Hey everybody,

I have joined this forum in a self-admittedly somewhat pathetic attempt to find new ways to meet people in Oklahoma City.

I relocated here for work after having lived on the East Coast (in large cities) for several years. The cultural adjustment has been...difficult.

The thing is, I'm quite liberal, I don't care about college football, and (gasp) I'm an atheist.

While bonfires, shooting guns, playing football, and drinking beer are a hell of a lot of fun, my education and ideologies are an inseparable part of me. I love knowledge, and want to find people who spend a lot of time thinking. I can't pretend to be something I'm not. And, while I played sports growing up and even at the collegiate level, these days I care a lot more about science and books than I do about Boomer Sooner football. I am definitely not Sooner Born and Sooner Bred.

As for religion:

I think what I hate the most is how people around here use religion as a proxy for morality. Honestly, I think most people around here think that non-Christians are not to be trusted. That's so frustrating. Atheism is such a taboo around here. It's totally misunderstood. I do not need the threat of repercussion from God to treat people with dignity, or to have a strong sense of integrity. Christians who think a person needs the wrath and/or guidance of God to be decent or trustworthy need to take a deep look at the basis of their own morality.

I once told somebody here in OKC that I was an atheist and she covered my mouth as if to say, "You surely don't mean that. You can't say that here."

I just want to know what I can do to make some real friends who I can relate to, and who can relate to me.

I've been here for almost two years now and I still feel utterly alone. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

You might try meeting some friends at church?

(I say that only halfway joking.)

Yes, Atheism isn't widely accepted in these parts. Good luck. You might just want to not mention that fact, especially to potential friends. I mean, I know all kinds of people, and meet new ones daily and many of them have no idea that I'm a *gasp* PRESBYTERIAN!

Kinda like if I were gay (which I'm not) I wouldn't go around bragging about the fact and then wonder why people didn't want to hang out with me.

I'm just sayin.....

Please...

On the surface it would seem that you would gravitate to the coffee shops and restarants that cater to the artsy types who are usually liberal and CERTainly open to the nonconventional. Try the Red Cup or Saused Annex as starting places.

On the surface it would seem that you would gravitate to the coffee shops and restarants that cater to the artsy types who are usually liberal and CERTainly open to the nonconventional. Try the Red Cup or Saused Annex as starting places.

Thanks for the advice USG. I'll check those places out.

I've lived in both places - the east coast and Oklahoma. There is a definite culture shock, either way. It is tough. Not everyone can make the adjustment.

There are plenty of intellectually inclined folks in Oklahoma. But the intellectual elite living in Oklahoma tend to be well rounded enough to respect and enjoy the less high brow joys of the state, as well. Because at the end of the day, you don't have to choose. Or you can just put it all in perspective and do your thing without getting sidetracked by sooners and all that. I have gone years and years without going to a sooner game and it never crossed my mind that I would be an outcast as a result. I don't think I have ever been to a bonfire, mores the pity. I need to put that on my list of things to accomplish before I die, I suppose. I love wine and learned about it in Oklahoma. As an aside - back east, they gargle stuff that tastes like stomach contents. Oh, I know that plenty of people drink decent wine out here, but plenty don't. Back in Oklahoma, I had a wine collection that I was pretty proud of. Back east, good god, I am drinking wine out of a box. East Coast does not equal culturally superior. My husband graduated from OU but hasn't a clue what Oklahoma sports are up to. His best friend since he was in college is a rabid sooner sponsor. They work it out without it getting in the way. It doesn't have to be a big deal.

The bigger difference between moving from the east coast vs. moving to the east coast is that many folks, particularly the North Atlantic States and northward, have an entrenched sense of superiority that the members tend to reinforce among themselves. Once you leave that area, there is a huge cultural shock that other people not only don't agree with your values and tastes, they aren't going to hold back on saying so.

As for religion - Why would that be anyone's business? I'm not atheist but my lack of christianity was never a problem for me when I lived in Oklahoma. It might have been if I had decided to shove my beliefs down anyone else's throat but I would never be that rude. The fact is, you don't like christianity but sound surprised that christians kind of think an atheist is icky, too. Sauce for the goose, etc. Trust me, Oklahoma is not going to stop being predominately Christian for a very long time - probably not in your lifetime, for sure. It can be annoying but it doesn't have to be a big deal unless you are simply too rigid to rise above it. But seriously, it never caused me a problem and I even raised children to be nonchristian (and liberal) with no problems. Part of it may be that I genuinely respect christianity and have made an effort to "get" where they are coming from. If you treat them as yahoos, it won't go well.

And as an aside - atheism strikes me as just as radical as being a methodist. I can't imagine being so sure about anything absent proof. But that is just me.

You wrote:

<<While bonfires, shooting guns, playing football, and drinking beer are a hell of a lot of fun, my education and ideologies are an inseparable part of me. I love knowledge, and want to find people who spend a lot of time thinking. I can't pretend to be something I'm not. And, while I played sports growing up and even at the collegiate level, these days I care a lot more about science and books than I do about Boomer Sooner football. I am definitely not Sooner Born and Sooner Bred.>>

Sigh. How old are you? You sound young, to me. But anyone under thirty-five sounds like a baby, to me so that may not mean much.

The values you are describing sound a bit like what you see in college students and postgraduate students who haven't taken a break so have worked on through (younger than thirty?). But you can see that mentality at most any college. Most people grow out of that mindset (or at least place less value upon it) within a few years, no matter where they live. The fact that you played college sports makes me wonder if you are one of those folks who genuinely enjoyed college and hate having to move beyond it.

The most intellectually exciting time of my life was when I was in law school. Loved it. Loved the debates and the discussions, the intellectual challenges, the thinking, the whole thing. I found it to be utterly thrilling. So I am not being anti-intellectual. But here is the deal. That is a time of life that is short and not usually something that continues. Real life and work takes more and more of your time and energy. Even if you fight like a tiger to stay in that mindset, I'm willing to bet that if you went back to the east coast in, say, five years, you'd not be able to resurrect your old groups for much more than a weekend to dream about glory days, complete with lots of drinking. Sad but true. It may well be that the loss of stimulating conversation is less about being in Oklahoma than that you are at a different place in your life.

You'll find a lot of liberals on this board who express a lot of the same frustrations as you have so maybe you could find some like minded souls, at least politically, on the board.

Good luck!

As for religion:

I think what I hate the most is how people around here use religion as a proxy for morality. Honestly, I think most people around here think that non-Christians are not to be trusted. That's so frustrating. Atheism is such a taboo around here. It's totally misunderstood. I do not need the threat of repercussion from God to treat people with dignity, or to have a strong sense of integrity. Christians who think a person needs the wrath and/or guidance of God to be decent or trustworthy need to take a deep look at the basis of their own morality.



.ps That's the most asinine thing I've ever had the misfortune of reading. No wonder you're lonely.

my education and ideologies are an inseparable part of me.

Yep.. nothin' here but a bunch of dumb Christianist hicks.

You're an adult. Figuring out how to meet people isn't hard. Especially if you're 'educated.'

This might involve getting out of your comfort zone and trying new things, but that's the price to pay when you change your surroundings.

What sort of things do you like to do ?

I was born and raised in Oklahoma, lived there for 37 of my 45 years (the other 8 in Texas) but have never been to a bonfire or shot a gun...yet, those things seem even more popular down here. I did play football and still enjoy a beer or two but have given up Coors Light as a regular for Shiner...but I like other things as well that don't jibe too well with the "restricted mindset" folks.

I have found most of the "atheists" that I have known to be of two flavors, the non-religious type of person to who understands that Christianity is the dominate faith (especially in this part of the country) and accepts that as a condition of living most places, even if they do so begrudgingly. I have also known what I call the "religious atheists", the ones who treat their atheism with an almost religious like fervor and are willing to "inflict their religious view" with the passion of a street corner preacher. I dislike anyone trying to preach at me no matter what side of the fence they are on. I have also known many Christians who enjoy discussing faith issues (or pretty much anything else) and most have little patience with the "sheep like" followers who do not read the Bible and think for themselves but only follow the Bible as they are instructed. They exist there, you may have to venture out to find them but they are out there. Not every Christian is a Bible thumper just like not every atheist wears their "non-belief" as a badge.

I know years ago there used to be some places in The Paseo where the artists types hung out (I knew a few who had studios there). You might try getting involved in the arts community if nothing more than going to some shows or openings, that seemed to be where most of the "non-religious types" are involved and engaged.

Hey everybody,

I have joined this forum in a self-admittedly somewhat pathetic attempt to find new ways to meet people in Oklahoma City.

I relocated here for work after having lived on the East Coast (in large cities) for several years. The cultural adjustment has been...difficult.

The thing is, I'm quite liberal, I don't care about college football, and (gasp) I'm an atheist.

While bonfires, shooting guns, playing football, and drinking beer are a hell of a lot of fun, my education and ideologies are an inseparable part of me. I love knowledge, and want to find people who spend a lot of time thinking. I can't pretend to be something I'm not. And, while I played sports growing up and even at the collegiate level, these days I care a lot more about science and books than I do about Boomer Sooner football. I am definitely not Sooner Born and Sooner Bred.

As for religion:

I think what I hate the most is how people around here use religion as a proxy for morality. Honestly, I think most people around here think that non-Christians are not to be trusted. That's so frustrating. Atheism is such a taboo around here. It's totally misunderstood. I do not need the threat of repercussion from God to treat people with dignity, or to have a strong sense of integrity. Christians who think a person needs the wrath and/or guidance of God to be decent or trustworthy need to take a deep look at the basis of their own morality.

I once told somebody here in OKC that I was an atheist and she covered my mouth as if to say, "You surely don't mean that. You can't say that here."

I just want to know what I can do to make some real friends who I can relate to, and who can relate to me.

I've been here for almost two years now and I still feel utterly alone. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Have you done any checking around for atheists groups here in OKC? I did a google search and there seems to be a few places that should interest you. Got this information from the first page of google. I'm sure there's a lot more if you care to do a search.

The Oklahoma City Atheists Meetup Group (Oklahoma City, OK) - Meetup.com (http://atheists.meetup.com/144/)
About the Oklahoma Atheists (http://aok.taxreligion.org/about/about.html)
MySpace.com - Oklahoma Atheists - 100 - Male - OKLAHOMA CITY, Oklahoma - www.myspace.com/aok2think (http://www.myspace.com/aok2think)

Have you read the Gazette newspaper? It's pretty liberal and I'm sure you can find some places of interest there as well. It's a weekly or bi-weekly paper (not sure).
Here's a link http://www.okgazette.com/p/12730/Default.aspx

Hope you find some like minded friends here. I believe you will if you seriously search for them. Good luck!

There are plenty of intellectually inclined folks in Oklahoma. But the intellectual elite living in Oklahoma tend to be well rounded enough to respect and enjoy the less high brow joys of the state, as well.


Well said.:congrats:

Also, what's all this talk about bonfires? I've lived here most of my life and- ironically enough- the only bonfire I've ever been to was on the east coast. Where do I go about finding one? Sounds like fun...

Hmm...I was born on the East Coast, educated in a high-brow New England prep school and in the Ivy League (as well as at OU, btw), and not only did I choose to move to Oklahoma City, but I love it here.

Oh yeah, I live in a beautiful house that is *not* in foreclosure, like 1 of 9 on the east coast.

Rather than worrying so much about how much better you are than everyone here, why dont you get over yourself and go have some fun. That is probably a more successful way to meet new friends....

ur riting that thur hard to reed

Sounds like typical east-coast Ivy-league culture shock to me. Let me guess...Cambridge, probably MIT, likely a "Beta". Yeah, you're going to have some adjustments to make. Don't fight it, embrace the new experiences that come your way. Don't worry, it won't make you suddenly start saying "yeehaw", swigging whiskey and attending the local baptist church with a hangover. If you can set aside your stringent requirements for intellecual stimulation for just a bit, you will probably become good friends with quite a few people who will accept you and your views, even though they might disagree with you - as long as you don't try to cram those views down their throat. Voicing your derisive opinion on stereotypical behaviour concerning some of the less highbrow pastimes will only ensure your continued lonliness. Good luck.

Let me guess...Cambridge, probably MIT, likely a "Beta".

There's no way this was just a guess. Do I know you?



To everybody else on the board:

I appreciate the responses. I really do. I'm not as much of a snob as I may have seemed from my original post. I guess it is just that, at this point, I'm pretty frustrated with the decline of my social life since moving to Oklahoma and I'm looking for external things to blame.

East Coast Okie nailed me too. I'm about a year and a half out of an Ivy-League graduate school...one which I attended straight out of undergrad. And I am young (early 20's). I'm sure that shapes my ideologies. Still, I love to study and spend a lot of time doing it. I sincerely
hope that never changes.

I have some very conservative friends back home, as well as friends of many religions. So, I know in my heart that these are not the things that are really the problem. I'm not sure what is, but I guess I cited those things because I'm looking to find common ground where I can find people who are different in the same ways I am...and my politics and religious beliefs are two salient ways in which I deviate from the norm in Oklahoma.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I've been an a*hole, and I appreciate everybody calling me on it. My frustration is sincere, but it has caused me to say some things to extremes that are not reflective of my true personality.

I'd suggest re-reading your post and asking yourself if you'd be interested in hanging out with a person who sounds so self-consumed and patronizing.

i have views on a lot of things the same as you do.

as for religion, i dont like to talk about any of it. everyone has their own views on it and they start judging others on what they believe. so i just stay out of it.

and football, shooting things, blowing things up and racing are all fun. but not a thinking mans sort of stuff. when it comes to cars and racing, i get into the technical stuff. mostly the electronics and technology. i leave most of the heavy gear head work to my bro since he gets mechanical better than i do.

there are others out here, but it is hard to find them. but you are glad to have made friends like them.

terveloc-

I attended a liberal arts school here in this state and I still had problems adjusting to post-college life. Where would you be meeting friends if you were still on the east coast? I imagine whatever the answer is, you can find the same outlets here in OKC, you might just have to look a little harder. I promise you there are plenty of intellectual types here, of the Christian and non-Christian variety. Let us know if we can help in any specific way.

There's no way this was just a guess. Do I know you?



To everybody else on the board:

I appreciate the responses. I really do. I'm not as much of a snob as I may have seemed from my original post. I guess it is just that, at this point, I'm pretty frustrated with the decline of my social life since moving to Oklahoma and I'm looking for external things to blame.

East Coast Okie nailed me too. I'm about a year and a half out of an Ivy-League graduate school...one which I attended straight out of undergrad. And I am young (early 20's). I'm sure that shapes my ideologies. Still, I love to study and spend a lot of time doing it. I sincerely
hope that never changes.

I have some very conservative friends back home, as well as friends of many religions. So, I know in my heart that these are not the things that are really the problem. I'm not sure what is, but I guess I cited those things because I'm looking to find common ground where I can find people who are different in the same ways I am...and my politics and religious beliefs are two salient ways in which I deviate from the norm in Oklahoma.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I've been an a*hole, and I appreciate everybody calling me on it. My frustration is sincere, but it has caused me to say some things to extremes that are not reflective of my true personality.

Hey, you're no a*hole. You're frustrated and obviously missing what you had back east. That's understandable. I hope that some of the suggestions and ideas that were shared with you on this thread help lead you in the right direction. Like jbrown84 says, if there's any specific way we can help you, or answer any more of your questions, just ask! Hope things are getting a little better for you now.

Hey, you're no a*hole. You're frustrated and obviously missing what you had back east. That's understandable. I hope that some of the suggestions and ideas that were shared with you on this thread help lead you in the right direction. Like jbrown84 says, if there's any specific way we can help you, or answer any more of your questions, just ask! Hope things are getting a little better for you now.gwb, remember when you said that I must not understand humor? Wrong, because this is one of the funniest fricking things I've ever seen. Don't get me wrong, even though it's nothing more than insincere, condescending bull****, doesn't mean it's not funny.

terveloc,

find you a bonfire. Go. Hang around long after everyone else is gone. Watch the final embers die. Check it off your list.

If you enjoyed it, add it back to the bottom of the list, and do it again sometime.

The rest is just sucking it up, introducing yourself to folks, and accepting some are accepting of folks at face value, others are not. Smile to the latter and wish them well, and leave them in the rear view mirror.

gwb, remember when you said that I must not understand humor? Wrong, because this is one of the funniest fricking things I've ever seen. Don't get me wrong, even though it's nothing more than insincere, condescending bull****, doesn't mean it's not funny.

This is a typical judgmental comment by a liberal who thinks they know the heart and mind of someone they've never met before. You make a complete idiot of yourself writing stuff like this. I seriously feel sorry for you. It's been said that liberalism a "mental disease". The stuff you write on this forum certainly lends credence to this viewpoint.

While bonfires, shooting guns, playing football, and drinking beer are a hell of a lot of fun, my education and ideologies are an inseparable part of me.


Your narrow-minded implication that those activities are all we do 'round these parts certainly doesn't motivate me to give you the skinny on anything. Just saying- maybe your attitude could use a small adjustment too. I thrive here in OKC and basically none of my free time is wrapped up in religion or church.

Church is fun. Once a week. So are bonfires and shooting. Once a week or so. Football is a blast, if I can play. I'd rather go to the dentist than to sit thru a college football game. I even went to OU and I couldn't care less about their football program. Or anyone else's for that matter. *yawn*

The only thing worth wrapping one's time up daily with is family. (and skating the bowls. heh....)

There's no way this was just a guess. Do I know you?

:irule: :LolLolLol

No, I don't think we're acquainted. Does your user name "terveloc" refer to terminal velocity? Maybe you're a physics or math guy? If so, are you on an applied career track or are you into teaching? Just curious. :tiphat:

MadMonk, you're good, I had the name terveloc pegged as a Vulcan wannebe name.
heh....

edit: no offense intended, I was thinking Tuvok. LOL

I was born an Okie (I was born in Norman) and now unfortunately live in New York City. I would give anything to be back in Oklahoma. I attended Central State University (now University of Central Oklahoma), later on I went to CalState Sacramento and went to the Army Engineer School at Fort Leonard Wood, MO. I then went to the Royal Military College of Science at Cranfield, UK. Cranfield is one of the top universities in the world and ranks with MIT. After this, I was sent to Oxford University, Queens College. After all of this, I was sent to South Africa where I was trained at the University of the Witwatersrand.

I ended up serving with the US Army Corps of Engineers and after retirement, started studying Egyptology.

Oklahoma University as well as Oklahoma State University are highly regarded universities nationwide. OU is ranked first per capita among public universities in enrollment of National Merit Scholars and among the top five in the graduation of Rhodes Scholars! The Carnegie Foundation classifies it as a research university with "high research activity. The National Weather Center and the Stephenson Research and Technology Center make up a part of the OU Reasearch Park. OU is highly rated by the American Meteorological Association. The OU Health Sciences Center is rated among the top five medical research facilities in the US and right behind Johns Hopkins Research Hospital. Famous OU graduates include shuttle astronaut Shannon Lucid, Apollo 13 astronaut Fred Haise, actors James Garner and Van Heflin and numerous politicians.

Oklahoma State University is also an excellent university and offers programs that excel in the areas of Agricultural Sciences and Natural Resources, Engineering, Architecture, and Technology, and Veterinary Health Sciences. It has been named a Truman Honor Institution for its success in producing Truman scholars.

OSU is one of five U.S. universities where Sun Grant Research Initiative programs have been established by the U.S. Congress in the Sun Grant Research Initiative Act of 2003 for the purposes of researching and developing sustainable and environmentally-friendly bio-based energy alternatives.

The OSU Math Department has been recognized by the American Mathematics Association as one of four innovative programs in the nation and has produced five Sloan Fellows, which is equal to MIT. The U.S. National Security Agency chose OSU as a National Center of Academic Excellence for Information Assurance Education in 2005.
Billionaire T. Boone Pickens is an OSU graduate as is the singers Garth Brooks and Hoyt Axton. Other grads include former acting Surgeon General of the United States Robert A. Whitney, Oklahoma Supreme Court Justice Steven W. Taylor and legal scholar Anita Hill.

For some reason which I cannot understand, my brother who earned his undergraduate degree at OU went to OSU and earned his Master's degree and almost immediately started spouting off about how OSU taught him critical thinking. He started acting like he was so much smarter than anyone else in the family. Not long after, he gave up his religious life and is now somewhere between an agnostic and an atheist. He spouts the words of Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and Susan Neiman.

"Francis Schaeffer said that secular man can only live in the lower storey (secular world) by borrowing from the upper storey (spiritual world). In other words, atheists can only talk about ethics because they are immersed in a social structure sustained by the "mythology" they reject. They borrow ethics from God and then claim that these ethics exist without a transcendent law-giving God to uphold them. What the atheists cannot explain is how they justify their ethical standards." - Steve Alderman, American Thinker

Nietzsche had a more rational answer for a God-less world, and his atheism was at least intellectually honest. The superman does not need an objective moral standard -- he makes his own and imposes it on the weaker.

I do think that there are varying degrees of atheism and some types are just another word for naturalism or the desire to see evidence of a supernatural experience. Since there is no evidence of God, they reject the idea of God. Today's popular atheists are defined philosophically as "vitriolic" atheists. They aren't like Nietzsche who was rational and logical. They attack religions (especially Christianity) with a fervor.

I HIGHLY recommend that you read the book The End of Reason by Ravi Zacharias. Ravi Zacharias received his Masters of Divinity from Trinity International University in Deerfield, Illinois. Well-versed in the disciplines of comparative religions, cults, and philosophy, he held the chair of Evangelism and Contemporary Thought at Alliance Theological Seminary for three and a half years. Mr. Zacharias has been honored by the conferring of a Doctor of Divinity degree both from Houghton College, NY, and from Tyndale College and Seminary, Toronto, and a Doctor of Laws degree from Asbury College in Kentucky. He is presently Visiting Lecturer at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University in Oxford, England.

I see ALOT of problems with organized religion but I do believe that the world did not come from nothing.

Them dang aggies sure are smart.

(No seriously. My Dad and Brother are OSU Alums. Each own a very successful business.)

Well stated OSUCowboy1975!

I was born an Okie (I was born in Norman) and now unfortunately live in New York City. I would give anything to be back in Oklahoma. I attended Central State University (now University of Central Oklahoma), later on I went to CalState Sacramento and went to the Army Engineer School at Fort Leonard Wood, MO. I then went to the Royal Military College of Science at Cranfield, UK. Cranfield is one of the top universities in the world and ranks with MIT. After this, I was sent to Oxford University, Queens College. After all of this, I was sent to South Africa where I was trained at the University of the Witwatersrand.

I ended up serving with the US Army Corps of Engineers and after retirement, started studying Egyptology.

Oklahoma University as well as Oklahoma State University are highly regarded universities nationwide. OU is ranked first per capita among public universities in enrollment of National Merit Scholars and among the top five in the graduation of Rhodes Scholars! The Carnegie Foundation classifies it as a research university with "high research activity. The National Weather Center and the Stephenson Research and Technology Center make up a part of the OU Reasearch Park. OU is highly rated by the American Meteorological Association. The OU Health Sciences Center is rated among the top five medical research facilities in the US and right behind Johns Hopkins Research Hospital. Famous OU graduates include shuttle astronaut Shannon Lucid, Apollo 13 astronaut Fred Haise, actors James Garner and Van Heflin and numerous politicians.

Oklahoma State University is also an excellent university and offers programs that excel in the areas of Agricultural Sciences and Natural Resources, Engineering, Architecture, and Technology, and Veterinary Health Sciences. It has been named a Truman Honor Institution for its success in producing Truman scholars.

OSU is one of five U.S. universities where Sun Grant Research Initiative programs have been established by the U.S. Congress in the Sun Grant Research Initiative Act of 2003 for the purposes of researching and developing sustainable and environmentally-friendly bio-based energy alternatives.

The OSU Math Department has been recognized by the American Mathematics Association as one of four innovative programs in the nation and has produced five Sloan Fellows, which is equal to MIT. The U.S. National Security Agency chose OSU as a National Center of Academic Excellence for Information Assurance Education in 2005.
Billionaire T. Boone Pickens is an OSU graduate as is the singers Garth Brooks and Hoyt Axton. Other grads include former acting Surgeon General of the United States Robert A. Whitney, Oklahoma Supreme Court Justice Steven W. Taylor and legal scholar Anita Hill.

For some reason which I cannot understand, my brother who earned his undergraduate degree at OU went to OSU and earned his Master's degree and almost immediately started spouting off about how OSU taught him critical thinking. He started acting like he was so much smarter than anyone else in the family. Not long after, he gave up his religious life and is now somewhere between an agnostic and an atheist. He spouts the words of Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and Susan Neiman.

"Francis Schaeffer said that secular man can only live in the lower storey (secular world) by borrowing from the upper storey (spiritual world). In other words, atheists can only talk about ethics because they are immersed in a social structure sustained by the "mythology" they reject. They borrow ethics from God and then claim that these ethics exist without a transcendent law-giving God to uphold them. What the atheists cannot explain is how they justify their ethical standards." - Steve Alderman, American Thinker

Nietzsche had a more rational answer for a God-less world, and his atheism was at least intellectually honest. The superman does not need an objective moral standard -- he makes his own and imposes it on the weaker.

I do think that there are varying degrees of atheism and some types are just another word for naturalism or the desire to see evidence of a supernatural experience. Since there is no evidence of God, they reject the idea of God. Today's popular atheists are defined philosophically as "vitriolic" atheists. They aren't like Nietzsche who was rational and logical. They attack religions (especially Christianity) with a fervor.

I HIGHLY recommend that you read the book The End of Reason by Ravi Zacharias. Ravi Zacharias received his Masters of Divinity from Trinity International University in Deerfield, Illinois. Well-versed in the disciplines of comparative religions, cults, and philosophy, he held the chair of Evangelism and Contemporary Thought at Alliance Theological Seminary for three and a half years. Mr. Zacharias has been honored by the conferring of a Doctor of Divinity degree both from Houghton College, NY, and from Tyndale College and Seminary, Toronto, and a Doctor of Laws degree from Asbury College in Kentucky. He is presently Visiting Lecturer at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford University in Oxford, England.

I see ALOT of problems with organized religion but I do believe that the world did not come from nothing.

And the liberals here in OK (all three of them,or is it four, I lost count) tell us we're just a bunch of redneck hillbillies who don't have an ounce of intelligence. Good post man! :congrats:

I know the first thing I ask new people I meet is, "What religion are you?".

Come on, you need to get the chip off your shoulder, I have found people here to be very tolerant and non judgmental, there are exceptions.

You need to decide what your interests are and seek out those groups. They are here.

You seem to have a big brain Cowboy75. Good post!

Tervel....

Let me ask you something.......what if you were living in, say, Costa Rica or Thailand or Morocco? Would you continually think you had nothing in common with anyone....or would you go out, hit the pub, mosque, community center, etc....to learn and make contact as much as possible with the locals?

Sounds like an odd analogy but it's not far off. Culturally speaking, Oklahoma City is not a New York, Boston or DC. You will to make some adjustments to get used to some of the comments about religion, politics and RACE. Yes, I said it. Some of the statements I hear around here about race frustrate me. But you have to expect mostly warmth from folks. Oklahomans are extremely friendly and alot more 'cultured' than you give them credit for.

You've got to put some effort into it. I've been here two years.....can honestly admit to missing life overseas......but after some time and some new connections, things get better.

It starts with attitude.

Being raised by "East coast" parents (The Bronx) upon our transfer to Oklahoma in 1968, there is really only one thing I can say: Never in your life, will you meet people that treat you like they've known you forever, will always say hello, give a wave, smile regularly, and most importantly, treat you nicer.......than the good people of Oklahoma.

Stereo-typing is NOT the best of ways to make friends. Perhaps a pleasant hello "My name is" and I am new to the area? Break the ice and learn exactly what Oklahomans are about.

Bond fires and football? Give the people of this state a little more credit than that. Have you seen that Oklahoma set the bar in combatting meth making and distribution? Lots to learn here....I suggest you check out the history of this state before passing judgement on its people.

I don't know who you people hang out with or where you go, but in my 35 years of having friends the only place I have ever been asked about Jesus is my house when they come around to the front door on bicycles. I have a wide variety of friends and none of them ever discuss religion unless we are at church or a church function. They also never discuss football unless it's football saturday. We have a lot of fun and our activities range from a sports game, to camping, rock climbing, art exhibits, lectures, film festivals, live music, skate park, bowling, movies, antique shopping, cooking, horse back riding, concerts, etc...it could go on and on. Branch out. Try different things. Meet different people.

Never in your life, will you meet people that treat you like they've known you forever, will always say hello, give a wave, smile regularly, and most importantly, treat you nicer.......than the good people of Oklahoma.

lol, just read the responses to your post to test this theory... I kid, I kid.

Good luck in finding some new friends... it takes time, but being from California and living here 6 years, I can relate to what you are saying. It is different.

But, you will eventually find some things that interest you and I do agree with some of the advice, give new people the benefit of the doubt and don't assume that they are all into religion and football.. just a good percentage of them.

...don't assume that they are all into religion and football.. This is true. That only accounts for about half the people. For the other half, football IS a religion! lol

This is true. That only accounts for about half the people. For the other half, football IS a religion! lol

Hahaha!

I was raised in a small town in northeast OK. I never really traveled much so OK was all I knew. I moved to Chicago to finish my education for 4 years and then to Cleveland, OH for a year. I've been in OKC for nearly 8 months now (with my girlfriend from OH). Since my return, me and my girlfriend both have had a hard time making friends. I know I changed during my time away but I never imagined it would be this hard when I returned. I'm not complaining, my girlfriend keeps me busy during my free time. It's just odd to think of all the friends I made while away compared to being here. It's tough in OK.

No it isn't! Pick up a hobby. I mentioned this in another thread. I outgrew all my old drinkin buddy friends, and the others either died or went to jail. I raise my two kids alone, so I don't go out at night at all. WIth that said, I started inline skating at the skateparks, and now I have several very good friends as a result.

Other hobbies conducive to making friends:
Speed skating/Rec skating
Skateboarding
BMX
Kiteboard
Windsailing
R/C cars
Mountain biking
Bowling
Golf
Volleyball
Softball
Football
Basketball
the list goes on and on.

Sports not your thing? Try other hobbies. LAN parties, car clubs, wine tasting, cigar enthusiasts, music (join a band),

The key is is to find like minded folk, and meet up with them a couple times a week to enjoy your mutual hobby. No need to discuss politics, religion, or educational proclivities. Just enjoy your hobby with them, and see where it goes. I got lucky and made some friends with some very nice people and we enjoy each other's company outside of our skating.

Good luck!

I have lived all over the U.S. and have never had any trouble making new friends. I think if you are friendly and polite friends will happen, doesn't really matter where you are.

gen70: Somepeople never meet a stranger!

I was going to write something lengthing but the rest of you did so well. I'll only add that trying to find friends who think they are superior to everyone else isn't a real easy thing to do in Oklahoma.

Native, like someone said earlier in this thread, you said you met lots of folks while living in Chicago...could that be b/c you were in school surrounded by lots of people doing the same thing? Pretty easy to meet people, but when you are just working and living with the girlfriend, yea, it is a different situation...not so much that it is Oklahoma.

I struggle with finding a social life and I am a year and a half out of undergrad from OU and I'm from the OKC metro area originally. The biggest pieces of advice I have received from friends who were already out of college whenever I graduated was that the real world takes getting used it... it's not like college at all. And sometimes you think your life is so boring that what you are used to. But it's just the nature of the beast of being in the "real world".

I know there is a young professionals group in OKC called "Alliance of Emerging Professionals" and you should check it out. I'm pretty sure they won't ask you if Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior within your conversations with them... The Paseo area is also pretty fun and diverse.

The Paseo is diverse?

Yeah, check out Isis if you wanna hang with a bar full of rich, white kids who think they are cultured by drinking German beer, smoking hookah and listening to Indian music.....meanwhile not being caught dead with actual people from those cultures.

:LolLolLol

The Paseo is diverse?

Yeah, check out Isis if you wanna hang with a bar full of rich, white kids who think they are cultured by drinking German beer, smoking hookah and listening to Indian music.....meanwhile not being caught dead with actual people from those cultures.

:LolLolLol

I'd undoubtedly get in a fight in a joint like that......:fighting3

The Paseo is diverse?

Yeah, check out Isis if you wanna hang with a bar full of rich, white kids who think they are cultured by drinking German beer, smoking hookah and listening to Indian music.....meanwhile not being caught dead with actual people from those cultures.

:LolLolLol

I'd undoubtedly get in a fight in a joint like that......:fighting30

Well "having a terrible time in OKC",

I think that you should give people in Oklahoma a chance. For starters, the people that you are looking for are probably in the same situation as you. My friends and I often ask each other where other people like us are located.
Personally, I found that during the elections I would bang my head against the walls (figuratively) :fighting2 as people talked about the fact that they couldn't "trust" someone with different "morals" than them. Unfortunately, it is just part of the lifestyle here that people are often brainwashed into believing certain things are the truth and not being open to other things.

To make matters worse, I moved from Oklahoma City to Lawton (about 1 1/2 hours away). I thought I would die; however, a couple of months ago I started going to wine tasting sessions with co-workers. We were able to move past the facades that many of us feel like we must live by and were able to meet many other progressive thinkers. Have you tried anyone in your workplace? If not, you might try something like wine tastings and such in the Oklahoma City area as a place to mingle and just get to know different people.

As a Sooner alumni...I must say that there is much more to the University of Oklahoma than football. I was in the College of Arts and Sciences and many people shared similar ideologies as you. You might also try different seminars and events on the campuses of various universities as a place to meet others as well.

Good Luck

I cant figure this stuff out

I was raised in a small town in northeast OK. I never really traveled much so OK was all I knew. I moved to Chicago to finish my education for 4 years and then to Cleveland, OH for a year. I've been in OKC for nearly 8 months now (with my girlfriend from OH). Since my return, me and my girlfriend both have had a hard time making friends. I know I changed during my time away but I never imagined it would be this hard when I returned. I'm not complaining, my girlfriend keeps me busy during my free time. It's just odd to think of all the friends I made while away compared to being here. It's tough in OK.

Again I have to ask: What is different here? How did you meet friends in Ohio? The transition from college life to working life is difficult no matter where you are. You just have to find new outlets.

I was raised in a small town in northeast OK. I never really traveled much so OK was all I knew. I moved to Chicago to finish my education for 4 years and then to Cleveland, OH for a year. I've been in OKC for nearly 8 months now (with my girlfriend from OH). Since my return, me and my girlfriend both have had a hard time making friends. I know I changed during my time away but I never imagined it would be this hard when I returned. I'm not complaining, my girlfriend keeps me busy during my free time. It's just odd to think of all the friends I made while away compared to being here. It's tough in OK.

Now imagine what it was like as a Detroiter trying to live and work in OKC for the two weeks I did..what a rude awakening I was hit with after several years of thinking it would be a good thing...then doing it only to have people at work treat you like you were there to steal their jobs..

Although it was worth the experience I must say it showed me that people everywhere are no different then the next..

No matter where ya go, there ya are!

Sounds like some of you unhappy okies see yourself and others through a religious and political lens.

As a devout apatheist and a libertarian, you don't sound much different from some of the folks you're looking down on.

Just my two cents.

Meh....as if 2 cents will buy anything these days. You'll need at least a quarter. Heh....

Hey everybody,

I have joined this forum in a self-admittedly somewhat pathetic attempt to find new ways to meet people in Oklahoma City.

I relocated here for work after having lived on the East Coast (in large cities) for several years. The cultural adjustment has been...difficult.

The thing is, I'm quite liberal, I don't care about college football, and (gasp) I'm an atheist.

While bonfires, shooting guns, playing football, and drinking beer are a hell of a lot of fun, my education and ideologies are an inseparable part of me. I love knowledge, and want to find people who spend a lot of time thinking. I can't pretend to be something I'm not. And, while I played sports growing up and even at the collegiate level, these days I care a lot more about science and books than I do about Boomer Sooner football. I am definitely not Sooner Born and Sooner Bred.

As for religion:

I think what I hate the most is how people around here use religion as a proxy for morality. Honestly, I think most people around here think that non-Christians are not to be trusted. That's so frustrating. Atheism is such a taboo around here. It's totally misunderstood. I do not need the threat of repercussion from God to treat people with dignity, or to have a strong sense of integrity. Christians who think a person needs the wrath and/or guidance of God to be decent or trustworthy need to take a deep look at the basis of their own morality.

I once told somebody here in OKC that I was an atheist and she covered my mouth as if to say, "You surely don't mean that. You can't say that here."

I just want to know what I can do to make some real friends who I can relate to, and who can relate to me.

I've been here for almost two years now and I still feel utterly alone. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


While I don't have time to read everyone elses responses and this might have been mentioned before, heres my advice. Go where you can be yourself, and where there might be others like you there. I have met friends in the most unusual of places. Out on coutry roads while storm chasing. At get togethers with co-workers after work. You might not like them but they'll have friends you might like.

Go to Barnes and Noble and spend an afternoon, just be friendly, maybe offer to buy someone a cup of joe; and leave religion out of the conversation...lol....thats a little deep for a first meeting anyhows. Or you can meet people (real people) at the grocery store. Trust me I know this from experience. Helpless male shopper tactic. lol. Good luck

No matter where ya go, there ya are!

Heh heh.

Helpless male shopper tactic. lol.

it's almost evil in how well that works, Barney Stinson evil..

The key to having friends is to be good looking and have a keen sense of humor. Always be witty enough to say something funny. It works good, especially for getting friends with the opposite sex. If you have an ugly face and are boring, forget it.

It's easy to have a good time in OKC, and a better time when you see it fade from the rear view mirror.
8^)