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metro
11-05-2008, 07:48 AM
Sad we can't pay our Mayor and Council Members more. I thought we were major league?


City of Oklahoma City ballot results
Comments 0Published: November 5, 2008
City of Oklahoma City (279/279 precincts reporting)

Charter amendments

Proposition 1 Authorizes city council vacancies to be filled by temporary appointment to keep a ward from going without representation for more than 30 days, with a special or general election to follow. Yes, 161,814 (81.6 %); No, 36,312 (18.4 %).

Proposition 2 Lowers the minimum age to run for mayor from 25 to 21, and requires city council candidates to live in the ward they seek to represent for at least six months. Yes, 103,890 (51.2 %); No, 98,730 (48.8 %).

Proposition 3 Provides that the office of vice mayor be rotated among city council members for six-month terms, based on seniority or alphabetical order. Yes, 131,665 (66.7 %); No, 65,679 (33.3 %).

Proposition 4 Raises the mayor's salary from $24,000 to $48,000 annually, and raises city council members' salary from $12,000 to $24,000 annually, effective with the next terms of office. Yes, 96,311(47.6 %); No, 105,840 (52.4 %).

Proposition 5 Replaces current city charter language regarding city employees' conflicts of interest regarding contracts to language that mirrors state law. Yes, 150,714 (76.5 %); No, 46,668 (23.5 %).

CCOKC
11-05-2008, 08:00 AM
Thanks for posting that. I had not heard the results. Interesting about the mayor and council raises.

OKCTalker
11-05-2008, 08:10 AM
Prop 4 (Mayor & Council Raises) - IMO it was the doubling of the salaries, not that they'd be paid $48k & $24k respectively.

metro
11-05-2008, 08:17 AM
Yeah but still, $48K for a F/T Mayor of a "Major League City." Even if you don't believe we're "major league", we're still a large metro of about 1.2 million and it is and should be a f/t job.

sgray
11-05-2008, 08:18 AM
If I were making what I used to get paid before the cutbacks and layoffs, perhaps I could afford to pay more for their salaries...

I think the vote speaks for itself.

Too many people struggling right now to put food on the table.


FYI- I know tons of people locally working hard, full-time jobs that used to make that and are now barely breaking $12k.

metro
11-05-2008, 08:39 AM
But do you think we can lead our city the best way possible by paying city councilmen/women $12K a year? What type of candidate pool does this allow us to choose from based upon the salary? Yes some of them have a p/t job elsewhere, but some do not. What message does this send to the rest of the US and World that we're trying to communicate that we're "big league"? I mean we're talking about city council, not john doe working at taco mayo for minimum wage. We're talking about the people that lead tens or hundreds of thousands in their respective district.

sgray
11-05-2008, 08:46 AM
If a guy doesn't have $10 in his pocket to put in his gas tank, he cant drive anywhere. A guy has to take care of his own family first.

If we have no money to pay the mayor more, we have no money.

The issue of treating them better is not the holdup. I agree with you on taking the burden off their shoulders of having to work a second job, but metro, a LOT of us are working 2 jobs right now and are still struggling.

When times are better for us as a whole, I can see this issue making headway.

Chynna802
11-05-2008, 08:46 AM
But do you think we can lead our city the best way possible by paying city councilmen/women $12K a year? What type of candidate pool does this allow us to choose from based upon the salary? Yes some of them have a p/t job elsewhere, but some do not. What message does this send to the rest of the US and World that we're trying to communicate that we're "big league"? I mean we're talking about city council, not john doe working at taco mayo for minimum wage. We're talking about the people that lead tens or hundreds of thousands in their respective district.

I agree. I voted in favor of it.

Tex
11-05-2008, 09:11 AM
I was on the fence about prop 4 and I wish I was more informed about similar sized cities mayors' salaries. Ultimately I voted against this issue because I thought a 100% pay raise was too much and these are positions of public service. The mayor and council members don't run for office for the pay. People that run for public office have a genuine goal of serving their constituents. Even though OKC pays a small salary to its mayor and council members I don't believe this will result in a subpar candidate pool in the future.

Tex
11-05-2008, 09:18 AM
Yeah but still, $48K for a F/T Mayor of a "Major League City." Even if you don't believe we're "major league", we're still a large metro of about 1.2 million and it is and should be a f/t job.

The mayor of OKC doesn't serve the metro, he serves the people of OKC, population 547,274.

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2007 Population Estimates

hoya
11-05-2008, 09:20 AM
If a guy doesn't have $10 in his pocket to put in his gas tank, he cant drive anywhere. A guy has to take care of his own family first.

If we have no money to pay the mayor more, we have no money.

The issue of treating them better is not the holdup. I agree with you on taking the burden off their shoulders of having to work a second job, but metro, a LOT of us are working 2 jobs right now and are still struggling.

When times are better for us as a whole, I can see this issue making headway.

That's about the biggest load of crap I've seen in years.

The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing. To raise the salary of the mayor from $24,000 to $48,000 is nothing. In a city of over half a million people, we're looking at less than five cents per person. Yeah, I'm sure you can't afford that extra five cents. Hell, maybe you have a wife and eight kids. That's one less Dr Pepper each year. The horror!

This crap about "well, they're public servants, so they should do all this crap for whatever pittance we want to pay them" is ridiculous. It ensures that only the very wealthy can afford to run for office, those people who don't need it. I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.

venture
11-05-2008, 09:20 AM
Does OKC still use a City Manager/Weak Mayor form of government? I could see paying the mayor more if it had the Strong Mayor form of government to where the mayor is actually involved and working nonstop. In a City Manager form, I believe the manager is the technical CEO of the city and doing most of the work while the mayor does do a lot of work - but not a lot of day to day stuff.

hoya
11-05-2008, 09:20 AM
The mayor of OKC doesn't serve the metro, he serves the people of OKC, population 547,274.

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 2007 Population Estimates

Yeah, and even excluding the rest of the metro, that's about 4 cents per person. You're a big spender there, Tex.

southernskye
11-05-2008, 09:31 AM
Does OKC still use a City Manager/Weak Mayor form of government? I could see paying the mayor more if it had the Strong Mayor form of government to where the mayor is actually involved and working nonstop. In a City Manager form, I believe the manager is the technical CEO of the city and doing most of the work while the mayor does do a lot of work - but not a lot of day to day stuff.


James D. Couch was appointed City Manager of the City of Oklahoma City on November 9, 2000.

Tex
11-05-2008, 09:31 AM
Yeah, and even excluding the rest of the metro, that's about 4 cents per person. You're a big spender there, Tex.

Well I'm glad you can do math hoyasooner. My point wasn't about the cost per person. I was correcting Metro's argument when he tried connecting the mayor's duties with serving the metro of 1.2 million.

Edit: Thought you all would like to see this... Tabulated Data on City Governments — Infoplease.com (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108630.html)

OKCTalker
11-05-2008, 09:37 AM
Yeah but still, $48K for a F/T Mayor of a "Major League City." Even if you don't believe we're "major league", we're still a large metro of about 1.2 million and it is and should be a f/t job.

Metro - I firmly embrace the philosophy of a citizen-representative who is elected, does his/her best job, and then goes back home. That philosophy has been prostituted in the U.S. Congress and Oklahoma Legislature which led to term limits (which I also philosophically oppose, but there's no other way to get most of these guys to go home).

It isn't the F/T or P/T status of elected leaders that defines whether a city is "major-" or "minor-league." We've been very well led by most of our recent mayors and councilmembers, and the citizens have acknowledged that by passing tax measures that wouldn't have stood a chance prior to the 1990s. And we now have a major league city by almost any definition. For curmudgeons who contest that, I'll absolutely say OKC is the strongest and best that it's ever been, and to that they can't disagree.

OKCTalker
11-05-2008, 09:39 AM
Does OKC still use a City Manager/Weak Mayor form of government? I could see paying the mayor more if it had the Strong Mayor form of government to where the mayor is actually involved and working nonstop. In a City Manager form, I believe the manager is the technical CEO of the city and doing most of the work while the mayor does do a lot of work - but not a lot of day to day stuff.

City Mayor: CEO
City Manager: COO

Chynna802
11-05-2008, 09:51 AM
Not sure what it's worth, but here is a table of the median annual salary for local government positions, for 2006, as provided by the U.S. Department of Labor. Here is the link too. State and Local Government, Excluding Education and Hospitals (http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs042.htm)


Occupation Salary

City manager/Chief administrative officer $92,799
Assistant chief administrative officer 83,155
Engineer 79,648
Chief financial officer 76,101
Fire chief 75,645
Information services director 75,118
Economic development director 73,140
Human resources director 72,527
Public works director 71,360
Human services director 70,958
Chief law enforcement official 69,600
Parks and recreation director 68,284
Health officer 67,275
Purchasing director 63,043
Chief librarian 58,750
Treasurer 54,803
Clerk 45,497
Chief elected official 25,000

sgray
11-05-2008, 10:15 AM
That's about the biggest load of crap I've seen in years.


The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing.


I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.

hoya,

I fully embrace a debate with all opinions on the table, but to call a majority of people's day-to-day life a 'load of crap' shows that you either 1) haven't spent much time outside with working people recently, or 2) you just dont care or dont want to see them

For example, for one of my jobs I work at the airport for an airline. Most of us barely pass $12k a year working our butts off loading/unloading flights. Those jobs paid nearly double that 10 years ago. Then you have folks working at a call center in Moore starting at less than that for some...then you have Wal-Mart, restaurants, etc...just a few areas of the big picture...there are a lot of people at minimum wage. Here, in OKC!


I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.
INTERESTING! I've budgeted my life around close to HALF OF THAT! I own my own house, my own car, etc... I have no wife or kids, so my $ are not stretched like that (yet).

HOYA, it sounds like you are pretty well off and I'm glad that you've been successful. But we can't let our success make us lose sight of where we once were and where people are now.


The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing.
Folks may write what they think and folks may read and believe, but it is what it is. I can cross out the amount on my paystub and write in another amount but for some reason, the extra $ dont show up in my account. Cant understand it.



HOYA, understand me clearly. I WANT to make OKC better. I WANT to pay the mayor and staff whatever they are worth, HOWEVER, where is the vote to pay me what I'm worth and my co-workers what they are worth? Much of us are not getting paid what we are 'worth' right now and we each share in the responsibility of fixing that. When things get better, I'd be glad to look at this again. Right now there are too many uncertain variables.

One more thing...being mayor of a city not only looks good on your resume but is likely to get you a decent paying job both now and in the future, so it's not like the mayor isn't getting other returns on his investment.

OKCMallen
11-05-2008, 10:43 AM
If I were making what I used to get paid before the cutbacks and layoffs, perhaps I could afford to pay more for their salaries...

I think the vote speaks for itself.

Too many people struggling right now to put food on the table.


FYI- I know tons of people locally working hard, full-time jobs that used to make that and are now barely breaking $12k.

They need to get different jobs. Is that even minimum wage?

OKCMallen
11-05-2008, 10:47 AM
That's about the biggest load of crap I've seen in years.

The economy in Oklahoma City is still growing. To raise the salary of the mayor from $24,000 to $48,000 is nothing. In a city of over half a million people, we're looking at less than five cents per person. Yeah, I'm sure you can't afford that extra five cents. Hell, maybe you have a wife and eight kids. That's one less Dr Pepper each year. The horror!

This crap about "well, they're public servants, so they should do all this crap for whatever pittance we want to pay them" is ridiculous. It ensures that only the very wealthy can afford to run for office, those people who don't need it. I couldn't afford to live on $24,000 a year. Neither could any of you. It is patently ridiculous.

You can make 24k/year work. It ain't fun, but you can do it.

Chynna802
11-05-2008, 10:48 AM
They need to get different jobs. Is that even minimum wage?

That's what I was thinking. I am pretty sure that as of July minimum wage is 6.55/hr, which, if working full time, should come out to about $12,500/yr.

Luke
11-05-2008, 10:50 AM
When I taught at a private school, I made much less than $24,000 a year. It's certainly do-able.

sgray
11-05-2008, 11:16 AM
OKCMallen,

With all due respect, almost every industry is outsourcing and cutting costs everywhere. Where to go? I see friends of mine...good people...that are having trouble getting grants to go to local college when I qualified right away back in 1998 when I applied. Personally, I have a pretty good primary gig in engineering...but our company has seen major cutbacks recently. It's pretty much everywhere...but it really hurts bad when you dont make beans to begin with, you know?

The average wages are going down everywhere... Heck, take the following typical wages.

Minimum wage went UP to $6.55/HR on July 24, 2008.

$6.55/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1048/MO $12576/YR GROSS, NOT NET, GROSS!!! Way less than that after taxes. Now that's just after july. It was below that before the raise.

Interesting numbers...
$8/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1280/MO $15360/YR GROSS BEFORE TAXES
$9/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1440/MO $17280/YR GROSS BEFORE TAXES
$10/HR @ 40HR/WK = $1600/MO $19200/YR GROSS BEFORE TAXES

Unless you can get a cozy job that pays well, you are lucky to get to 8 or 9 on this list.

Good points for discussion though.

Chynna802
11-05-2008, 11:42 AM
But should the Mayor be making $24,000 a year? I make more than that and believe I am "worth" it and I believe a Mayor is worth more money than me.

Sgray, if you think you are worth more than what you are getting paid why don't you look elsewhere? There are plenty of good jobs out there that pay more than minimum wage, no degree needed.

hipsterdoofus
11-05-2008, 12:05 PM
I agree that a lot of the problem was that they wanted to double it...if they wanted to change it, I think they should have done it gradually. I also appreciate what was said about how much the City manager does. If anything, maybe he is the one who needs the raise.

sgray
11-05-2008, 12:13 PM
Chynna802,

I can appreciate your view and it should be that simple, but the reality is much different. No offense, but to a lot of people it sounds kind of like a broken record. Where are the jobs that pay more? Not job listings, not potential openings in the future, but actual good-paying 'positions' that are hiring TODAY and not just interviewing only to inform that there is in fact no position in existence.

There was a group interview a few weeks ago for some decent wage positions in freight handling locally and I was one of a lot of people that attended, just to check it out. The pay seemed too good to be true and in fact, the company never hired anyone, removed the job listings and calls to inquire were told "the positions were done away with". Can you believe that they actually pay people good money to interview many people and then do that? So much wasted time and $.

Interestingly enough, I've seen a lot of those in the past 6-12 months and have been involved in some.

The question was, where are the jobs? The simple answer is, with the exception of corporate positions (which are quickly filled by out-of-work candidates that are already qualified), most ground-level jobs are being outsourced to save money. Outsourcing to other companies cuts the liability and expense and the companies do not have to answer directly to the employees any more regarding wages and benefits.

There are LOTS of real job openings, but not at the wages you think.

Think about this--those of you that have satellite tv from a 'major satellite tv company' who outsources to an international call center with an office in moore--those of you that subscribe and are now paying more for your programming than you were ten years ago--your call is now answered by that $7 an hour employee that works not for the satellite provider, but for the outsourcing company, for less $ than the sat tv co would have to pay. Now that is one example of many, but look at the thousands of local folks who work there. That is their job...it's the best they could get into.

I don't mean to sound too negative of the issue--but for those that may not understand or be disappointed in the direction of the vote--those are people's actual votes against it. And I don't think it's 'cause they hate the mayor.

Sorry for the long rant.

sgray
11-05-2008, 12:15 PM
hipsterdoofus,

I agree with your conclusion. It was too much shock at the wrong time. The vote was not that far off and if they were to 'phase it in' so to speak, it may have gained more support--even passed.

You notice that most of the other questions to do with the mayor and staff were supported.

andy157
11-05-2008, 12:27 PM
Does OKC still use a City Manager/Weak Mayor form of government? I could see paying the mayor more if it had the Strong Mayor form of government to where the mayor is actually involved and working nonstop. In a City Manager form, I believe the manager is the technical CEO of the city and doing most of the work while the mayor does do a lot of work - but not a lot of day to day stuff.Exactly. Yes they do. Jim Couch is the current City Manager, his salary before benefits and perks is bumping $200,000. a year.

Chynna802
11-05-2008, 12:36 PM
Where are the jobs that pay more?

Maybe I am just blessed, but I have two of those jobs. I have a high school diploma and no college degree and I make more than minimum wage at both - and I enjoy both jobs. I'm not saying there are lots of high paying positions open for just anybody. I am saying that there are jobs out there that pay more than minimum wage. I guess you just have to be looking in the right place at the right time?

sgray
11-05-2008, 12:48 PM
Well, I have a job that pays more than minimum wage as well. And you are blessed...how many openings are there where you're at right now? If there are any, I'll bet they're gone right away. Many people have jobs that pay more than minimum wage. But even at double minimum wage, you are only at $25k a year, and that's before taxes. One person said that no one could live at $24k a year and that's double what a lot of people make, and a somewhat decent wage.

Getting back to the main point, I'd be willing to look at other options, but not "double or nothing" so quick. A suggestion was a gradual raise and I'd be glad to take a look at it again if presented that way.

Chynna802
11-05-2008, 12:54 PM
Well, I have a job that pays more than minimum wage as well. And you are blessed...how many openings are there right now? Many people have jobs that pay more than minimum wage. But even at double minimum wage, you are only at $25k a year, and that's before taxes. One person said that no one could live at $24k a year and that's double what a lot of people make, and a somewhat decent wage.

Getting back to the main point, I'd be willing to look at other options, but not "double or nothing" so quick. A suggestion was a gradual raise and I'd be glad to take a look at it again if presented that way.

Sorry, I thought you had said you made half of $24000 which would be right around minimum wage....

I think they would have had more success, too, if they would have proposed a gradual raise instead of doubling it, but, nevertheless, I voted for the increase.

jsibelius
11-05-2008, 12:57 PM
That does seem to be the problem with elected officials and pay raises. They forgo them for several years and then when they finally decide to have one, it always seems to be a doubling of the current salary. That goes straight up to the President of the United States. I'd have to think about this, but I might be willing to forgo incremental raises every year too in exchange for a salary doubling every five years or so. Nope...I'm done thinking. Sign me up for that system!

betts
11-05-2008, 12:59 PM
I voted for the increase. When I think of how much work being mayor or a councilperson undoubtedly takes, I'm amazed we've found the public servants we have. But, might it not be nice if someone who's not independently wealthy could take one of those jobs? It might be useful to have different viewpoints. I wonder how much the mayor averages per hour?

sgray
11-05-2008, 01:01 PM
Chynna802,

Yes I said that I am budgeted around that 12k a year base to live off of... I make slightly more and these numbers we are discussing are GROSS, before taxes. That's important because part of that total goes to taxes and not to us. Even with the careful budgeting I've done, I've got burned...mainly from the crazy fluctuation in gas prices this summer till recently. And I'm not partying yet with the current prices...glad to see them, but not celebrating yet.

hoya
11-05-2008, 03:39 PM
hoya,

I fully embrace a debate with all opinions on the table, but to call a majority of people's day-to-day life a 'load of crap' shows that you either 1) haven't spent much time outside with working people recently, or 2) you just dont care or dont want to see them

For example, for one of my jobs I work at the airport for an airline. Most of us barely pass $12k a year working our butts off loading/unloading flights. Those jobs paid nearly double that 10 years ago. Then you have folks working at a call center in Moore starting at less than that for some...then you have Wal-Mart, restaurants, etc...just a few areas of the big picture...there are a lot of people at minimum wage. Here, in OKC!


INTERESTING! I've budgeted my life around close to HALF OF THAT! I own my own house, my own car, etc... I have no wife or kids, so my $ are not stretched like that (yet).

HOYA, it sounds like you are pretty well off and I'm glad that you've been successful. But we can't let our success make us lose sight of where we once were and where people are now.


Folks may write what they think and folks may read and believe, but it is what it is. I can cross out the amount on my paystub and write in another amount but for some reason, the extra $ dont show up in my account. Cant understand it.



HOYA, understand me clearly. I WANT to make OKC better. I WANT to pay the mayor and staff whatever they are worth, HOWEVER, where is the vote to pay me what I'm worth and my co-workers what they are worth? Much of us are not getting paid what we are 'worth' right now and we each share in the responsibility of fixing that. When things get better, I'd be glad to look at this again. Right now there are too many uncertain variables.

One more thing...being mayor of a city not only looks good on your resume but is likely to get you a decent paying job both now and in the future, so it's not like the mayor isn't getting other returns on his investment.

No man, I think it's a load of crap that we think it's okay to pay our mayor that little. I'm a public defender and I make 41K a year. I pay about $7000 a year in student loan payments and I've got credit card bills from law school coming out my ears. I've tried living on less than I make now, and it's impossible given my current level of debt. I simply found my credit card bills rising as I had to start charging car payments and groceries. Hell, when I got out of law school, before I found a job, I was working at a call center for $8 an hour. But it's a good thing I found a job, because that simply wasn't sustainable.

$24,000 a year is poor, even in this state with our low cost of living. While I appreciate that we have people in this city who can and do make due with that amount of money, they generally either aren't college educated individuals or they are looking for better employment. I've got a lot of friends who make that level of income, working at Wal Mart, Pizza Hut, etc. They aren't mayor of a major metropolitan area.

There is an attitude amongst some people, who don't want to see us invest any money into government. I see a reflection of that in the people who vote down a pay raise for our mayor. I thought most of us had realized by now that you have to spend money to make money. To me, this is like voting against MAPS. "We can't afford to pay our mayor any more than he makes now." He makes less money than the guy who picks up my garbage.

route66gal
11-05-2008, 03:48 PM
I voted no on their salary. They can put more money into the Oklahoma City School's disability programs and then I might think some people in Government deserve a raise.

sgray
11-05-2008, 03:56 PM
hoyasooner,

You will notice in my post that I specifically said that I want to see the mayor paid fairly. I never said I did not. I also said that when a guy's pockets are empty, they are empty.

I support a look into the mayor and staff's pay and a possible raise. But to put a double or nothing vote on the ballot so quickly is asking for defeat.

It appears that others felt the same way per the vote.

sgray
11-05-2008, 04:00 PM
This is interesting data...although I will try to look for more a more recent version, unless someone else has it.

----

The 1999 median income for a household in the city was $34,947, and the median income for a family was $42,689.

Among full time employed persons, males had median 1999 earnings of $31,589 compared to $24,420 for females.

The per capita income for the city was $19,098. 16.0% of the population and 12.4% of families were below the poverty line.

Out of the total population, 23.0% of those under the age of 18 and 9.2% of those 65 and older were living below the poverty line.

andy157
11-05-2008, 04:11 PM
Our Mayor makes less money than the guy who picks up my trash? Now thats funny. I wonder how many of those trash folks drive B.M.W.s? A law degree from Georgetown is only worth 41K? I would have thought it to be worth at least six figures.

hoya
11-05-2008, 06:38 PM
Our Mayor makes less money than the guy who picks up my trash? Now thats funny. I wonder how many of those trash folks drive B.M.W.s? A law degree from Georgetown is only worth 41K? I would have thought it to be worth at least six figures.

It will be. :) I don't intend to do public service work forever.

The reason Cornett has the money he does has nothing to do with his salary. He's just got money. He doesn't *need* the higher salary, in that he's not hurting for cash. But a low salary like that just guarantees that the only people who can afford to run are those that already have gobs of money.

I don't have a family to support either, but I couldn't afford to be mayor. Plus, we don't want to put elected officials in the position where they are hurting financially -- that's a recipe for kickbacks.

sgray
11-05-2008, 06:44 PM
now hoya, dont go screwing up their perfectly architected plan! :boxing2:
Do you think that maybe they set the salary so low so that only the already wealthy with special agendas could run??? Muah ha ha ha...

:gossip: :gossip: :gossip: :gossip:

hipsterdoofus
11-05-2008, 08:39 PM
The thing is, this is billed as a way of letting "average people" run and become mayor, is it not? People who don't have other sources of income; however, I think after this last presidential compaign we can see that even if an average guy can make it on the Mayors salary, he'd have a hard time getting there as far as money for campaigning.

hoya
11-05-2008, 09:36 PM
The thing is, this is billed as a way of letting "average people" run and become mayor, is it not? People who don't have other sources of income; however, I think after this last presidential compaign we can see that even if an average guy can make it on the Mayors salary, he'd have a hard time getting there as far as money for campaigning.

I'm not really worried about the average guy running. Honestly, Joe Six Pack will never get elected. But I am worried about setting the salary too low. I know a few people in the Oklahoma House of Representatives, and not all of them are wealthy. Several simply went door to door and campaigned their butts off. And the only way they can afford to stay in their seats is because their wives work and earn decent salaries.

Just remember that the lower you set the salary, the more people you exclude from running. Local Oklahoma elections aren't quite as well funded as the Presidential election. :)

OKCTalker
11-05-2008, 09:41 PM
You guys keep missing the major points here: 1) OKC has a city manager who runs things and he is full-time, hired employee; 2) the mayor is more of an administrative official, and he is a part-time elected politician; 3) what the mayor makes on the side (or what he drives or where he lives or how big his house is or what clothes he wears or where he went to school or who cuts his hair or how much he spends on mojitos or how much he pays his yard guy or...) doesn't make any difference in what we pay - and shouldn't.

Chynna802
11-05-2008, 10:24 PM
You guys keep missing the major points here: 1) OKC has a city manager who runs things and he is full-time, hired employee; 2) the mayor is more of an administrative official, and he is a part-time elected politician; 3) what the mayor makes on the side (or what he drives or where he lives or how big his house is or what clothes he wears or where he went to school or who cuts his hair or how much he spends on mojitos or how much he pays his yard guy or...) doesn't make any difference in what we pay - and shouldn't.

I could be wrong, and might be, but I thought the Mayor was a step higher than the City Manager. After all, the City Manager is appointed by the Mayor. You also say that the Mayor is more of an administrative official, but on the City Manager's website it states that he, the City Manager, is the chief administrative officer...

I completely agree with your number 3....

It's not whether the individual can live on a certain amount. Let's say you are making well over $24,000. Would it be okay if your salary was cut to $24,000 just because it was do-able to live off of? A salary is based on your job performance, education, experience, job location, job category - it's based on a number of different things. Your need does not predict your salary. This isn't financial aid. You have to be worth what you are being paid. I'm probably getting off track here, but if everyone made $24,000 no matter what their job just because anyone can live on that, wouldn't we be getting into communism? Anyway, whether the Mayor needs a raise or not isn't the point, IMO. Does the job he performs warrant more than his current $24,000/yr?

I do realize that there are lots of people who aren't paid what they are worth. Luke mentioned being a teacher for much less than $24,000 - I would have voted for a teacher pay increase too! Teacher's are worth more than that. I am just trying to say that it doesn't matter whether or not Mayor Cornett needs more than $24,000, but do the responsibilities of his job and his performance in his position as Mayor make him worth more.

andy157
11-05-2008, 10:31 PM
You guys keep missing the major points here: 1) OKC has a city manager who runs things and he is full-time, hired employee; 2) the mayor is more of an administrative official, and he is a part-time elected politician; 3) what the mayor makes on the side (or what he drives or where he lives or how big his house is or what clothes he wears or where he went to school or who cuts his hair or how much he spends on mojitos or how much he pays his yard guy or...) doesn't make any difference in what we pay - and shouldn't.I agree. Not only do we have a City Manager, we also have 3 Assistant City Managers, and 4 Administrative Assistants, one for each of them. The Mayor beside his Admin. Sect. also has a Assistant to the Mayor, so he's not to burdened down or overloaded with any of the minor details. No doubt he attends lots of meetings with lots of powerful people. The hardest part of his job aside from being re-elected, and that depends his/her desire to do so, is having to eat rubber chicken dinners 3 to 5 times a week. Yet in all fairness he does have to travel around the country quite a bit on official City business. Those trips I'm sure can get old over time. But wishing to raise the Mayors salary under the guise of giving your everyday, ordinary, working-class Joe Blow Citizen a chance to become the Mayor of OKC is laughable.

hipsterdoofus
11-06-2008, 09:25 AM
I wonder what other perks go along with being mayor that don't get mentioned. I mean I know its not all fun and games, but some of it is...I agree that the City Manager is more of the one running things...The mayor does the publicity thing it appears...

metro
11-06-2008, 09:35 AM
Yes, but he still is pretty much Mayor full time, perception is reality. Most people do not know we have a weak mayor form of government. He is our Chief PR Officer if you will. Do we want our garbage men (very valued) still making more than our Mayor who is our local, national and international figurehead of luring business (NBA anyone?) to our city.

Chynna802
11-06-2008, 09:52 AM
Since we keep comparing the Mayor's salary to a garbage man's salary, I wanted to find out what a garbage man actually makes. I didn't find much, but it looks like the U.S. average is around $43,000.

This was found on SimplyHired.com


Average Garbage Collector Salaries
The average salary for garbage collector jobs is $43,000. Average garbage collector salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits.

sgray
11-06-2008, 10:34 AM
Let's bargain...start out by giving the guy a book of coupons for a free chicken nugget happy meal each day.

hipsterdoofus
11-06-2008, 11:00 AM
My question is...does he pay for all the NBA games and other such events he goes to? I'd consider those perks and worth a lot.

sgray
11-06-2008, 11:12 AM
I think that vote sent a clear message to them...I think we'll likely see an alternate proposal from them at the next vote. hipster, we also need to see a more complete picture of all the perks like you said. It's kind of like my side airline job. It pays nothing, but I can fly anywhere anytime for free, so that makes up for a lot for someone that wants/needs to fly.

andy157
11-06-2008, 12:58 PM
Yes, but he still is pretty much Mayor full time, perception is reality. Most people do not know we have a weak mayor form of government. He is our Chief PR Officer if you will. Do we want our garbage men (very valued) still making more than our Mayor who is our local, national and international figurehead of luring business (NBA anyone?) to our city.Our current system has worked fine for many years. Now, if that is no longer the case then we may need to look at changing our form of Government over to a strong Mayor form. Like Tulsa has. The point remains, you can pay someone $500,000. a year to be the Mayor, but who ever that someone is you can bet they will come from a small group of people who live north of the Oklahoma river. Thats reality.

andy157
11-06-2008, 01:04 PM
My question is...does he pay for all the NBA games and other such events he goes to? I'd consider those perks and worth a lot.No he does not. The taxpayers pay for those. Including the luxury suite at the Ford Center.

andy157
11-06-2008, 01:06 PM
I think that vote sent a clear message to them...I think we'll likely see an alternate proposal from them at the next vote. hipster, we also need to see a more complete picture of all the perks like you said. It's kind of like my side airline job. It pays nothing, but I can fly anywhere anytime for free, so that makes up for a lot for someone that wants/needs to fly.Look in the City Council agendas

russellc
11-06-2008, 01:53 PM
The mayor here in Wilburton (pop ~3,000) pays the mayor $50,000 a year.

bornhere
11-06-2008, 02:00 PM
I think I've said this before, but being mayor or a council member is not a full time job, nor is it supposed to be.

We've attracted civic-minded candidates with the pay scale that's in place now.