View Full Version : High-speed rail to link Tulsa\OKC\Dallas and more...



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CaptDave
09-20-2012, 03:07 PM
Yep _ I have seen that before. You know I am a supporter of a network such as that.

Just the facts
09-20-2012, 03:19 PM
Yep _ I have seen that before. You know I am a supporter of a network such as that.

I am glad you reminded me, in my original comment there would be a train from Orlando to Atlanta, it just wouldn't stop anywhere along the way.

Roadhawg
09-20-2012, 04:36 PM
I wonder if we're wasting money on something that's outdated (Amtrak) and should be investing in high speed. We don't need to go cross country right away but start replacing some Amtrak routes with it.

CaptDave
09-20-2012, 10:30 PM
I wonder if we're wasting money on something that's outdated (Amtrak) and should be investing in high speed. We don't need to go cross country right away but start replacing some Amtrak routes with it.

I have thought about that too. I think an incremental approach may be the most attainable. First, maximize the performance of conventional equipment in use today and concentrate on right of way improvement and acquisition but allow for eventual electrification. (This should include preparing the ROW for HSR in corridors identified in the national HSR plan.) Once this is done, increase the frequency of service of long distance trains and implement policy that encourages the development of regional/state systems. Finally, start expanding HSR in areas that have made preparations now. Their vision and foresight should be rewarded with the first HSR lines outside of the NEC. Of course this is a huge oversimplification, but that is a general outline of how I think passenger rail service might be restored.

G.Walker
10-20-2012, 12:20 PM
HSR from OKC to Dallas may actually be coming more of a reality:

State Launches Rail Study to See if Passenger Trains from Oklahoma to Texas can Provide Congestion Relief for Drivers (http://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/media-room/news/statewide/052-2012.html)

catch22
10-20-2012, 12:29 PM
From the article.


“To truly address congestion, we must look at more than just building and expanding highways,” said John Barton TxDOT deputy executive director & chief engineer. “Passenger rail is a strategic component for the future of Texas transportation.”



Maybe since ODOT loves copying Texas on highways....maybe they'll listen and follow suit about rail...

Just the facts
10-20-2012, 12:41 PM
Unitl people can freely move about at both ends of the HSR line, demand will be weak. In Dallas you can that easily with DART, in OKC - not so much. Once the streetcar gets built and especially when OKC regional rail is developed there would be no real reason to even drive your own car to Dallas other than personal preference.

Teo9969
10-20-2012, 01:22 PM
Unitl people can freely move about at both ends of the HSR line, demand will be weak. In Dallas you can that easily with DART, in OKC - not so much. Once the streetcar gets built and especially when OKC regional rail is developed there would be no real reason to even drive your own car to Dallas other than personal preference.

I don't know that Demand will be weak. In fact, I think Texas tends to know that Oklahomans travel to Texas quite a bit...as long as they have their end of the public transit established before the Rail is up, then it's probably a good investment for Texas. Add in the ability to rent a car, and the ability for business people to get work done on the Rail and you can see some definite advantages.

CaptDave
10-20-2012, 07:30 PM
The 110 mph Chicago - St Louis line improvement is part of the much maligned stimulus. If we could simply get faster conventional service implemented in several locations in the US, it would be an excellent intermediate step toward true HSR. We can improve existing right of ways to support 100+mph service NOW. With positive train control being installed on the BNSF line through OKC now, we really could be running faster Heartland Flyer service within 2-4 years. Simultaneously start an OKRail network such as the one JTF has posted for intrastate service and one could potentially travel from Tulsa to Houston in the time it takes to got from OKC to Austin now. HSR will need to be more of a 10 - 20 year target I think; but we should start making the initial plans now.

Illinois Amtrak train hits 111 mph in test run | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/illinois-amtrak-train-hits-111-mph-in-test-run/article/3720815?custom_click=pod_headline_business)

LakeEffect
10-22-2012, 08:30 AM
The 110 mph Chicago - St Louis line improvement is part of the much maligned stimulus. If we could simply get faster conventional service implemented in several locations in the US, it would be an excellent intermediate step toward true HSR. We can improve existing right of ways to support 100+mph service NOW. With positive train control being installed on the BNSF line through OKC now, we really could be running faster Heartland Flyer service within 2-4 years. Simultaneously start an OKRail network such as the one JTF has posted for intrastate service and one could potentially travel from Tulsa to Houston in the time it takes to got from OKC to Austin now. HSR will need to be more of a 10 - 20 year target I think; but we should start making the initial plans now.

Illinois Amtrak train hits 111 mph in test run | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/illinois-amtrak-train-hits-111-mph-in-test-run/article/3720815?custom_click=pod_headline_business)

Positive train control won't have an impact on the Heartland Flyer being able to go faster. The only way to actually help would be to double track (with 3rd track sidings) all the way to Fort Worth. BNSF freight will continue to clog up the corridor and make running the HF on schedule tough. Going faster actually complicates further.

Snowman
10-22-2012, 08:46 AM
The 110 mph Chicago - St Louis line improvement is part of the much maligned stimulus. If we could simply get faster conventional service implemented in several locations in the US, it would be an excellent intermediate step toward true HSR. We can improve existing right of ways to support 100+mph service NOW. With positive train control being installed on the BNSF line through OKC now, we really could be running faster Heartland Flyer service within 2-4 years. Simultaneously start an OKRail network such as the one JTF has posted for intrastate service and one could potentially travel from Tulsa to Houston in the time it takes to got from OKC to Austin now. HSR will need to be more of a 10 - 20 year target I think; but we should start making the initial plans now.

Illinois Amtrak train hits 111 mph in test run | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/illinois-amtrak-train-hits-111-mph-in-test-run/article/3720815?custom_click=pod_headline_business)

The sad thing is, this was probably done on a section that almost a hundred years ago would have had passenger trains exceeded 120 mph on a regular basis.

HangryHippo
10-22-2012, 09:40 AM
Positive train control won't have an impact on the Heartland Flyer being able to go faster. The only way to actually help would be to double track (with 3rd track sidings) all the way to Fort Worth. BNSF freight will continue to clog up the corridor and make running the HF on schedule tough. Going faster actually complicates further.

How much would double tracking this route cost?

CaptDave
10-22-2012, 10:17 AM
Positive train control won't have an impact on the Heartland Flyer being able to go faster. The only way to actually help would be to double track (with 3rd track sidings) all the way to Fort Worth. BNSF freight will continue to clog up the corridor and make running the HF on schedule tough. Going faster actually complicates further.

Oh - I have a misunderstanding of PTC then. I thought it permitted trains to run closer together and could actually slow down and/or stop a train if the is a conflict at a crossing or another train on the same track. Need to do more reading. Thanks.

Double track with strategically located sidings would be ideal. I think the only place on the present BNSF right of way this may not be practical is in the "canyon" in the Arbuckles. IIRC, the Chicago-St Louis line is used by a freight line and IDOT paid for the upgrades that permitted the higher speed passenger traffic. This is probably the most likely scenario for Tulsa-OKC-DFW in the near future.

LakeEffect
10-22-2012, 10:29 AM
Oh - I have a misunderstanding of PTC then. I thought it permitted trains to run closer together and could actually slow down and/or stop a train if the is a conflict at a crossing or another train on the same track. Need to do more reading. Thanks.

Double track with strategically located sidings would be ideal. I think the only place on the present BNSF right of way this may not be practical is in the "canyon" in the Arbuckles. IIRC, the Chicago-St Louis line is used by a freight line and IDOT paid for the upgrades that permitted the higher speed passenger traffic. This is probably the most likely scenario for Tulsa-OKC-DFW in the near future.

Your understanding of PTC is correct, but it really only works smoothly when congestion is limited. Doing double/triple track and utilizing PTC would really up the ability of everything to run well. PTC appears to mainly a safety feature instead of an operational feature.

BNSF recently spent a large amount of money double-tracking the Abo Canyon portion of its Transcon: BNSF - Employees - Communications - BNSF News - Abo Canyon Double Track Open for Business (http://www.bnsf.com/employees/communications/bnsf-news/2011/june/2011-06-06-a.html) It can certainly be done in the Arbuckles, but it might make some environmentalists mad. See a longer pre-construction story here: http://www.bnsf.com/employees/communications/railway-magazine/pdf/200812.pdf

OKCisOK4me
10-22-2012, 10:33 AM
Positive train control won't have an impact on the Heartland Flyer being able to go faster. The only way to actually help would be to double track (with 3rd track sidings) all the way to Fort Worth. BNSF freight will continue to clog up the corridor and make running the HF on schedule tough. Going faster actually complicates further.

I was under the impression that since Amtrak is a government entity that the freights had to pull over to let the passenger through? I only say this cause every freight I saw on my trip to Fort Worth was in a siding...

CaptDave
10-22-2012, 10:42 AM
Very cool - thanks for the links. I actually talked with one of the BNSF track inspectors several months ago and he told me PTC was coming to the line through OKC. I think that is what we are seeing in progress with the changing of the signals along the line.

LakeEffect
10-22-2012, 10:56 AM
I was under the impression that since Amtrak is a government entity that the freights had to pull over to let the passenger through? I only say this cause every freight I saw on my trip to Fort Worth was in a siding...

Only to a point... The railroads are allowed to act in their interest to keep the line moving, and generally accommodate Amtrak appropriately. Canadian National, Norfolk Southern and Union Pacific have all been called on the carpet in the past few years about their dispatching and keeping Amtrak slowed down. UP was especially bad in California... they all generally complied. The recession also helped because freight traffic went down but Amtrak stayed the same, so Amtrak overall had a better on time rate.

Also, the more trains BNSF pumps onto our OKC-FW line, the tougher it is to keep Amtrak going on time. If every siding becomes full, there will be a time when Amtrak has to run behind a slower freight regardless.

LakeEffect
10-22-2012, 10:56 AM
Very cool - thanks for the links. I actually talked with one of the BNSF track inspectors several months ago and he told me PTC was coming to the line through OKC. I think that is what we are seeing in progress with the changing of the signals along the line.

Yep. I didn't realize how extensive that system was going to be. Noticed some overhead signals along EK Gaylord. It should also help make the quiet zone easier to implement.

OKCisOK4me
10-22-2012, 11:11 AM
And what makes it even worse is that Amtraks top allowed speed in Texas is 55mph.

ljbab728
11-16-2012, 10:44 PM
California high-speed rail is one step closer.

Judge backs Calif. high-speed rail over farmers - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/judge-backs-calif-high-speed-rail-over-farmers-013707062.html)

Just the facts
11-18-2012, 09:53 PM
From a link in the story linked to above.

Ill. high-speed rail gets environmental approval - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/ill-high-speed-rail-gets-environmental-approval-170908679--finance.html)


..CHICAGO (AP) ó Illinois and the federal government have approved an environmental impact statement for the high-speed rail line under construction between Chicago and St. Louis.

The review is an important step because it identifies a route through Springfield that would end a dispute that had threatened to hold up the project.

It also recommends a route around some of the congested tangle of rail lines between Chicago and suburban Joliet. Upgrades to that suggested corridor would be $500 million cheaper than the existing route because fewer overpasses would be needed.

The assessment also clears the way for possibly building a dedicated line in the future so passenger trains wouldn't have to share track with freight trains.

Upgrades for 110-mph service over most of the line should be finished by 2015.

CaptDave
12-06-2012, 02:49 PM
And yet, the people of Oklahoma continue to be istooked and odotted........

Railroad Passenger Rail Article - Americans want more transportation options; plus, freight rail traffic data. Information For Rail Career Professionals From Progressive Railroading Magazine (http://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/article/Americans-want-more-transportation-options-plus-freight-rail-traffic-data--32871)

Americans want more transportation options; plus, freight rail traffic data

Passenger Rail

A majority of Americans would prefer new transportation options — including rail — instead of additional highways as a solution to the country's traffic congestion problems, according to poll results issued last month by the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC).

Conducted this summer by a bipartisan team of pollsters, the telephone survey of 800 Americans found that most wanted more transportation options and believed the nation's current transportation system is in need of major change.

Among the results, 59 percent of respondents believed the transportation system is "outdated, unreliable and inefficient;" 58 percent said they would use transit more often, but it's not conveniently available; 59 percent want more transportation options; and 64 percent believe their community would benefit from an expanded and improved rail and/or bus system, NRDC officials said in a prepared statement.

The poll was conducted by Public Opinion Strategies, and Fairbank, Maslin, Maullin, Metz & Associates.

If they could spend less time driving, how would commuters spend their extra minutes? Twenty-one percent said they would spend more time with their family; 20 percent would cook, garden or work around the house; 13 percent would take up a hobby; 11 percent would exercise; 9 percent would get more sleep; 4 percent would volunteer; and 3 percent would work more.

Asked how they would reduce traffic congestion, 42 percent favored improving public transportation, 21 percent favored development of communities where people wouldn't have to drive as much, and 20 percent preferred construction of more roads. The remaining 17 percent preferred all or none of those options, or didn't know.

Sixty-eight percent said they would support more local investment to improve public transportation.

The survey showed that Americans want to drive less, and "want to shake up the status-quo mindset when it comes to relieving the traffic congestion they say they deal with all too frequently," stated the pollsters' report that summarized the survey findings.

Plutonic Panda
12-06-2012, 05:33 PM
I like driving and hope they don't ever stop funding highways and am an advocate for building better, higher-speed, and safer highways. However, I think there needs to be balance for people like me who enjoy driving more and for people that prefer mass transit. I would love to see an expansive streetcar AND light rail system in OKC and every other city. I also think a HSR would be awesome to see in America and eventually connected across the the world(if that will ever happen).

catch22
12-06-2012, 05:43 PM
Highways won't be cut completely. But we do need to continue diversify our transportation options. This includes air, rail, road, boat.

Plutonic Panda
12-06-2012, 05:53 PM
Highways won't be cut completely. But we do need to continue diversify our transportation options. This includes air, rail, road, boat.I couldn't agree more. :)

OKCRT
12-06-2012, 06:01 PM
I couldn't agree more. :)

The city/state needs to build an extensive inner city streetcar system with rail line going to Edmond,airport,mwc/tinker and Norman. Inner city streetcar would include south to i-240 from Eastern to May and north to NW Expressway from Classen to Portland.

CaptDave
12-06-2012, 06:02 PM
I like driving and hope they don't ever stop funding highways and am an advocate for building better, higher-speed, and safer highways. However, I think there needs to be balance for people like me who enjoy driving more and for people that prefer mass transit. I would love to see an expansive streetcar AND light rail system in OKC and every other city. I also think a HSR would be awesome to see in America and eventually connected across the the world(if that will ever happen).

Think of it this way Panda - if the people who would rather not drive had an alternative, driving would be far more enjoyable simply due to fewer vehicles on the road and the inevitable traffic jams. We really do not have a significant traffic congestion problem in OKC. We have more than enough roads of every type to handle present volume and realistic estimates for the future. There are a couple of choke points such as I44 and I235, but ODOT is taking care of that one. (That type of project is something ODOT does pretty well - city streets? Not so much.)

I like to drive too - but for every day mundane commuting, I would not mind riding a good mass transit system and saving the cost and wear and tear on my vehicle.

Plutonic Panda
12-06-2012, 06:10 PM
The city/state needs to build an extensive inner city streetcar system with rail line going to Edmond,airport,mwc/tinker and Norman. Inner city streetcar would include south to i-240 from Eastern to May and north to NW Expressway from Classen to Portland.I would love to see an expansive Light Rail system throughout the metro. In fact if this convention center is going to cost around 400-500 million dollars like some say it is, I could live with the Cox center for another 5 even 10 years and completely dedicate all the CC funds to the LR.

catch22
12-06-2012, 06:10 PM
I agree. Open road driving, windows down, music up, flexible time constraints -- very enjoyable. My drive to work: fighting for asphalt and becoming a road rage monster... I'm really tired of it.

Plutonic Panda
12-06-2012, 06:21 PM
Think of it this way Panda - if the people who would rather not drive had an alternative, driving would be far more enjoyable simply due to fewer vehicles on the road and the inevitable traffic jams. We really do not have a significant traffic congestion problem in OKC. We have more than enough roads of every type to handle present volume and realistic estimates for the future. There are a couple of choke points such as I44 and I235, but ODOT is taking care of that one. (That type of project is something ODOT does pretty well - city streets? Not so much.)

I like to drive too - but for every day mundane commuting, I would not mind riding a good mass transit system and saving the cost and wear and tear on my vehicle.

I understand, believe me. I want the city to really start prioritizing mass transit including buses, rail, streetcar and eventually if they ever expand the river to midwest city and/or further west to, a ferry transport of some kind. I would just like to see OKC(I guess more ODOT) start to build these interchanges like Dallas, Houston, L.A. ect... But, I don't know if that will happen for awhile now seeing as they include 2 cloverleafs at the new 44/235 interchange (which I guess probably could be converted to fly over down the line). I want options to be available for everyone in this awesome country so everybody has an equal opportunity.

My father owns a car rental/wholesale dealership in Moore and I shuttle people to and from the airport and on the way back to the airport I have had multiple people tell me they just can't believe how dependent OKC is on cars. Heck, ten years ago it was damn near impossible to maintain a living in this city without a car. I think the only reason it is sustainable now is due to the Downtown housing developments. But, it very exciting to see the street car come in place and the HSR study between ODOT and TDOT is a HUGE step forward.

Plutonic Panda
12-06-2012, 06:28 PM
I agree. Open road driving, windows down, music up, flexible time constraints -- very enjoyable. My drive to work: fighting for asphalt and becoming a road rage monster... I'm really tired of it.

I hear you loud and clear on that one. I don't know whether you drive I-35 coming from Norman or not, but is it just me or are the people becoming very rude on that particular stretch of highway. I've had people passing me on the shoulder and blazing their horns for not moving out of the fast lane immediately for them, being cut off within mere inches, and the other day I witness an older lady who merged over on the shoulder for a fire truck and literally right after the firetruck passed some guy in big Chevy truck took her spot and wouldn't let her on and several people wouldn't either until I got mad and immediately cut someone off(which was probably stupid on my part because I REALLY cut close with this) and I stopped my car and waited for her to merge on. BTW If don't know I enjoy doing about 10-15 over the speed limit so for me to be saying people are driving waaaaaay to fast and recklessly is saying something. lol

ou48A
12-11-2012, 11:39 AM
I like driving and hope they don't ever stop funding highways and am an advocate for building better, higher-speed, and safer highways. However, I think there needs to be balance for people like me who enjoy driving more and for people that prefer mass transit. I would love to see an expansive streetcar AND light rail system in OKC and every other city. I also think a HSR would be awesome to see in America and eventually connected across the the world(if that will ever happen).

Where it is appropriate, I would love to see Oklahoma increase is rural interstate speed limit to 85 MPH
Much of Texas is now 75 MHP, letís at least do that.

BoulderSooner
12-11-2012, 01:41 PM
Where it is appropriate, I would love to see Oklahoma increase is rural interstate speed limit to 85 MPH
Much of Texas is now 75 MHP, let’s at least do that.

west texas is 80 mph on I-10 and I-20 and 75 in other areas .. oklahoma should follow suit

Plutonic Panda
12-11-2012, 01:43 PM
Where it is appropriate, I would love to see Oklahoma increase is rural interstate speed limit to 85 MPH
Much of Texas is now 75 MHP, let’s at least do that.Good note. I should've specified that. I also think Indian Nations Turnpike could easily suport 80-90 MPH speed limits. I sure they won't do 90 but 85 would be appropriate in opinion.

catch22
12-11-2012, 02:23 PM
Does anyone know what effect (if any) this would have on congestion in urban areas?

We would be moving traffic towards our cities faster, then slowing them down to 60 (25 mph decrease). You'd have traffic entering faster than you can get it back out the other side.

soonerguru
12-11-2012, 03:40 PM
Think of it this way Panda - if the people who would rather not drive had an alternative, driving would be far more enjoyable simply due to fewer vehicles on the road and the inevitable traffic jams. We really do not have a significant traffic congestion problem in OKC. We have more than enough roads of every type to handle present volume and realistic estimates for the future. There are a couple of choke points such as I44 and I235, but ODOT is taking care of that one. (That type of project is something ODOT does pretty well - city streets? Not so much.)

I like to drive too - but for every day mundane commuting, I would not mind riding a good mass transit system and saving the cost and wear and tear on my vehicle.

You're off base here. The Rail Division of ODOT is the reason we were even at the table for high-speed rail. They had the foresight to plan ahead a decade ago and put together the blueprints for it. However you may feel about other ODOT-related issues, this is not one they should be criticized for.

CaptDave
12-11-2012, 03:53 PM
You're off base here. The Rail Division of ODOT is the reason we were even at the table for high-speed rail. They had the foresight to plan ahead a decade ago and put together the blueprints for it. However you may feel about other ODOT-related issues, this is not one they should be criticized for.

Actually I wasn't criticizing the people in ODOT's rail division. I think they do the best job they can in an organization with an obvious bias toward highways. The state was right in purchasing and maintaining ownership of the rail line between OKC and Tulsa. I would like them to do something with it rather than studying it to oblivion. It appears to be a "delay by study" process going on rather than working toward starting service. We probably missed a great opportunity for federal dollars to assist in the modernization of the line and connecting it with downtown Tulsa.

Spartan
12-11-2012, 03:54 PM
west texas is 80 mph on I-10 and I-20 and 75 in other areas .. oklahoma should follow suit

We should raise speed limits and then have empirical, above-board enforcement. It shouldn't depend on whether you met a nice cop or not.

Everybody speeds right now because the speed limit has not kept up with advances in cars.

Just the facts
12-11-2012, 04:14 PM
If we are going to have high speeds on rural interstates then we need to switch over to lane specific speeds. Right lane 70 mph, Left Lane 80 mph. If you are caught being passes on the right it is a ticket.

soonerguru
12-11-2012, 04:58 PM
Actually I wasn't criticizing the people in ODOT's rail division. I think they do the best job they can in an organization with an obvious bias toward highways. The state was right in purchasing and maintaining ownership of the rail line between OKC and Tulsa. I would like them to do something with it rather than studying it to oblivion. It appears to be a "delay by study" process going on rather than working toward starting service. We probably missed a great opportunity for federal dollars to assist in the modernization of the line and connecting it with downtown Tulsa.

This is not why we missed out on Federal dollars. We just didn't make the cut due to whatever criteria they selected, probably lack of population served versus limited funding. So the money went to Florida and then their newly elected teabagger gov turned it down because Obama.

ou48A
12-11-2012, 05:12 PM
west texas is 80 mph on I-10 and I-20 and 75 in other areas .. oklahoma should follow suit

You are correct.
Texas has even increased speeds to 80 on a few 2 lane highways.
Oklahoma could do the same on some of the roads in the panhandle and in northern and western parts of the state.

Spartan
12-11-2012, 05:30 PM
You are correct.
Texas has even increased speeds to 80 on a few 2 lane highways.
Oklahoma could do the same on some of the roads in the panhandle and in northern and western parts of the state.

No, we couldn't. Roads in the panhandle aren't conducive to higher speed limits. Maybe the Northwest Highway, but that's it.

ou48A
12-11-2012, 06:09 PM
No, we couldn't. Roads in the panhandle aren't conducive to higher speed limits. Maybe the Northwest Highway, but that's it.Having lived in Guymon and in other locations in the northwest one quarter (west of I-35 and north of I- 40) and also traveling extensively in this are for several decades I could not disagree more….. that large stretches of 2 lane could not support a day time speed limit of 80 MPH.

I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in this area while driving several types of vehicles.
I have driven many times for 50 or 100 miles and not seen but 2 or 3 other moving vehicles outside the local community’s.
This is not to say that there would not be locations and stretches of highway that would not need to have a slower than 80 MPH speed limits.

But an engineering study such as what Texas did would likely find that parts of US 3, 54, 56, 60, 64, 81, 183, 283, 412 and state highway’s 6, 11 and 34 could support 80 mph speed limits. Certainly higher than where they are now set.

Monkeypony
12-13-2012, 11:14 AM
there has to be a political discussion regarding high speed rail in oklahoma because bottom line is, as long as Okies keep voting in people like IMHOFF over and over.. who essentially kill any possibility of progress ( he sleeps with the oil folks) and has car dealers in his pocket). it will not happen! Wallace Collins, Dem, rep in Norman fought for high speed rail many times. Even Randy Terrill ( repub) , yes fought for hsr by using argement, if we ever needed to use rail for even military reasons would be good to keep that infrastructure up to date but iMHOFF wouldnt have any part of it. so unfortunately, you have to bring up politics when talking about bringing Oklahoma into the 21 st century..

HOT ROD
12-15-2012, 01:35 AM
this is what I don't understand. People keep voting for Kern, Istook, Inhoff, and these idiots who keep holding OKC back.

Don't people want Oklahoma to succeed? Stop voting for people who care NOTHING about Oklahoma but want to use the state for their personal agenda. I really wish OKC (and Tulsa) would take a stand and lead the state!

Plutonic Panda
12-15-2012, 03:26 AM
this is what I don't understand. People keep voting for Kern, Istook, Inhoff, and these idiots who keep holding OKC back.

Don't people want Oklahoma to succeed? Stop voting for people who care NOTHING about Oklahoma but want to use the state for their personal agenda. I really wish OKC (and Tulsa) would take a stand and lead the state!I'm hoping that people are starting to wake up and realize that.

OKCisOK4me
12-21-2012, 06:56 PM
Just found this pic on Facebook and it made me think this...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8214/8294802147_a40ceb8198.jpg

The trip would be much faster on the Flyer if Ardmore was the only stop between OKC and Ft. Worth. If the Flyer were to be extended toward St. Louis, then I think only stops at Tulsa & Springfield, MO, would be warranted. Look at the Texas Eagle from Dallas to St. Louis, only two stops at Texarkana & Little Rock. The Flyer doesn't need to stop every 20 miles.

There are no other divisions of Amtrak that have 15,000 stops between major cities. Unless the states are going to take on the responsibility of running passenger service between the cities then I think it will be fine to stop at those cities if they are going to participate in the RTAs. Otherwise, those citizens can hop in a car and commute to the station.

Having commuter connections to the larger suburbs will help in the long run. There will be no need to stop in Norman if commuter trains will be running up to OKC before Amtrak departs for Dallas (or hopefully with this eastern extension to Tulsa and beyond).

ljbab728
12-21-2012, 10:12 PM
Just found this pic on Facebook and it made me think this...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8214/8294802147_a40ceb8198.jpg

The trip would be much faster on the Flyer if Ardmore was the only stop between OKC and Ft. Worth. If the Flyer were to be extended toward St. Louis, then I think only stops at Tulsa & Springfield, MO, would be warranted. Look at the Texas Eagle from Dallas to St. Louis, only two stops at Texarkana & Little Rock. The Flyer doesn't need to stop every 20 miles.

There are no other divisions of Amtrak that have 15,000 stops between major cities. Unless the states are going to take on the responsibility of running passenger service between the cities then I think it will be fine to stop at those cities if they are going to participate in the RTAs. Otherwise, those citizens can hop in a car and commute to the station.

Having commuter connections to the larger suburbs will help in the long run. There will be no need to stop in Norman if commuter trains will be running up to OKC before Amtrak departs for Dallas (or hopefully with this eastern extension to Tulsa and beyond).

Your comparison doesn't work. That only shows the major stops on the Texas Eagle. There are six stops between Dallas and Little Rock with one more on the way. Please note the complete schedule here.

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/294/244/Texas-Eagle-110412.pdf

OKCisOK4me
01-28-2013, 04:06 PM
Since the link can't be seen if I post it, here's this from Facebook:

Rumor Mill : : BNSF Railway Avard Sub CTC Activated : : Sooner Sub Sale

Reliable sources have indicated that Centralized Traffic Control (CTC) has been installed and turned on for the Avard Sub (Tulsa - Perry - Enid - Avard) between Tulsa and Perry. Passenger rail requires what is called signaled territory (illuminated track signals) to be introduced at speeds of 60-mph or greater.

The Avard Sub has been "dark territory" for decades. CTC projects on this territory open up the possibility the route could one day be used for passenger rail. Apparently CTC signals are also being installed between Perry and Avard. This would make passenger rail possible between Tulsa and Los Angeles.

ODOT's Sooner Sub : : Bad news reached our office Friday. Rumors reached our office where Oklahoma state owned track between Sapulpa and Oklahoma City could be sold back to the BNSF Railway by the end of the week. If the BNSF Railway comes back into possession of this line, Amtrak would essentially become the only provider of passenger service capable of providing passenger rail on the route. This would likely escalate costs and make negotiations much more difficult.

Contact thinkcivic@gmail.com for more information.

OKCisOK4me
01-28-2013, 04:10 PM
As I stated on that page, I think this would be a wiser decision as far as extending the Flyer to Tulsa. Why skip over the second largest suburb of OKC by using the ODOT route (which may be sold back to BNSF anyway)? This way you hit Edmond, Guthrie and Perry. Also, Perry will be a major crossroads for connections if the future if the Southwest Chief is rerouted on to BNSF's Transcon Line.

Just the facts
02-12-2013, 07:02 AM
The map looks good but they need a line from Denver to New Orelans (thru OKC). Like the interstate system, those routes are setup to connect the NE with the rest of the country. There needs to be a more direct route from the NW to the SE.

G.Walker
03-14-2013, 11:01 AM
Looks like HSR from Oklahoma City to Dallas takes one step closer to becoming reality, good deal:

https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/03/13/2013-05732/service-level-environmental-impact-statement-for-the-texas-oklahoma-passenger-rail-study-corridor

Plutonic Panda
04-08-2013, 02:52 PM
Transportation Blog | News, analysis and reader contriubtions about traffic, transit and transportation in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. (http://transportationblog.dallasnews.com)

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 10:57 AM
Reading through those articles (especially the 3rd one) I can't help but think of the mistake people make in pushing for park and ride stations vs. developing an actual neighborhood around the stations, or better yet, establishing a station where walkable urbanism already exist (ie, downtown Norman vs North Norman).

ou48A
04-09-2013, 01:04 PM
Reading through those articles (especially the 3rd one) I can't help but think of the mistake people make in pushing for park and ride stations vs. developing an actual neighborhood around the stations, or better yet, establishing a station where walkable urbanism already exist (ie, downtown Norman vs North Norman).

There isn’t going to be very much walkable built in the OKC area when it's 80 one day 30 the next with a 40 MPH wind coming out of several directions. Not to mention the 115 degree weather and other serious weather threats. Build the park and rides and the walkable can spring up around them just like they have in other cities.

Except for a very tiny population there is nothing walkable or scalable about downtown Norman for commuter rail. The modern OU has many thousands more resident and others with in walkable distance and offers thousands of times more expansion opportunities.

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 01:08 PM
There isn’t going to be very much walkable built in the OKC area when it's 80 one day 30 the next with a 40 MPH wind coming out of several directions. Not to mention the 115 degree weather and other serious weather threats. Build the park and rides and the walkable can spring up around them just like they have in other cities.

Except for a very tiny population there is nothing walkable or scalable about down town Norman for commuter rail. The modern OU has many thousands more resident and others with in walkable distance and offers thousands of times more expansion opportunities.

Serious question - do you know how inane your post reads?

On edit, try not take offense to that but nothing in your comment is even founded in reality (except that OU does have thousands of residents).

Plutonic Panda
04-09-2013, 01:30 PM
Actually, in terms of the way people think and act here now, I think OU is right. However, I've never been to Iraq, but Tehran is pretty urban and made to walk, it gets well over 115 degrees f a lot and the heat is more intense because it's pretty much in a bowl, Chicago and NYC, as well as countless Canadian cities seem to be pretty pedestrian friendly and they're pretty cold. It is funny though, how when it gets below 50 degrees or above 100, you don't really see too many people out.

I guess I'm saying, if Chicago has a huge "pedestrian" presence, and they're colder and about as windy(if not windier) than OKC, than we can find a way to cope too, same with warmer climates.

CaptDave
04-09-2013, 01:39 PM
The weather is possibly the lamest of excuses for this. But in Oklahoma people walk across a black asphalt or concrete parking lot, get into a 130+ degree steel box, and drive a couple blocks. They arrive before the AC has a chance to cool the air inside the car. In some places it takes longer to drive than walk.

CaptDave
04-09-2013, 01:45 PM
It also rains 300 days of the year in Seattle... And boy is it walkable.

And no one melted??!! :wink:

Just the facts
04-09-2013, 01:46 PM
Superhumans Found!

http://cbsdallas.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/winter.jpg?w=300

How the hell does OU football survive without a domed stadium?