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route66gal
11-12-2008, 12:07 AM
This is one change I like. I didnt so much like the Disney land ditch they dug down in brickwork-- because I felt like the schools needed the money more, but I love this idea! How exciting!

Urbanized
11-13-2008, 01:45 PM
The schools also got money, route66gal. About $700 million from MAPS for Kids. Which probably wouldn't have passed if the original MAPS had not been so successful to begin with. Additionally, the Disney land ditch and other MAPS projects have elevated Oklahoma City to significant tourist destination status regionally.

What that means is that visitors come to Oklahoma city to ride the boats on the Disney land ditch, and go to the art museum -- which wouldn't have been built had MAPS not passed -- and NBA games at the Ford Center, and on and on. Those visitors bring their money here... ...and leave it. They pay sales tax that doesn't have to come from OKC residents. And they support new jobs in OKC, for people who in turn pay taxes, including new property taxes that support our school system.

Personally, I think that $23 million we spent on the canal was a pretty good deal.

metro
11-13-2008, 01:52 PM
The schools also got money, route66gal. About $700 million from MAPS for Kids. Which probably wouldn't have passed if the original MAPS had not been so successful to begin with. Additionally, the Disney land ditch and other MAPS projects have elevated Oklahoma City to significant tourist destination status regionally.

What that means is that visitors come to Oklahoma city to ride the boats on the Disney land ditch, and go to the art museum -- which wouldn't have been built had MAPS not passed -- and NBA games at the Ford Center, and on and on. Those visitors bring their money here... ...and leave it. They pay sales tax that doesn't have to come from OKC residents. And they support new jobs in OKC, for people who in turn pay taxes, including new property taxes that support our school system.

Personally, I think that $23 million we spent on the canal was a pretty good deal.

What's your nickname for the Oklahoma River if you call the canal a Disneyland Ditch?

Urbanized
11-13-2008, 10:00 PM
You should ask route66gal. She was the one who came up with that name for the canal. Me, I'm sortof fond of the place.

Sincerely,

The guy who runs boat tours on the "Disney land ditch."

Joe Kimball
11-13-2008, 10:30 PM
What's your nickname for the Oklahoma River if you call the canal a Disneyland Ditch?

If some things remain the same, outdoor plumbing.

metro
11-14-2008, 07:50 AM
You should ask route66gal. She was the one who came up with that name for the canal. Me, I'm sortof fond of the place.

Sincerely,

The guy who runs boat tours on the "Disney land ditch."


Since you're a boat operator, please make sure you guys have your rumors straight. I've heard way to many of the boat tour guides spewing false information to visitors.

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 09:18 AM
Believe me, it's a battle I've waged for years. I furnish them with more than forty pages of tour material, up-to-date, highly researched. I have a long history with downtown development and promotion, and understand the importance of accuracy in promoting the city. I work with the Bricktown Association, Downtown Oklahoma City Incorporated, the CVB and the Chamber to make sure that I have MY facts straight. I also pay a mystery shopping company to do regular shops to make sure the customer service aspects are covered properly, though random mystery shoppers can't be expected to know what rumors/facts/figures are correct.

When I ride the boats myself, the facts and figures are always correct, because they know I am listening and they don't throw out things they are unsure of.

The fact of the matter is, human nature is to hear exciting rumors and pass them along. They especially do this when some know-it-all hops on the boat and authoritatively tells them that "I'm so-and-so's brother in-law," and that this or that is happening. It's unfortunate, and it's lazy. I warn against it. I beg. I threaten. I cajole. But it is very difficult to catch it when it happens. I'm not sure what else I can do.

Fortunately, most of the guides don't do it, because they know better, and take pride in what they do. But every once in a while someone slips through who isn't as professional as everyone else, and who is intellectually lazy. It's my job to deal with that, and I do.

However, since it's hard to catch, it's sometimes hard to correct. It would be far more helpful if when someone who hears something while riding a boat and knows better they would politely correct the guide after the tour, or even contact me and let me know something had been said incorrectly. Far more helpful and constructive than giving them a blanket dissing on a message board, with no specifics. I'm not denying that incorrect information has been passed on at times; I'm just asking for your help in correcting it rather than a random slam. If you want to PM me with some specific information, I'd be more than happy to pass it on, and if you have a specific name, please be sure to include that.

All of that said, I will stand by most of my folks, who typically are very professional, give a high level of service, and (I hope) represent Oklahoma City very well.

Steve
11-14-2008, 11:19 AM
Unlike here at OKC Talk.
;)



Since you're a boat operator, please make sure you guys have your rumors straight. I've heard way to many of the boat tour guides spewing false information to visitors.

jbrown84
11-14-2008, 11:41 AM
"spewing" is an awfully loaded word.

What exactly were these dangerous rumors, metro?

metro
11-14-2008, 11:45 AM
Urbanized, thanks for your viewpoint. I apologize if my post came off as a blanket slam as it was not intended that way. Since I'm a local, I don't ride the boats that often, but hear stories from friends and family who have rode them. They tell me about rumors they heard on the tour boats, etc. As you may know, I'm pretty involved in the downtown information loop, so I can usually tell when it is true or not. I don't have a specific incident of recent, however I believe there is a recent thread on this site where someone mentioned in the last week or two that a tour guide said there was going to be a new hotel going up where Cotton's project was. I have heard this from no quality source downtown other than that thread. I agree, overall you all do a great work being ambassadors for this city. Keep it up!

Is there truth to this rumor?

http://www.okctalk.com/bricktown-wired/14827-rumored-8-story-hotel-bricktown.html

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 02:19 PM
Unlike here at OKC Talk.
;)
The difference, Steve, is that my company and my employees are being PAID to get it right, which is different than folks coming together on a message board just to hang out and express a general enthusiasm for OKC.

But yeah, it's hard sometimes to not let that enthusiasm get the better of you when you hear an exciting rumor, and at times even my folks fall victim to that, much to my chagrin. The other factor is that each year you essentially start over with a small core who have done it before, and a new group who has to be indoctrinated and made to understand the big picture.

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 02:31 PM
Urbanized, thanks for your viewpoint. I apologize if my post came off as a blanket slam as it was not intended that way. Since I'm a local, I don't ride the boats that often, but hear stories from friends and family who have rode them. They tell me about rumors they heard on the tour boats, etc. As you may know, I'm pretty involved in the downtown information loop, so I can usually tell when it is true or not. I don't have a specific incident of recent, however I believe there is a recent thread on this site where someone mentioned in the last week or two that a tour guide said there was going to be a new hotel going up where Cotton's project was. I have heard this from no quality source downtown other than that thread. I agree, overall you all do a great work being ambassadors for this city. Keep it up!

Is there truth to this rumor?

http://www.okctalk.com/bricktown-wired/14827-rumored-8-story-hotel-bricktown.html
No, there is not any truth to it. You'll notice that I posted as much in that thread. What you don't know is that on the day in which I posted there, I printed the thread out, and distributed it in my employees' paychecks with a memo regarding tour accuracy and describing my general disappointment.

In talking with one of my longtime guides, I got the feeling that this was like one of those moments where you whisper something into someone's ear, they pass it on, and by the time it makes it around the room it doesn't resemble the original story. That corner has for years been mentioned as a potentially great site for hotel development, but that wasn't a component of the Cotton Exchange, at all. Which I think most on here know is officially dead, anyway.

I think they heard each other talking about "great site for..." and some of them turned that into "this is what's going to happen." Unfortunately, that type of thing happens at times, since they are encouraged to ride each other's boats and glean from the tours of the more experienced.

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 02:38 PM
More about the challenge in having people get things right, if anyone's interested:

One wrinkle is that each year you have a load of new people who are further removed from MAPS and the changes it has made to our city. By that I specifically mean that a number of my employees are often college students, due to the seasonality of the job.

Think about this for a minute: a 20-year-old junior in college was five years old when MAPS passed. They were nine or ten when the ballpark opened. They have a very limited frame of reference.

Interestingly, I also get a lot of applicants who are from out of town. They are often more enthusiastic about the city, and Bricktown, than locals. Which is great. But again, they lack the perspective.

So I have to convince those people that MAPS, something that was passed 15 years ago, and was completed four years ago, is still worth talking about. To me, I rank talking about MAPS and the ensuing downtown rebirth as the highest priority on tours, followed by Oklahoma/OKC history, land run history, Native American, jazz/Deep Deuce and the like (in no specific order). Visitors NEVER fail to find it interesting, and that stuff is what sets OKC apart from every other city.

What can be a problem is convincing a 22 year old that their customers really want to hear about it. Youngsters (and sometimes even oldsters) often have a limited worldview, and think their customers are interested in the same things they are, and would be disinterested in boring stuff like penny sales taxes. In fact, visitors who pay to ride those boats (we carry far more visitors than locals) are ESPECIALLY interested in the things that make OKC different. An even greater challenge is to keep the guides personally engaged, especially when they have to repeat the same information many times a day, a couple hundred days each year. The good ones figure out that doing it right is very lucrative. Well-entertained, well looked-after and well-informed customers reward them handsomely, bored customers, not so much.

Overall we have had a great number of high points, and a few low points here and there (Steve, do you remember writing an article about the drivers promoting a never-to-materialize Hard Rock or Dick Clark's American Bandstand Bar and Grill, long after those deals were dead?). Those low points serve to keep me motivated. Have a drink with me sometime and I'll tell you about the lowest of the low, the retelling of which has become one of my primary training tools.

Steve
11-14-2008, 02:43 PM
Here's the story. It's interesting to look back at the final paragraph:

Those Bricktown tales are all wet

By Steve Lackmeyer, Jack Money
Staff Writers


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friday, May 19, 2000
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 1-A

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Linked Objects: (Click image for details)


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Everybody knows the Hard Rock Cafe is coming to Bricktown.

Just ask the guides on the Bricktown Canal water taxis - they'll tell you a local developer just signed a lease with the restaurant chain two weeks ago. It won't be long before the Rolling Stones help celebrate the grand opening of the Bricktown Hard Rock Cafe.


There is just one problem with this story: It isn't true.


Likewise, the owner of the Miller Jackson building has no plans to fill his decades-old warehouse with apartment lofts. These tales and others are being repeated as gospel, as excitement over Bricktown's future blurs the line between fact and fiction.


A downtown strategist with the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce isn't too troubled by the tall tales. As manager of the chamber's MAPS Private Investment program, Devery Youngblood has been hearing exaggerations for years.


"At the end of the day, enjoy the boat trip and take everything with a grain of salt," Youngblood said. "Bricktown is an optimistic place. And optimism sometimes spills over into overstating things a little bit."


The Hard Rock Cafe legend has floated around Bricktown for at least two years. And while no evidence exists the chain has even shown interest in Oklahoma City, it is true that Bricktown was once on the radar screen of Planet Hollywood.


The chain even wrote a local fan about two years ago saying Bricktown was in serious consideration - but that was before Planet Hollywood was devastated by aging star power and bankruptcy. So don't start planning on Bruce Willis' serving burgers along the canal anytime soon


Other tales of new hotels and a Dick Clark American Bandstand Cafe have more truth behind them - but observers say they too are far from being sure shots.


"Ideally, you'd like for everything these guides say to be accurate," Youngblood said. "But at the end of the day, it's all harmless fun. It's more local legend than malicious intent to defraud."


Besides, Youngblood said, tales of a Hard Rock Cafe were first spread by local reporters who always cited "unnamed sources."


"I've also heard breathless television reporters telling me the Skirvin would be reopened in three months and other big tales, but we don't shut you guys down," Youngblood told The Oklahoman .


Water taxi operator Norm Bekoff isn't planning on firing any guides over the Hard Rock Cafe tales. But he's ready to grill local developers.


"Don't these guys know that this is what's supposed to happen?" Bekoff joked. "I want to know why it isn't happening. They are supposed to be doing that."


Bekoff credits the slightly "off" tour information to enthusiasm among his guides for Bricktown.


"These guys are dealing with the public all the time," Bekoff said. "We issue a script to them, we are constantly training and we have a weekly update about Bricktown's happenings.


"They might get someone on the boat who tells them they know for a fact that something is going to happen, and they will parley that into the tour."


So what is true?


Next month, Zio's, an upscale Italian restaurant, will open across the canal from Chelinos.


Mickey Mantle Restaurant and the 501 Club will open in the next few weeks at JDM Place. Two hotel projects are in early planning; developers warn it is too early to guarantee rooms overlooking the water.


Bekoff promises the Hard Rock Cafe story will be eliminated from the boat tours. But he says his guides will remain giddy about Bricktown's future.


"I want to make sure visitors realize when they come down here and ride these boats that they have done something good - that by voting for MAPS they have started something that will spin off into other development that will really turn this community around," Bekoff said.


What's really coming to Bricktown? Sooner: Zio's Italian restaurant, Mickey Mantle Restaurant, 501 Club. Later: 21-screen theater and IMAX theater, plus two hotels.

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 02:54 PM
Anyway, enough about me. Let's return to the original topic, my friend and hero Scott Booker and his school of rock. If you're interested in hearing more about it first hand, you should attend the Chamber's Breaking Through luncheon next Tuesday at the Beacon Club. He will be on a panel with Jill Simpson, director of the Oklahoma Film and Music Office, plus the Dean of Music for OCU and an entertainment lawyer from McAfee and Taft, to discuss the music industry in Oklahoma and its potential for economic development. Here's a link (http://www.okcchamber.com/page.asp?atomid=632). See you there!

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 02:56 PM
Thanks for posting that story Steve. Can I call you a name on this board? :D

I will point out that I was NOT the GM here when that story came out. Automobile Alley had all of my attention back in those days.

Steve
11-14-2008, 03:05 PM
Oh great ... you've exposed my double top secret identity.

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 03:07 PM
Preferably not something about this thread.

route66gal
11-14-2008, 03:28 PM
The schools also got money, route66gal. About $700 million from MAPS for Kids. Which probably wouldn't have passed if the original MAPS had not been so successful to begin with. Additionally, the Disney land ditch and other MAPS projects have elevated Oklahoma City to significant tourist destination status regionally.

What that means is that visitors come to Oklahoma city to ride the boats on the Disney land ditch, and go to the art museum -- which wouldn't have been built had MAPS not passed -- and NBA games at the Ford Center, and on and on. Those visitors bring their money here... ...and leave it. They pay sales tax that doesn't have to come from OKC residents. And they support new jobs in OKC, for people who in turn pay taxes, including new property taxes that support our school system.

Personally, I think that $23 million we spent on the canal was a pretty good deal.

I dont think the ditch is the river.. its looks like a Disney thing, sorry to offend, the schools should have got all the money. I know the schools got some money on the deal, a sweetening if you will to get people into the idea.

If I remember right I may have voted for it because the schools needed any help they could get at the time, but that does not make me any less bitter that the inner city schools need more funding. Its a shame the Private business like Chesapeake have to take up the slack.

Disability programs and support for autism is really needed. Anyone that thinks building bricktown/downtown/ and midtown up while turning the cheek on such needs because they think the rich people will send their kids to private school are sadly mistaken. Autism is on the rise, not that many programs for them in the private school, they turn to public... none of this makes sense, since when anyway do the okc citizens, many which are not rich, like the people from the burbs who visit bricktown and downtown, why are we paying for things for them to do on the weekends when they dont even live here?? .. while they enjoy the benefits and we cant even send our kids to public school unless they are LUCKY enough to get into the classen school of arts or not have a disability and go to any of the magnets, what about the other kids? OKC should be ashamed.

The schools are overcrowded and underfunded, some dont even have gyms, they cant afford cleaning supplies, every other light bulb are taken out to save money on electric bills. I could go on and on.. :(

Urbanized
11-14-2008, 03:47 PM
I don't understand your post. Which are you talking about? The Oklahoma River, or the canal? I assume your description of the "Disney ditch" is directed at the canal.

What I don't understand most of all is your tying together of school funding and MAPS. The original MAPS votes had nothing to do with the schools. However, the passage and successful implementation of MAPS made it possible for the city to get the public behind MAPS for Kids. That never would have happened if MAPS had not been pulled off successfully.

MAPS for Kids directed more than $600 million (more than one and a half times the original MAPS total) into the OKC public school system, which is now experiencing a pretty dramatic turnaround, largely because of that funding. OKC residents since have also gotten behind school bond issues, which they traditionally hadn't passed before that, because they now saw the merits in investing in the community.

Additionally, the success of MAPS has since brought literally billions of dollars in new private investment in OKC, more jobs, higher paying jobs, higher property values... ...all of which ultimately puts more money into the coffers of the school system.

Also, those people coming from outside OKC to spend their money? They leave that money here. It creates jobs here. People with those jobs buy houses and spend THEIR money here. Which in turn supports the local infrastructure, the schools, you name it.

I understand and respect the need for special programs for disabled kids. But you don't fund those things through temporary dedicated sales taxes. MAPS was a big-picture initiative, a startlingly successful one, and if you think it was a mistake at this point you are one of the very, very few in this city who believes that.

route66gal
11-14-2008, 04:06 PM
Do you have anymore republican talking point to cover? A success? All the money that gets poured into bricktown.. like Bass Pro? How many jobs did that create? save it. People would have been behind funding the schools but we have to make the deal juicy by appeasing big business interests first or self interest within our gov and city cancel stands in the way.

Midtowner
11-14-2008, 04:08 PM
The schools are overcrowded and underfunded, some dont even have gyms, they cant afford cleaning supplies, every other light bulb are taken out to save money on electric bills. I could go on and on.. :(

Really... if you think that school funding versus public investment elsewhere is a zero-sum game, you are grossly misinformed.

route66gal
11-14-2008, 04:09 PM
I can not tell you how many of my friends, once they have children move out of OKC to Edmond and Norman. If the PUBLIC schools here were solid.. they would stay here. None of this will matter in the longterm if the City is not livable for families.

SWOKC 4 me
11-14-2008, 11:16 PM
Since this thread is already way off topic I will go ahead and make a brief comment about the boat tours myself.

I rode the boats twice this past summer and on both occasions I was quite disappointed with the tour guide. I remember riding the boat in the early days of MAPS and I got a lot of info on bricktown even though there wasn't much there yet. And when the guide was in an area that he didn't have much info about the talked about the buildings that could be seen on the downtown skyline and their history. As well as some history and future of the rest of the city and the state.

On the two occasions I rode recently the guides didn't even give a lot of info. The tour was kind of like... "There is Chelinos a great Mexican Restaurant- HI CHELINOS!!" (everyone waived to the people eating at chelinos on the upper patio) "...I have almost lost my head a time or two on this low bridge... There you see Zio's a great italian restaurant...." "....Hi kids..." (everyone waived to the family walking by.) "Is it anyone's Birthday or Anniversery on board? ... No? Well mine is in a few months lets all sing Happy birthday to me..." (boat sings Happy birthday to the guide) Then more waiving at people and more pointing out the obvious, like the movie theater, then talking about the latest hit movie, etc...

This is all paraphrased obviously but not really exaggerated.

My point is over all the guides seemed to know very little about Bricktown let alone anything else in the city. I liked it that the early boat captains found some piece of information about OKC or Oklahoma to pass along even when they had nothing else to talk about in the immediate area. It seems in my latest experiences the guides didn't know much and didn't care. I personally like info on the boat rides for myself and my guests, not just singing and waiving.

Okay I know I said brief comment but I kind of got off on a rant. I am sure there some great guides out there and I hate to make a blanket statement but this was my experience this past summer.

kevinpate
11-15-2008, 05:17 AM
the boat drivers talk too much, particularly to non-passengers.

There have been nights I wanted to find the owner and tell him that by and large, if those of us who choose to stroll wanted to visit with the boat ops, we probably would have gotten on the danged boat.

Urbanized
11-15-2008, 08:59 AM
SWOKC 4 me, I think you got an unlucky draw when you rode, and I apologize for that. I mentioned intellectual laziness earlier, and that is what that is. One of the things we strongly discourage is "sign reading." That is not a tour. Literacy in the United States is in the high nineties, percentile-wise, and the guide does his/her passengers, OKC, and even himself/herself no favors by reading signs instead of giving a tour. It's embarrassing that it has even happened. However, like I mentioned in an earlier post, it has to be caught in the act to correct, and that's difficult. Like I said, when I personally hop on a boat, the driver's tour suddenly becomes textbook, every time.

If you ride a boat and what you mentioned happens, I encourage you to call or e-mail your concerns (contact information can be found at www.bricktownwatertaxi.com (http://www.bricktownwatertaxi.com)), and to give me the name of your boat driver. Going away mad, or even telling me in this forum, doesn't help me figure out who does this, when it happens.

As I mentioned previously, we employ mystery shoppers, provide reams of resource material, give in-depth training that lasts for at least a week before turning the driver loose with passengers, and constantly remind our guides how important it is that they give passengers the best possible impression of OKC.

Fortunately most of them take this very seriously, and I think it shows in our complaint vs. compliment ratio. As most in the hospitality industry will tell you, complaints usually far outnumber compliments, as upset customers are usually far more motivated to bring their impressions to the operator's attention. I can also tell you that when someone complains about something on the boats, they often go directly to the Mayor's office or elsewhere in city hall, since many percieve it to be a city-run operation. How would you like it if complaints about the way you do your job came to you from the Mayor's office? Believe me, I am very motivated to see that my people get it right. Fortunately those calls have been exceedingly rare over the years.

After carrying more well over a million passengers, I can tell you that we get far more compliments than complaints, unusual in the hospitality industry, which is something that I think is a testament to the vast majority of the people we have employed.

Is there the occasional person who slips through and decides to give minimal effort? Sure, like any place of employment. I'm dealing with human beings here, not robots. But when the public brings specific issues like that to our attention, we deal with it quickly, and decisively. I very much encourage comments like those, but they don't do me that much good when they don't have a name attached.

Urbanized
11-15-2008, 09:24 AM
the boat drivers talk too much, particularly to non-passengers.

There have been nights I wanted to find the owner and tell him that by and large, if those of us who choose to stroll wanted to visit with the boat ops, we probably would have gotten on the danged boat.
Kevin, I have heard your complaint before, but in this case, it is entirely subjective. I have just as many times received complaints from people who say the boat drivers don't talk ENOUGH. I also hear complaints that the tour is too loud, and complaints from people who claim they can barely hear. On the same boat.

In my observation, locals tend to prefer a quieter tour, sometimes even asking for no tour at all. They tend to be very disinterested with local history, with MAPS and the like. Visitors, on the other hand, eagerly soak up as much information as can be offered in a 40 minute tour, providing it is done well. It is an art to balance the needs of both. At the end of the day, though, we carry a higher percentage of visitors than locals, and many of the locals have visitors with them, so talky will always win out. I would MUCH rather get a complaint that guides were talking too much than one about a disinterested driver who didn't talk at all. Believe me, that has happened, and doing this is a really good way to not work for Water Taxi.

As for your observation that shouting to people walking down the canal is often unwelcome; I agree. I have seen that happen myself and cringed (and corrected the guide). It's not something we encourage, though we do encourage them to interact with non-passengers when they are not in the act of driving the boat ("How are you... ....can I help you find anything?"). I also think there are times when driver/stroller interaction can be pleasant, and polite, and welcome. Especially when the stroller is someone who just got off their boat. Those again are subjective, and judgement calls.

Urbanized
11-15-2008, 09:36 AM
Again, this thread has gotten off topic, which I think is a disservice to the Academy of Music. I think I have demonstrated that I am willing to discuss the boat operation with anyone who cares to do so, but would ask you to PM me, call my office at 234-8263, or e-mail me (I won't serve my addy up for smam scrapers to find, but you can visit the contact page of the bricktownwatertaxi.com website). And again, blanket "I hate it when boat drivers do this..." statements aren't very helpful. Information from specific tours, with a driver's name attached, IS very helpful. If the posters on here want to ride the boats with an eye to tour accuracy and the like, and then report back to me like another type of mystery shopper, I welcome it. I rarely turn down free help.

Chad

Urbanized
11-15-2008, 03:07 PM
Wow. I got my own thread. I'm not sure whether to feel honored, or frightened!

As long as we're at it, I also am the managing partner of Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (http://www.reddirtemporium.com), on the canal. Complaints (hopefully there are few), attaboys, or helpful hints on product selection are always welcome!

kevinpate
11-15-2008, 06:14 PM
Urbanized, since this is peeled off to its own now, I don't have any issues regarding guides/drivers talking to the boat passengers. that is after all their job. Nor with saying hiyas, glad to see yas when they are moored.

My grumble, which I concede wasn't stated with specificity, is when I'm strolling with my beloved, enjoying a conversation and it's intruded upon because the driver/guide is wanting to know are we married or are we on a date. I've even had more than one decide that "yes" was not an acceptable answer, despite being accurate in all respects, and try to press on, bringing us into the tour. He has his audience, and if we're strolling, we're not part of it.

I don't know if you employ female guides, but if so, I've never had that happen with a female driver/guide.

Absolutely they should talk up the boat folk, and tip a hat and a smile and a friendly word to the non-boat folk at appropriate times, and many do exactly that or did when I was walking the canal a lot. After all, that's just good service and they may become customers in another 20 minutes or on another day.

But please encourage them to not give shout outs to people who are minding their own business and enjoying their own company. After all, I suspect any driver/guide would go a bit batty if I were to suddenly intrude into the tour spiel from the sidewalk and insist on being heard.

Urbanized
11-16-2008, 12:37 PM
I agree with you.

Unfortunately, the last thing you mentioned happens to every driver, at least once or twice a day. People screaming from the side, hanging over bridges screaming, and worse. Also demanding directions, etc., while a driver is in mid-spiel. It's especially fun (not) on weekend evenings, after the public gets a little liquored up.

I'm just sharing; I don't expect for anyone to do anything about the stuff in that last paragraph. I'm just getting into the spirit of the "get stuff off your chest" vibe we have going here. :D

jsibelius
11-16-2008, 07:15 PM
Wow. I got my own thread. I'm not sure whether to feel honored, or frightened!

As long as we're at it, I also am the managing partner of Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (http://www.reddirtemporium.com), on the canal. Complaints (hopefully there are few), attaboys, or helpful hints on product selection are always welcome!

Have you thought of carrying the 8 map set of Route 66? (If you don't already?) I keep thinking of buying it, but I think I'd like to look at it first to see how useful it would be. I have been in your store, though, and really like the "stuff" you carry in there. It would make good Christmas novelties this year.


I agree with you.

Unfortunately, the last thing you mentioned happens to every driver, at least once or twice a day. People screaming from the side, hanging over bridges screaming, and worse. Also demanding directions, etc., while a driver is in mid-spiel. It's especially fun (not) on weekend evenings, after the public gets a little liquored up.

I'm just sharing; I don't expect for anyone to do anything about the stuff in that last paragraph. I'm just getting into the spirit of the "get stuff off your chest" vibe we have going here. :D

So getting into that spirit - I hadn't thought of that, but yes drunk people would do that, wouldn't they? In fact, non-drunk people would do that too, I'm sure.

Your Cheesehead guide does a pretty good job. He balances the "wave at Chelinos" (really very little of that and more of the "duck your head under this bridge" stuff) with the information about the murals on the buildings, so I was fairly happy with the tour we got. I don't remember his name, but I'm sure the Cheesehead reference should be a good enough clue. How many rabid Green Bay fans do you have doing tours?

Now I just need to talk to the Carriage Tour people about giving actual tours instead of just "rides." Or maybe they were supposed to and we just got the silent treatment.

Urbanized
11-16-2008, 07:53 PM
Have you thought of carrying the 8 map set of Route 66? (If you don't already?) I keep thinking of buying it, but I think I'd like to look at it first to see how useful it would be. I have been in your store, though, and really like the "stuff" you carry in there. It would make good Christmas novelties this year.
I don't think I've seen that one, but would love to. Do you have a link by any chance? And thanks for the kind words about product selection. I think it's far better than it was last fall when Doug Loudenback visited and started a nice thread on here about it.

Your Cheesehead guide does a pretty good job. He balances the "wave at Chelinos" (really very little of that and more of the "duck your head under this bridge" stuff) with the information about the murals on the buildings, so I was fairly happy with the tour we got. I don't remember his name, but I'm sure the Cheesehead reference should be a good enough clue. How many rabid Green Bay fans do you have doing tours?
Glad you had a good time.

Now I just need to talk to the Carriage Tour people about giving actual tours instead of just "rides." Or maybe they were supposed to and we just got the silent treatment.
I wish I could help more on that one. There are actually several companies that do carriage rides, so I can't be sure of which one it was that you need to get in touch with. Each company has assigned boarding areas, though. So you might check the sign in the location from which you departed and call the number on that sign for feedback. Also you could probably call the Bricktown Association, describe the location, and find out who it was.

jsibelius
11-16-2008, 07:59 PM
I don't think I've seen that one, but would love to. Do you have a link by any chance?

Glad you had a good time.

I wish I could help more on that one. There are actually several companies that do carriage rides, so I can't be sure of which one it was that you need to get in touch with. Each company has assigned boarding areas, though. So you might check the sign in the location from which you departed and call the number on that sign for feedback. Also you could probably call the Bricktown Association, describe the location, and find out who it was.

Here's the link to the maps: Amazon.com: Here It Is! The Route 66 Map Series: Jerry McClanahan, Jim Ross: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Here-Route-Map-Jerry-McClanahan/dp/0967748119)

I didn't know there were several companies. Hmmm... I do know where we started from, so I can easily find out who to call. I just have to find the time to do so. But maybe finding a good tour is a matter of finding the right company. So maybe calling the Bricktown Association would be the right move. Thanks for the idea.

The hubby and I live here, but we love doing the touristy things occasionally, so the more information someone tells us, the better we like it.

Urbanized
11-16-2008, 08:25 PM
Thanks for the map link. It looks very interesting. Most of my books and such are consigned to me by Full Circle Bookstore. I could go direct on everything (like I do most of the rest of my inventory), and in fact would profit more long-term by doing so, but I like the relationship with Full Circle. Promoting myself as a Bricktown extension of their Oklahoma book section hopefully communicates something special to locals, who Bricktown merchants need to work extra hard to reach out to. I'll contact Full Circle to see if that's something they already stock, and request it if so. Otherwise I will look at purchasing it wholesale.

In the meantime, if you're anxious to look at a copy, you might try Full Circle yourself. Due to the local-ish nature, they're much more likely to stock the maps than anyone else in town. If you've never been there you should go. Not to take anything away from the large chains, but that store is very special. Starting and owning my own store for a while has made me appreciate what Mr. Tolbert has created inside 50 Penn.

Also, congrats on not being afraid of or above being a tourist at home. Click on the Frontier Country link in my signature. You'll find enough to do in central Oklahoma to keep you busy for quite a while.

jsibelius
11-17-2008, 08:17 AM
Thanks for the map link. It looks very interesting. Most of my books and such are consigned to me by Full Circle Bookstore. I could go direct on everything (like I do most of the rest of my inventory), and in fact would profit more long-term by doing so, but I like the relationship with Full Circle. Promoting myself as a Bricktown extension of their Oklahoma book section hopefully communicates something special to locals, who Bricktown merchants need to work extra hard to reach out to. I'll contact Full Circle to see if that's something they already stock, and request it if so. Otherwise I will look at purchasing it wholesale.

In the meantime, if you're anxious to look at a copy, you might try Full Circle yourself. Due to the local-ish nature, they're much more likely to stock the maps than anyone else in town. If you've never been there you should go. Not to take anything away from the large chains, but that store is very special. Starting and owning my own store for a while has made me appreciate what Mr. Tolbert has created inside 50 Penn.

Also, congrats on not being afraid of or above being a tourist at home. Click on the Frontier Country link in my signature. You'll find enough to do in central Oklahoma to keep you busy for quite a while.

Now that I think of it, I did see the Full Circle sign in your store. I really like Full Circle. My employer has a bit of an agreement with them as well, so I make an annual shopping trip to Full Circle each February. I don't remember ever seeing the Route 66 map set, but given that it's not our target demographic here, I've not really looked for it there. Given my experience with them, I'll bet they'd get it if you asked.

Thanks for the Frontier Country suggestion. Touring is exactly the kind of thing we tend to do on birthdays and anniversaries for fun. We haven't lived here forever and still don't know a lot about the area. The more there is to do, the better is for us.

metro
11-17-2008, 08:24 AM
On the two occasions I rode recently the guides didn't even give a lot of info. The tour was kind of like... "There is Chelinos a great Mexican Restaurant- HI CHELINOS!!" (everyone waived to the people eating at chelinos on the upper patio) "...I have almost lost my head a time or two on this low bridge... There you see Zio's a great italian restaurant...." "....Hi kids..." (everyone waived to the family walking by.) "Is it anyone's Birthday or Anniversery on board? ... No? Well mine is in a few months lets all sing Happy birthday to me..." (boat sings Happy birthday to the guide) Then more waiving at people and more pointing out the obvious, like the movie theater, then talking about the latest hit movie, etc...

This is all paraphrased obviously but not really exaggerated.


ROFL, that is too funny!

Urbanized
11-17-2008, 11:39 PM
Strangely, I don't find that to be one bit funny.

John
11-18-2008, 12:53 AM
Strangely, I don't find that to be one bit funny.

At least not funny enough to be rolling on the floor. :dizzy:

Karried
11-18-2008, 07:36 AM
I thought the boat tours were fine. We had fun and had quite a few good laughs. It's been a while but our guide was very informative and interesting.

I think the boat operators might adjust to those on the boat. If there are a lot of kids, the kids probably got a big kick out of waving and singing.

It's a boat ride. If you want a true history lesson, go to the library or museum.

metro
11-18-2008, 07:58 AM
At least not funny enough to be rolling on the floor. :dizzy:

You would if you have heard some of the goofy boat guides like the one SWOKC mentioned.

Urbanized
11-19-2008, 09:13 AM
I thought the boat tours were fine. We had fun and had quite a few good laughs. It's been a while but our guide was very informative and interesting.

I think the boat operators might adjust to those on the boat. If there are a lot of kids, the kids probably got a big kick out of waving and singing.

It's a boat ride. If you want a true history lesson, go to the library or museum.
Well, I appreciate that perspective. And you're right; sometimes you have to tailor a tour to the passengers on a particular boat. Kids hate the history lesson. Little old ladies LOVE it. Visitors love it.

Finding the right balance, again, is an art form. It takes experience, and by default, many guides do not HAVE experience. As a seasonal company, about 50% of the guides each year have only been there for a few weeks, especially in the spring. Unfortunately that means some people will take a boat ride with someone who has yet to master the art form of tailoring a tour to the audience. Just like they will sometimes get a guide who has yet to master making the ballpark turn (the trickiest, and also the most visible, section of the canal) smoothly.

But we don't look at it as "just a boat ride." We are often the first Oklahoma City people with whom visitors make contact, and the first imression is critical. We aspire to be something else. Usually we succeed, but like anyplace, there are always challenges.

warreng88
11-19-2008, 10:42 AM
I had a couple of friends come into town from Tulsa several months ago. We ate at Coach's, walked along the canal. Then I brought up the idea of the canal ride. So we went to buy our tickets and they said they did not take debit/credit cards and that we would have to go to the Red Dirt Emporium. Probably one of the best ideas ever. We went down to get our tickets and spent about 30-45 minutes looking at different things (bought a "Don't hate the 918" for my brother that lives in NYC) and really enjoyed the older photos of OKC.

We went on the boat ride and had absolutely no complaints about the tour guide at all. He was great. He was funny, but not a stand up comedian, informative, but not "stalker-ish." The only complaint we had was very close proximity that we had sitting across from other people with knees rubbing, etc. My friend and his wife are of a "little larger stature." I say all that knowing there really is not a better way to lay out the boat due to size restrictions. Also, I love the new covers for the boats. We were there in July and that really cut down on the heat.

TaoMaas
11-19-2008, 11:11 AM
...the passage and successful implementation of MAPS made it possible for the city to get the public behind MAPS for Kids. That never would have happened if MAPS had not been pulled off successfully.

I don't know about other folks, but this was certainly true for me and my circle of friends. We all voted in favor of the original MAPS plan, but had told ourselves, "If they screw this up, I'll be damned if I ever vote for something like this again." But when the new ballpark got finished and I had a look around, I said, "Sweet! If they can do half this good on the rest of the plans, this will really be something." It was seeing how well the initial projects were handled that made me enthusiastically vote in favor of MAPS for Kids.

shane453
11-24-2008, 12:09 PM
More about the challenge in having people get things right, if anyone's interested:

One wrinkle is that each year you have a load of new people who are further removed from MAPS and the changes it has made to our city. By that I specifically mean that a number of my employees are often college students, due to the seasonality of the job.

Think about this for a minute: a 20-year-old junior in college was five years old when MAPS passed. They were nine or ten when the ballpark opened. They have a very limited frame of reference.



Hey, that's me! Haha thanks for the shoutout "urbanized" (this is shane your employee)

But I do take my information really seriously and love spreading the good news about OKC to all the tourists that ride the boats. I don't like seeing that some of the drivers aren't being proper ambassadors of the city. It's so important that we give them great service and a great time because as ambassadors we are the people who give them a big impression of Oklahoma City, so if they have a bad time they go home saying "OKC sucked don't ever go" and if they have a good time they say "OKC was great you should check it out someday."

Urbanized
11-24-2008, 03:28 PM
Shane's not kidding folks. He takes his role very seriously and his mystery shopper evaluations, customer feedback and the like reflect as much. I've had Chamber/CVB officials and others on his boat, and they raved about his tour. He picked up the tourgiving aspect of things very quickly and very studiously, and I think will agree that it paid off well for him this season.

We were lucky in that we found someone in him who already had those enthusiasms. In other staff it sometimes has to be cultivated. Fortunately, a good number of the people who look to do this job are doing it in part because they are caught up in the excitement and want to sing the praises of OKC. They are ALWAYS easier to train than the people who are just looking for a J-O-B.

Now if I can just get Shane to quit college and come work here full time...

Urbanized
11-24-2008, 03:30 PM
That is TOTALLY a joke, by the way.

okclee
11-24-2008, 03:34 PM
I think it is time for Shane to ask for a pay raise.

kevinpate
11-24-2008, 09:20 PM
and a nifty new hat too

okcpulse
11-24-2008, 09:47 PM
So, route66gal, are you saying that MAPS for Kids was just a simple $700 million check we just wrote to the school district? Hmmm? All that 'money' being poured into Bricktown?

Let's break down the numbers, shall we. There were two projects built in Bricktown out of the initial MAPS project. The canal and the baseball stadium. Grand total of those two projects? Less than $60 million total. That kills part of your argument.

Second, the original MAPS project, passed in 1993, was proposed during the failed $89 million bond issue that created a rift between Oklahoma City residents and Oklahoma City Public Schools. It took the original MAPS project's success to recreate the trust that vaporized between the city and her citizens regarding the OKCPS school board. When the MAPS tax was faithfully expired in 1999, and all MAPS projects well on track, MAPS for Kids was proposed, and passed. That was $750 million, more than twice what was spent downtown, the fairgrounds and Bricktown.

OKCPS is still a work in progress, and we have come a long way since the 1990s when it comes to the condition of Oklahoma City's schools.

I do agree there is more than can and should be done, but criminalizing the city for wanting to take care of all aspects of the city is a pigeon-hole. People aren't going to want to live in a city with zero nightlife and crappy streets with good schools.

My point is, the city HAD TO START SOMEWHERE. Please, learn your history before making outlandish accusations.

southernskye
11-24-2008, 10:07 PM
I do agree there is more than can and should be done, but criminalizing the city for wanting to take care of all aspects of the city is a pigeon-hole. People aren't going to want to live in a city with zero nightlife and crappy streets with good schools.

My point is, the city HAD TO START SOMEWHERE. Please, learn your history before making outlandish accusations.


The schools and especially the streets are still crappy.

Urbanized
11-25-2008, 09:06 AM
and a nifty new hat too
We changed logos and I just got the new hats in, so Shane will DEFINITELY get a new hat next year.

Urbanized
11-25-2008, 09:12 AM
And -- this is TOTALLY self-serving -- if you want to pick up one with the original logo before they're gone, click here (http://www.reddirtemporium.com/hats.html#watertaxicap). ;)

metro
11-25-2008, 10:22 AM
Can you post the new logo? It'd be cool if you got some cool uniforms and such. I'm thinking kind of like the gondola boat riders in Vegas how they dress like a Venetian would. Black pants, Black and White striped shirt with a red scarf/tie. Maybe in our case since we have yellow water taxis and they drive more like a car, you could do a yellow/black checkered taxi look for uniforms.

Urbanized
11-25-2008, 10:50 AM
Heh. Sorry, the uniforms will be much as they are now, just with the new logo. It's a holdover from our Fort Lauderdale operation. Surprisingly, or perhaps unsurprisingly, the checkerboard thing is a little overdone in the water taxi industry. We did design the new logo in part to mimic a taxi badge, like you would see inside a cab in a city that requires them.

A small version of the logo, which says "Oklahoma City" and "Bricktown" down below:

http://www.reddirtemporium.com/images/watertaxi.jpg

shane453
11-25-2008, 11:16 AM
No thank you to the Venetian uniform... I like the new badges

Urbanized
11-25-2008, 11:22 AM
See why I like him so much?

jbrown84
11-25-2008, 03:57 PM
No thank you to the Venetian uniform... I like the new badges

Haha. I agree, even though I don't have to wear them.

I actually applied for that job last summer and never heard a peep back.

shane453
11-25-2008, 08:37 PM
^^ It's really a blast, I recommend it

kevinpate
11-25-2008, 08:46 PM
.oO(badges?! badges?! They don't need no stinkin' badges, but hey, those are nice!)Oo.