View Full Version : Tom and Jerry's



bombermwc
12-04-2008, 08:10 AM
Anyone else been to Tom and Jerry's on 23rd near OCU? It's in an old Captain D's. Thought I'd give a quick review over my recent dinner there.

The atmosphere inside is nice, looks better inside than out for sure. The place isn't hopping, so that creates a down side. One person serves as the Host/Waiter/Buss. The guy was mostly on top of things though...I tried not to think too much about it since he was the only one there.

We went for the Tappas. They have 1/2 price Tappas on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. I'll say one thing for sure. There is no reason to pay full price for their Tappas....they weren't that great. You can probably make it at home just as easily. Nothing was bad or anyhing, but it wasn't just so amazing that it should be $20 (regular price) for a sampler plate. We had both the hot and cold plates as well as a house salad.

The salad was good. Very fresh and crisp....no yuck lettuce in there. And a twist we didn't expect was the citrus water. One bad note to that though is that they don't tell you about it....so if you're allergic, you have no way of knowing before hand. Obviously not an issue for 99.9% of the people out there.

We went specifically to try their Tapps so we didn't go out into the rest of the menu. But from what we saw, it looked very good. If anyone has any insight on the other dishes, do share.

Overall, for 2 people for a nice dinner, $35....not bad. We were full, but still had room for some dessert later. Probably won't go back just because it's a long drive just for dinner, but it's a nice place.

metro
12-04-2008, 08:30 AM
Yeah, there's already a thread with several reviews, and BTW it's definitely one of OKC's nicer restaurants and fairly inexpensive for what you get too. I recommend the coffee/peppercorn crusted filet.

http://www.okctalk.com/food-court/12006-tom-jerrys.html

metro
02-20-2009, 08:28 AM
Got this email last night. It was a surprise. I'm wondering if the old Iguana Lounge that tuck and others assure us is going to be torn down and an upscale concept going in, if that is where T&J is moving to?


Dear Guest,

Enjoy Tom & jerry's Steak and Fish Grille, as you know it, one last time, this weekend before the unveiling of their new concept, MexiCasa by Tom and Jerry's! MexiCasa by Tom and Jerry's will offer exciting Mexican and Tex-Mex favorites and unique dishes that the whole family can enjoy in a festive and brightly colored atmosphere that will make every meal feel like a Fiesta!

For fans of Tom & Jerry's Steak and Fish Grille, you won't have to wait too long to enjoy fine Euro- American Bistro style cuisine at our new location in Nichols Hills. You will be able to enjoy a new metro fine dining version of Tom & Jerry's with all the same personal touch that you have come to expect from Tom & Jerry's with new menu items and old favorites.

So join us this weekend as we put on our hard hats and experience any of our menu items that you have not tried or order any of your favorite dishes from the Tom & Jerry's Steak and Fish Grille menu before they are gone.

Sincerely,
Jerry Hency

http://www.mexicasaokc.com/Websites/mexicasaokc/Images/SouthWest_thumb_thumb.jpg
New Look! New Menu!
MexiCasa by Tom & Jerry's!

1501 NW 23rd St.
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 73106

Grand Opening!
February 25th, 2009
For Lunch and Dinner!


MexiCasa by Tom & Jerry's offers a variety of authentic Mexican and Tex-Mex dishes with a family spirit. Everyone works together, not only as a team, but as a family. When customers come to MexiCasa they are treated just that way, like a part of our family. We welcome our customers to come and taste the difference-once you give us a try you'll never go anywhere else for fresh cooked, authentic Mexican and Tex-Mex food. Not only will you feel the difference, we guarantee you will taste the difference!

Thomas Batista and Jerry Hency, the owners and area residents are proud to be a part of the growth of Oklahoma City and promise to always great service, quality food and a unique dining experience for you whole family. We hope that you find this Web site helpful, and look forward to seeing you at the all new MexiCasa!

Home | Mexicasa by Tom & Jerry's (http://www.mexicasaokc.com/)

bandnerd
02-20-2009, 09:18 AM
because we don't have enough Mexican places already?

...

mecarr
02-20-2009, 11:32 AM
because we don't have enough Mexican places already?

...

yea no kidding.. I am "tex-mexed" out..but didn't they mention they were gonna open up a european bistro type place somewhere in the metro?

lasomeday
02-20-2009, 11:50 AM
So, will their new European bistro be in the Classen Curve?

tuck
02-20-2009, 12:10 PM
First I have heard of this; I wish them luck. I don't think they are going to Classen Curve, but could be wrong. They might be moving into the old Iguana, but once again; not sure on this either.

I didn't say that the old Iquana site would be torn down. I sure wouldn't lease that space without some MAJOR renovations paid for by someone else.

metro
02-20-2009, 12:28 PM
tuck, thanks for correcting me. I'm just wondering if this is the "new upscale concept" that has been rumored to be coming to Nichols Hills.

lasomeday, I don't think their N.H. concept will be new, I believe it's the same concept, just new location and their old location they are turning into the tex-mex place. Really odd they'd do such a boring concept in an overcrowded market. They do have great food though, so I'm sure it will be better than average tex-mex.

tuck
02-20-2009, 03:11 PM
Might be good draw for OCU students.

okclee
02-20-2009, 03:17 PM
I drove by today and there were painters on the outside of the building. They had some of the building painted most were bright colors, purple, lime green, yellow. I wondered what was going on because of the color choices.

metro
02-20-2009, 03:24 PM
I drove by today and there were painters on the outside of the building. They had some of the building painted most were bright colors, purple, lime green, yellow. I wondered what was going on because of the color choices.

see the picture above....:LolLolLol

okclee
02-20-2009, 03:26 PM
haha, I don't how I missed it the first time. Need sunglasses while looking at that pic, especially on my monitor.

jbrown84
02-20-2009, 06:06 PM
Interesting. I haven't been to Tom & Jerry's, but it wasn't the most ideal building to house a fine dining establishment.

metro
02-23-2009, 10:54 AM
jbrown, you need to go when they open back up, you're missing some fine food, and their prices are very reasonable, cheaper than the other fine establishments.

mecarr
02-23-2009, 11:33 AM
jbrown, you need to go when they open back up, you're missing some fine food, and their prices are very reasonable, cheaper than the other fine establishments.

I don't know if I would call it cheap. My wife and I went, got two $5 glasses of wine, an appeteizer and two entrees (steak). Total with tip: $95.

asta2
02-23-2009, 03:07 PM
The new Tom and Jerry's will be on North May in the building next to Gulfport Seafood. I think where the Modern Appliance store was.

bombermwc
02-24-2009, 07:39 AM
I only went once, for Tappas, but I was definitely unimpressed to be honest. Their tappas at least were nothing to be excited about. Instead of making real tappas, they went more on the appetizer feel. There's a big difference so it was a let down. The place was nice enough, but it was weird being in Captain D's.

One thing people should keep in mind is that there aren't many Mexican or Tex-Mex places in that area. The student crowd will probably eat this up (no pun intended). It's walking distance from OCU.

metro
02-24-2009, 07:58 AM
I don't know if I would call it cheap. My wife and I went, got two $5 glasses of wine, an appeteizer and two entrees (steak). Total with tip: $95.

They have weekly specials and several nice dishes for around $12-$15 bucks too. It's a good place to get gourmet food cheap, or you can still drop some good money if you want, but the food quality is excellent, even at their cheaper priced items. My wife and I can easily get out of there for $30-$35 w/o wine. I had one of the best steaks ever there, their coffee/peppercorn strip steak is usually like $12.99 and it comes with their garlic mashed potatoes and another side, plus the complimentary bread. Far better than a $30 steak you'd by at name your place chain restaurant.

mcgrawsdad
02-24-2009, 07:08 PM
They have weekly specials and several nice dishes for around $12-$15 bucks too. It's a good place to get gourmet food cheap, or you can still drop some good money if you want, but the food quality is excellent, even at their cheaper priced items. My wife and I can easily get out of there for $30-$35 w/o wine. I had one of the best steaks ever there, their coffee/peppercorn strip steak is usually like $12.99 and it comes with their garlic mashed potatoes and another side, plus the complimentary bread. Far better than a $30 steak you'd by at name your place chain restaurant.


I agree metro...T&J's is one of my favorite restaurants...I'm looking forward to trying their tex-mex menu.

CarltonsKeeper
02-28-2009, 10:09 AM
Where exactly is the "Mexicasa" restaurant at, anyone know?

mecarr
02-28-2009, 12:34 PM
I guess they have now been open a few days. Has anyone tried it out? The outside of the place definitely looks festive, although I would take down all those Bud Light flags

Prunepicker
03-01-2009, 12:08 AM
I admit to ignorance about Tom & Jerry's. What is it? At first I was reading
"Ben and Jerry's". I'd like to know.

Thanks!

Prunepicker
03-01-2009, 08:57 PM
What is Tom & Jerry's?

JakeZula
03-01-2009, 09:00 PM
What is Tom & Jerry's?

From what I can tell, it's a fairly popular upscale fish and steak joint, and I've heard it's great. I've been wanting to try them out for a while, but when I finally decided to, I found MexiCasa instead, unfortunately.

Here's T&J's website:
Home Page | tomandjerrys (http://www.tomandjerrysokc.com/)

Prunepicker
03-01-2009, 09:10 PM
From what I can tell, it's a fairly popular upscale fish and steak joint, and I've
heard it's great.

Here's T&J's website:
Home Page | tomandjerrys (http://www.tomandjerrysokc.com/)

Thanks! Now I know. It's near OCU. I've driven by it many, many times and
it never occurred that it was a restaurant. The menu looks great!

JakeZula
03-01-2009, 09:19 PM
Now I know. It's near OCU. I've driven by it many, many times and
it never occurred that it was a restaurant.

Yeah, it's a strange little building; I always figured it was a dive because it was in an old Captain D's. However, the original Tom and Jerry's is no longer there, as mentioned above.

Andrea
03-04-2009, 11:14 AM
My husband did a wonderful thing- he made dinner reservations for Valentine's Day. Unfortunaly, it was at Tom and Jerry's! We did learn one thing- when the couple seated at the table next to you abruptly leaves...follow! Especially when the table is 3 inches away! There were MANY unhappy eaters that evening. Bar was slow, kitchen was slow, food was inedible and over-priced, the owner made me (a very pregnant lady), get my own coat from the back after the door person checked it, my husband's credit card was not returned when he paid.

Here is what others are saying on yelp.com...
Is there a no star option? My Fiance made a 7:30 reservation for Valentines Day, a month in advance. When we arrived, there were 10+ couples all huddled around the entrance. Apparently there was no wait staff. There was no explanation as to what was taking so long or what the problem was. After half an hour, a gal came over to tell us that now they were "just trying to get the tables cleaned off as fast as possible." We left after about 40 minutes of standing around and not even being able to check in. Did I mention that it was freezing?

I'm sorry, but if you give us a reservation and tell us there will be a $40 charge for not keeping it, you'd damn well better have a table ready when we get there. I'm considering sending Jerry a bill for $40 for not keeping his end of the bargain.

We ended up getting a couple of bottles of wine and a pizza from Hideaway. Our pizza was delicious, and the customer service there is great.

Oh, I have a $25 Restaurant.com - Deals on neighborhood restaurants. $25 Restaurant Certificates for only $10! (http://restaurant.com) gift certificate to Tom & Jerry's that's free for the taking. Message me if you want it. Maybe you'll have better luck.

batistahome
03-04-2009, 04:42 PM
Check the inside pics of mexicasa at mexicasaokc.com

metro
03-05-2009, 08:25 AM
That really surprises me, they must be having management or staffing problems as of lately. Perhaps the good waitstaff quit when they found out they were turning it into MexiCasa? This really baffles me as I've had nothing but excellent food and service there.

Oh and Andrea,

I'll take the GC if you still have it, I'd love to give them another shot. For some reason, your PM feature isn't enabled.

mecarr
03-05-2009, 10:02 AM
For the record, my wife and I ate there the day before Valentines day. It was a friday night. Anyway, we had reservations for 6:30 and everything went great. Admittedly, the place was probably 33% full. One thing that was a bit annoying was that people were seated very close to each other, so it made it awkward because you felt like you had to whisper or else everyone would hear what you were saying. The food was really good, but pricey. We ordered two steaks, one appetizer which was small, and two $5 glasses of wine. Total w/ tip: $95.

JakeZula
03-05-2009, 01:29 PM
For those of you who read my previous review of MexiCasa (it's since been removed), I would like to encourage you to give the restaurant a chance. Had I realized that the place had only been open for two days, I would not have rushed to judgement based on a singular dining experience.

I realize that every new business has obstacles to overcome, and my negative review did nothing to improve T&J's situation. I couldn't wholeheartedly endorse a restaurant based on a single good dining experience, so it follows that I can't bash a place based on one bad night. Tom and Jerry's has an impeccable reputation, and I only expect the new restaurant to improve.

I, for one, (as I stated in my original review) am going to give them another try.

Karried
03-05-2009, 01:39 PM
That's very nice of you .....

jbrown84
03-05-2009, 02:06 PM
Why was your review removed? What was so bad about your experience. I didn't get a chance to read it.

JakeZula
03-05-2009, 02:11 PM
I asked the admins to remove my review because, in retrospect, I felt it was unfair.

To sum up, they were overwhelmed that night, and the food and service suffered greatly for it. The manager was very nice to us, and I could tell they were struggling with the new staff and menu. Like I said, had I realized it was their second day of business, I would have been more understanding.

amaesquire
03-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Gird your loins, fellow restaurant goers, as the new Mexican eatery Mexicasa has just opened. Located at 1501 N.W. 23rd St. in Oklahoma City, Mexicasa offers all that you’d expect from a restaurant whose name is a conflation of “Mexico” and the Spanish word for “house”: a down to earth establishment filled with south of the border accents. Depending on your specific inclinations, however, those with eclectic tastes may find their dining experience more of an eclectic waste.

Upon first blush, the Mexicasa environment is an effectual hodgepodge of what it would look like if Alfred Nobel tested his first blasting caps on a piñata filled with pink paint. The walls are covered with what looks to be multi colored papier-mâché while the building itself and some inside effects are highlighted in a bright pink. Although this concoction isn’t necessarily displeasing, some may find it to be less than appealing. One of the dining members of our party pointed out one particular visual affront on the east wall: a cow-skinned hanging lined with poorly stapled paper streamers. Luckily, however, most customers do not go to restaurants simply for what is on the walls.

A huge positive came with the second thing you’d notice when entering: the staff. Our server was very nice and friendly, and although he did not know what number of one of the entrees (it’s the second day of operation, we can let that slide), he was always ready to help with any of our needs.

Like many Mexican restaurants (whether or not they are affiliated with any casas), chips and salsa were provided before the meal. The queso that Mexicasa is great. Seriously awesome. However, the normal salsa leaves something to be desired; while full of large bits of fresh vegetables, it’s a little watery for my tastes. But enough of starters, what about the entrees?

Unfortunately, little excitement can be had for the main course. Like the salsa, the main dish (two beef tacos with beans and rice) claimed no blue ribbons in my internal county fair. While two beef tacos with beans and rice are pretty much a staple of any Mexican restaurant, what was found here was a dish fairly devoid of taste, as if the Hadron Super Collider did in fact create a black hole but the vacuum only affected the taste of this rice, these beans, and those tacos. The meal was entirely edible and will satiate a growling stomach, but what you get my not be justified in the price.

The dollar amounts that are set seem to be above what one would envision for a lunch menu with some caveats. For the meal described above, I payed $8.66 (without a drink). Dinner entrees ranged at $10 and above. Mexicasa does do something that this reviewer has not seen before, and that is giving out complimentary sopapillas. For some that could help justify the cost, but on the whole, the value of the entire meal seems lacking.

Overall, the dining experience was not wholly unpleasant. Mexicasa is brand new and does have some rough edges, and most places do have some growing pains. The staff was good and it is in a location that does have a dearth of “sit-down” Mexican establishments. In the end, however, I would be hard-pressed to find myself back there if certain things like price and the quality of food does not change.

metro
03-10-2009, 07:38 AM
Tom & Jerry’s finds sombrero fits well
by Kelley Chambers
The Journal Record March 10, 2009

OKLAHOMA CITY – With piñata colors of pink, blue and gold splashed on the walls, a Tex-Mex menu and a new name, many patrons of Tom & Jerry’s Steak and Fish Grill may think the owners of the upscale eatery have moved on.

http://www.journalrecord.com/_images/articles/t_labskc-restaurants_MS%2003-10-09.jpg
Jerry Hency and Thomas Batista, owners of Mexicasa at 1501 NW 23rd St. The two opened Tom & Jerry’s Steak and Fish Grill six years ago. Two weeks ago they reopened the restaurant as Mexicasa. Plans call for a new Tom & Jerry’s on N. May Avenue set to open in about four months. (Photo by Maike Sabolich)

But Thomas Batista and Jerry Hency are still very much at the helm of the eatery at 1501 NW 23rd St.About two weeks ago the six-year-old Tom & Jerry’s officially closed and reopened as Mexicasa. Gone is the fancy furniture and elegant place settings, and in their place are baskets of homemade tortilla chips, dishes of salsa, colorful tabletops and chairs, and a lively Mexican décor designed by Batista.

Signature items like truffle fried chicken have been replaced by enchiladas and chimichangas, as well as a variety of tacos, nachos and salads.

Hency saw it was time to change the look, feel and cuisine at Tom & Jerry’s and reopen that restaurant closer to its customers from Nichols Hills and northwest Oklahoma City.
“We had a number of comments from clients over the last three or four years were ‘why don’t you move up north and we’ll eat there more often,’” he said.

The owners also knew the restaurant was out of place when its closest neighbors are Arby’s and a Chinese buffet.

But through the last six years they built up a loyal customer base, and the average check price with alcohol was about $50 per person. Meals at Mexicasa run from about $7 to $15.

Children rarely dined with their parents at Tom & Jerry’s. Hency said the new restaurant could better appeal to families than to people who would dress up and drive from across town to eat there.

Hency knew there are numerous Mexican restaurants around town, but none in close proximity to the area near NW 23rd Street and Classen Boulevard.

Since the changeover, Mexicasa has been packing in diners for lunch and dinner. Tom & Jerry’s usually only saw a handful of diners each day. Hency said there has often been a line over the past two weeks for the restaurant, which seats about 80.

“There have been lines out the door,” he said. “We haven’t had that since the restaurant opened six years ago.”

But it has not been without some backlash from customers who want Tom & Jerry’s back. Hency said for those who love the old concept, he does have plans to reopen Tom & Jerry’s at 8081 N. May Ave. in the next three to four months.

Restaurant owner Sean Cummings also knows a thing or two about changing horses midstream.

Last summer, he closed the doors on his nine-year-old eatery Boca Boca, at 9610 N. May Ave., and said business has increased threefold as Sean Cummings’ Irish Restaurant & Pub.

But many of his regular customers were thrown off when they heard their beloved eatery was going from gourmet fish and steaks to burgers and beer. “People thought I had lost my mind,” Cummings said with a laugh. Cummings said as a restaurant nears its eighth year, the owner needs to do a serious evaluation. In his case, Boca Boca has seen its better days and Cummings was ready for a change.

He said many restaurant owners get so caught up trying to constantly wow customers that they often forget that sometimes people just want good food at a good price. The check per person at Boca Boca was about $50, while at Cummings, it is about $20 per person.

“All of us in the gourmet business know how to make cheaper food and make it taste really good,” he said. “We were giving people what we believed they wanted.”

As consumers begin watching their wallets perhaps more closely than ever, Cummings said the demand for fine dining is waning, and those restaurants have to adapt if they hope to survive.

“In this economy we’re in, people are scared,” he said. “They still want to go out, they just can’t go out and spend $100.

“We have to change with the market or die.”

Hency is banking on his regular customers and families with kids continuing to drop by for affordable Mexican dishes in a fun environment.

The tone of the restaurant also has changed. At Tom & Jerry’s, the buttoned-down wait staff was seen but rarely heard. At Mexicasa, Hency encourages his team to fraternize with customers as they wait on tables donning bright pink shirts with the restaurant’s logo.

If the brand proves to be successful, Hency and Batista said they also are considering offering franchises.

Hency said in the restaurant’s first weeks, the chile relleno-a poblano pepper stuffed with meat and cheese and then fried and topped with ranchero sauce and sour cream-has been a big hit.

“That’s one of our favorite items,” he said.

The Journal Record - Article (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=96674)

jbrown84
03-10-2009, 05:21 PM
he does have plans to reopen Tom & Jerry’s at 8081 N. May Ave. in the next three to four months.

Googlemaps can't find that address, but it could be this building that notoriously sat unfinished for years.


8080 N. May Ave, oklahoma city - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=8080+N.+May+Ave,+oklahoma+city&sll=35.386706,-97.565589&sspn=0.008239,0.013733&ie=UTF8&ll=35.55337,-97.56707&spn=0.008222,0.013733&z=16&iwloc=addr&layer=c&cbll=35.553283,-97.567029&panoid=M1DZscxtLI9ls3N4nZgZtA&cbp=12,102.93108628934153,,0,9.640625000000014)

metro
03-11-2009, 08:41 AM
Don't ask me, I just copied and pasted the article....

jbrown84
03-12-2009, 09:32 AM
I wasn't.

icecold
03-14-2009, 03:27 PM
Went to mexicasa today for lunch. Needless to say I will probably never go back. The queso you get with your meal was pretty good. The salsa they give you is below average, fresh but no taste really. If you ask they do have a hotter salsa that they give you which is pretty good. I got the mexicasa tacos which are suppose to be like street vendor tacos they said. I had one steak and one chicken taco which came on corn tortillas. They were the greasiest tacos I have ever eaten. The meat in the tacos was not that good and the portion size of the meat was pretty small. All in all I thought everything was about $3 overpriced for what you were getting. I will not go back. San Marcos and Chelinos are too close for me to choose mexicasa over those two. Gave it a shot but all in all prolly a 4 out of 10 in my book.

jbrown84
03-16-2009, 05:06 PM
Went with a friend last week and was not impressed overall. I got the tamales--on beef, one chicken--the beef was actually pretty good, although small. The chicken one was just okay. The queso was different, but noting great. Chips were greasy. My friend didn't like his food at all. Worst of all was the service. I ordered extra beans, no rice, but ended up with double rice. I didn't say anything because by the time the food came, we had been there over an hour. When we first got there, it was fairly busy (had to wait for a table), but within a half hour it had emptied out a lot, but it still took forever to get the food.

I know they are new, but I will probably not go back unless I hear that they've improved greatly.

metro
04-14-2010, 12:40 PM
OK, so MexiCasa went under, and I never heard of Tom & Jerry's reopening near May or Nichols Hills as they intended to do. I drove by yesterday and someone was repainting their original building on NW 23rd. Anyone know what's going on?

pickles
04-14-2010, 03:12 PM
I loved their idea of replacing one of the city's worst and least consistent restaurant values with an atrocious tex mex joint in a garish pink and yellow building. That was an interesting choice.

john60
04-14-2010, 03:21 PM
A few weeks ago, my waitress at Hideaway on Western told me that a Tom and Jerry's restaurant was moving into the old Iguana Lounge space. Take that for what it's worth...

Midtowner
04-14-2010, 03:24 PM
Who is "they"?

Does "they" = Mexicasa or Hideaway?

jbkrems
04-14-2010, 03:55 PM
They are NOT moving into the old Iguana's Lounge space. That space is being converted into a new fine dining establishment owned by the same group as Pachinko Parlor. This is according to the bar manager at Pachinko. :)

metro
04-14-2010, 08:39 PM
So basically it sounds like no one knows what is up with Tom & Jerry's group?

khook
04-14-2010, 10:10 PM
It's dead.... they ran out of money.

rfjeep12
04-15-2010, 08:44 AM
They are NOT moving into the old Iguana's Lounge space. That space is being converted into a new fine dining establishment owned by the same group as Pachinko Parlor. This is according to the bar manager at Pachinko. :)

this is true. supposed to open this summer.

Platemaker
04-16-2010, 11:22 AM
They are NOT moving into the old Iguana's Lounge space. That space is being converted into a new fine dining establishment owned by the same group as Pachinko Parlor. This is according to the bar manager at Pachinko. :)

Iguana is the same people as Pachinko BTW.

Martin
04-16-2010, 11:36 AM
^
i've noticed that the sign has been left untouched while the building is being renovated... so is it going to be iguana once again?

-M

elreylion
04-16-2010, 03:30 PM
Ok, heres the facts,

Pachinko Parlor is owned by Rick Haynes and Eric Smith
Iguana is Owned by Steve Mason, Robert Painter and Ryan Parrott
Cru, which is opening on western in the old iguana space, is owned by Rick and David Haynes

Steve
04-16-2010, 08:13 PM
For what it's worth, what elreylion is saying matches what I've been told as well.