Okay, we've talked about the reality of it before and some mentioned to get vocal, we NEED TO DO IT NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE, if it's not already.

Oklahoma City parking trust policy threatens hall’s location
Published: February 3, 2009
http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/538763/lead620/

Ample vacant space is the norm at the city’s Santa Fe Parking Garage. Photo by Steve Lackmeyer, the oklahoman

When city fathers were dreaming up plans for a new downtown, the International Photography Hall of Fame was a big part of their vision. They hired internationally renowned architect I.M. Pei in the 1960s to draw up plans that included a Tivoli Gardens-style park — what we now know as the Myriad Gardens.

And a look back at those old plans shows the International Photography Hall of Fame in the heart of it all.

Plans change, of course, and while the organization did eventually make Oklahoma City its home in 1983, that home ended up being in the Omniplex (now known as Science Museum Oklahoma).

The organization has spent the past two years trying to find a new home downtown — and was very interested in ground floor retail space at the Santa Fe Parking Garage.

At first glance, the arrangement sounded promising. The International Photography Hall of Fame had the money for renovations, but was in need of space that would either be free or very, very cheap.

The Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority (COTPA), meanwhile, had space that had gone empty for a number of years.

A deal between the two could have brought some life to one of downtown’s darkest retail corridors and added another attraction to draw visitors to the heart of the city. And yet no deal could be struck. Now the Photography Hall of Fame tentatively has decided to relocate near the Gateway Arch in St. Louis.

The folks at COTPA refused to budge from their policy of asking a minimum of $5 per square foot for this space, even though the garage’s ground floor hasn’t exceeded 50 percent occupancy in at least a quarter century. Spokesman Michael Scroggins defended the policy Monday, saying it was intended to stay consistent with COTPA’s requirements to not offer free parking spaces and thus not jeopardize agreements with bond holders.

The retail space, however, is not subject to any requirements with bond holders. If it were, I’d wonder how happy they would be with COTPA’s success rate at leasing. COTPA is a trust working on behalf of City Hall. Mayor Mick Cornett’s office confirmed that he was apprised of the talks, but he backed COTPA’s stance based on its belief the space was set to be leased fully.

Scroggins said Monday that "interest is high” in the space, thanks to the opening two years ago of the neighboring Skirvin Hilton Hotel. But occupancy at the moment is going down, not up, with the pending departure of two of the retail plaza’s three tenants.

COTPA, like all city trusts, was formed to serve the city’s interests. Whether they do so in this matter will be judged by others — but now that the failed deal is public, it will be interesting to hear what that judgment might be.

Contact Mayor Cornett at:

mayor@okc.gov

200 N Walker, 3rd Floor
Oklahoma City, OK 73102
phone 405-297-2424
fax 405-297-3759

COTPA
Gary Scroggins
Sante Fe Parking Garage Office:
Santa Fe, Broadway/Kerr Phone 405-297-2540
Main Office Phone 405-297-2543

The article sounds as if the move to St. Louis is already a done deal.

It's tentative, but not irreversable from the board members I've interviewed. They wouldn't be able to move for another 18 months.

From OKC.gov (emphasis is mine): COTPA, a public trust administered by the City of Oklahoma City, is responsible for providing downtown parking alternatives and safe, efficient and convenient public transportation to the citizens of the greater Oklahoma City metropolitan area. COTPA public board meetings are 9 a.m the first Friday of each month in the Council Chamber.

That's this Friday, February 6th, 9:00 a.m.

At the last meeting (special meeting 1/23/2009 - http://www.okc.gov/transit/transit_library/cotpa/agenda.pdf) an agenda item was to approve a lease for a gift shop in the Santa Fe Parking Garage. Anybody know anything about that?

How many square feet do they need? and how much square feet does the SF garage have that is vacant?

It says 50 percent vacancy, but how many square feet is that?

I don't have the figures on me at the moment, but what they need is far less than the empty vacant space available at Santa Fe.

Not to hijack the thread, but why is it so difficult to find the names of people who serve on boards, trusts, authorities, committees, etc.? You'd think that their names and contact information would be right at the top. I expected greater transparency.

There was also talk about dividing up the exhibit space from the storage space so that they might be able to find a site with more visibility downtown.

Something should definitely be done to stop this move and keep this here. A move closer to the Arts District or BT would help this HOF tremendously.

Five dollars a square foot is pretty cheap. If they want free rent, it would appear that a philanthropist will need to step up to cover the cost.

I would think this would be a better fit somewhere in the Arts District.

Wait.

You mean, Oklahoma City has always been home of the International Photography Hall of Fame and Museum????

Wow! Great job of promoting this well-known tourist attraction, Oklahoma City.

First of all, I never even knew this area existed. I knew there was an area holding up the parking garage, but I never knew there was retail in it. Secondly, the Skirvin has been open for almost two years and they claim "interest is high?" If the occupancy is below 50%, COPTA needs to suck it up, rent it out for a lower rate, take the loss and get some more interest with an anchor for more tenants. Finally, we cannot afford to lose something like the IP HOF. Like Sweetnsour said, there was not promotion of this so no one else knew about it. If it was at least as well known as the soon to be opened Banjo Museum, then there would be a lot more interest.

How many square feet do they need? and how much square feet does the SF garage have that is vacant?

It says 50 percent vacancy, but how many square feet is that?

Very good question. Also, who or what is currently occupying that space?

If it was at least as well known as the soon to be opened Banjo Museum, then there would be a lot more interest.

Is this the same Banjo Museum that was in Guthrie?

Not to hijack the thread, but why is it so difficult to find the names of people who serve on boards, trusts, authorities, committees, etc.? You'd think that their names and contact information would be right at the top. I expected greater transparency.

Probably the best way is to look at the agendas for each individual group. Go to okc.gov, then click on "meetings." From there you can choose among many, and they usually have the most recent or current agenda in PDF. Then, you open the agenda, and the names are usually on the cover or on the index. Lots of keystrokes, but this method works for me.

Is this the same Banjo Museum that was in Guthrie?

The same one. Here is an older thread on it detailing what will happen:

http://www.okctalk.com/bricktown-wired/11926-american-banjo-museum-moving-bricktown.html

Sweet! Thanks! I hadn't been there in several years, so I was wondering how they were doing. They have some very cool instruments in their collection.

$5 per square foot? Keep in mind that is $5 per sq foot per year. That isn't very expensive and a move to St Louis would cost about 5 years worth of rent - at least. What is the real story because I am not buying the move to St Louis angle. As other said - what is the point of having an Arts district if we don't put art related attractions in it. A parking garage is no place for an attraction with the words 'International' and 'Fame' in the name.

Who cares? Have any of you honestly been there? Is it a tourist draw at all?

I went there a long time ago before I appreciated photography.
http://traveler1.shutterfly.com/blackandwhitegallery

I agree that the IPHOF could do more to promote themselves. I also completely agree that the bottom of a parking garage isnt suitable for something like this. I suppose if this is the only option then it will have to do, but it wouldnt take much to find a new location. I mean, just imagine what a 3 day MAPS for Arts could do. I know that wont happen and it may sound silly but we have to try to cultivate the "creative class" type city that people always bring up.

One step forward, two steps back. Sometime I wonder about our city. This is a great attraction and it's been here for many years. I knew Joe Ownbey who was the Executive Director at one time. It used to be located at the Omniplex.

This is strange. I would have to agree that a parking garage seems like a lousy space for such a place, but that's not relevant to the discussion. The most relevant discussion is how lame COTPA is. What a friggin' joke. Believe it or not, this city does a pretty good job supporting its arts community. This move to STL seems like an attempt to grab attention. Still, if OKC wants to retain cultural assets, it has to work hard to keep them. STL probably put together a decent package and space to make this happen.

STL probably put together a decent package and space to make this happen.

I did a quick google search and didn't find one link that mentioned the IPHOF and St Louis other than this OKCTALK discussion. If they are going to St Louis no one in St Louis knows it.

I think the St Louis threat is a ruse and I don't particularly like it. If the IPHOF is looking for free or reduced exhibit space then just come out and say so, but stop with the threats. If they make a public appeal in good faith and get turned down then they can make relocation plans.

The IPHOF board voted to prepare to move to St. Louis at their board meeting on Sunday. The space is being provided to them for free, but it won't be available for another 18 months and it's not as big a space as they need or what they have now. Thus, there are board members who feel like this deal could be reversed. But they're basically in need of free or virtually free space where they would pay utilities, operating costs and build-out. The garage retail space was attractive because it had the right floor to ceiling heights, was in a spot that might draw more pedestrian traffic and would be downtown near Bricktown. It's also space that has gone empty for more than 20 years.
The hitch - it needed to be free, and COTPA signaled (in the perception of those observing) it would rather see it remain empty for another 20 years than to go below $5 a square foot.

It's just like the Bricktown property owners. They'd rather sit on it than get rent that's lower than their unreasonable expectations.

SHAME on Mayor Cornett for sitting quietly while a potentially major attraction leaves for another city because a CITY AGENCY can't donate a space that's sat empty for years.

This is the INTERNATIONAL Photography HALL OF FAME.

We shouldn't be looking at this as "extortion", we should be looking at this as an incentive package. This is NOTHING compared to what we have done for Dell, The Thunder, MG, etc.

STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID

Not to mention the $19 million or whatever we handed out to BASS PRO................We can't scrap together or incentivize a measely few thousand bucks to save the International Photography Hall of Fame and Museum from leaving OKC and possibly providing Downtown OKC another attraction that is MUCH NEEDED in the ARTS DISTRICT or downtown period?

Contact Mayor Cornett at:

mayor@okc.gov

200 N Walker, 3rd Floor
Oklahoma City, OK 73102
phone 405-297-2424
fax 405-297-3759

COTPA
Gary Scroggins
Sante Fe Parking Garage Office:
Santa Fe, Broadway/Kerr Phone 405-297-2540
Main Office Phone 405-297-2543

These numbers are not correct for Scroggins, but I just emailed Cornett.

It's funny how in so many political discussions on these boards, people cry out all the time for "self-reliance, self-reliance, self-reliance." Yet, when it comes to this project, it's all about "city, save them."

What is the IPHOF doing to SAVE itself?

As someone who has a "second career" in photography and the arts, I rarely see any word or hear anything about the IPHOF in the media.

A few questions:

What are they doing to promote themselves and attract more tourists?
What are they doing to raise funds for their organization to keep operating?
What are they doing to find grant and arts support from local, regional and national foundations and funding sources to bring in exhibitions the public wishes to see?

It seems to me before everyone starts pointing fingers at City Hall they need to ask themselves what, exactly, the IPHOF is doing to make things work for themselves. I mean, it appears (and I have little inside information on the matter), that they're just looking for a gov't handout without doing any additional work to make things happen.

If it were not for Carolyn Hill and the $40 million she was able to secure in PRIVATE (read: non-government) support, we wouldn't have a beautiful, new downtown museum of art.

Look at the National Cowboy Hall, the OKC Art Museum, and even the Science Museum of Oklahoma. Look at IAO, Untitled and CityArts. They are all active in attracting tourism and providing self-support and funding for their programs through active funding programs.

Seems these groups have managed to find a way to succeed where the IPHOF has not. Frankly, as a photographer, I've been to several of their exhibits, and haven't found anything that critically exciting nor historically important. I also find it interesting that they don't reach out much to the local photography community as a BASE of support.

I believe before they start screaming about "we're going to move," they need to clean their own house first.

Heck if the "International Gymnastics Hall of Fame" can find a base of support in downtown OKC (at least I think it's still down in the conncourse), then surely the IPHOF can do something to for themselves.

Don't mean to sound like a Donald Downer, but it's just a contrary opinion here. I'd love to see them stay, but don't see that much of a loss if they do go, especially if they are not active in making things happen for themselves.

so who are the good ole boys on the board of COPTA? Dont' leave them out of the loop.

I think the St Louis threat is a ruse and I don't particularly like it. If the IPHOF is looking for free or reduced exhibit space then just come out and say so, but stop with the threats. If they make a public appeal in good faith and get turned down then they can make relocation plans.

It's not a ruse. They have tried to find coporate help, but aren't having any luck. A big part of the problem is that they haven't had a director since around last April so there's no one to write proposals for the grant money that IS available, much less to do any fund raising. We all know that Oklahoma can support a venue of this type. It's just a matter of bringing it to the attention of the right people.

I assume there is something wrong (or incomplete) with that $5 per square foot figure. Never in my life could I possibly imagine Downtown space renting for $5 per square foot per year. That is waaaaay cheap. I mean, comparably-sized indistrial space rents for this amount. On the other hand, $5/SF per month is way expensive. Perhaps it's so cheap because they know it needs a boatload of renovations.

Still, I would hate to lose this asset. I agree that it should be in the Arts District. Perhaps with a first class space they can attract more attention and bigger crowds.

It seems to me before everyone starts pointing fingers at City Hall they need to ask themselves what, exactly, the IPHOF is doing to make things work for themselves. I mean, it appears (and I have little inside information on the matter), that they're just looking for a gov't handout without doing any additional work to make things happen.

If it were not for Carolyn Hill and the $40 million she was able to secure in PRIVATE (read: non-government) support, we wouldn't have a beautiful, new downtown museum of art.

I can understand your argument. The OKCMOA was actually dropped from the list of potential MAPS projects because the organization was disorganized with poor leadership (this was pre-Carolyn Hill).

But we're not talking millions in investment here. We're talking about a few thousand dollars that's pretty much chump change for COTPA. And the IPHOF is planning to move to another city. Maybe they haven't maximized their fundraising and PR potential, but is that a good reason to just let them go? I don't think so.

Well said jbrown, my thoughts exactly. Just because they aren't maximizing their potential, isn't a scapegoat or excuse for the city to let them leave. I thought we were trying to retain and attract talent, not keep sending it out. If we can give crappy Bass Pro (in the heart of downtown for crying out loud), why can't we give IPHOF $10,000 in free rent if that's what it takes to save them. Downtown needs all the attractions it can get, and it would be better exposure for IPHOF, a win-win. Mick and Meg will be getting an email from me soon on this.

The IPHOF board voted to prepare to move to St. Louis at their board meeting on Sunday.

I stand corrected. So how much money are we talking here in annual rent? How much space do they need to rent?

Tell me why OKC deserves this more that St. Louis? St. Louis has proved itself over the years to be a tourist attraction...OKC has not...so can ya really blame them? I mean I'd say the same thing about Detroit, or Los Angeles or New York...who in their right mind wants to visit any of them?

Huh??

Maybe because the IPHOF has been here for decades...

Huh??

Maybe because the IPHOF has been here for decades...


I think it's been here for around 25 years.

I don't normally park in garages downtown, so I'm speaking from ignorance. But I can't imagine wanting to visit IPHOF in a garage. I would think it should have a better presense than that. I know we have some impressive photographers on here, it seems it would be a natural for you to get involved with this and lend your enthusiasm. I'm with the rest who say that since we want to encourage the arts in our city, why just let them leave.

COTPA has retail spaces at the plaza/street level below the Santa Fe parking garage (and other garages) open to Liberty Tower and The Skirvin. I think that is the space they are talking about, not being inside the garage. There is quite a bit of retail space at street level under garages in downtown and in most cases you might not know the garage is above without looking up.

I haven't heard anything about this in St. Louis. But I also don't ever remember hearing much about it in OKC either, to be fair.

If it makes OKC feel any better, St. Louis just lost the Bowling Hall of Fame to some other city. I think these minor organizations probably move around on the basis of who sits on their national boards and what kind of "deals" they can get.

I drove by this area (Santa Fe Parking Garage) last night and I can understand why no one really knew about it and I don't think it would be a great place for something like the IPHOF. You would have to park either in BT or on the street in front of Main or Broadway and walk to the blighted area that is the retail space. I was suprised to see that there were a couple of small businesses there like a nail salon and a small office if I remember correctly. If this were to work, COPTA would have to give up this are for a very small amount and someone (COPTA, IPHOF, etc) would have to do a great job of marketing because it is on, but off the path, if you know what I mean.

You would have to park either in BT or on the street in front of Main or Broadway and walk to the blighted area that is the retail space.

:omg::fighting2

It's under a PARKING GARAGE! And it's not a blighted area. It's next door to Chase Tower and the Skirvin.

No it's not the most ideal location for IPHOF, but it will work for the time being until they can raise some cash for a better space.

I'll have to join JBrown in his amusement at calling an area surrounded by the Skirvin, Chase Tower, Devon Energy and Bricktown "blighted."
The space isn't pretty right now, for sure, but blighted? Um, no. But I'd be glad to provide you with a tour of a blighted area of town on the condition you provide the Hummer, police escort and weapons.
;)

:omg::fighting2

It's under a PARKING GARAGE! And it's not a blighted area. It's next door to Chase Tower and the Skirvin.

No it's not the most ideal location for IPHOF, but it will work for the time being until they can raise some cash for a better space.

I meant the actual retail space that is blighted, not the entire area. I actually said:

You would have to park either in BT or on the street in front of Main or Broadway and walk to the blighted area that is the retail space.

I wish that COPTA would do a little updating of that area to keep up with the times, then maybe they could as $5 a sq ft and get it. Sorry for the confusion.

What about the FNC building? Surley they have some low cost space available. OKC might need to look at this as a loss leader situation. Give them some free/cheap space and hope that it spurs surrounding development.

There was a very serious effort over a year ago initiated by some former PHOF board members who were working with an architect to find a location downtown for the PHOF. The COTPA space between the Skirvin and Chase building was a prime candidate. The City and/or COTPA was not open to much of a discussion about locating the PHOF in the space, saying that they had other tenants ready to move in. I was astounded at the poor response and lack of interest on COTPA's part in bringing this potentially important tourist attraction to downtown and locating it in this underutilized, rundown retail strip.

The tenants that typically rent those store fronts don't last over a few months at best and certainly don't contribute much to the area. Plus, the maintenance of the property is horrible. COTPA is virtually a slum-lord when it comes to the way they manage the storefront spaces in their parking garages. Obviously, the PHOF has its own problems, but this was an opportunity for making a major improvment to a pretty ratty looking high visibility storefront strip that was lost probably because of unresponsiveness on the part of COTPA.

I think the window has closed on that opportunity and that the proposed move out of Oklahoma will take place unless a major effort is launched by The City. Too bad for OKC and the PHOF.

Michael Smith

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

I'd say the same thing about Detroit, or Los Angeles or New York...who in their right mind wants to visit any of them?

Say what? Clearly you haven't visited New York, which happens to be America's biggest tourism destination, and for good reason. Dumb statement.

Tell me why OKC deserves this more that St. Louis? St. Louis has proved itself over the years to be a tourist attraction...OKC has not...so can ya really blame them? I mean I'd say the same thing about Detroit, or Los Angeles or New York...who in their right mind wants to visit any of them?

Curt, OKC is trying to prove itself as a tourist destination. Look, we have to start somewhere. And the starting point is always at the bottom. People need to stop pigeon-holing Oklahoma City JUST BECAUSE it has yet to be a full blown tourist destination like St. Louis.

This is why Oklahoma City struggles the way it does to move forward. The negative nellies just don't know when to start getting behind OKC and help it move forward. The attitude of some in OKC are just pitiful. No damn civic pride whatsoever.

Here's a key question: is the standard used by COTPA for maintenance, upkeep and leasing of the Santa Fe plaza retail space the same standard city leaders would like to see for Bricktown and the rest of downtown? Is there any obligation to be a role model with this space?

when I saw the first post on this, my first thought was "Aim, fire, shoot self in foot". . . looks like we did.

T his is why Oklahoma City struggles the way it does to move forward. The negative nellies just don't know when to start getting behind OKC and help it move forward.


I agree. We often don't appreciate what is right in front of us.

Here's a key question: is the standard used by COTPA for maintenance, upkeep and leasing of the Santa Fe plaza retail space the same standard city leaders would like to see for Bricktown and the rest of downtown? Is there any obligation to be a role model with this space?

Sure. Just like the Chamber has an obligation to be a role model for urban, pedestrian-friendly development. OOPS!

Curt, OKC is trying to prove itself as a tourist destination. Look, we have to start somewhere. And the starting point is always at the bottom. People need to stop pigeon-holing Oklahoma City JUST BECAUSE it has yet to be a full blown tourist destination like St. Louis.

This is why Oklahoma City struggles the way it does to move forward. The negative nellies just don't know when to start getting behind OKC and help it move forward. The attitude of some in OKC are just pitiful. No damn civic pride whatsoever.

Don't mind Curt he lives in Detroit.

What other entities such as this, receive free rent from OKC? As myself and others have mentioned, 5 dollars per square foot is very cheap for retail space. How much rent do they pay at the Kirkpatrick Center? That would seem to be a good location considering that it's in the Adventure District with the other Halls of Fame...

How many other "Photography Hall of Fame"s are there? How does this one measure in prominence to others?

How many other "Photography Hall of Fame"s are there?

None. That's why this attraction has tremendous potential to be an INTERNATIONAL destination if done right and in a more visible location. We need to work to keep them here. If the cheap rent has to come with a requirement that they have a change in leadership or something of that sort, then so be it.

On IPHF's twitter page they wrote "is formally announcing its intent to move to Saint Louis, MO" Too bad.

Bummer. I always thought the parking lot on Main in between Walker and Hudson across from the art museum on Patience Latting Circle would be a good place for a new IPHF.

They probably had their mind made up a long time ago to move and just let it draw out to make it seem as if there was a chance. Eh, for the city as a whole - they probably weren't noticed before and won't notice the loss after.