a thumb sized portion of rice. Nigiri comes in many varieties, with popular ones as SAKE (raw salmon), MAGURO (raw (red) tuna), TAKO (Octopus), TOMAGO (EGG), EBI (cooked shrimp), and AMEBI (uncooked shrimp).

SASHIMI is raw fish fillet, sliced when close to frozen - but served slightly thawed. Take what I said above about Nigiri Sushi and subtract the rice, and you have sashimi! There are endless varieties of sashimi in Japan and large japanese American cities like Vancouver, San Fran, NY, Chi, so on. You have heard of Blowfish, well it is a fish which in large amounts can kill you instantly! But is a delacacy. There is also beef sashimi, but even I am afraid to try that!

ONE MORE NOTE, for those of you who are afraid of raw fish - dont worry. All you have to do is wash the sashimi with WASABI (pronounced WAH-SAH-BEE) - japanese root like horseradish. Follow the following steps:

1) get/ask for a small saucer (usually fine sushi restaurants will automatically give you a small saucer, if not ask for it
2) place some of your wasabi in the saucer
3) slowly add SOY SAUCE over the wasabi as you mash the wasabi, making a paste

WARNING HERE - the thicker the paste, the better it will KILL germs of the raw fish but will be very uncomfortable (HOT/SPICY) in your mouth. Find what you can bear.

4) once you have your paste (should be about a tablespoon size for most dipping saucers), pick up your sashimi slice with your chopsticks and smother it in the wasabi/soy sauce paste.
5) then place it in your mouth, chew, and enjoy

I PROMISE YOU GUYS, TRY this methodology and you WILL ENJOY SASHIMI. Make the same paste for INARI, ZUSHI, and NIGIRI sushis but probably does not need to be as thick.

IF you try this suggestion and still do not like sushi or sashimi, then I guess it is not for you. But trust me, give it a shot. There is nothing to worry about, as long as the restaurant is reputable - their sushi and sashimi will be very nice. Maybe sashimi is not your cup of tea, well try the Inari sushi (see above). Most of it is cooked and can be eaten without additional preparation. California Inari sushi is the most popular and easiest to try.

ONE FINAL WORNING - sashimi tends to be very expensive. Do not go there expecting to GET FULL or anything. It is a treat! A delecacy! Somewhere to take your spouse! I would only go to the all-you-can-eat sushi joints in cities where there are a lot of Japanese Sushi Restaurants as the competition keeps the food fresh and the price very very affordable (see my list of cities above).

Hope that helps,

ARIGATO!

Luke
01-12-2005, 04:38 AM
Interesting read, HOT ROD. Thanks for the info.

metro
01-12-2005, 08:29 AM
HOT ROD, thanks for educating our less palate challenged counterparts, however don't forget about the ginger slices !!!

Midtowner
01-12-2005, 08:49 AM
HOT ROD, I'm now in the mood to visit Sushi Neko. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone that'll man-up and try the stuff.

le sigh.

HOT ROD
01-12-2005, 01:39 PM
HOT ROD, thanks for educating our less palate challenged counterparts, however don't forget about the ginger slices !!!

Oh yes Metro, ginger clarifies the palate. :)

HOT ROD
01-12-2005, 01:39 PM
No problem everyone!

I hope I can help.

Please have fun and ENJOY!

Mmmm :) :)

HOT ROD
01-12-2005, 01:42 PM
Midtowner,

if I were there (or you were here in Seattle), I would go with you.

I would NEVER turn down a visit to a great sushi joint. Sushi/Sashimi (among other ethnic cuisines) is really great once you get the hang of it.

metro
01-12-2005, 02:09 PM
Midtowner, I'm down with some Neko

Floating_adrift
01-12-2005, 02:22 PM
Midtowner,

if I were there (or you were here in Seattle), I would go with you.

I would NEVER turn down a visit to a great sushi joint. Sushi/Sashimi (among other ethnic cuisines) is really great once you get the hang of it.
Seattle.

I wish I was there....

BG918
01-12-2005, 10:21 PM
This is a huge loss for OKC. Lotus was not only a great restaurant with wonderful food and service but it was also a sophisticated place that reminded me (and anyone else I took there) of a bigger city like New York or Chicago. The modern decor and overall vibe inside the restaurant was very hip and made me optimistic about the future of Bricktown and its mix of casual and upscale eateries. I do hope another restaurant, hopefully a sushi bar, opens in this location because it's a great site right on the canal off Oklahoma Ave. with parking in the back. Sushi is my favorite type of food and I'm always hoping OKC can attract more sushi restaurants. How many are currently in the OKC area?

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-12-2005, 10:24 PM
OKC is not quite the fan of exotic food though. Not until we can herd the gays into their "lovely" downtown lofts. Once housing comes, then we should see "specialized" services boom.

Midtowner
01-12-2005, 10:26 PM
OKC is not quite the fan of exotic food though. Not until we can herd the gays into their "lovely" downtown lofts. Once housing comes, then we should see "specialized" services boom.

wha?

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-12-2005, 10:35 PM
See introduction thread.

BG918
01-12-2005, 10:35 PM
Why is it you believe only gays will live in downtown lofts, and are the only ones who enjoy exotic foods?

Midtowner
01-12-2005, 10:40 PM
Why is it you believe only gays will live in downtown lofts, and are the only ones who enjoy exotic foods?

I'm pretty sure he was kidding.

For the record, I do live downtown.. not in a loft. I also enjoy exotic foods and am not gay.

I'm curious as to what "special services" he's referring? Perhaps the need for a downtown bath house? ;)

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-12-2005, 10:46 PM
Why is it you believe only gays will live in downtown lofts, and are the only ones who enjoy exotic foods?


I believe they will leave the Paseo in the dust however. If I did not have a family I would consider downtown myself. But, you can't deny the gay/straight ratio will be higher here than anywhere else in the metro.

BG918
01-12-2005, 10:56 PM
I believe they will leave the Paseo in the dust however. If I did not have a family I would consider downtown myself. But, you can't deny the gay/straight ratio will be higher here than anywhere else in the metro.

Is that really a bad thing? I think downtown will become a popular place for young professionals, gay or straight, who want to live close to their jobs in an urban setting. I doubt gays will ever abandon the Paseo, I actually hope that area sees a revitalization of its own soon.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-12-2005, 11:09 PM
Take it for a grain of salt, but Oklahoma City's gay pop. is really thin. They aren't so numerous, they can keep both strongholds. It is one or the other. If they leave the other, it will become redder. Wherever they go, will become bluer.

Patrick
01-12-2005, 11:37 PM
Let's get back on the topic of Lotus being closed.

Patrick
01-13-2005, 01:14 AM
We had an onslaught of new posts here last night and early this morning by a new poster, so I'm just moving the more recent posts to the front page.

zuluwarrior0760
01-16-2005, 02:37 PM
Lotus had a lot of problems, although a lot of great ideas as well.
Their sushi I thought was second to none in OKC....
Their other food was hit and miss but the steaks were great. When
they originally opened they committed two restaurant sins:
they built and equipped in a hurry because they had to get up and running
in like 6 weeks from inception. They also created a HUGE menu initially and
eventually had to scale it back. Finally, the big strike against them is that
they opened I believe toward the center of the off season in bricktown and that
was before bass pro and Harkins..... etc....
I thought they did a stellar job at designing the place....the paintings from various
artists was a welcome departure and the lighting was particularly stunning....all
the colored effects were not to be seen anywhere outside of NYC or Chicago although
now I've seen a few others try to copy that.....

I think they just got in over their heads, leaving little for advertising, although they tried....
I know both owners of this place, and it saddens me to see it go under.....
I think if I was to peg anything as a reason, it would be "identity crisis".....they never
really communicated what it was they served.....the name Lotus implied Chineese, the
Sushi thing didn't help either......
As cheesy as I thought their original choice in name was, it might have given people
a better look at their steak,chicken capabilities.....they were going to originally name the
joint "Rawhide"......

I hope something can be done to bring this place back........

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-16-2005, 05:32 PM
What needs to happen is more upscale national chains. We have already discussed a Cheesecake Factory, Bennigan's, Zuchini's, etc, maybe a Fox Sports Grill... national stores with enough corporate revenue to sustain them through the slower winter months, so they can make the big bucks in spring, summer and fall. In time I would like to see a a galleria development in Bricktown, maybe just a few blocks destined as a fine shopping district.

Midtowner
01-16-2005, 06:26 PM
What needs to happen is more upscale national chains. We have already discussed a Cheesecake Factory, Bennigan's, Zuchini's, etc, maybe a Fox Sports Grill... national stores with enough corporate revenue to sustain them through the slower winter months, so they can make the big bucks in spring, summer and fall. In time I would like to see a a galleria development in Bricktown, maybe just a few blocks destined as a fine shopping district.

Three words as to what would make a killing in Bricktown: Dave & Busters.

If you're unfamiliar, it's a pretty nice restaurant, serves a wide variety of foods, but is best known for its arcade (with a full service bar).

mranderson
01-16-2005, 07:01 PM
Three words as to what would make a killing in Bricktown: Dave & Busters.

If you're unfamiliar, it's a pretty nice restaurant, serves a wide variety of foods, but is best known for its arcade (with a full service bar).
Personally, i will pass. To much like Dallas. Plus, I have been to theirs. BORING!

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-16-2005, 07:37 PM
Are you kidding me? Oklahoma City is actually quite simillar to Dallas, right down to the rankings. Incase you haven't heard, OKC is America's 8 th hottest city, Dallas is the 9th. Dallas is known for sprawl, OKC is the nations 3rd largest city. Look at highways in Moore, Yukon, Norman and all around the metro, and Memorial Road reminds of the Stemmons. They have Deep Ellum, We have Bricktown, ten thousand times betetr IMHO.

zuluwarrior0760
01-16-2005, 08:16 PM
I think a bunch of national chains in Bricktown would be the worst thing
that could happen........I cringe at the thought of an IHOP wasting
space in Bricktown.....
Bricktown should be able to maintain it's "can't get it anywhere else"
flavor.....
I'm not saying a few would have a negative impact, but if we're not
careful, the "national chains" that the previous poster said had more
money to get them thru the winter, may just singlehandledly turn
our beloved Bricktown into one giant stripmall.....these types of
districts should maintain a proprietary element of uniqueness.....or
all the business there will suffer.....mostly because when people
think of "what do we want to eat in bricktown".....they either go
or stay.........if I ran down a mental list of cracker barrel, ihop, bennigans,
applebees etc etc.......I think I'd just stay in Edmond or Norman where
I can drive less, pay less to park.......and there won't be a wait.....I mean
afterall, if the food's the same.................
I love Bricktown......I hope it stays unique and doesn't become one
big ass mall food court.......
Lotus met the criteria of "different" and the loss will be felt....I just really
hope a Marie Callendars Salad Bar doesn't take it's space.........

mranderson
01-16-2005, 08:42 PM
Are you kidding me? Oklahoma City is actually quite simillar to Dallas, right down to the rankings. Incase you haven't heard, OKC is America's 8 th hottest city, Dallas is the 9th. Dallas is known for sprawl, OKC is the nations 3rd largest city. Look at highways in Moore, Yukon, Norman and all around the metro, and Memorial Road reminds of the Stemmons. They have Deep Ellum, We have Bricktown, ten thousand times betetr IMHO.
I guess the one thing you have not learned yet is the fact i can not stand Dallas. I was there for eight years and found it a sess pool. I want this city to not be a Texas what to be.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-16-2005, 08:43 PM
I think a bunch of national chains in Bricktown would be the worst thing that could happen

Than you don't believe in financial stability and feasibility.


A combination of national chains and local stores is what Bicktown needs. Don't forget... I did mention upscale- meaning stores differant from Applebess and IHOP (Bricktown? Gimme a break.) but more like Cheesecake Factory, unique, upscale. What would you say to chains like Talbots and Banana Republic? We could model this after Downtown Santa Fe (albeit architecture), for those who have been. A mix of local and national, but don't forget, we have a canal! A ballpark! A skyline! And more! Santa Fe, and San Antone do not!


OKC will always be unique... earlier we had a conflct over whether it was Southern, Western, or Midwestern. I think OKC is a mix between Tulsa and Dallas. I don't really hold Dallas in the highest regard, but I have the utmost respect for Tulsa.

floater
01-17-2005, 12:15 PM
They have Deep Ellum, We have Bricktown, ten thousand times betetr IMHO.

To be nitpicky, West End is a better comparison for Bricktown - the bricked warehouse touristy entertainment district. Granted, Deep Ellum compares to a SECTION of Bricktown - the eastern side on Sheridan - but it cannot compare by itself. That's something to be said about Bricktown - it's multifaceted. You have the apple pie elements (baseball), the fine dining elements (Mantel and Nonna's), the casual dining places (Chelinos, Crabtown), and the fast food (Sonic) for downtown workers. You have a ride and movies, and (albeit limited) retail.

metro
01-17-2005, 12:27 PM
Exactly floater, you hit it right on. It compares more to West End than Deep Ellum. West End also has more casual places, chain places, upscale, etc.. although we have a ballpark, theater and a river......it will be nice to watch us evolve

Patrick
01-17-2005, 01:44 PM
Than you don't believe in financial stability and feasibility.

Some chains are okay, just not a lot. You want to make Bricktown a unique location for tourists, not a typical run of the mills restaurant area. Restaurants like Bricktown Brewery, Nona's, Chelino's, Coach's, Daquiri Zone, Mickey Mantle Steakhouse, etc. set Bricktown apart.


A combination of national chains and local stores is what Bicktown needs. Don't forget... I did mention upscale- meaning stores differant from Applebess and IHOP (Bricktown? Gimme a break.) but more like Cheesecake Factory, unique, upscale. What would you say to chains like Talbots and Banana Republic? We could model this after Downtown Santa Fe (albeit architecture), for those who have been. A mix of local and national, but don't forget, we have a canal! A ballpark! A skyline! And more! Santa Fe, and San Antone do not!

I agree with you Sooner&RiceGrad! A mix is the best developing scheme. UPSCALE Chains like Cheesecake Factory attract some people, but local stores/restaurants give the district local flavor.


OKC will always be unique... earlier we had a conflct over whether it was Southern, Western, or Midwestern. I think OKC is a mix between Tulsa and Dallas. I don't really hold Dallas in the highest regard, but I have the utmost respect for Tulsa.

Saying OKC is a mix between Tulsa and Dallas is right on. I don't think we have the class or creativity Tulsa does, but we're not stale and hum drum like Dallas (yup, much of Dallas isn't unique...it's jsut like any typical large city).

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-17-2005, 02:32 PM
Well... if we wanted to become like Tulsa (I do) I would begin instating measures to assure that more wealthy citizens can move in and prosper. Of course, Tulsa is in dire straights providing their large upper class with jobs though...

I think Dallas isn't too bad. It's great for shopping, I think that the northeast side can be pretty... annoying. The Fort Worth side is O.K. It gets better further out to the west, by Azle and Lake Worth.

Patrick
01-17-2005, 04:31 PM
I think the key to getting wealthier people in our city is attracting high paying jobs by going after big corporations. If we could get an out of state company to locate its headquarters here that would be huge.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-17-2005, 04:39 PM
Or if we can grow more corporate giants out of local companies. Maybe Devon will get a lot bigger, aren't they growing pretty fast? I also think that the Research Park holds a lot of potential. Maybe the St. Anthony deal will give us a big health center.

Patrick
01-17-2005, 04:43 PM
Devon is already the largest onshore private oil company. But it continues to grow.
Hobby Lobby is continuing to grow, but there aren't a lot of high end executive positions in that company.

I still think landing an outside major corporation would be huge. Could you imagine having the IBM HQ in OKC, or something like that?

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-17-2005, 04:45 PM
IBM, is a high tech company, and Houston or Silicon Valley are perfect for them.

zuluwarrior0760
01-17-2005, 05:17 PM
I would say the exception to my prohibition of chains in Bricktown would
be Cheesecake Factory.....but I really don't think of that as a chain "yet"....
point is it would be unique enough at least that people in Norman, Edmond and
Yukon wouldn't have one in their backyard.....same can't be said for IHOP...
Hell yeah, I believe in financial stability, but mark my word: if 10 well known chains
move into Bricktown beyond the local chains that already have......you could have
the overall reputation of the district falter into being known as a cheesy "nothin special"
place to go eat versus a proprietary, must come here to get it type of venue.....
As far as financial feasibility, restaurants must diversify like Nonna's......catering to the
gift shop clientele, as well as meeting space.....etc....Nonna's will knock all others
off the charts in time......the place is absolutely stunning on the inside.....and the food
is just as great....