View Full Version : Core To Shore gets one step closer



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metro
02-09-2009, 08:34 AM
Okay, I know warreng posted this in another thread, but I felt the topic really deserved a thread of it's own since its such a big issue facing our city and might get buried in the other thread. I do however find it odd Mick didn't mention the Ford Center as an original MAPS project, yet that was his big push to remodel that for the NBA. Oops.

Mapping Core to Shore
by Brian Brus
The Journal Record February 9, 2009

http://www.journalrecord.com/_images/articles/t_labsbb-state-of-OKC_MS%20CLOSE%20UP.jpg
Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett (Photo by Maike Sabolich)

OKLAHOMA CITY – When MAPS-3 finally shows up on voting ballots – before the end of the year, Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said – the temporary sales tax issue will likely represent a wide range of projects worth hundreds of millions of dollars.The question of exactly what projects city residents will be asked to support is yet to be decided, but it appears at least two Core to Shore elements will be included, he said. And because of their place in the city, they may even seem to be the heart of the initiative.

A massive redevelopment just south of downtown Oklahoma City is already under way as a two-mile stretch of the Interstate 40 crosstown is being constructed closer to the Oklahoma River. Once traffic is diverted to the new I-40, the old Interstate bridge will be razed and that thoroughfare converted to a main boulevard. City leaders describe all the projects planned to revitalize the zone as Core to Shore.

“We know Interstate 40 is going to be relocated,” Cornett said. “It’s more evident every day. … And you can see that 2012, when they expect to finish, is going to be here before you know it.”

“We know we’re going to be able to fund the boulevard using largely state money and then add some improvements of our own to make that the most special street this state has ever seen,” he said. “It will be the premier address in Oklahoma.”

“When you look at Oklahoma City with fresh eyes … and look around the country at other cities, what does Oklahoma City still lack to ascend to a new level?” said Cornett. “I think there are two elements: There’s public transit, that we do not fund and do not serve our citizens adequately. And then there’s a large gathering space downtown. We really need a Central Park that we can be proud of.”

The money needed to fund such a park, a new convention center nearby, and a fixed railway transportation system brings C2S to the intersection with MAPS-3.

The original MAPS, or Metropolitan Area Projects, was strongly approved by public vote in 1993 when residents established a 1-cent, five-year sales tax to fund nine projects, including the construction of the Bricktown Ballpark, renovation of the Cox Business Services Convention Center, and development of the Oklahoma River. A second package identified as Metropolitan Area Public Schools, or MAPS for Kids, kept that penny in play when voters easily passed two initiatives to fund local school districts. Seventy percent of revenue generated from that sales tax went to Oklahoma City Public Schools for the construction of new buildings, technology and other improvements.
Together, the two MAPS initiatives directly yielded more than $800 million in taxes. So the MAPS identification has been considered by many city leaders as an invaluable brand name.

But action on a MAPS-3 plan, which many expected last year, was pre-empted when voters passed a $120 million temporary sales tax for remodeling the Ford Center downtown to improve chances of luring an NBA team to the city. City leaders had originally intended to include arena upgrades in a larger package of developments, perhaps even MAPS-3. Because of the short deadline for the NBA board’s decision, the arena question was pushed ahead of schedule.

Cornett said it’s time to invest in the MAPS franchise again, even in a tough economy. When he was asked about the ramifications of failure, he said: “OK, so the economy’s not what we wish it was. Does that mean we want to stop creating jobs, which is what MAPS-3 is ultimately about? Does that mean we want to stop creating a city where people want to live? … If you don’t continue to invest in your city, then you’re going to stop the momentum that’s gotten us this far.”

As he recently told city leaders in the annual State of the City address, Cornett said the city needs a new convention center soon. If the public were to approve funding immediately to get started on a building to hold major entertainment and business events, it would take almost a decade for it to be finished. And by then the Cox Convention Center would be about 50 years old.

Although it’s generally accepted that convention centers are major economic engines that help attract tourism dollars – which means they end up helping to pay for their own construction – Cornett is still concerned that the public be able to easily identify some other benefit in Core to Shore projects to increase the likelihood of passage of MAPS-3. A massive public park would play that part, he said, as would a citywide public transit rail system of some sort, both of which were identified in a 2006 public survey as top interests of city residents.

“It’s easy to see the reasons that a park’s a great idea, and it’s easy to see that public transit serves everyone,” he said. “It takes a little more vision to see a 21st century convention center would help the city because it helps the economy.”

Those three components – convention center, park and mass transit – are a good place to start for MAPS-3, he said. After that, though, Cornett was reluctant to predict the direction of the package.

The sales tax question would have to be set for public vote by Cornett and the rest of the City Council, and for it to seamlessly take up when the last penny tax stops on April 1, 2010, city government must formally set an agenda for public discussions before the summer. The eight members of the council have repeatedly said they support a MAPS-3 package of some sort, but have not yet committed to what projects they would like to see included.
Councilwoman Meg Salyer said it’s likely that such a wide range of issues will be addressed in the final package that voters will likely find a majority they approve of and overlapping interests will carry the rest.

“That was certainly the case with MAPS,” she said. “There were elements that appealed to constituents all around the community.

“MAPS-3 certainly isn’t a done deal. We still need to have a lot of discussion with the citizenry,” she said. “As we begin to move forward, we’ll start to see some of the elements people are most interested in, based on timing and what we think the budget will likely be.”

Cornett said he’s always aware of the risk of city residents dividing themselves into regional sectors without appreciating the larger picture.
“Our citizens realize how important downtown is to the continuity of the city,” he said. “The quality of life, even in the other municipalities and the suburbs is affected by the vibrancy of downtown. And you’ve got to buy into that; you’ve got to realize that the excitement that the Ford Center and the canal and the ballpark all bring to Oklahoma City, brings a vibrancy 10 or 15 miles out away from the city’s core.”

Salyer, who represents one of the inner city wards, agreed with Cornett that Core to Shore projects will win support across Oklahoma City’s 620 square miles.

“As a former New Yorker, the value of Central Park to the entire five boroughs of central New York is unquantifiable,” she said. “There are great parks in other parts of the city, but Central Park is such an important gathering place for everybody in the community. It’s iconic. I think Oklahoma City deserves something like that of its own.”

Other JR links related to this story.
Central Park area integral to Core to Shore project
Core to Shore: What’s there now
Core to Shore: New developments expected to sprout up

metro
02-09-2009, 08:58 AM
Central Park area integral to Core to Shore projectby Marie Price
The Journal Record February 9, 2009
CLICK HERE (http://www.jdavidrhea.com/?p=229) to view a video presentation of Core to Shore.

http://www.journalrecord.com/_images/articles/t_labspark-events-center.jpg
An artist’s rendering of the Events Center in Central Park. (Courtesy rendering)

OKLAHOMA CITY – A foundational component of the Core to Shore project is to establish a public-space Central Park area, plans for which are still fluid, which would serve as a series of gathering and recreational spaces for all ages.The future park area is bordered on the north by what is now Interstate 40, which will become a boulevard. The park area is bordered on the south by what is to be the realigned I-40 crosstown, on the west by Hudson Avenue and on the east by Robinson Avenue.

Although the overall plan calls for at least one large open space called the Great Lawn, the park is intended to provide users with a choice of activities, sight-lines and urban breathing spaces as well.

Attorney Michael Laird was a member of the Core to Shore steering committee and is a past president and current board member of the Myriad Gardens Foundation.

Laird said one of the key things he gleaned from consultants is that the park should not be just a massive green swath with little in the way of smaller enclaves or multi-use areas to move visitors along or direct them into specific areas they might enjoy.
“Nobody knows how they’re supposed to behave in that environment,” Laird said.
Real parks are vibrant, he said.

“They’re organic things that live and breathe and they have multiple components to them,” Laird said.

It’s not a question of size, he added.

“It’s how they work and how people use them and how people can read from the park itself how they’re supposed to behave and what they’re supposed to do in there,” Laird said.

Oklahoma City Planning Director Russell Claus said it has not been determined exactly what will be in the park, which he described as “a placeholder for some of the ideas.”
“It’s more than green space,” Claus said.

The city will hire a park planner at some point, who will be asked to review Myriad Gardens and potential changes there, “who we are as a community, what has worked elsewhere, what we can do here that would support what our current needs are, but projecting out into the future as to what future demands will be, really trying to create a signature piece of open space,” Claus said.

There are multiple concepts behind the park, he added.

“One of them is to assist in providing a very clear connection down to the river,” Claus said.

He also said it was felt that the Myriad Gardens was not fulfilling the function of a true urban open-space area, as a gathering area programmed for multiple activities, part of which will be resolved through a separate redevelopment of the Myriad Gardens.

“The Core to Shore park will provide more of those and give us a true urban open space that services the entire community,” Claus said. “It is meant to operate as the city’s community gathering space.”

Claus said the park is intended to be a highly programmed area in terms of use.

“We would hope that there will be activity of all different kinds in that park at all times,” he said.

Claus said he sees the park as an area that could support existing events, such as the Festival of the Arts, Fourth of July and others.

He said the northern end of the park could be constructed to serve that purpose, a place where tents could be erected, with underground parking, as well as operational services such as bathrooms, electricity, water and storage that would not have to be transported in and out of the area.

Claus said Millenium Park and Grant Park in Chicago are both examples of what other cities have done to develop urban spaces in recognition of a new attitude toward downtown, with more people choosing to live there.

“Having an open space that suits their needs is critical,” he said. “Open spaces are being used as signature identifiers of communities.”

Claus said he does not know what the final design of the park will be, but he assumes some elements will be timeless and remain in place permanently.

“Then there will be flex-space, as well, where things will change as we as a community evolve,” he said.

Laird said that, depending upon its size, the Great Lawn could be an area for staging large events, drawing 25,000-50,000 people, something the city currently lacks.
He said it could also serve another function for downtown residents.

“You have this vast expanse of space that allows people to breathe,” Laird said.
As the park is currently envisioned, a children’s area and formal garden would lay south of the Great Lawn with a boat pond to the east of them.

“You have to put in things for all ages,” Laird said.

Discussions centering on the pond included the possibility of offering visitors small paddle boats, like those available in a park near Boston Common and other venues, he said. Laird said specifics of the pond depend upon its ultimate size, depth, location and other factors.

Laird said an interactive water feature was an object of discussion, perhaps similar to the one on the plaza in Bricktown, which is very popular with children.
“They spend a lot of time,” he said. “It draws them to it.”

Claus said a water feature could be added to the pond, to lure people to engage with it in a really hands-on fashion.

“In winter you could just freeze it, and that would become our permanent ice rink,” he said.

Claus said that dedicated space would be preferable to the temporary downtown skating setup used in recent years.

Laird said the panel also reviewed the concept of having smaller play areas with varied topography where younger children could safely crawl, climb and tumble around where their parents can comfortably watch them in pleasing surroundings.

“There are trees, there are canopies, sitting areas and reading areas, things like that,” he said of the idea.

Laird said successful parks also include hospitality functions, ranging from simple juice stands to full restaurants, pulling in private-sector vendors.
“That would provide a great draw,” he said.

Laird said the old Union Station, south of what was until recently a U.S. Postal Service terminal, could serve as a southern anchor for Central Park. An events center is planned for an area east of the station.

“I think it’s been underappreciated because of where it is, for a long time,” Laird said of Union Station.

He said it could serve as a facility for smaller educational, cultural, neighborhood and other types of events.

Laird said having such facilities that far south will also help lead people to areas closer to the river, such as the planned Promenade Park and the development planned for that area.

“Really what you’re doing is, you’re giving an easy way for pedestrians to wander between the northern part above the new I-40 down to the river,” he said.

Laird said the area could include tennis and basketball courts, running trails, trees and smaller green areas for residents’ use.

Claus said the goal is to have the park well on the way or constructed by the time the boulevard opens.

He said the city bought the old post office and is negotiating to acquire other property in the area.

“In terms of securing the rest of the funds that will be needed, both to acquire the park and to develop it, that will be left to something like MAPS-3,” Claus said. “I can’t predict that it would go on MAPS-3, but it’s a MAPS-3 type of project, and we will need something of that scale to be able to make this work.”

Claus said that whatever final form the park takes, it should carry a recognizable stamp for the city and state.

“We want this to be a unique Oklahoma experience,” he said. “This is the opportunity to provide an identity for Oklahoma City.”

metro
02-09-2009, 09:01 AM
Core to Shore: What’s there now
by Kelley Chambers
The Journal Record February 9, 2009

OKLAHOMA CITY – When Russell Claus looks south of downtown Oklahoma City he sees the future.When Bob Massey looks north toward downtown from his business he sees an uncertain future.

Claus, Oklahoma City’s planning director, is charged with overseeing an ambitious plan to redevelop 750 acres between the central business district and the north bank of the Oklahoma River.

Massey, owner of Massey’s Accessory Shop at 1319 S. Robinson Ave., runs the business his family started in 1927 and knows within the next few years the business will need to find a new home.

Meetings for the Core to Shore project began in 2006 to determine the best use of the land. One of the main motivators was the movement of Interstate 40 about seven blocks to the south by the Oklahoma Department of Transportation.

When the highway is moved, scheduled for completion in 2012, the existing bridges will come down and the city has plans for a grand boulevard. But many areas of Core to Shore are privately owned. Claus said that it is a long-range project.

“Because of the size of the area that we’re looking at it’s going to take a very long time to redevelop,” he said. “It will be several decades.”

For the next few years the city is focused on the area between the existing I-40 and the realigned highway.

One piece of the puzzle has already been purchased to contribute to a large park. The city recently acquired the former U.S. Postal Service main branch, at 320 SW Fifth St., after the City Council approved the $3.68 million purchase in March.

Claus said he would like to see the park completed by 2014 to coincide with the new boulevard.

Much of the rest of the area is still a big question mark for planners and property owners.
The area, bordered by Western Avenue on the west, Lincoln Boulevard and Byers Avenue on the east, the current Interstate 40 and the Oklahoma River on the south, is populated by vacant land, railroad tracks, salvage yards and old homes.

In 2008 the Core to Shore steering committee released its report that showed parks, residential units, a convention center and water features. Salvage yards are not in the cards.

Some property owners see it as a blessing as downtown eventually creeps south, while others wonder about the fate of businesses, many of which have been family-owned for decades.

Massey said he would prefer to be left alone. Initial drawings show a park where his business stands.

He said a move will be costly, and could hurt business.

“We’ve been on the street in excess of 80 years,” Massey said. “Customers know exactly where to come. I’ll lose all that residual business.”

Massey said he has received few reassurances from the city other than that Core to Shore will not reach his area until at least 2012. He said he has also received no indication how much the city would pay for his land, or if he would be compensated for a move.

“They claim they’re not going to put anybody out of business,” he said. “I don’t believe that.”

Massey said the city will also lose the area dubbed Hubcap Alley.

“We can find a new place, but we have a community where people come down because it’s nothing but automotive,” he said.

The Oklahoma County assessor’s office listed the market value of Massey’s building at $104,310 in 2008. Massey said he has no idea how much it would cost to pack up and move to a new site.

Claus met with Hubcap Alley owners last year and assured them that the city is acquiring the land it needs by negotiation. Any land not set for public use will remain with the owners. If an owner holds out, Claus said the city could take drastic measures like condemnation, a move he would prefer to avoid.

“That is certainly not the city’s first priority,” he said. “We would like to avoid it as much as possible.”

Claus told property owners the land in its current condition is not more valuable just because the city has its sights on certain parcels.

Mark Beffort, with Grubb & Ellis Levy Beffort, has been hired by the city to assist in acquisition of properties for Core to Shore. Beffort came on just after the post office deal, but will handle all future acquisitions from negotiation to closing.

For now, Beffort said, the city is looking no farther than the proposed park area. The city is considering several properties around the proposed park but nothing is under contract.

“Our primary concentration today is the park area and then one block off each side of the park,” Beffort said.

Beffort said it is a misconception that property owners can ask astronomical prices for their properties in negotiations with the city.

“Some people believe the property is worth ten times as much because the city wants to put the park down there,” he said. “It will have to be developed before it has more value.”

Other property owners have different plans for an inevitable move. Cusack Meats, at 301 SW 12th St., has been in business since 1933.

Owner Al Cusack has 25,000 square feet where he and about 30 employees prepare and package meat that is sent out around the United States. The company is on land slated for a park.

“My concern is, I have a federally inspected meat plant that manufactures product every day,” he said. “You can’t just snap your fingers and put one of these up overnight.”

Cusack too has been told that the city is not interested in his property until 2012, but he has started looking at options.

“We’re keeping our eyes open,” he said. And while Cusack said a new facility would be nice, it would likely take 18 months to build and cost more than $10 million.

“It would be beneficial to move but we’re in a great location right here,” he said.
Across the street from Massey is A&P Truck Salvage Co., at 1320 S. Robinson Ave. Stephen Akers is the third-generation owner, and sells parts for Jeeps around the world.

“It’s been a family business forever,” he said. Akers’ property is set to remain privately owned. “I’m on the money side,” he said.

But when it comes time for the area to develop, Akers does not plan on sticking around.
“I’m going to retire,” he said. “I’m 66 years old, I don’t have any kids, and nobody wants the place.”

Claus said when all is said and done, 20 percent to 25 percent of the Core to Shore area will be publicly owned, but plans are still in the very early stages.

“We’re trying to support the growth of the city by supporting the growth and redevelopment of downtown,” he said. “The success of any city is largely perceived by outsiders through their downtown. This will be an essential part of that image.”

metro
02-09-2009, 09:03 AM
Core to Shore: New developments expected to sprout up
by Kelley Chambers
The Journal Record February 9, 2009

http://www.journalrecord.com/_images/articles/t_labsretail-at-blvd.jpg
An artist’s rendering of businesses in the Core to Shore development. (Courtesy rendering)

OKLAHOMA CITY – The city of Oklahoma City wants a large park south of downtown. What will sprout up around that park remains to be seen.As the Core to Shore project begins to take shape over the next few decades, one of the first components will be a large green space, about 40 acres, tentatively dubbed Central Park. By comparison, Central Park in Manhattan is 843 acres. San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park is 1,017 acres.
Early plans call for multifamily housing on the east and west sides.

William Forrest, a multifamily broker with CB Richard Ellis Oklahoma, said high-density residential units facing the park would be a unique amenity new to the market.

“That’s an extremely viable idea,” he said. “I love the thought of having some quality multifamily in that location. What a nice setting.”

Phase I plans, targeted for completion in 2014, may also include a convention center, hotel and retail stores.

Most everything in the area will eventually be razed and replaced, but one building will play a key role on the park’s periphery.

“There are a couple of jewels down there,” said Oklahoma City Planning Director Russell Claus.

One of those jewels is Union Station, which will be one of the lone survivors along with the Little Flower Church. The station will anchor the south end of the park. The Core to Shore steering committee’s plans state it will have an adaptive reuse. Claus said he is not sure the exact role the station will play, but said it will not be torn down.

Union Station opened in 1931 and served the Frisco and Rock Island railroads until passenger service ceased here in the late 1960s.

In 1989 the station was purchased by the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority, which has its offices there.

Anthony McDermid, principal at TAParchitecture, was on the urban design team for Core to Shore that also included Colorado Springs-based URS Corp. and Omaha-based RDG.
McDermid said a park was part of the plan dating back to studies in the late 1990s about the realignment of Interstate 40.

“The idea for a green space was in the original mitigation plan but the size of the space grew,” he said. “It grew much larger as the design process evolved.”

But the city will not be the developer for residential and retail projects around the park.
“We have always contemplated that the park would be the catalyst for private development adjacent to the park,” McDermid said.

Claus echoed the sentiment, saying he wants to see development around the park that also embraces the design and feel of the park.

“I want to see a true urban engagement with the park,” he said.

Judy Hatfield, president and CEO of Equity Realty, said retail around the park should have a distinct Oklahoma flair.

“If you look at any large city around the world and you look at the kinds of things that surround a green space you’ll see that they’re full of little shops, cafes, bakeries and specialty shops exclusive to the region,” she said.

National retailers could also have a place, but Hatfield said not in the form of a large power center or strip mall.

“That’s not what people want to see,” she said.

Local entrepreneurs and celebrities could also play a key role in giving the area a touch of Oklahoma. Hatfield cited the success of country singer Toby Keith’s restaurant and bar in Bricktown.

With years to figure out the details, McDermid said the area around the park will no doubt be a desirable location for a mix of uses.

“The park is an environment that people will want to be close to,” he said. “We want this to be uniquely Oklahoma City and the thing we hope for is quality.”

JRDave
02-09-2009, 10:43 AM
You know, you can just drop a link to the whole package.... The Journal Record - Article (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=95830) Also, here is a link to the VIDEO (http://www.jdavidrhea.com/?p=229)

metro
02-09-2009, 10:49 AM
You know, you can just drop a link to the whole package.... The Journal Record - Article (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=95830) Also, here is a link to the VIDEO (http://www.jdavidrhea.com/?p=229)

yeah, but JR links don't last long unless your an online subscriber. info belongs to the masses for free! But yes, great job on the C2S special series!

shane453
02-09-2009, 10:55 AM
JRDave- pass along my thanks to the staff of the Journal Record who put together this set of articles. Really great stuff!

danielf1935
02-09-2009, 11:31 AM
Awesome articles Metro, thanks!!!!!!!!

warreng88
02-09-2009, 02:09 PM
Do we have any clue what the construction of the Central Park would cost? I would guess somewhere in the $20-25 million range, but honestly have no idea.

JRDave
02-09-2009, 03:39 PM
Thanks everyone. In fact, we've made this C2S material non-subscriber forever. It won't go back under the password firewall.

I will certainly pass along your good wishes to the staff - but hey, you can do it yourself over at the site too. Go HERE (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=95830) for the landing page and drop comments all you want.

onthestrip
02-09-2009, 03:43 PM
Do we have any clue what the construction of the Central Park would cost? I would guess somewhere in the $20-25 million range, but honestly have no idea.

Didnt the article say the park, as of now, is only going to be 40 acres? Unless you are figuring in property acquisitions, $20-25 mil sounds awfully expensive for a 40 acre park.

JRDave
02-09-2009, 03:47 PM
JRDave- pass along my thanks to the staff of the Journal Record who put together this set of articles. Really great stuff!

Will do!

warreng88
02-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Didnt the article say the park, as of now, is only going to be 40 acres? Unless you are figuring in property acquisitions, $20-25 mil sounds awfully expensive for a 40 acre park.

Again, I am not sure at all. I remembered that there was going to be parking available under the park though. Tried to research it but kept coming up with ballpark costs.

LordGerald
02-09-2009, 06:49 PM
Awesome articles Metro, thanks!!!!!!!!

Yes, metro did an awesome job cutting and pasting articles that he didn't write...

metro
02-10-2009, 07:55 AM
Yes, metro did an awesome job cutting and pasting articles that he didn't write...

you know it!

Jack D.
02-10-2009, 07:56 AM
Yes, metro did an awesome job cutting and pasting articles that he didn't write...

That's very enlightened of you. Most people have absolutely zero respect for the value of how information is *collected* and/or *presented* -- instead, we get silly little offhanded dismissals that "information should be free!" ... Yes, info itself should be disseminanted to the masses; but the people who break their backs putting it together initially have an investment that must be respected. Thus, "copyright" laws.

Amusingly enough, everyone on this board must agree to this contractual obligation upon registration: "Information copyrighted or owned by any individual or entity other than the member should not be posted on the discussion forums or software libraries without the consent of the owner."

So you want newspaper reporters to keep writing useful, informative features like the core-to-shore package? -- Stop Stealing Them.

danielf1935
02-10-2009, 08:07 AM
LordGerald, why are you being so shallow, at least he posted some valuable information, what have you done?

Jack D.
02-10-2009, 08:15 AM
LordGerald, why are you being so shallow, at least he posted some valuable information, what have you done?

Have you not heard of "copyright" protection? It's one of the legal points you have to agree to in order to register here. The wholesale reprinting of copyrighted material is a rip-off to the people who put time and energy into the original. ... And, yes, LordGerald is correct - it's a no-brainer to cut and paste all that text; "thanks" are inappropriate for that behavior.

metro
02-10-2009, 09:53 AM
Jack D, the site has permission to repost from most of the local papers.

danielf1935
02-10-2009, 09:58 AM
JackD--this is no way a copyright enfringement, all he did was copy/paste/post information to share with others, if would be different if he had implied that he authored this article.

soonerguru
02-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Have you not heard of "copyright" protection? It's one of the legal points you have to agree to in order to register here. The wholesale reprinting of copyrighted material is a rip-off to the people who put time and energy into the original. ... And, yes, LordGerald is correct - it's a no-brainer to cut and paste all that text; "thanks" are inappropriate for that behavior.

Hey Newbie, if you want to get along here don't act like a jerk. Pete and the moderators have an agreement to post the content of articles from the papers.

In the interest of fairness, it would be nice to include a link to the papers' content as well, to send them Web traffic.

danielf1935
02-10-2009, 11:12 AM
Well said soonerguru

Pete
02-10-2009, 11:55 AM
Yes, we have permission from The Oklahoman, Journal Record and OKC Business to post their articles here as long as we cite the source and link back to their publications.

It's a mutually beneficial arrangement and I (as the owner/operator of this site) am in frequent contact with representatives of those businesses.

dmoor82
02-11-2009, 08:02 PM
Yes, we have permission from The Oklahoman, Journal Record and OKC Business to post their articles here as long as we cite the source and link back to their publications.

It's a mutually beneficial arrangement and I (as the owner/operator of this site) am in frequent contact with representatives of those businesses.

snap,you told him-j/k:fighting3 you would think that a urban and talk forum as large as this one already had this one covered,cuz I'm sure nobody in here feels like getting sued!

AFCM
02-11-2009, 08:18 PM
Yes, we have permission from The Oklahoman, Journal Record and OKC Business to post their articles here as long as we cite the source and link back to their publications.

It only makes sense considering the news seems to break here first before making the rounds of contemporary media; it's a give and take relationship.:smile:

warreng88
04-08-2009, 08:12 AM
From the Journal Record:

Oklahoma City Council approves purchase of Goodwill headquarters
by Brian Brus

The Journal Record April 8, 2009

OKLAHOMA CITY – City Council members approved the purchase of the Oklahoma City headquarters of Goodwill Industries for $2.3 million Tuesday as part of the Core to Shore redevelopment near downtown.

The nonprofit charity will be allowed to continue to operate out of 410 SW Third St. until new offices are found, but no longer than June 30, 2010, the expected purchase agreement will stipulate. Goodwill’s leadership has been planning for relocation, organization spokeswoman Jennifer Bradford said. A committee is now working with city officials and a real estate agent “to find a location that meets our criteria so we can move forward,” she said.
The committee has a few potential sites in mind, but Bradford did not identify them.

“We’d like to stay in this area, but we’re pretty open,” she said. “As soon as we find something, we’ll be good to go. The city has been great to work with us on this, and we’re very happy to be part of the Core to Shore project and being part of a new downtown.”

In preparation for the relocation of Interstate 40 closer to the Oklahoma River, the City Council in late 2007 authorized City Manager Jim Couch’s staff to negotiate for the acquisition of land for civic uses along that new zone of development. The projects are collectively referred to as Core to Shore, and include plans for a massive public park and new businesses. The Goodwill property is in the transition area between the park and what will become the new main street boulevard leading into downtown once I-40 is razed.

The city recently issued a request for proposals from architecture and engineering firms for park construction concepts.

The 66,000-square-foot building currently houses all the organization’s executive offices, career development and job placement programs, and retail store processing. Goodwill is most well known for accepting donated items and selling them at low prices through its store chain. The headquarters property also houses one of those stores.

Assistant City Manager Cathy O’Connor said City Hall has no reason to evict Goodwill right away because specific plans for the property haven’t been decided yet. The general category of “civic uses” could include something like a museum or library, she said.

In the meantime, O’Connor said the organization will still be responsible for maintaining its own utilities, maintenance and insurance as a tenant, but will not pay rent.

City Hall’s first purchase offer after appraisal was accepted without further negotiation, O’Connor said. The City Council has already authorized the use of eminent domain to acquire property in the Core to Shore area, but only as a final option.

“We continue to negotiate with people to buy property,” she said.

City leaders are still discussing the role of the Urban Renewal Authority in the area and the possibility of letting that agency head private development projects, she said.

The Journal Record - Article (http://journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=97535)

metro
04-08-2009, 08:30 AM
Good to hear.

TStheThird
04-08-2009, 08:43 AM
Everything sounds good except the last line of the article. Why would we consider letting them ruin Core to Shore. I hope the planning committee or whoever makes extremely clear guidelines and restrictions so OCURA doesn't come in and jack it up.

BDP
04-08-2009, 10:12 AM
Yeah, that's the scariest thing I have read in a long time and I just finished reading The Stand.

Pete
04-08-2009, 11:01 AM
Here's an aerial that shows that property... Like everything else in that area it is a real eyesore.

The property highlighted in blue owned by the Salvation Army has to be next on the list.

Fortunately, all the Core to Shore properties are either blighted or vacant.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/goodwill1.jpg

metro
04-08-2009, 11:14 AM
Thanks Pete, while Ugly, the Goodwill property has stayed fairly clean and upkept, the Salvation Army property is another story... Nonetheless, I'm excited to see the City continuing to move forward on property aquisition. I'd love to see them bulldoze the properties they've already aquired and start land shaping and planting a few trees so by the time the park opens, we'll have some matured trees. Another thing to point out is the City owns the Postal Facility that is barely pictured in the top of your picture.

Pete
04-08-2009, 11:38 AM
What's interesting to note is that the Goodwill property is actually not part of the proposed park; it's on the western border (just to the left of item #5 below):

http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/plan2.jpg

Pete
04-08-2009, 11:47 AM
Here's a better aerial view:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/aerial2a.jpg

metro
04-08-2009, 11:53 AM
Pete, will there be park behind Union station to the river?

Pete
04-08-2009, 11:57 AM
This is the most recent concept drawing I could find:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/plan3.jpg

okclee
04-08-2009, 12:10 PM
do you have a link for the latest video production or other renderings?

Pete
04-08-2009, 12:12 PM
Here's the C2S city site (the video is under 'Download Mayor Mick's Presentation'):

City of Oklahoma City | Core to Shore (http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/index.html)

okclee
04-08-2009, 12:17 PM
thanks, pete

I guess that is all up to date. It seemed like there are so many different versions of the core to shore plan. Do we know if any of them are actually "official"?

Pete
04-08-2009, 12:24 PM
I think the ones I posted (same ones on the OKC city site) are the latest/greatest.

Of course, they are all just conceptual at this stage. But I do know that they are only proceeding with the first phase, which is everything north of the new I-40. As Metro mentioned, they already purchased the postal facility and now Goodwill... I suspect they are keeping their eyes and ears open on all the other properties in the area.

However, I doubt there is a strong push to acquire all the subject properties because they are going to need MAPS 3 (or something similar) to get the necessary funding.

And since it seems likely MAPS 3 will include plans for a new convention center, I bet the most immediate plan is to acquire all the land in that area as well as for the proposed park and properties that border it on the west (like Goodwill).

worthy cook
04-08-2009, 12:26 PM
I wish they would gather up some of those housing areas and make a condo tower out of them.

CuatrodeMayo
04-08-2009, 12:37 PM
I wish it was more dense, especially south of I-40. It's almost Edmond-ish.

Pete
04-08-2009, 12:39 PM
The area west of the park would be particularly well-suited for at least mid-rises if that is going to be residential.

At least that way there would be good views over the park and the skyline.

TaurusNYC
04-08-2009, 02:40 PM
I still hate the idea of isolating Myriad Gardens from the new central park with commercial development. I would prefer open space from the park to the CBD. I wonder if the plans can be changed.

metro
04-08-2009, 02:56 PM
I agree TaurusNYC, I too find that a bit odd, but it will still be great either way. I'd like to see the boulevard depressed on Reno aka new Boulevard for the part just south of the Myriad Gardens, and have the new park extend over the actual street area there and the boulevard go underneath it for two blocks and resurface by the Ford Center. Now that would be one impressive park and add many more acres to the park!

Architect2010
04-08-2009, 05:56 PM
Edmondish?

Yea. Right.

jbrown84
04-08-2009, 07:56 PM
I'd be in favor of any changes that expand the park size. I still think the park should go all the way to Walker and be the same width all the way to the river. That would look more aesthitically pleasing, like Central Park in New York. The park as is is like 1/100th the size of NYC's Central Park. We should just make the surrounding development taller and denser to make up for it. THINK BIG!



What's interesting to note is that the Goodwill property is actually not part of the proposed park; it's on the western border (just to the left of item #5 below):

Yes, but it's the site of the "event center" seen in renderings and the video.

warreng88
04-08-2009, 08:37 PM
Yes, but it's the site of the "event center" seen in renderings and the video.

Actually, the events center is supposed to be to the east of Union Station seen on the C2S renderings.

CuatrodeMayo
04-08-2009, 09:06 PM
Edmondish?

Yea. Right.

Lower Bricktown-ish.

Better?

keving
04-08-2009, 09:20 PM
I totally agree!


I'd be in favor of any changes that expand the park size. I still think the park should go all the way to Walker and be the same width all the way to the river. That would look more aesthitically pleasing, like Central Park in New York. The park as is is like 1/100th the size of NYC's Central Park. We should just make the surrounding development taller and denser to make up for it. THINK BIG!

stlokc
04-08-2009, 10:14 PM
Cuatro de Mayo-Your pithy "Lower Bricktown-ish" description hits the nail on the head, as far as I am concerned, and crystallizes something that has worried me about C2S ever since it was proposed. By clearing such a huge swath of land, is the city setting itself up for quasi-urban, 2-3 story development spread out over hundreds and hundreds of acres? How long will it take OKC to absorb all this new "urban" development? More to the point, we are spreading out lower-rise development throughout Deep Deuce/Triangle already, there is infill on the way (presumably) in Midtown and now all this in C2S. So let me ask: would the dense, liveability of inner OKC be better served, for example, if all the vacant lots in Midtown were eventually 8-10 story towers, with new buildings mixed with the old, thus creating a neighborhood more reminiscent of Lincoln Park in Chicago or at least Uptown Dallas? This is the best place for this type of development IMO because it provides a natural bridge between the thriving Heritage Hills area and the northern edge of downtown. I do fear that with so many choices coming on-line in different parts of downtown over the next decade, people will spread out and the overall effect will be mitigated. Will there ever be the density that is required of a true urban neighborhood?

Let me be clear - I am glad the city is embarking on the park part of the project, and I think the vision is grand and worthy of a large city. Big urban parks are fantastic gathering places...google Forest Park in St. Louis for a great example. I just hope that along with the park, we can do something in the blocks surrounding that truly takes OKC forward.

stlokc
04-08-2009, 10:26 PM
One other thing: Metro is really on to something with his proposal that the park act as a "bridge" over the boulevard and the highway. If you have ever been to downtown St. Louis, you know that the arch grounds is isolated from the CBD by a depressed interstate highway. It is the subject of much local discussion, because although there are bridges, the park is effectively cut off from the hotels and offices downtown. City leaders here are proposing a very expensive "lid" be put over the highway to draw together the park and the CBD. OKC has the opportunity to develop its park asthetically correct from the beginning. Just some food for thought.

betts
04-09-2009, 04:32 AM
Cuatro de Mayo-Your pithy "Lower Bricktown-ish" description hits the nail on the head, as far as I am concerned, and crystallizes something that has worried me about C2S ever since it was proposed. By clearing such a huge swath of land, is the city setting itself up for quasi-urban, 2-3 story development spread out over hundreds and hundreds of acres? How long will it take OKC to absorb all this new "urban" development? More to the point, we are spreading out lower-rise development throughout Deep Deuce/Triangle already, there is infill on the way (presumably) in Midtown and now all this in C2S. So let me ask: would the dense, liveability of inner OKC be better served, for example, if all the vacant lots in Midtown were eventually 8-10 story towers, with new buildings mixed with the old, thus creating a neighborhood more reminiscent of Lincoln Park in Chicago or at least Uptown Dallas? This is the best place for this type of development IMO because it provides a natural bridge between the thriving Heritage Hills area and the northern edge of downtown. I do fear that with so many choices coming on-line in different parts of downtown over the next decade, people will spread out and the overall effect will be mitigated. Will there ever be the density that is required of a true urban neighborhood?

Let me be clear - I am glad the city is embarking on the park part of the project, and I think the vision is grand and worthy of a large city. Big urban parks are fantastic gathering places...google Forest Park in St. Louis for a great example. I just hope that along with the park, we can do something in the blocks surrounding that truly takes OKC forward.

My question would be: do we have to have only 8 to 10 story towers to have a true urban neighborhood? My favorite part of Chicago residential areas is not towers of apartments, but rather the row houses. The same holds true for Boston and the nicer parts of New York City, IMO. If we want a mixture of people living in downtown Oklahoma City, then we need both residential development that works better for families as well as higher density housing. A true urban "neighborhood" can be a very attractive option for people in all different stages of life, but to create a neighborhood, we've got to get people out on the streets. I don't necessarily see taller, more dense housing as as conducive to that as a mixture of higher and lower density housing. It would also be nice to make the area around the park visually attractive, and I think differing heights of residential options is more conducive to that, personally.

I suppose, since I will be living in Maywood Park and I like that type of development, it reveals a bias for townhouse development, but I don't see that as "anti-urban".

kevinpate
04-09-2009, 07:26 AM
for the city to have the park, some vacant land gets got, some not so vacant land as well. that which isn't vacant will land elsewhere. Any word on whose straw gets drawn regarding where the various displaced shelters down in the area will end up?

stlokc
04-09-2009, 08:21 AM
Betts-You make some excellent points. First of all, I agree that 2 and 3 story "row houses" make excellent development and neighborhoods of that type are among my favorites in the cities you mentioned. And I applaud you for living downtown. I used the "8-10 story" example of Midtown not to make a point about height, which is not necessarily that important to me, but to instead make my larger point, which is, that if the city wants a vibrant urban core it would be better, generally, to have more people in a smaller neighborhood than the same number of people spread out over a couple of square miles. If we were Boston or New York, with hundreds of thousands of people in the inner core, there would be room for every type of development. Let me also say that the conceptual drawings for the C2S area are infinitely better than anything that is there now, and if it gets built exactly as planned, the city will be far better off than it is currently. But we're only going to have one chance in the next 50 years to do this and I want to make sure we do it right. As for varying heights along the park, I would love to see some 3-story buildings, some 5-story buildings, some 10-story buildings. I hope that OKC can draw enough people downtown to make all of that a possibility, along with a vibrant Midtown that supports more retailers and maybe a couple of high-rise towers here and there. A tall order, to be sure. No pun intended.

hoya
04-09-2009, 08:43 AM
If I had my wish, the C2S park would be bigger than we currently have planned and would stretch all the way from the Myriad Gardens to the river. The development along the edge of the park would be Central Park West-ish. In fact, I'd like developments along the edge to meet a certain minimum height requirement.

However, I don't know if that's planning too big. I don't know if we've got the population to fill in a development of that kind, and I wouldn't want to have an incredibly nice park sitting there with vacant lots all around.

CuatrodeMayo
04-09-2009, 12:18 PM
One other thing: Metro is really on to something with his proposal that the park act as a "bridge" over the boulevard and the highway. If you have ever been to downtown St. Louis, you know that the arch grounds is isolated from the CBD by a depressed interstate highway. It is the subject of much local discussion, because although there are bridges, the park is effectively cut off from the hotels and offices downtown. City leaders here are proposing a very expensive "lid" be put over the highway to draw together the park and the CBD. OKC has the opportunity to develop its park asthetically correct from the beginning. Just some food for thought.

I think this idea would be better if it went over I-40, rather than the boulevard.

Off-topic, I know, but I'll be spending a day or so seeing the sights of St. Louis. Any must-do's? Also, can you recommend a good hotel? You can PM me.

jbrown84
04-09-2009, 03:00 PM
Cuatro de Mayo-Your pithy "Lower Bricktown-ish" description hits the nail on the head, as far as I am concerned, and crystallizes something that has worried me about C2S ever since it was proposed. By clearing such a huge swath of land, is the city setting itself up for quasi-urban, 2-3 story development spread out over hundreds and hundreds of acres? How long will it take OKC to absorb all this new "urban" development?

Exactly why I think the park should be much bigger.

jbrown84
04-09-2009, 03:08 PM
I think this idea would be better if it went over I-40, rather than the boulevard.

Off-topic, I know, but I'll be spending a day or so seeing the sights of St. Louis. Any must-do's? Also, can you recommend a good hotel? You can PM me.

Stay away from the Hyatt Regency.

BDP
04-09-2009, 03:34 PM
do we have to have only 8 to 10 story towers to have a true urban neighborhood?

Very good point. It should also be noted that 8 to 10, or even 30 story buildings don't always equate to an urban neighborhood, in terms of lifestyle. Wilshire Blvd. in LA comes to mind. There is a lot of it, notably the strip of luxury condo high rises west of Beverly Hills, that is filled with high rises, yet there really isn't much urban life on the ground. Contrast that with the Westwood area that is north of Wilshire. It has a much more urban feel, despite the fact that its housing mix is mostly low rise apartments.

I think that in any district that wants to market to residents interested in urban living, it is essential to somehow create a dense mix of services in a pedestrian environment that is central to whatever housing mix the district ends up with. That's really the only way to truly get urban living. They need to especially make sure that none of it is used for large surface parking lots. I also think that any kind of usable public transportation, like a street car with fixed routes that create commerce corridors, helps to mitigate any density lost by putting in lower rise housing, as it increases the reach of any businesses operating within the area.

stlokc
04-09-2009, 04:12 PM
Cuatro-
I'll be happy to recommend some fun ways to spend a day in St. Louis. Having never PMed, can you give me a crash course and then we can take this off this thread? Also, are you coming here for a particular purpose that would neceesitate you staying in one particular part of town over another?