View Full Version : Life coming to upper floors in Bricktown



jbrown84
01-15-2009, 12:50 PM
Above first floor, buildings in Bricktown remain vacant
BY STEVE LACKMEYER
Published: January 15, 2009

When Spaghetti Warehouse opened 20 years ago in Bricktown, it set forth a development trend that saw restaurants and shops open on the first-floor level of old warehouses while upstairs went vacant.

A wave of new development has longtime observers like Jim Cowan, director of the Bricktown Association, hoping those days may be over.

"It’s been a big problem; most of these buildings are vacant above the first floor,” Cowan said of the trend. "I think that’s the least desirable space in the way that Bricktown has been developed.”

Cowan suspects costs associated with renovating the upper floors of warehouses built prior to World War II and difficulties complying with modern codes are to blame. But he thinks the biggest source of hesitation for upstairs development — parking — may finally be fading.

"One of the slowest times for Bricktown parking is during the day,” Cowan said. "Many of the tenants of these upper floors are offices with daytime businesses.”

Chuck Ainsworth, a developer in Bricktown the past dozen years, is busy wrapping up renovation of the seven-story Candy Factory building, 1 E Sheridan. He points to the Spaghetti Warehouse as an unfortunate trend-setter when it kicked off the emergence of Bricktown as an entertainment district.

"I think they were inhibited from developing upper floors because they weren’t confident of their parking situation,” Ainsworth said.

Ainsworth thinks those woes have been answered with the addition of hundreds of parking spaces a block north along Main Street. Karchmer, who owns and operates the north lots, has deals pending or signed with Allen Contracting and a Tulsa architectural firm that is going to open offices in a recently renovated building along the 200 block of Main Street.

"If you have a building on the National Register of Historic Places, it significantly impacts the costs,” Ainsworth said. "You can also sell the tax credits — it’s tricky, but you can sell them.”

Such assistance, Ainsworth said, was critical in covering the expense of constructing a $450,000 elevator tower on the north side of the Candy Factory and spending $500,000 on new windows.

Karchmer is weighing all of the same considerations for 4 E Sheridan. He can provide parking in an adjoining lot for office tenants but is reluctant to pursue tax credits because of worries about bureaucratic delays and other restrictions.

"Steel costs are down,” Karchmer said. "I think we can get a better price right now than seven or eight months ago. But the con is there are not as many cats out there looking for space. To make it, you’ve got to see what kind of investment you’re looking at. If we can get a decent bid, we’ll probably do it with or without a tenant. I think we can get the tenants with what will be the slickest space in Bricktown.”

Upper floors get attention
Jim Cowan, director of the Bricktown Association, is looking forward to more upstairs windows lighting up in the district’s old warehouses. Wednesday the Bricktown Urban Design Committee reviewed plans for four projects that involve improvements to long-vacant upper floors:

• Interior demolition is under way in the upper floors at 2 E California and 12 E California as the owners, oilmen John Shelton and Charles Harding, prepare to convert the empty space into offices overlooking the Bricktown Canal.

• Veteran Bricktown developer Don Karchmer is weighing cost estimates for a four-story addition at 4 E Sheridan that would allow for addition of stairways and construction of offices in the top three floors. The building’s only current occupant is the Melting Pot located on the first floor.

• Allen Contracting is looking at renovating both floors of a long-vacant warehouse at 129 E Main and adding a third story. Company owner Jeff Allen said he plans to move his offices into the property, which first caught his attention while his company was refurbishing the adjoining Walnut Avenue Bridge.

• The white and yellow facade at 27 E Sheridan will be repainted red as a new restaurant, Brix, prepares to open. Building owner Jeff Moore is looking at a $20,000 estimate provided by Brix operators to restore windows that are covered with plywood.

BDP
01-15-2009, 03:42 PM
Parking: OKC's most detrimental non-existent problem.

I just wonder what downtown and bricktown would be like if it actually had all of this additional parking these people seem to think it needs to make it viable. I mean, I eat down there at least twice a week on average and go out in bricktown and to games about 3-4 times a month and NEVER pay for parking. I just can't even wrap my head around there being more parking in a city center...

I mean, most places you go to you're going to park twice as far, if at all, and pay twice as much. Even where there is public transit, you often have to walk farther than it would take you to walk across our entire downtown area. I read stuff like this and the corresponding comments and I sometimes wonder if these people are from Mars. I try and understand. I just can't.

OKCMallen
01-15-2009, 04:30 PM
It's a cultural thing. People think that they should be able to park right in front of where they're going. They want all the cool parts of urban density without having any density. And to those people I say- feel free to stay out in Yukon.

southernskye
01-15-2009, 05:22 PM
It's a cultural thing. People think that they should be able to park right in front of where they're going.
No, it's a laziness thing.

BDP
01-16-2009, 09:00 AM
It's a cultural thing.

No doubt. But we're not talking about that much space really. Do we really not have enough people in Oklahoma City that value the experience of living or working in an area with dozens of nearby services and amenities to choose from more than making sure they don't walk 300 feet more every day? How do we even know that the entire culture is against this when developers haven't really given people in Oklahoma City a choice? It seems to me that it is a constant scapegoat for developers to justify leaving this stuff vacant.

The reality is that we really don't know how many Oklahomans might choose a real urban setting to live and work in because they don't have much choice. The fact that we can get it at all given the lack of amenities downtown should indicate to at least some of these developers and tennants that there would be even more demand if the area actually offered a complete urban option, where not having immediate parking every second of the day is more than made up for by the amount of services offered within walking distance.

It could certainly be that working in an office park surrounded by a large moat of black top, parking half a dozen times instead of once to run errands, and putting as much space between each other is simply the culture of Oklahoma, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea that a metro area of 1.2 million can't support at least one vibrant, fully occupied, and fully serviced urban district.

The thing is that the parking problem will not be solved by adding more parking as much as it will be solved by making the area more desirable than front door parking. You really have to make it so that the choice is 1) working in a wasteland with no walkable services, but front door parking or 2) working in a vibrant community where, after you park once for the day, you never need your car again. So, really, the way to get over the parking problem, imo, is to fully develop the area to maximize its density potential and mitigate any parking concerns by offering an experience unavailable anywhere else in the city.

The area can not compete by simply converting to the sprawl model that guides development across the rest of the city. It needs to find a way to actually deliver what it promises and it will never do that until it gets over the parking obsession. Anyone who is even considering moving to the area obviously does not put the same priority on front door parking as someone who finds it better to build a campus on memorial or nichols hills. They want more, yet, ironically, it's this obsessive over emphasis on parking that is keeping our city from offering it to them.

Urbanized
01-18-2009, 08:09 AM
Hear, hear.

danielf1935
01-18-2009, 08:24 AM
Talk about being "Clueless in Bricktown"

metro
01-19-2009, 11:07 AM
Lets just hope this is more than a hope, and life actually comes to the upper floors. I'll believe it when I see it.

OKCMallen
01-19-2009, 11:31 AM
No, it's a laziness thing.

You are so contrary sometimes. We're saying the same thing.

dismayed
01-20-2009, 11:21 PM
The thing is that the parking problem will not be solved by adding more parking as much as it will be solved by making the area more desirable than front door parking.

I totally agree with this statement, both from a retail and from a living standpoint. About once a year I consider moving down there and look into it a bit, and decide against it. I want to live in "Manhattan," not "the Bronx." There is a serious lack of unique and livable amenities down there. It does get better every year though, which is encouraging. Unfortunately it has been moving at a slow trickle for more than a decade now.

okclee
01-21-2009, 10:22 AM
^^ Dismayed, I agree with you and about once a year I too consider moving downtown and I decide against it. Eventually I think I will, but the snail pace at the development is what bothers me.

Makes you wonder how many people are in the same situation?

metro
01-21-2009, 10:43 AM
I think if enough of the fence riders took the plunge, it would help speed up development downtown and make it more attractive for the potential businesses also riding the fence. If there were enough residents, they wouldn't have to hesitate if they had the money to jump in the market.

okclee
01-21-2009, 10:47 AM
Agreed and I do feel the same way, but I will wait until there are a few more that take the plunge.

Luke
01-21-2009, 11:51 AM
The title of this thread almost had me convinced that Life church was franchising above Spaghetti Warehouse! Haha

okclee
01-21-2009, 12:14 PM
Definitely something that Bricktown doesn't have, a church, great idea. Give it time and I could see "Life church on the Bricktown Canal".

metro
01-21-2009, 12:57 PM
Definitely something that Bricktown doesn't have, a church, great idea. Give it time and I could see "Life church on the Bricktown Canal".

Already done, the church used to have a branch called Oasis in the club on Sundays next to the now defunct Lit.

Luke
01-21-2009, 01:00 PM
Already done, the church used to have a branch called Oasis in the club on Sundays next to the now defunct Lit.

I believe Oasis still meets there.

metro
01-21-2009, 01:13 PM
maybe, i dunno, haven't gone to a service at that location in years.

southernskye
01-21-2009, 03:01 PM
Definitely something that Bricktown doesn't have, a church, great idea. Give it time and I could see "Life church on the Bricktown Canal".

Only if you can move one of the churches down there from my neighborhood.
OKC already has way too many churches.

Mr. T in OKC
01-22-2009, 02:57 PM
Only if you can move one of the churches down there from my neighborhood.
OKC already has way too many churches.

Although this statement sounds evil, I agree completely. Driving around the other day, I thought "Damn, there sure are a lot of churches around here." I would like to see more people giving 10% of there income to a taxable venture.

Doug Loudenback
01-26-2009, 07:27 AM
Steve has some nice photos of the upper floors of the Mideke Supply Building being lit up at night ... see Fun New View of the Mideke Supply Building (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/01/25/fun-new-view-of-the-mideke-supply-building/) ... and a story to go along with them.

warreng88
01-26-2009, 08:36 AM
Doug, I asked this on Steve's blog and haven't gotten an answer yet, but hopefully someone can help me. Are the upper floors going to be office, residential or both?

Doug Loudenback
01-26-2009, 03:06 PM
I have no clue, Warreng88. Sorry.

Steve
01-26-2009, 03:24 PM
I've answered... on blog

warreng88
01-26-2009, 04:29 PM
Posting it here right after I posted there. Thanks for the answer Steve.

warreng88
01-28-2009, 03:12 PM
Are there any plans at all for the top floors of Spaghetti Warehouse to get renovated and opened up? It seems like slowly but surely several are at least looking occupied, not completely bricked up. The area above Brix is going to opened up, above Melting Pot, and the other ones mentioned in this story. I looked at the building online and there are holes for 128 windows just on the south and west side alone.

metro
03-17-2009, 07:34 AM
Developers breathe new life into historic Bricktown buildings
by Kelley Chambers
The Journal Record March 17, 2009
OKLAHOMA CITY – Renovating hundred-year-old buildings that have been neglected for decades is no easy task.

Just ask Chuck Ainsworth, who is in the process of taking a dilapidated building in Bricktown and turning it into office and retail space. Fortunately for Ainsworth, renovation of the building, which was built between 1912 and 1919, held few surprises.Fellow re-developers recently have had similar fortune in Bricktown, where buildings designed for industrial use continue to find new life as retail and office space.
Ainsworth has spent a year renovating the abandoned building at 1 E. Sheridan Ave., which is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. It was originally home to Stanford Furniture Co. and later Bunte Candy.

The building, called the Candy Factory, has been gutted and redone, with new windows and a glassed-in elevator tower on the north side.

“The project is going extremely well,” Ainsworth said. “We’re right on budget and right on target.”

Leasing has also gone well. Ainsworth said he would announce tenants within 30 days.
“Those industrial buildings were not built to be office buildings and nightclubs,” Ainsworth said. “They present some unique challenges.”

Several buildings in the district are on the National Register, and most do not comply with ADA standards. Doors and ceilings first built to accommodate manufacturing also have to be delicately altered to serve a new purpose and meet historic standards.

A block south of the Candy Factory is another renovation project that is just beginning.
Overlooking the Bricktown Canal at 2 E. California Ave. and 12 E. California are adjoined buildings, one of which is the old J.I. Case Plow Works Building. Plans call for renovating the long-ailing structures as restaurant, retail and office space. The east side of the building is occupied by Zio’s Italian Kitchen.

That effort is led by Martin Goldstein of Venture Architecture. The properties are owned by Diversified Historic Properties, which includes Harding & Shelton LLC.

An iconic water tower that once carried a Red Ball Transfer Storage logo was restored and replaced atop the building.

The project has received approval for historic tax credits to help fund the renovations. As income-producing properties, the buildings are eligible for a 20-percent federal income tax credit and a 20-percent state income tax credit. To obtain those, the project had to be approved by the state, the National Park Service and the U.S. Department of the Interior.

The Plow Works Building was added to the National Register in 1983.

Goldstein said the owners are looking at costs and testing the local market before work begins. Plans for an LED sign for the tower must also be approved by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee. That item is expected to be on the committee’s April agenda.
Goldstein said there were no real surprises in the building.

“There were little things, nothing huge,” he said. “The building’s in great shape. Those buildings are built far more durably than anything today.”

Ainsworth said with his project near completion, nothing unexpected in the structure seriously delayed the renovation efforts.

“We didn’t really encounter many surprises, which is unusual,” he said. “On most old projects you will find a surprise.”

The Journal Record - Article (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=96905)

BDP
03-17-2009, 08:36 AM
Plans for an LED sign for the tower must also be approved by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee.

I think it would be very cool to see real time Thunder scores on this, as well as have it used as a general event and welcome marquee.

sroberts24
03-17-2009, 08:53 AM
check out Venture Architecture's website, they have some really great picture of all they have planned
http://www.venturearchitecture.com/

BDP
03-17-2009, 02:34 PM
I really think the key to getting the canal going is to make sure every canal level and street level property has al fresco access. I know Oklahoma City's climate isn't sunny and 75 degress 300 days a year, but, really, the canal experience is all about being outside, right?

Right now it seems only Bourbon Street and Chelino's offer real al fresco dining. Every bar and every restaurant in that area should have outdoor seating, imo. It should be THE street people think about when they think outdoor dining in OKC, yet it doesn't even look like it was designed that way. I almost think it should be a zone ordinance that at least 15% of your seating should be outside on California Street. Doing so would really bring more energy and ambiance to the area in a way that maybe we'd see a little less turnover just from the fact that the novelty would sell itself.

I just can't see the chain food model working without some added value, and having easy access to eat or have cocktails by or above the canal would seem to increase the attraction and viability of that area immensely. In fact, I can't believe that anyone would want it any other way. Otherwise, what was the point?

BPD
03-17-2009, 03:42 PM
I'm not sure you could pay me enough to try to eat outside in OKC. Heat.........Cold.........Wind. Sorry, but this ain't Paris.

mecarr
03-17-2009, 04:51 PM
I'm not sure you could pay me enough to try to eat outside in OKC. Heat.........Cold.........Wind. Sorry, but this ain't Paris.

On days like this i'd sure sit outside. And also, even in the summer months it can cool down quite a bit by nighttime.

shane453
03-17-2009, 06:12 PM
I really think the key to getting the canal going is to make sure every canal level and street level property has al fresco access. I know Oklahoma City's climate isn't sunny and 75 degress 300 days a year, but, really, the canal experience is all about being outside, right?

Right now it seems only Bourbon Street and Chelino's offer real al fresco dining. Every bar and every restaurant in that area should have outdoor seating, imo. It should be THE street people think about when they think outdoor dining in OKC, yet it doesn't even look like it was designed that way. I almost think it should be a zone ordinance that at least 15% of your seating should be outside on California Street. Doing so would really bring more energy and ambiance to the area in a way that maybe we'd see a little less turnover just from the fact that the novelty would sell itself.

I just can't see the chain food model working without some added value, and having easy access to eat or have cocktails by or above the canal would seem to increase the attraction and viability of that area immensely. In fact, I can't believe that anyone would want it any other way. Otherwise, what was the point?

Zio's, Mickey Mantle's, and the Biting Sow all have outdoor seating areas along California Street (in addition to Chelino's and Bourbon Street). In Lower Bricktown, Falcone's, Redpin, Bolero, In the Raw, Starbucks, and Toby Keiths all have patio seats along the canal frontage. Most of the places offer outdoor seating, it's just a question of whether people use it (and on a nice day like the ones we've been having, they are full chairs.)

betts
03-17-2009, 06:58 PM
I'm not sure you could pay me enough to try to eat outside in OKC. Heat.........Cold.........Wind. Sorry, but this ain't Paris.

Chicago is full of outdoor dining areas. They may not have the heat, but they've got a lock on cold and wind. We've got a lot more outdoor days than they do.

SWOKC 4 me
03-17-2009, 07:28 PM
Zio's, Mickey Mantle's, and the Biting Sow all have outdoor seating areas along California Street (in addition to Chelino's and Bourbon Street). In Lower Bricktown, Falcone's, Redpin, Bolero, In the Raw, Starbucks, and Toby Keiths all have patio seats along the canal frontage. Most of the places offer outdoor seating, it's just a question of whether people use it (and on a nice day like the ones we've been having, they are full chairs.)

We were in BT on sunday afternoon and wanted to eat at Toby Keiths outside but they were not offering outside seating. A bummer on such a nice afternoon. It really irks me when the places that do have outside seating do not use it!

SWOKC 4 me
03-17-2009, 07:37 PM
After a look at Venture Architecture's website it almost looks like they have planned enclosed patio seating. This could be a good idea for BT for year round seating. Maybe on the very hot days and very cold days it could be enclosed and heated/cooled, and when the weather is nice the windows could be fully opened (maybe garage door style large windows that can be fully lifted or sliding windows that can be tucked back into a wall) making it outdoor seating.

GWB
03-17-2009, 07:43 PM
I'm not sure you could pay me enough to try to eat outside in OKC. Heat.........Cold.........Wind. Sorry, but this ain't Paris.

And don't forget the flies.

kevinpate
03-18-2009, 04:48 AM
> And don't forget the flies.

Shhhhhh, don't give it up, or everyone is gonna want free flies

BDP
03-18-2009, 09:41 AM
I'm not sure you could pay me enough to try to eat outside in OKC.

I don't think you have to worry about that.

You guys are probably right. It's just not in the culture to go outside here, even though markets much hotter do it.

Maybe the canal was just a bad idea in Oklahoma. I can't really figure out what it's for it people don't ever want to hang out on it...

soonerguru
03-18-2009, 11:18 AM
Maybe the canal was just a bad idea in Oklahoma. I can't really figure out what it's for it people don't ever want to hang out on it...


You can ride the little yellow boats......

BDP
03-18-2009, 01:21 PM
You can ride the little yellow boats......

But, again, you're outside. Who would want to do that?