Anyone else find it odd that Will Rogers is asking less than Tulsa, Lawton and other smaller airports?



Air projects could take off sooner with stimulus plan
Oklahoman
BY JENNIFER PALMER
Published: January 22, 2009

Airport projects waiting in the wings could be completed sooner with an injection of federal funding from a massive economic stimulus package.

If the package is approved, the state could receive $30 million to $40 million in federal funds for Oklahoma’s airports — well above the $9 million to $12 million it receives during a typical fiscal year. The additional money would jump-start construction projects, creating jobs, said Vic Bird, director of the Oklahoma Aeronautics Commission.

Aid program rare
"Something of this magnitude doesn’t come around very often, so we really need to take advantage of it while we can,” Bird said. "We certainly don’t want to leave any money on the table.”

The Federal Aviation Administration last month asked aviation officials to submit project proposals. Oklahoma’s three commercial airports — Will Rogers World Airport, Tulsa International Airport and Lawton-Fort Sill Regional Airport — sent in lists of eligible projects, as did the Aeronautics Commission on behalf of many of the state’s airports.

Who is eligible?
To be eligible for the funds, the projects’ design and bid phases have to be completed by mid-April.

In Tulsa, the additional federal money would allow the airport to expedite updating the surface road and signs at the airport’s entry — something officials may not have spent money on this year.

"We’re being very cautious with any projects because of the reduced number of travelers,” said Alexis Higgins, an airport spokeswoman.

Runways targeted
Many projects submitted to the FAA are for runway and taxiway pavement — projects that are considered a priority for the FAA and would compete favorably for federal dollars, Bird said.
Lawton-Fort Sill Regional Airport repaved all but 2,400 feet of runway in 2001, and is asking for $5 million in federal dollars to finish the project.

Without the stimulus package, the airport would have to roll over money from several years to pay for it.

"We just don’t generate that kind of money,” said Barbara McNally, the airport’s manager. "Pavement projects are so expensive.”


Airport projects eligible for federal stimulus funds
The following airports have requested these funds from the federal government but also may receive money from the city or state.
→Will Rogers World Airport…$3.5 million

→Tulsa International Airport…$4 million

→Lawton-Fort Sill Regional Airport…$5 million

→Wiley Post Airport in Oklahoma City…$8 million

→Altus — Quartz Mountain…$440,500

→Alva…$5.6 million

→Bartlesville…$3.6 million

→Durant — Eaker Field…$5.7 million

→South Grand Lake (in Ketchum)…$1.7 million

→Muskogee — Davis Field…$4.5 million

→Okemah…$5 million

→Okmulgee…$4.5 million

→Ponca City…$4.7 million

→Shawnee…$3.5 million

→Stillwater…$5.6 million

→Tulsa’s Jones Riverside…$1.7 million

→Yukon’s Clarence Page…$1.3 million

Sources: The Oklahoma Aeronautics Commission, Will Rogers World Airport, Tulsa International Airport

and Lawton-Fort Sill Regional Airport.

$4 million is pretty much change when talking about airport buildings in major cities. Now for those small-town airports that is a different story. I know for that Ponca City is trying to build a new terminal building (It has been a re-occuring project at OSU's School of Architecture for many years now).

There is only so much the funds can be used for, and I'm sure there is a pretty tight time line on when the funds have to be spent. OKC really doesn't have anything major that needs redoing right now. The only thing that may jump out would be a nice air cargo building to allow for the east wing expansion - moving the existing structure away.

Does anyone know if they they already have a good chunk set aside for the new terminal and thats why they didn't ask for much?

There is only so much the funds can be used for, and I'm sure there is a pretty tight time line on when the funds have to be spent. OKC really doesn't have anything major that needs redoing right now. The only thing that may jump out would be a nice air cargo building to allow for the east wing expansion - moving the existing structure away.

That's what I'm saying. The east wing is pretty much ready to go if they wanted, the plans are in place, etc. Why couldn't they submit a request for funding for that, even though I believe the city already had the money set aside. Why not use the fed money and then divert the city money to another much needed project?

OKC will not be getting this money.

Checkout the link:
WHITE MALES NEED NOT APPLY...
Obama's economic adviser Robert Reich testified this month that the Obama stimulus package should be kept out of the hands of white male construction workers.

Gateway Pundit: Obama Stimulus Plan: White Males Need Not Apply (Video) (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/obama-stimulus-plan-white-males-need.html)

If you don't believe the video check out this:
Robert Reich's Blog: The Stimulus: How to Create Jobs Without Them All Going to Skilled Professionals and White Male Construction Workers (http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/01/stimulus-how-to-create-jobs-without.html)

OMG! come on! support this president and get on!!!!!!!!!!!!Give this guy a chance he cant do any worse than Bush!!!!!!
That's for damn sure!

Anyone know more about what specific projects Will Rogers is requesting the money for? Jen at the Airport, can you comment?

OMG! come on! support this president and get on!!!!!!!!!!!!Give this guy a chance he cant do any worse than Bush!!!!!!
That's for damn sure!

Did you watch the video? I am a white male. Why should I support that policy? Why would you support it?

Did you watch the video? I am a white male. Why should I support that policy? Why would you support it?

Complain all you want if it actually gets signed. People in congress say stupid things all the time. Most absurd things like this don't even see the light of day.

LOL We're gonna have to tie a dogchain to Kerry here pretty soon. It's spreading to other threads! :bright_id

This is a thread about the infrastructure stimulus and the economic adviser to President Obama says the federal government should make every attempt to ensure that the money doesn't end up in the hands of white men. How am I out of line?

Are you guys so blind that you can't see how wrong this is? Why do these kinds of policies not bother you in the least?

Kerry,

I'm sick of your provocative, inflammatory, and misleading posts. We get that you hate Obama. Just say it. You hate him. You hate him because he's a D and you're an R and you, like your patron saint Limbaugh, want him to fail and want other people to hate and resent him to the same degree you do. It ain't gonna happen. He has an 80 percent approval rating right now and most of the American people, including the candidate you supported in the election, are willing to give him a chance.

I couldn't care less what Robert Reich said. He is not setting Obama's economic policy, he's not in the cabinet, and he will not be setting the terms of the stimulus.

You obviously failed to watch the local news this evening in which the ODOT spokesperson said the amount of stimulus money coming to Oklahoma for highway and bridge construction will put 16,000 people to work, NOW.

Now, your moronic post has earned a simple question: Will Obama's team be doing the hiring for this construction? No. The money is going to the state and the state will do the hiring and outsourcing. There are a number of private firms that will directly benefit.

How about you and your mama Mary Fallin shut up on your anti-Obama crusade long enough for our state to get its share of the highway money. Unless you'd rather that go somewhere else? How is that constructive? Do you want our city to be excluded? WTF?

I mean really, get over it. Even your losing candidate is on board right now.

Quit lying to people so you can get attention here. It's old.

Kerry. Here's a hint: We know how much you hate and despise Obama. You do not have to talk about it in every single post. Give it a rest. You are starting to look like a child and nobody is taking anything you say seriously.

So contractors will be encouraged to hire unskilled minority workers to build our infrastructure instead of hiring the people who actually know how to do it?

S/G: Way out of line. If Kerry wants to make it an anti-Obama issue, then whatever. Regardless of the Obama connection or lack thereof, Reich statement was ignorant and borderline racist.

I agree the Reich statement was stupid, but it's also irrelevant. Reich has nothing to do with the hiring for the stimulus package. ODOT is doing the contracting, and they're not hiring dolts. There is so much work coming in the pipeline that every highway consulting firm in the state is going to be doing overtime work.

Reich is not in the cabinet. He is not setting the terms for the stimulus. Oklahoma's leaders are. Why make a mountain out of a mole hill.

So contractors will be encouraged to hire unskilled minority workers to build our infrastructure instead of hiring the people who actually know how to do it?

How in the heck are you tying the work availability to how the contractors decide to handle their staffing??? Either they'll build it right or the state or local government better not sign off/pay for the work. If they do, well, that won't be much change from how it is now, is it? And again like soonerguru said, the projects are not federal projects! They are local and state projects and they are only deciding what projects to fund at the fed level! The locals spend and manage the funds.

Umm, just curious as to if you own a car and if so, have you traveled any of the road repair/refurbish projects around here lately??? Go drive out near i-40 and meridian and tell me that it get's worse than that! Or drive southbound on i-44 under i-40 and try to see where the lanes are! You actually think they are staffing skilled workers now??? Or care about quality for that matter

Soonerguru - obviously you didn't watch the video. Charles Rangel, Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, wants to write rules into the stimulus legislation that will "encourage" companies to hire minorities, women, and the unskilled. He also wants to make it impossible for the state to determine how and where the money will be spent. He wants federal formulas that determine where the money will go. In other words - if they have their way (and Charles Rangel does) then it doesn't matter what the ODOT spokesperson says. It won't be up to ODOT. And what are these 16,000 employees going to do next year when the stimulus money runs out? Will we have another stimulus?

BTW - don't count me a John McCain supporter and 'r' or 'd' has nothing to do with it. I have just about given up on the Republican party if they are going to be defined by the likes of John McCain and Colin Powell.

wants to write rules into the stimulus legislation that will "encourage" companies to hire minorities, women, and the unskilled.

Minorities and women have been at the root of most of legislation for both Dems and Repubs for a long time. You see that everywhere now. Even here locally.

I can tell you this: no one will put language in there to encourage hiring unskilled workers. If the contractors decide to hire unskilled workers (as some do now), then that is their gamble.

There are plenty of skilled minorities and women workers. And if all the contractors have to build their bids on this basis, then they have nothing to worry about because they are bidding on an even playing field with other contractors.

Alright well this thread is completely derailed now. Mods, can you please delete or move these posts that really are not on topic. For real people...we have a political forum. If you want to get into policy and politics and such too...post there. You do not have to derail every other thread with political crap. We need an ignore feature on this board so we can just block out all posts by certain people.

Now back on topic...as far as using funds for the east wing - I think there are certain restrictions on the federal level on how funds can be used at an airport. Typically they are going to be focused on runway/ramp improvements, tower improvements, etc. Passenger terminals are usually last unless it is for security equipment. Perhaps they could get funding to create an actual passenger pickup waiting area in the terminal. You know...so nice chairs and such by the escalators...instead of people walking around in circles or standing in one place for a long time.

A We need an ignore feature on this board so we can just block out all posts by certain people.

There is an ignore and it works well.

How in the heck are you tying the work availability to how the contractors decide to handle their staffing??? Either they'll build it right or the state or local government better not sign off/pay for the work. If they do, well, that won't be much change from how it is now, is it? And again like soonerguru said, the projects are not federal projects! They are local and state projects and they are only deciding what projects to fund at the fed level! The locals spend and manage the funds.

Umm, just curious as to if you own a car and if so, have you traveled any of the road repair/refurbish projects around here lately??? Go drive out near i-40 and meridian and tell me that it get's worse than that! Or drive southbound on i-44 under i-40 and try to see where the lanes are! You actually think they are staffing skilled workers now??? Or care about quality for that matter

Hey, Homeboy, you probably should watch the video before you go off on me. I was just repeating the summary of the discussion taking place on the video. And I don't really care for your tone, so why don't you find somebody else to pick a fight with. See?

There is an ignore and it works well.

:yourock:

Found it. :)

Hey, Homeboy, you probably should watch the video before you go off on me. I was just repeating the summary of the discussion taking place on the video. And I don't really care for your tone, so why don't you find somebody else to pick a fight with. See?

Hey Homeslice, I did watch the video and that's why I questioned you. You claimed that soonerguru was out of line and I simply pointed out the facts. If you dont want to answer the questions I presented to you, that is fine, move on to another thread. But do not accuse me of doing something I haven't done. Alrighty then?

Anyone else find the irony in an aviation thread being hijacked?

Anyone else find the irony in an aviation thread being hijacked?

lol (I know, not a laughing matter)

Hey Homeslice, I did watch the video and that's why I questioned you. You claimed that soonerguru was out of line and I simply pointed out the facts. If you dont want to answer the questions I presented to you, that is fine, move on to another thread. But do not accuse me of doing something I haven't done. Alrighty then?

You obviously lack reading (and apparently video watching) comprehension skills, but I will commend you for parroting my paragraph structure and condecending tone. Bravo.

I was pointing out to S/G the what was said by Reich was ignorant but I would not pin it on Obama like Kerry did.

You're acting like I made some sort of "statement" by my summary of the video. If you want to make me look like some kind of wuss for not answering your inane "questions" go right ahead. As a matter of fact:


How in the heck are you tying the work availability to how the contractors decide to handle their staffing???

Watch the video


And again like soonerguru said, the projects are not federal projects! They are local and state projects and they are only deciding what projects to fund at the fed level! The locals spend and manage the funds.

Watch the video


Umm, just curious as to if you own a car and if so, have you traveled any of the road repair/refurbish projects around here lately???

Yes.


You actually think they are staffing skilled workers now??? Or care about quality for that matter?

Yes.

So now that I have fulfilled all your dreams, I will no longer keep posting even further off-topic. Feel free to start your victory dance now or post a new thread...whatever floats your boat.

You obviously lack reading (and apparently video watching) comprehension skills, but I will commend you for parroting my paragraph structure and condecending tone. Bravo.

I was pointing out to S/G the what was said by Reich was ignorant but I would not pin it on Obama like Kerry did.

You're acting like I made some sort of "statement" by my summary of the video. If you want to make me look like some kind of wuss for not answering your inane "questions" go right ahead. As a matter of fact:

See below. You did make a statement and I have not called you any names or tried to make you look like anything. I just simply asked how you came to that conclusion (and asked if you noticed the existing poor work on the highways) and that is when you flamed back at me.


So contractors will be encouraged to hire unskilled minority workers to build our infrastructure instead of hiring the people who actually know how to do it?

You wrote the above statement. I asked how you drew that conclusion from the video.



Watch the video

Watch the video
I don't see/hear anything in that video that could have led to your conclusion on encouraging contractors to hire unskilled workers specifically.


Yes.

Yes.
Then I don't know what to tell you. Because I see people swerving around trying to find where the lanes are on both sections of that interstate that I mentioned. I have to watch it myself, because the work is very poor. I don't see how you think those projects are done correctly and by competent people. But, as always, you are entitled to your opinion.


So now that I have fulfilled all your dreams, I will no longer keep posting even further off-topic. Feel free to start your victory dance now or post a new thread...whatever floats your boat.

This is immature.

So contractors will be encouraged to hire unskilled minority workers to build our infrastructure instead of hiring the people who actually know how to do it?

S/G: Way out of line. If Kerry wants to make it an anti-Obama issue, then whatever. Regardless of the Obama connection or lack thereof, Reich statement was ignorant and borderline racist.

Does it actually say "unskilled" in the video? I couldn't watch the whole thing - it was like nails on a chalkboard. That guy is an idiot.

Yes he says unskilled. Here is the thing. They are going to write federal formulas into the legislation that specifies the areas the money can be spent. WRWA is not located in a poverty area so they won't get the money.

Alright. I am assuming they will "skill" these workers if it actually happens. I really doubt we'll even be seeing this happen.

Here is the blog entry: http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/01/stimulus-how-to-create-jobs-without.html (http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2009/01/stimulus-how-to-create-jobs-without.html)

Thursday, January 08, 2009

The Stimulus: How to Create Jobs Without Them All Going to Skilled Professionals and White Male Construction Workers

The stimulus plan will create jobs repairing and upgrading the nation's roads, bridges, ports, levees, water and sewage system, public-transit systems, electricity grid, and schools. And it will kick-start alternative, non-fossil based sources of energy (wind, solar, geothermal, and so on); new health-care information systems; and universal broadband Internet access.

It's a two-fer: lots of new jobs, and investments in the nation's future productivity.

But if there aren't enough skilled professionals to do the jobs involving new technologies, the stimulus will just increase the wages of the professionals who already have the right skills rather than generate many new jobs in these fields. And if construction jobs go mainly to white males who already dominate the construction trades, many people who need jobs the most -- women, minorities, and the poor and long-term unemployed -- will be shut out.

What to do? There's no easy solution to either dilemma. But there's no reason to think about "green jobs" as simply high-tech. Many low-income and low-skilled workers -- women as well as men -- could be put directly to work providing homes and businesses with more efficient and renewable heating, lighting, cooling, and refrigeration systems; installing solar panels and efficient photovoltaic systems; rehabilitating and renovating old properties, and improving recycling systems. "Green Jobs Corps" teams could be trained to evaluate and advise homeowners and businesses on these and other means of conserving energy.

People can be trained relatively quickly for these sorts of jobs, as well as many infrastructure j0bs generated by the stimulus -- installing new pipes for water and sewage systems, repairing and upgrading equipment, basic construction -- but contractors have to be nudged both to provide the training and to do the hiring.

I'd suggest that all contracts entered into with stimulus funds require contractors to provide at least 20 percent of jobs to the long-term unemployed and to people withincomes at or below 200 percent of the federal poverty level. And at least 2 percent of project funds should be allocated to such training. In addition, advantage should be taken of buildings trades apprenticeships -- wich must be fully available to women and minorities.


Here is part of what was said on the video:


REICH: …”I am concerned, as I’m sure many of you are, that these jobs not simply go to high-skilled people who are already professionals or to white male construction workers…I have nothing against white male construction workers, I’m just saying there are other people who have needs as well...Criteria can be set so that the money does go to others, the long term unemployed minorities, women, people who are not necessarily construction workers or high-skilled professionals.

(Damn - didn't think I'd need the asbestos underwear today!)

Wow, Reich's musings are so not a big deal. Apparently, trying to find meaningful work for the long-term unemployed and minorities is bad? Wow, some of you folks are harsh.

It also doesn't matter a rip what Reich said anyway, as he has nothing to do with it. And Rangel can say what he wants but there's going to be a lot of horsetrading going on and he's not going to get his way.

Thank you for posting the transcript Cautrode. I can see that the former labor secretary was simply thinking on his blog how to get some folks in the workforce that are struggling on the margins. Not a bad thing to think about, but it's not going to be the cornerstone of the stimulus.

I will say this: the Democratic Congress is very much at risk of screwing up this idea, big time. There's really no downside to infrastructure improvement, and if it lifts the economy and puts people to work, all the better. That said, some of what I'm seeing floated from the Congress doesn't put enough in infrastructure, IMO. Almost 40 percent goes to the middle class tax cut.

Question: will the middle class tax cut help the economy? I honestly don't know.

There is an ignore and it works well.

Where is it, because I can never find it.

It is an undeniable fact that there are still lots of bigots in our society who hate any sex, race, member of different socio economic groups, and even political party members that are different than themselves. This is exactly why specific language has to be used. The poster proves the point only too well that there are those who are more than willing to see the country suffer than to support someone they are biased against, like Obama. What a pathetic statement.

It is an undeniable fact that there are still lots of bigots in our society who hate any sex, race, member of different socio economic groups, and even political party members that are different than themselves. This is exactly why specific language has to be used. The poster proves the point only too well that there are those who are more than willing to see the country suffer than to support someone they are biased against, like Obama. What a pathetic statement.

A quote would be helpful in this case.

I agree Rover, Reich and his defenders are racist. Also, I didn't make the connection between Reich and Obama, CSPAN did. It says right next to his name "Obama Economic Advisor". Alas, there is so little infrastructure money in the legislation this whole debate is useless.

Anyone else find the irony in an aviation thread being hijacked?


That's funnier than he|| right there! LOLOLOLOL! :LolLolLol

Back on topic, the airports receive federal money in the form of AIP programs from the FAA (Aiport Improvement Program).

Generally the local airport kicks in 5% and the FAA matches it with 95%. Many of the airport projects never get funded because the local airports (municipalities) can't cover the 5% part.

The AIP FAA money is typically for the AOA (Airport Operations Area) meaning the airfield, tower, grounds and ramps. Typically security equipment and baggage handling equipment is not included (I could be wrong there tho)

I'm currently tracking the individual projects that comprise the totals on the original post, so if anyone has detailed information on them, I'd be more than happy to know more. My company specializes in Airfield Navigational Aids and Lighting.

Cheers!

I agree Rover, Reich and his defenders are racist. Also, I didn't make the connection between Reich and Obama, CSPAN did. It says right next to his name "Obama Economic Advisor". Alas, there is so little infrastructure money in the legislation this whole debate is useless.

Reich is the former Sec'y of Labor under Clinton. He "advised" on the campaign trail, but doesn't hold a cabinet position. By all means continue to blow this out of proportion. Personally, if I were governor, I would be happy to take the half billion in money for roads and bridges and STFU.

DaveSkater,

From the pilots I talk to during turns, they mostly complain about the lack of properly painted/maintained lines on the ramp, coming in off the taxiways as well as the serious neglect by the city to maintain the lines in the ramp area. I know when I was over at United, we had to re-paint part of the J-lines ourselves because the city would not follow through and the lines were so faded that sometimes we had to look closely. You may be interested to know that mentality carries over to the airport equipment as well--jet bridges, baggage conveyor (automation) equipment, etc. Some equipment in the bag room breaks down because they just simply dont maintain the parts when they're supposed to. I've sat there and watched equipment squeak and grind to a halt! You can report it to them and they don't care until it's broken. You would not believe how many times a day we have to reset circuit breakers in the jet bridges! They are not maintained well at all. If you've ever seen us start to move the things and then have to wait several minutes to get it up to the a/c, that is why. It sucks. Sure, it was all purchased from the cheapest bidder, but come on, would you let your engine run out of oil (and disregard the warning light) and replace the whole engine when it locks up? or just simply top it off and forgo the price of the engine for the low price of the oil.

You say your company specializes in lighting??? YES, That is a HUGE thing we NEED in OKC. The area lighting the city has for the ramp is pathetic! It needs to be the brighter white type and more of it (like other airports have). That general orange crap really strains the eyes when trying to service a/c in the dark at night. Not to mention that at least half of the bulbs are left burnt out at any given time. (it's kinda funny and unrelated, but for the longest time, there has been a light fixture (can) hanging by the flex conduit on the overhang up above gates 4 and 6...saving it for looks I guess)

We really need to address the remote pad space issue as well, because right now we just barely have what we need for normal ops and are not prepared to handle even a small amount of diversion traffic, not to mention space for de-icing. Most of us de-ice at the gate currently, which is fine if everything is perfectly on schedule and you have no other flts to work. And everyone knows that you're already in an irrops situation due to weather if you're de-icing.

Bottom line is a growing airport needs to grow not just in looks or in one area, but altogether. If these things I mention weren't needed, they wouldn't have been conceived/implemented elsewhere to begin with.

Just another perspective from inside the situation.


Also, there is another issue as it relates to the airport AOA. It is unrelated to this thread, so read if you want to:

This really isn't as much a money issue, but our ramp is uncontrolled. That is fine for less flt activity (like we used to have when things were mainline and less frequent), but we have some really close calls clearance-wise on a regular basis now. Not so much when we're moving a/c ourselves, but when pilots are given the okay to taxi as they please, they go around other active a/c in a dangerous way. One day a few months ago, I was pushing back a flt and an American Eagle pilot rounded the corner at the ramp entrance from taxiway Gulf and instead of following the taxiway and either waiting for us to complete pushback, or us stop and let him go by, he cuts across the remote pad and takes a shortcut to gate 4. As a precaution, when I see him darting across so far off the taxi line, I have to halt pushback until I know he is clear of the area. That is an unnessary delay. Obviously when aircraft are taxiing wildly and not along the set paths, this presents safety issues for everyone. Just FYI, I noticed that the a/c's left main gear was only a few feet from going off into the grass when he cut across. That's just unnecessary, you know?

Contributing to this are both the uncontrolled ramp and the poorly maintained markings. A controlled ramp would be safer, but even having the taxi lines and "off-limits" areas marked would alleviate most of the problem.

Sgray: My company has a maintenance contract with the City to maintain many of those lights, and usually install the ramp and t/w and r/w lights. However, we can't just go and do without authorization from the DOA. You might have some luck chatting with the guys in the maintenance department however, or the folks upstairs on the third floor. Wish I could be of more assistance.

DaveSkater,

Yup, we've been down that road. The third floor...nothing but agents out of the 'matrix' movie. The problem eminates from management and thats how maintenance is allowed to do what they do.

Believe me, I know it is not your company and that you are working within the constraints of the contract.

How can a thread like this get hijacked by the political hipshooters? I read in a couple of older threads that Kerry lives in Jacksonville, Florida. He always says "we" when talking about Oklahoma City. I just find something weird about that. A lot of good threads get hijacked by the same people. Maybe it's a coincidence they all seem to be very conservative angry people.

ANY stimulus money is welcome. Every brick laid is a dollar spent and somebody gets a paycheck.