View Full Version : High-speed rail to link Tulsa\OKC\Dallas and more...



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ou48A
04-09-2013, 12:47 PM
Serious question - do you know how inane your post reads?

On edit, try not take offense to that but nothing in your comment is even founded in reality (except that OU does have thousands of residents).
You really need to take a long look at the practicality of your thoughts. Because on transportation very few seem to be up to date and practical to modern Norman.

ou48A
04-09-2013, 12:48 PM
Lol! I lived in Iraq. Oddly, they are able to build walkable places. Are you saying our weather is worst than theirs?

They don’t have nearly as many severe thunder storms with lighting. They don’t have nearly as much extreme cold & wet weather. Yes Iraq is very hot and dusty but most of all best of luck on getting our OKC area culture to lower its self to their standards of life.

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 12:51 PM
You really need to take a long look at the practicality of your thoughts. Because on transportation very few seem to be up to date and practical to modern Norman.

Please. Don't you have a Mega-bus to catch?

ou48A
04-09-2013, 12:57 PM
The human body can acclimate to 100 or to 30 if the weather is close to that most of the time.
There were times last summer when 95 seemed like a pretty cool day when in fact we will probably be roasting on our first 95 degree day this year.

We have some of the world’s most changeable weather on the Great Plains and that makes getting acclimated more difficult.
This fact about our changeable weather makes walkability a more difficult problem than in many other big city locations.

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 01:04 PM
I see, OKC is the only place on the planet where wind, heat, cold, rain, thunder, lightning, sunshine, earthquakes, tornados, cloudless days, and alien abductions exist in the right proportions to make walkability impossible. And this whole time I thought it only took a point of origin and a destination within close proximity to each connected by a safe and inviting path.

ou48A
04-09-2013, 01:08 PM
I see, OKC is the only place on the planet where wind, heat, cold, rain, thunder, lightning, sunshine, earthquakes, tornados, cloudless days, and alien abductions exist in the right proportions to make walkability impossible. And this whole time I thought it only took a point of origin and a destination within close proximity to each connected by a safe and inviting path.

You can’t expect to see OKC any more walkable than Dallas, Denver or KC and they are not very walkable when compared to most modern coastal cities with their less changeable weather.

hoya
04-09-2013, 01:09 PM
Most of the time I find our weather very nice as long as you dress appropriately. I consider it "too hot to go outside" maybe two weeks out of the year. Even then, true walkable neighborhoods don't require you to hike very far.

High speed rail would be a huge boon to OKC, because we're a central location. You wouldn't have to worry about airlines eliminating routes or you not being able to get a direct flight somewhere. We'd be on a permanent passenger-heavy rail line. Maybe a lot of the Chicago to Dallas crowd just stays on the train, but if we have a fun, walkable area where the station is, enough of them will get off to eat dinner, have some entertainment, and see the city. If there's just a big parking lot there, nobody will get off the train.

ou48A
04-09-2013, 01:12 PM
Please. Don't you have a Mega-bus to catch?
Don’t you have train to dreamland to catch?:o

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 01:15 PM
You can’t expect to see OKC any more walkable than Dallas, Denver or KC...

Sure I can. In fact, I just did. Alas, it would be easier if you helped out though.

hoya
04-09-2013, 01:19 PM
In the heat of the summer people still go to Frontier City. Frontier City is a very walkable environment. There are shops and rides and restaurants and it's easy to get from one place to the other.

Now, there are some days, a handful a year, when it's probably not safe for people to be out and about. On those 4 or 5 days a year, when it actually is 112 degrees, people will stay home. Likewise on that small handful of winter days when there's an ice storm or it's 7 degrees outside, people will stay home. But Oklahoma has 300+ days of weather every year where it's nice enough that we can go out and enjoy ourselves. A walkable neighborhood means you actually have to travel less, because everything is nearby.

ou48A
04-09-2013, 01:28 PM
Well… how far is everyday walkable for almost everything you need for busy people with kids in almost all weather?
There may be a difference of opinion.
For me personally it’s close to 2000’

Jersey Boss
04-09-2013, 01:31 PM
Don’t you have train to dreamland to catch?:o

Uninspired, unimaginative, unfunny. You sir, hit the trifecta.

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 01:35 PM
Well… how far is everyday walkable for almost everything you need for busy people with kids in almost all weather?
There may be a difference of opinion.
For me personally it’s close to 2000’

The typical pedestrian shed is considered to be a radius of a 5 minute walk, about 1/4 mile. However, there is a long pedestrian shed that is high as a 10 minute walk if it is centered on a mass transit stop.

hoya
04-09-2013, 01:44 PM
Well… how far is everyday walkable for almost everything you need for busy people with kids in almost all weather?
There may be a difference of opinion.
For me personally it’s close to 2000’

I can't believe you are seriously arguing against having walkable neighborhoods. That's like arguing against pretty girls with large breasts. You don't have to like them but at least understand that the rest of us do.

In this context, a walkable neighborhood has shops, housing, restaurants and hotels within sight of the train station. You walk 2 blocks and there is a restaurant. You walk another and you're at a hotel. A 5 to 10 minute walk on nice sidewalks, in a safe and comfortable urban environment, with slow traffic speeds so pedestrians can feel comfortable.

What that means is that we don't have a train station surrounded by 20 acres of parking lot. Instead you could have a dozen mid-rise buildings in that area, 5-10 stories tall, with shops and cafes and fun things to do. And then you put a parking garage for the people who are going to use the train, and you put it somewhere unobtrusive where it doesn't get in the way of the nice stuff.

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 01:57 PM
Here is the deal - and the reason I am a New Urbansit. We simple can't afford to keep building the way we have been building. I don't want to pay the tax rate it is going to require to maintain what we already built, let along keep funding even more expansion. Our previous generations were able to build quality residential and commercial areas without having to break the bank. Most of what we consider good urbanism was built prior to the era of easy money so they had to build what the knew worked and that kept maintenance cost down. They had to build things to last and endure. The money became easy to get and so we spent like money didn't matter, because for the most part it didn't. Now we have to borrow from people 20 years now so we can repave a road today. In what world does that make sense or sound like a good idea?

I don't know, maybe some people do want to pay those tax rates - but I'm not one of them. There are other things I would rather spend my money on and let people 20 years from spend their own money. This is one place my fellow TeaParty friends really don't get it. They want government to live within its means, but then choose a lifestyle that requires massive government subsidies to keep it going.

Remember the scene from Willy Wonka where Mike gets shrunk down to 1/20 his size by removing all the empty space between his molecules. I view urbanism as the same thing. All the things you love (or hate in the case of Mike) but with 1/20 the size and cost - just by getting rid of the empty space.

ou48A
04-09-2013, 02:25 PM
I can't believe you are seriously arguing against having walkable neighborhoods.

Please show me where I said I was against walkable neighborhoods?

The fact is that where they are practical I’m for them but there are limits to their practicality.
.
Contrary to what Just the facts says the downtown Norman area doesn’t come close to having a large enough walkable population (either working their or living their) to warrant a commuter rail stop. He has been told this fact over and over. The experts who have studied this issue at great depth do not support putting a commuter train stop in downtown Norman. And it is simply not practical to grow downtown Norman enough to ever warrant a commuter rail stop. A bus will do just fine.

ou48A
04-09-2013, 02:32 PM
In this context, a walkable neighborhood has shops, housing, restaurants and hotels within sight of the train station. You walk 2 blocks and there is a restaurant. You walk another and you're at a hotel. A 5 to 10 minute walk on nice sidewalks, in a safe and comfortable urban environment, with slow traffic speeds so pedestrians can feel comfortable.

What that means is that we don't have a train station surrounded by 20 acres of parking lot. Instead you could have a dozen mid-rise buildings in that area, 5-10 stories tall, with shops and cafes and fun things to do. And then you put a parking garage for the people who are going to use the train, and you put it somewhere unobtrusive where it doesn't get in the way of the nice stuff.

Nothing wrong with these thoughts^ but it’s not going to happen in downtown Norman.
In Norman it’s far more likely to happen somewhere close to OU or spring up from scratch near a large park and ride just like it has in other city’s. I could see how your concept would probably work well in downtown OKC.

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 02:35 PM
That is because the 'experts' and I have 2 different agendas. I am trying to build sustainable neighborhood based urbanism, they are trying to make sprawl tolerable. Thus, the reason I cited the DART articles linked to earlier as to why building park and ride lots hoping sustainable urbanism takes hold doesn't work like the 'experts' think and why Plano is considering opting out of DART.

ou48A
04-09-2013, 02:46 PM
That is because the 'experts' and I have 2 different agendas. I am trying to build sustainable neighborhood based urbanism, they are trying to make sprawl tolerable. Thus, the reason I cited the DART articles linked to earlier as to why building park and ride lots hoping sustainable urbanism takes hold doesn't work like the 'experts' think and why Plano is considering opting out of DART.


So you think the tens of thousands of people who live on or very near OU campus are less sustainable than the few hundred who live and work in downtown Norman in buildings that are in many cases in serious need of repair.
That’s what you are saying by wanting a commuter rail station in Downtown Norman.

BoulderSooner
04-09-2013, 03:34 PM
Right.

Yes right. There is a big difference between walking because you have little or no choice and walking because of how something is built

Plutonic Panda
04-09-2013, 03:41 PM
It also rains 300 days of the year in Seattle... And boy is it walkable.I think you were missing my point of the post I made. I'm actually agreeing with you, with the exception of the weather in the midwest. I think weather really isn't a factor. There are TONS of walkable, urban cities in other environments that have extreme heat or cold, I do understand. I just noticed people here just will find any little excuse not to walk.

BTW, I can also, agree with OU about our rapidly changing weather, it is pretty extreme sometimes and I can get on board with this. however, I don't see any reason why we couldn't make downtown more walkable, I just see OKC primarily being a suburban city, except for it's core area. I think more tunnels and sky bridges would be better downtown.

Plutonic Panda
04-09-2013, 03:46 PM
The typical pedestrian shed is considered to be a radius of a 5 minute walk, about 1/4 mile. However, there is a long pedestrian shed that is high as a 10 minute walk if it is centered on a mass transit stop.What is a pedestrian shed?

ou48A
04-09-2013, 04:18 PM
I think you were missing my point of the post I made. I'm actually agreeing with you, with the exception of the weather in the midwest. I think weather really isn't a factor. There are TONS of walkable, urban cities in other environments that have extreme heat or cold, I do understand. I just noticed people here just will find any little excuse not to walk.

BTW, I can also, agree with OU about our rapidly changing weather, it is pretty extreme sometimes and I can get on board with this. however, I don't see any reason why we couldn't make downtown more walkable, I just see OKC primarily being a suburban city, except for it's core area. I think more tunnels and sky bridges would be better downtown.

NWS Norman‏@NWSNorman1h
Parts of Oklahoma are 50-60 degrees colder than they were at this time yesterday!
#okwx pic.twitter.com/6fRLMa64M9

https://twitter.com/NWSNorman

catch22
04-09-2013, 05:56 PM
NWS Norman‏@NWSNorman1h
Parts of Oklahoma are 50-60 degrees colder than they were at this time yesterday!
#okwx pic.twitter.com/6fRLMa64M9

https://twitter.com/NWSNorman

Means tomorrow morning I will wear appropriate attire and be relatively comfortable.

I don't have to wear my shorts and t-shirt tomorrow because I did yesterday (today).

catch22
04-09-2013, 06:01 PM
Yes right. There is a big difference between walking because you have little or no choice and walking because of how something is built

This is one of those areas we disagree. :)

Chicago has similar weather patterns as we do.

Intense hot summers, intense cold winters. Severe thunderstorms, severe weather events.

But people find a way to walk up there?

Seattle is really really wet and cold for most of the year. Yet Sid survived the streets up there.

I agree that extreme temperatures do limit walking but they don't eliminate it all together if the infrastructure (urban fabric) is in place for it to happen.

BoulderSooner
04-09-2013, 06:44 PM
This is one of those areas we disagree. :)

Chicago has similar weather patterns as we do.

Intense hot summers, intense cold winters. Severe thunderstorms, severe weather events.

But people find a way to walk up there?

Seattle is really really wet and cold for most of the year. Yet Sid survived the streets up there.

I agree that extreme temperatures do limit walking but they don't eliminate it all together if the infrastructure (urban fabric) is in place for it to happen.


I wasn't talking about weather. I was talking about iraq

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 07:00 PM
What is a pedestrian shed?

A pedestrian shed is generally defined as a circle with a 1/4 mile radius (5 minute walk) centered around a commercial zone that can provide all the needs of daily life. If the commerical zone includes a mass transit stop then the size is expanded to 1/2 mile as studies show most people will walk 10 minutes to a mass transit stop.

I'll look through some of my stuff to see if I can find a more indepth explination and post it for you in the New Urbanism Library thread.

Plutonic Panda
04-09-2013, 09:36 PM
Oh, ok thanks a bunch. Very interesting!

hoya
04-10-2013, 09:38 AM
Please show me where I said I was against walkable neighborhoods?

The fact is that where they are practical Iím for them but there are limits to their practicality.
.
Contrary to what Just the facts says the downtown Norman area doesnít come close to having a large enough walkable population (either working their or living their) to warrant a commuter rail stop. He has been told this fact over and over. The experts who have studied this issue at great depth do not support putting a commuter train stop in downtown Norman. And it is simply not practical to grow downtown Norman enough to ever warrant a commuter rail stop. A bus will do just fine.


Nothing wrong with these thoughts^ but itís not going to happen in downtown Norman.
In Norman itís far more likely to happen somewhere close to OU or spring up from scratch near a large park and ride just like it has in other cityís. I could see how your concept would probably work well in downtown OKC.

Well I wasn't talking about downtown Norman. I read your response as being about Oklahoma in general. The other thing you have to take into consideration is that we aren't just looking at how a neighborhood exists today. We also must look at how it will exist in 10, 20 years. Downtown Norman may not have a lot of people living in it relative to other parts. But if you're looking at putting a high speed rail stop there, you will change the market in that area. A high speed rail stop and 10 years of development may result in a lot more people living there.

ou48A
04-10-2013, 12:32 PM
Well I wasn't talking about downtown Norman. I read your response as being about Oklahoma in general. The other thing you have to take into consideration is that we aren't just looking at how a neighborhood exists today. We also must look at how it will exist in 10, 20 years. Downtown Norman may not have a lot of people living in it relative to other parts. But if you're looking at putting a high speed rail stop there, you will change the market in that area. A high speed rail stop and 10 years of development may result in a lot more people living there.


What a lot of people don’t seem to know is that downtown Norman doesn’t have a lot of space to grow without knocking buildings down and many of the existing are very old and are not in good repair. Right now very few people could live in downtown Norman. You would have to spend billions to nearly totally reinvent downtown Norman.

If a high speed rail stop was built at OU you would see a lot of economic development pop up nearby. There are dozens of old mostly dilapidated houses and buildings that could be removed to make way for more densely populated development.

With facility, staff and students there are thousands of commuters to OU each day. There are often several academic, social, and athletic events each day that also attract thousands to OU. There are also many visitors who come to OU on collaboration research missions. As it is, in 20 years the OU area of Norman will be far more densely populated than it is now.

I’m sure these are a few of the reasons why the experts have said the OU will have a commuter rail stop. They are the same reasons why a high speed rail stop should be at OU’s new intermodal station.

ljbab728
04-10-2013, 11:03 PM
What a lot of people donít seem to know is that downtown Norman doesnít have a lot of space to grow without knocking buildings down and many of the existing are very old and are not in good repair. Right now very few people could live in downtown Norman. You would have to spend billions to nearly totally reinvent downtown Norman.


I don't think anyone has been talking about reinventing downtown just developing it's full potential. But billions? LOL
This is hardly downtown OKC we're talking about here.

(And what does many buildings being old and in need of repairs have to do with anything?)

ou48A
04-11-2013, 10:34 AM
I don't think anyone has been talking about reinventing downtown just developing it's full potential. But billions? LOL
This is hardly downtown OKC we're talking about here.

(And what does many buildings being old and in need of repairs have to do with anything?)

To justify a downtown Norman stop the population of that area would need to be much greater than it is now… and that’s not physically possible in its current state. To justify a stop many building would need to be replaced with much larger structures, others would need remolded along with new utilities and parking garages and so on. This would likely run into the billions. If some of this money should be spent near OU where the density of population is already far greater and will only grow particularly with further development.

LOL/ LOL… The old buildings that need repairs don’t have the ability to safely handle the numbers of people that would justify a regular downtown Norman stop. In many cases it would probably be cheaper to knock them down a start over. It’s really pretty simple to understand.

venture
04-11-2013, 11:58 AM
So knocking down buildings by OU or knocking them down in Downtown. Exactly where is the difference in this? LOL

As far as ...


There are dozens of old mostly dilapidated houses and buildings that could be removed to make way for more densely populated development..

Granted they may not be as fancy as your house tucked away up there in NW Norman, but they aren't "mostly dilapidated". They are typical renter homes near a college campus. I don't disagree with the benefits of having the rail stop near campus instead of downtown, but the situation is by OU you have the park at the Duck Pond that would be sacrificed for the facility. All around there is just more room there for a new facility.

Downtown you would be looking at knocking down a couple buildings tops along James Garner to make room for a new facility. Then tie it in with CART to campus.

Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.

CaptDave
04-11-2013, 12:07 PM
Is discussing Norman for a HSR stop even relevant? I think commuter rail is definitely in the future but I doubt HSR would stop in Norman. Catch the commuter line to OKC, then jump on HSR to TX or wherever.

ou48A
04-11-2013, 12:26 PM
So knocking down buildings by OU or knocking them down in Downtown. Exactly where is the difference in this? LOL

As far as ...



Granted they may not be as fancy as your house tucked away up there in NW Norman, but they aren't "mostly dilapidated". They are typical renter homes near a college campus. I don't disagree with the benefits of having the rail stop near campus instead of downtown, but the situation is by OU you have the park at the Duck Pond that would be sacrificed for the facility. All around there is just more room there for a new facility.

Downtown you would be looking at knocking down a couple buildings tops along James Garner to make room for a new facility. Then tie it in with CART to campus.

Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other.

You and others preach density all the time…. building near OU makes a denser location even denser.


The typical renter home near OU’s camp needs to be torn down, that is if you really do want denser nicer areas to develop that will attract even more dense development.

I have been told by a supervisor who works in the transit department that the OU intermodal station will be located in the parking lot on the NW side of the duck pond…. That would not bother the duck pond too much, but its needs a massive overhaul anyway.
To build the density necessary to justify a downtown Norman stop many more than 2 building would need to be knocked down and rebuilt.

ou48A
04-11-2013, 12:31 PM
Is discussing Norman for a HSR stop even relevant? I think commuter rail is definitely in the future but I doubt HSR would stop in Norman. Catch the commuter line to OKC, then jump on HSR to TX or wherever.



If high-speed rail is built south though the Norman area, the 3 largest city in Oklahoma, that is the destination of many out of town visitors, there will be train station stop near OU or high speed rail just simply will never be built south of OKC at any time.

Any thought of it not stopping in Norman is not realistic.
Not stopping in Norman will never be politically possible in this state for high- speed rail.

venture
04-11-2013, 12:40 PM
Is discussing Norman for a HSR stop even relevant? I think commuter rail is definitely in the future but I doubt HSR would stop in Norman. Catch the commuter line to OKC, then jump on HSR to TX or wherever.

Dave I agree. It'll pass through Norman, but stopping is another question. Is it worth it to stop in Norman and delay the OKC arrival by 20-30 minutes if not more.


You and others preach density all the time…. building near OU makes a denser location even denser.

The typical renter home near OU’s camp needs to be torn down, that is if you really do want denser nicer areas to develop that will attract even more dense development.

I have been told by a supervisor who works in the transit department that the OU intermodal station will be located in the parking lot on the NW side of the duck pond…. That would not bother the duck pond too much, but its needs a massive overhaul anyway.
To build the density necessary to justify a downtown Norman stop many more than 2 building would need to be knocked down and rebuilt.

Okay...so have you even bothered to look at an overhead image of that area?

http://www.weatherspotlight.com/screencap/outrainstop.png

Okay so the intermodal station is going in the big yellow box. That's not exactly up against the rail is it? So you are looking at having to...

1) Remove the Northern part, at least, of the Duck Pond.
2) Relocate the power substation that is blocking the way.
3) Buyout and tear down the apartment complexes on the north side.

So I'm not exactly where in your mind you are thinking they can just easily add a rail station and all these parking garages you are talking about. If anything, it is just as much of a complex project as it would be to build a new rail station downtown. If the new rail station goes downtown it would obviously bring about additional new development and infill that it currently doesn't have. Essentially the argument you use FOR a station up on Tecumseh near your place of residence, is almost the exact same argument that can be used for downtown Norman. Except for one main difference...the Tecumseh area is still mostly undeveloped fields and set away from the vast majority of the population. Whereas Downtown Norman much closer to the core population center that would likely use the rail service. Most of those west of I-35 are just commuters using Norman as a bedroom community, true suburbanites, and will always take their car to go to work in OKC.

ou48A
04-11-2013, 12:47 PM
Dave I agree. It'll pass through Norman, but stopping is another question. Is it worth it to stop in Norman and delay the OKC arrival by 20-30 minutes if not more.



Okay...so have you even bothered to look at an overhead image of that area?

http://www.weatherspotlight.com/screencap/outrainstop.png

Okay so the intermodal station is going in the big yellow box. That's not exactly up against the rail is it? So you are looking at having to...

1) Remove the Northern part, at least, of the Duck Pond.
2) Relocate the power substation that is blocking the way.
3) Buyout and tear down the apartment complexes on the north side.

So I'm not exactly where in your mind you are thinking they can just easily add a rail station and all these parking garages you are talking about. If anything, it is just as much of a complex project as it would be to build a new rail station downtown. If the new rail station goes downtown it would obviously bring about additional new development and infill that it currently doesn't have. Essentially the argument you use FOR a station up on Tecumseh near your place of residence, is almost the exact same argument that can be used for downtown Norman. Except for one main difference...the Tecumseh area is still mostly undeveloped fields and set away from the vast majority of the population. Whereas Downtown Norman much closer to the core population center that would likely use the rail service. Most of those west of I-35 are just commuters using Norman as a bedroom community, true suburbanites, and will always take their car to go to work in OKC.


It’s going to be a bus stop to start with. The other stuff is a long ways off. Exactly how they go about it I don’t know but option #3 would be my guess since OU wants all the land south of Boyd Street in that area.

ou48A
04-11-2013, 12:54 PM
true suburbanites, and will always take their car to go to work in OKC.

I think you might be surprised….

I have talked to several people who live on the west side and make the drive to down town OKC, the state capitol and to the OUHSC who have told me that they would love to be able to drive to a park and ride on Tecumseh and then take a commuter rail train.

Just the facts
04-11-2013, 12:55 PM
If I had to guess I would say Norman would be a stop on an HSR route between Dallas and OKC. It might not be on every train as I am sure some will be express trains and there won't be much demand for a Norman stop in the off-peak times, but it would stop in Norman at least a couple of times a day. A Norman stop would only add a few minutes to the time anyhow. It isn't like the train will sit there and wait for people to show up. It will pull into the station, load/unload, and leave; 3 to 5 minutes tops and it can get back up to speed quickly.

ou48A
04-11-2013, 01:06 PM
I could see limited HSR service for Norman and maybe more for football games days.

The last I knew there were about 5000 OU football season tickets sold each year in the north Texas area.
Before my time, they ran several game day special trains from several locations (even from out of state) that hauled in thousands of OU fans. But that would probably be more of a commuter rail function today?

LocoAko
04-11-2013, 06:14 PM
Dave I agree. It'll pass through Norman, but stopping is another question. Is it worth it to stop in Norman and delay the OKC arrival by 20-30 minutes if not more.



Okay...so have you even bothered to look at an overhead image of that area?

http://www.weatherspotlight.com/screencap/outrainstop.png

Okay so the intermodal station is going in the big yellow box. That's not exactly up against the rail is it? So you are looking at having to...

1) Remove the Northern part, at least, of the Duck Pond.
2) Relocate the power substation that is blocking the way.
3) Buyout and tear down the apartment complexes on the north side.

So I'm not exactly where in your mind you are thinking they can just easily add a rail station and all these parking garages you are talking about. If anything, it is just as much of a complex project as it would be to build a new rail station downtown. If the new rail station goes downtown it would obviously bring about additional new development and infill that it currently doesn't have. Essentially the argument you use FOR a station up on Tecumseh near your place of residence, is almost the exact same argument that can be used for downtown Norman. Except for one main difference...the Tecumseh area is still mostly undeveloped fields and set away from the vast majority of the population. Whereas Downtown Norman much closer to the core population center that would likely use the rail service. Most of those west of I-35 are just commuters using Norman as a bedroom community, true suburbanites, and will always take their car to go to work in OKC.

I don't know what exactly it is, but what about the area just across Lindsey from the Duck Pond, where Sooner Drive is? It's just a big empty field right next to the tracks. The southern part of the area behind the trees on Stinson just looks like an old dusty site with not much going on there.

venture
04-11-2013, 06:43 PM
I don't know what exactly it is, but what about the area just across Lindsey from the Duck Pond, where Sooner Drive is? It's just a big empty field right next to the tracks. The southern part of the area behind the trees on Stinson just looks like an old dusty site with not much going on there.

I almost want to say it is a city of Norman facility with the water tower right now. Other than that, nothing else. Other side of the tracks is the UHaul place and a car was. I would imagine it would be easier to relocate the facilities there, except the water tower, and put in a very nice train station. Could even set it up with plenty of parking, on both sides, and a tunnel under the tracks for pedestrians. Right next to two relatively new and large apartments would help to fill that area in as well.

ou48A
04-11-2013, 07:21 PM
What are the possibility’s that OU could allow the new GE energy center to be built near the Sarkeys Energy Center energy and create a similar synergy that OU has with the National weather service?

OU has been gradually been buying up properties in the area of the Sarkeys Energy Center energy.
This would help create further density that so many seem to want and be close to the OU intermodal station.

CaptDave
05-23-2013, 02:20 PM
CAHSR Update - I like the interview where someone finally responds forcefully to critics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H68Ucm4kzl4

Praedura
05-26-2013, 11:16 AM
This came out in Feb, so I'm a little behind the curve.

I hadn't seen this map, but it's pretty cool. So, assuming that others may have missed it too...

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/511262026bb3f78e28000006-1280-828-619-400/us-high-speed-rail-system-by-firstcultural-2013-02-03.png

Source: https://sites.google.com/site/californiarailmap/us-high-speed-rail-system

Also, in pdf form here:

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~atwu/maps/US-High-Speed-Rail-System-by-FirstCultural-2013-02-03.pdf

Pretty sweet. Don't know what the odds are that it ever gets built. But it does seem that the notion of high speed rail links between cities is gaining traction.

Praedura
05-26-2013, 11:26 AM
Oh, and there's some interesting stuff at California's Rail Map facebook page as well.

https://www.facebook.com/CaliforniaRailMap


For example, a post about how high speed rail link stops at smaller towns could spark local development:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/563068_461271797261496_721376778_n.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=461271797261496&set=a.461271787261497.104258.405858336136176&type=1&relevant_count=1)



In major cities, high speed rail will stop at existing train stations.

In suburbs and smaller cities, a high speed rail station can act as a hub for all sorts of businesses
and amenities that can benefit from passenger or express freight connections.

venture
05-26-2013, 12:37 PM
This came out in Feb, so I'm a little behind the curve.

I hadn't seen this map, but it's pretty cool. So, assuming that others may have missed it too...

Source: https://sites.google.com/site/californiarailmap/us-high-speed-rail-system

Also, in pdf form here:

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~atwu/maps/US-High-Speed-Rail-System-by-FirstCultural-2013-02-03.pdf

Pretty sweet. Don't know what the odds are that it ever gets built. But it does seem that the notion of high speed rail links between cities is gaining traction.

Looks like several different versions/plans going around...

http://www.ushsr.com/images/810_US_HSR_Phasing_Map.gif

Snowman
05-26-2013, 04:41 PM
I had not heard Tulsa planned to move to the north & west


This came out in Feb, so I'm a little behind the curve.

I hadn't seen this map, but it's pretty cool. So, assuming that others may have missed it too...

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/511262026bb3f78e28000006-1280-828-619-400/us-high-speed-rail-system-by-firstcultural-2013-02-03.png

Source: https://sites.google.com/site/californiarailmap/us-high-speed-rail-system

Also, in pdf form here:

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~atwu/maps/US-High-Speed-Rail-System-by-FirstCultural-2013-02-03.pdf

Pretty sweet. Don't know what the odds are that it ever gets built. But it does seem that the notion of high speed rail links between cities is gaining traction.

venture
05-26-2013, 04:43 PM
I had not heard Tulsa planned to move to the north & west

You would think people that make maps would have passed geography. :)

Snowman
05-26-2013, 07:42 PM
Transit maps always exaggerate the 'straightness' of routes. It becomes troublesome when you overlay that with an actual map.

I had heard that back in college when we covered circuit board design, I thought it was a bit funny that as many bends as that line already had they did not put it more in it's actual position.

Geographer
05-30-2013, 08:27 AM
Sorry to harp on something that's probably already been talked about...but what exactly is this intermodal station that they've been building on the Duck Pond parking lot on OU's campus? I've noticed the construction but haven't decided what exactly it's for.

HangryHippo
05-30-2013, 08:56 AM
I don't think it's so much an intermodal station (like what OSU has) as much as it's a different parking lot where the buses will turn around. Here's an OU Daily article on it (http://oudaily.com/news/2013/may/28/carttransferstation/).

Geographer
05-30-2013, 09:21 AM
Interesting, I'm not so much of a fan of the bus system in Norman. It took 5 minutes to get from my apartment complex to campus, but 40 minutes to get back to my apartment....the buses only run 1 direction, which is unfortunate.

HangryHippo
05-30-2013, 10:49 AM
Interesting, I'm not so much of a fan of the bus system in Norman. It took 5 minutes to get from my apartment complex to campus, but 40 minutes to get back to my apartment....the buses only run 1 direction, which is unfortunate.

Yeah, for servicing a city with a major university in it, CART is a real disappointment. Have you by chance ever visited Chapel Hill, NC? Now that is the bus system we should learn from.

Geographer
05-30-2013, 11:11 AM
Unfortunately I have not...I would like to visit NC sometime though...some good hidden urbanism in some semi-rural environments (Davidson, NC)

Just the facts
06-01-2013, 03:30 PM
Unfortunately I have not...I would like to visit NC sometime though...some good hidden urbanism in some semi-rural environments (Davidson, NC)

The are great pockets of urbanism all over America but for some reason people hear the word 'urban' and they think 20,000 people per sq mile and highrise buildings. Really all you have to do is find someplace built before 1945 that they didn't tear down by 1965.

G.Walker
06-01-2013, 08:47 PM
I think the HSR link from OKC to Dallas might be implemented quicker then one might think.

vaflyer
06-01-2013, 09:38 PM
I think the HSR link from OKC to Dallas might be implemented quicker then one might think.

I am curious, why do you think that and what type of time frame do you have in mind?

G.Walker
06-02-2013, 06:21 AM
I am curious, why do you think that and what type of time frame do you have in mind?

From what I read, TxDot wants this implemented by 2020, now for ODOT, well that might be a problem. I have feeling ODOT will drag their feet on this, and delay implementation.