View Full Version : Entry level housing in Maywood Park



betts
11-05-2008, 12:12 AM
This sounds like what was originally going to be called Maywood Hall. It's a great opportunity for first time home buyers, I think.

Oklahoma developer hopes buyers will find home at the Leslie

Design to offer prices starting at $99,900 for first-time purchasers

BY STEVE LACKMEYER

Published: November 5, 2008

The least expensive new housing yet to be introduced to downtown Oklahoma City is set to be built next year as development continues in the Maywood Park neighborhood. Developer Ron Bradshaw said prices for The Leslie will start at $99,900 — a price point targeted after he saw brisk pre-sales for the adjoining Maywood Lofts.

"The broader market is what we’ve known it to be all along — it’s the lower price point,” Bradshaw said. "And we’ve designed something that is high quality but very affordable for the first-time home buyer. For medical students, they could see mortgage payments lower than what they might pay renting.”

Properties share look

The Leslie is designed by TAParchitecture, the same firm behind the Brownstones at Maywood Park immediately north (the Maywood Lofts were designed by HSE Architects), and The Leslie continues the look of the brownstones. "It will be more contemporary,” Bradshaw said. "But it will have the brick and balconies that will give it the brownstone flavor.” The project’s name is drawn from the area’s original plat and the narrow width of the street (called a "mews”), is designed for pedestrians over vehicles, and can best be compared to Carey Place near Oklahoma City University. The new street, Leslie’s Place, is 30 feet wide, compared with 44 feet for NE 3 as it runs through the nearby brownstones.

"The idea was to make it more of a people-friendly courtyard,” Bradshaw said. Bradshaw acknowledged financing is harder than six months ago. He said equity is in place and the project needs to pre-sell half of the 48 units before construction begins.

Demand not falling

Based on successful sales reservations at the Maywood Lofts, Bradshaw believes pre-sales won’t be a problem with the lower-priced Leslie.
Brett Price, president of Urban Neighbors, agree downtown has a demand for housing priced in the range offered by Bradshaw. "People are still very excited about what’s going on downtown,” Price said. "And there are several developments to pick from, so people are wanting to see what’s out there. They know downtown is different than suburban or rural living — they’ll be living in a smaller space, and they’re going for a lifestyle.”

Steve
11-05-2008, 08:15 AM
Nope, it's not Maywood Hall. I've got Maywood Hall stuff at my blog, OKC Central — All about downtown OKC (http://www.okccentral.com).

metro
11-05-2008, 08:18 AM
Steve, do you have any pictures of the "Leslie"

betts
11-05-2008, 10:48 AM
I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures. If they're what I think they are, they look like two and three story brick townhouses that are slightly more contemporary, but similar in appearance to, the Brownstones. They won't use build-block construction, of course, at that price, nor will they have the slate roofs and copper details (if I remember correctly), but they're nice looking. Although they look like townhouses, I didn't see floorplans, so I don't know if they're actually lofts and the building has a townhouse appearance, making them more like a Chicago-style two flat or three flat, or not.

Midtowner
11-05-2008, 11:31 AM
Price per square foot is what I'm interested in knowing.

CuatrodeMayo
11-05-2008, 12:19 PM
I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures. If they're what I think they are, they look like two and three story brick townhouses that are slightly more contemporary, but similar in appearance to, the Brownstones. They won't use build-block construction, of course, at that price, nor will they have the slate roofs and copper details (if I remember correctly), but they're nice looking. Although they look like townhouses, I didn't see floorplans, so I don't know if they're actually lofts and the building has a townhouse appearance, making them more like a Chicago-style two flat or three flat, or not.

I have a feeling they are not full townhouses. A $100k home downtown at 200$/sq ft would only have 500 sq ft!

betts
11-05-2008, 12:54 PM
I have a feeling they are not full townhouses. A $100k home downtown at 200$/sq ft would only have 500 sq ft!

I think you're right, but I also think they're not priced as high as $200 a square foot. There are probably two or three "flats" per townhouse.

warreng88
11-05-2008, 03:38 PM
So let me see if I have the layout of this straight:

Maywood Lofts would be on the northside of NE 2nd between Oklahoma Ave and the train wall.

Maywood Hall is going to be built directly east of this taking up a half block on NE 2nd between Oklahoma and Walnut.

The Brownstones at Maywood Park are facing 3rd Street on either side of Oklahoma Avenue east and west.

The Leslie will be between the south Brownstones and The Maywood Lofts on "Leslie Place" between the train wall and Oklahoma.

Does that about cover it?

betts
11-05-2008, 04:08 PM
So let me see if I have the layout of this straight:

Maywood Lofts would be on the northside of NE 2nd between Oklahoma Ave and the train wall.

Maywood Hall is going to be built directly east of this taking up a half block on NE 2nd between Oklahoma and Walnut.

The Brownstones at Maywood Park are facing 3rd Street on either side of Oklahoma Avenue east and west.

The Leslie will be between the south Brownstones and The Maywood Lofts on "Leslie Place" between the train wall and Oklahoma.

Does that about cover it? A nice little neighborhood is developing.

Exactly right.

shane453
11-05-2008, 05:48 PM
I love how it's really filling in block-by-block. Kind of one step at a time, fill it in and move to the next project. The Triangle has been an excellent masterplan with great execution.

Turanacus
11-06-2008, 08:23 AM
I often cruise through the Brownstone area, it is completely dead. Have they sold any of those things?

metro
11-06-2008, 08:25 AM
Yes Turanacus, they've sold quite a few actually. Most of them in Phase I are still being wrapped up. This time next year, you won't even recognize the area and it will have tons of streetlife if things stay on track.

betts
11-06-2008, 01:50 PM
I bought one. It's just in the process of having the wiring done, so we're a ways off yet.

Virtually all of the Brownstones but the model and the Decorator showhouse brownstones only have framing on the interior, which allows you to change anything you'd like.

wsucougz
11-06-2008, 02:06 PM
How many have sold now, 3 including the one over the retail space?

onthestrip
11-06-2008, 03:17 PM
I thought I read in the paper that they have only sold 2 brownstones, and that they have come off the price considerably on several of them. Is this right?

Architect2010
11-06-2008, 06:57 PM
Its not that they're selling badly. They're just hella expensive. No it is not a sign of Downtown Residential slowing down.

Most people cannot afford these things and even if they can, very few of them are the urban progressive thats just gonna drop their big lawn and house for a vertical home squeezed between two other brownstones with no lawn, or really even a completed neighborhood yet.

Give it time. Look at all the cheaper projects, they sell like crazy.

jc4455
11-06-2008, 07:33 PM
I really have a hard time understanding the mindset behind the pricing of some of these new downtown housing developments. Not to mention the pricing behind some of the refurbished, loft-type places.

I understand that there's a desire to get young professionals in these places, but I see no real draw for the young professional crowd. There's no grocery shopping available, limited dining and you can only do the bricktown thing so many times.

There also the fact that, if they're anything like me, "young professionals" work a good 50-70 hours a week and most times just want to be able to go home and sleep, not pay for a "downtown experience".

Midtowner
11-06-2008, 07:44 PM
I probably fit into that young professional category as well. The thing is, I think spending upwards of $200 per square foot in Oklahoma City for a home makes very little financial sense. It's more than twice the going rate for suburban real estate, the build quality is not that much greater, there's no yard (which is actually kind of appealing), and finally, the market being able to sustain that sort of price is less than a certainty, so it'll be eons before I have any equity.

I think there is SOME value in the fact that living downtown means I have basically a 5 minute commute. The grocery store issue is minimal as the 15 minutes I have to drive to get to a good grocery store is made up in spades compared to the time saved not having to brave the Broadway Extension on a daily basis.

Eventually, I think prices will drop to a point where moving downtown not only makes sense because it's fun... it'll eventually make financial sense. Right now, it doesn't.

betts
11-07-2008, 06:24 AM
I think you have to look at materials and quality of construction too, something too few people do when buying a home. I don't believe homes downtown are more than twice the price per square foot of comparable quality construction. Matt Wilson, in Edmond, 7 years ago was building homes for $150 a foot without the land (I was looking at the time). I don't know what they are now, but I bet they're at least comparable to downtown prices. Those prices, compared with most cities, are still very reasonable.

When you've got all brick construction, slate roofing, copper guttering, build-block walls, that will cost more than a stick built home with some wood siding, asphalt shingles and painted gutters, What's nice is that now it sounds like there will be more affordable options downtown. But you won't get the same materials you do with the more expensive homes.

metro
11-07-2008, 07:31 AM
I really have a hard time understanding the mindset behind the pricing of some of these new downtown housing developments. Not to mention the pricing behind some of the refurbished, loft-type places.

I understand that there's a desire to get young professionals in these places, but I see no real draw for the young professional crowd. There's no grocery shopping available, limited dining and you can only do the bricktown thing so many times.

There also the fact that, if they're anything like me, "young professionals" work a good 50-70 hours a week and most times just want to be able to go home and sleep, not pay for a "downtown experience".

As a young professional downtown property owner, I disagree. It all depends on the circle you hang out in. I know hundreds of young professionals downtown that are living their purely for the experience/lifestyle. There are just as many or more that want to live down there but can't afford it.

Also, which "refurbished-loft style projects" are you referring to because the only lofts downtown for sale, Maywood Lofts, are one of the first reasonably priced developments targeted for young professionals. Basically the urban lifestyle is a new experience and mentality in Oklahoma and for some, it's hard to understand completely. There are more than a thousand that do get it, willing to pay the premium for it and are living the lifestyle. It takes these first risk takers on the riskier or higher (not all is high end, including myself) end of the market and let the developers make a good profit to take more risk on lower priced properties where their profit margin is going to be lower.

Bricktown, well, I rarely go to Bricktown, there is FAR more to downtown than touristy Bricktown. AA, Deep Deuce, Arts District, Film Row, MidTown anyone? There are also cool places in the CBD to hang.

Just another perspective......

betts
11-07-2008, 09:55 AM
As far as limited dining goes, Red Prime, Iguana, In the Raw, the Wedge, Deep Deuce Grill, Trattoria Il Centro, The Skirvin, Falcone's, Earl's Rib Palace, Sonic, McDonalds, Irma's, Prairie Thunder, McNellies, 1492, Cafe do Brasil, the Melting Pot, Abuelos, Bourbon Street, the Crab Shack and probably a bunch I'm not thinking about are there, and give you a wide range of prices and menus. Sage (can't remember the whole name) is coming with a market. That's more options than I've currently got on Western. I'm pretty pleased with dining options downtown, actually.

jbrown84
11-07-2008, 02:53 PM
There also the fact that, if they're anything like me, "young professionals" work a good 50-70 hours a week and most times just want to be able to go home and sleep, not pay for a "downtown experience".

Then why do young professionals want to live in other cities' downtowns? Other than the grocery issue, I don't see a difference.

jbrown84
11-07-2008, 03:03 PM
As far as limited dining goes, Red Prime, Iguana, In the Raw, the Wedge, Deep Deuce Grill, Trattoria Il Centro, The Skirvin, Falcone's, Earl's Rib Palace, Sonic, McDonalds, Irma's, Prairie Thunder, McNellies, 1492, Cafe do Brasil, the Melting Pot, Abuelos, Bourbon Street, the Crab Shack and probably a bunch I'm not thinking about are there, and give you a wide range of prices and menus. Sage (can't remember the whole name) is coming with a market. That's more options than I've currently got on Western. I'm pretty pleased with dining options downtown, actually.


Yeah I completely disagree with this notion that dining is limited. If he means no KFC on the corner, I guess so, but that isn't usually high on the list for young professionals I know. In fact, everyone my age is moving either to the core or to the inner NW historic areas, whether it's renting or buying.

CuatrodeMayo
11-08-2008, 09:06 PM
J-Park represent!

warreng88
11-20-2008, 10:53 AM
Posted this on "The Leslie" thread, but thought I would post it here too.

Downtown OKC set for more-affordable condosby Kelley Chambers

The Journal Record November 20, 2008

OKLAHOMA CITY – Downtown Oklahoma City may soon see housing options targeted at buyers who can’t quite afford a half-million-dollar condo.

The developers of Maywood Park began work in late 2006 to construct a neighborhood from the ground up.The first units they built, the Brownstones at Maywood Park, are priced between about $500,000 and $800,000.

Fifteen of those units were built and five more were added as show homes to benefit the Oklahoma City Orchestra League.

The development team, led by Ron Bradshaw, is now at work on the Second Street Lofts with plans for two more projects hitting a price range as low as $99,000.

The Second Street Lofts are under construction and priced about half as much as the brownstones.

“It’s down a notch in the price range,” Bradshaw said.

That project will have 55 lofts and 30,000 square feet of commercial space. Bradshaw said 39 of those units have sold along with 10 percent of the commercial space.

Residents and tenants at the lofts will also have underground parking, a luxury that adds to the final price tag.

“That’s really what makes these things cost so much is the underground parking,” Bradshaw said.

On average the lofts will have about 1,000 square feet and sell for between $134,000 and $266,000.

Pre-sales will be key in the start dates of two other projects.

The Leslie project is set to begin construction after the first of the year and a second phase must pre-sell 50 percent of the units before construction. That project calls for two 24-unit phases.

“Demand is what’s going to dictate the speed in which we build all this,” Bradshaw said.

The Leslie units will be priced from $99,000 to $230,000 each, and have at-grade parking.

“One of the things that brings the price down is we don’t have an underground parking garage to build,” Bradshaw said. “But it’s the same quality as the rest of it.”

On the drawing board is also a project dubbed Maywood Hall.The 36-unit project will require presales of half the units before the start of construction.

Units will range from about $145,000 to $370,000.

“It’s going to be in the middle of the price range,” Bradshaw said.
David Burnett, with Sperry Van Ness Oklahoma, marketed the neighboring Block 42 condo project, and said it is refreshing that a developer is catering to those who want to buy a condo downtown but have as of yet been unable to due to price.

Burnett said demand will likely be tremendous if the Triangle Group can deliver an urban product at a lower starting price point than much of what is currently available.

“It is refreshing to hear that a developer is finally catering to a largely untapped demographic,” he said. “Deep Deuce and a few other apartment complexes have generally been the only option for young professionals when it comes to downtown living.”

metro
11-20-2008, 10:55 AM
Sounds like Maywood Hall is going to be more expensive than some were thinking...

warreng88
11-20-2008, 10:57 AM
Sounds like Maywood Hall is going to be more expensive than some were thinking...

Looks like "The Leslie" is going to be the least expensive of the bunch.

jbrown84
11-20-2008, 02:15 PM
So it's now Second Street Lofts instead of Lofts at Maywood Park?

onthestrip
11-20-2008, 02:39 PM
“It is refreshing to hear that a developer is finally catering to a largely untapped demographic,” he said. “Deep Deuce and a few other apartment complexes have generally been the only option for young professionals when it comes to downtown living.”

Thats an interesting comment. Why have all these new housing projects been all for sale condos and not more apartments. Does Deep Duece not stay fairly full. Most people I know, in their mid 20s, would probably look at renting before buying. Even more so with the state of the economy.

Not to say we dont need condos, but I think a new 3-4 story apartment complex is something that downtown is missing.

jbrown84
11-20-2008, 02:48 PM
After being in Austin last weekend, I wonder the same thing, onthestrip. Many if not most of their low/midrise residential projects going in downtown are RENTALS. Even several of the highrises are apartments, not condos.

These look comprable to the Legacy but better looking on the outside:
Red River Flats (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Greystar-Red-River-Flats/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=80465)
West Avenue Lofts (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Gables-West-Avenue-Lofts/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=18644)
5th Street Commons (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Gables-5th-Street-Commons/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=81745)
404 Rio Grande (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/404-Rio-Grande/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=36068)
AMLI Downtown (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/AMLI-Downtown/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=42612)

These are highrises:
The Monarch (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/The-Monarch/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=80260)
21 Rio (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/21-Rio/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=82920)
Legacy on the Lake (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Legacy-on-the-Lake/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=81857)

metro
11-20-2008, 02:56 PM
So it's now Second Street Lofts instead of Lofts at Maywood Park?

I doubt they changed the name, it's probably lazy journalism on behalf of the reporter.

metro
11-20-2008, 02:57 PM
Thats an interesting comment. Why have all these new housing projects been all for sale condos and not more apartments. Does Deep Duece not stay fairly full. Most people I know, in their mid 20s, would probably look at renting before buying. Even more so with the state of the economy.

Not to say we dont need condos, but I think a new 3-4 story apartment complex is something that downtown is missing.

No, downtown needs more home ownership to maintain the market long-term, there are plenty of rental apartments, several multistory, the Legacy at Arts Central is about 4 stories and the Park Harvey is what, like 18 stories? Regency Tower is about 20 stories.

jbrown84
11-20-2008, 03:09 PM
No, downtown needs more home ownership to maintain the market long-term, there are plenty of rental apartments, several multistory, the Legacy at Arts Central is about 4 stories and the Park Harvey is what, like 18 stories? Regency Tower is about 20 stories.

We need more of both.

CuatrodeMayo
11-20-2008, 03:14 PM
Thats an interesting comment. Why have all these new housing projects been all for sale condos and not more apartments. Does Deep Duece not stay fairly full. Most people I know, in their mid 20s, would probably look at renting before buying. Even more so with the state of the economy.

Not to say we dont need condos, but I think a new 3-4 story apartment complex is something that downtown is missing.

I can't say much, but there is a possibility that Midtown could meet that need.

TStheThird
11-20-2008, 03:27 PM
That is what really sucks about The Hill. Had the TAP group won, we would have a nice mix of for sale and for rent units on that land. Does anyone have links to their proposal? I can't remember how many rental units they were incorporating, but it seemed that their overall development had a lot more units available than The Hill.

southernskye
11-20-2008, 09:38 PM
After being in Austin last weekend, I wonder the same thing, onthestrip. Many if not most of their low/midrise residential projects going in downtown are RENTALS. Even several of the highrises are apartments, not condos.

These look comprable to the Legacy but better looking on the outside:
Red River Flats (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Greystar-Red-River-Flats/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=80465)
West Avenue Lofts (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Gables-West-Avenue-Lofts/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=18644)
5th Street Commons (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Gables-5th-Street-Commons/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=81745)
404 Rio Grande (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/404-Rio-Grande/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=36068)
AMLI Downtown (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/AMLI-Downtown/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=42612)

These are highrises:
The Monarch (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/The-Monarch/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=80260)
21 Rio (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/21-Rio/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=82920)
Legacy on the Lake (http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Austin/Legacy-on-the-Lake/PropertyOverview.aspx?listingid=81857)

I will have to go take a look at some of those while we are there over Thanksgiving weekend. I haven't been in downtown Austin in a long time.

metro
11-21-2008, 08:18 AM
That is what really sucks about The Hill. Had the TAP group won, we would have a nice mix of for sale and for rent units on that land. Does anyone have links to their proposal? I can't remember how many rental units they were incorporating, but it seemed that their overall development had a lot more units available than The Hill.

About twice as many (if I remember correctly) PLUS ground level retail and an overall better asthetic look to the place. The Hill "at Bricktown" even though in Deep Deuce, is more like a gated community downtown and not very inviting to the community or the public. OCURA:poke:

onthestrip
11-21-2008, 08:57 AM
No, downtown needs more home ownership to maintain the market long-term, there are plenty of rental apartments, several multistory, the Legacy at Arts Central is about 4 stories and the Park Harvey is what, like 18 stories? Regency Tower is about 20 stories.

I know that Regency and Park Harvey offer apartments, but they werent really designed for apartment living. And the Legacy just seems to be in a bad location. Im not sure I know anyone that has even considered living there.

The area north of BT is the place that a younger person would want to live, but there are very few new rental units being offered. If, for example, The Hill built a four story apartment building with parking underneath, I have a feeling that they would fill up very quickly.

metro
11-21-2008, 09:17 AM
Why is the Legacy in a "bad location?" Just because you don't know anyone living their doesn't mean the location is bad, it's a fairly full complex. It's in the heart of the Arts District and that's why many people choose to live their, FOR THE LOCATION. I think their prices are too high, but obviously plenty of people are willing to pay for it.

FYI, I live/own downtown and live on the far west side of downtown, aka SOSA area. I know plenty of young people in ALL parts of downtown, so your location argument doesn't really hold water IMO. I agree Deep Deuce has a higher concentration of young people, because it was the first and still the largest apartment community downtown, so that's natural it's going to have more young people. I also agree that it's a good place for those who are in the party scene or like to hang out at bars clubs regularly, but there are plenty youngsters downtown that don't and they are scattered all througout downtown.

sroberts24
11-21-2008, 02:01 PM
i know a lot of 18-26 y/o college students, new into the work force, and looking for excitement and urban living for a good price, and what Austin has done with all their highrise housing being built right now is exactly what i think we need.... i know a lot of people that would move there in a instant

onthestrip
11-21-2008, 04:26 PM
Metro, Im not bashing the Legacy, I just think something like it needs to be north of BT. For the people that live there because its in/close to the arts district, thats great. However, Im guessing that most young proffesionals eat, drink, go to movies or bowling more often than they go to the Civic Center or museums. Meaning they would probably rather live closer to those things, which is north of BT. We always talk about a critical mass of that area and I think we would get there quicker if there were more apartment options just north of bricktown.

jbrown84
11-21-2008, 04:57 PM
There is ABSOLUTELY a huge market for more rentals in/near Bricktown. I don't know why metro is fighting that concept.

shane453
11-21-2008, 05:13 PM
He wasn't fighting that, he was just trying to argue that the Legacy is in a good location. There are more than a handful of good locations for large rental buildings in downtown, north of BT is one of them, so is the Arts District. Different strokes for different folks.

jbrown84
11-21-2008, 05:59 PM
Yeah but if you go further back in the thread, he argued against the concept that we need more rentals and not just condos.

As I pointed out, Austin is building just as many if not more apartments than condos in their downtown area.

Is there some reason we shouldn't have that same dynamic?

mecarr
11-21-2008, 06:01 PM
I know that Regency and Park Harvey offer apartments, but they werent really designed for apartment living. And the Legacy just seems to be in a bad location. Im not sure I know anyone that has even considered living there.

The area north of BT is the place that a younger person would want to live, but there are very few new rental units being offered. If, for example, The Hill built a four story apartment building with parking underneath, I have a feeling that they would fill up very quickly.

FYI, Legacy apartments have rented out about 95% of their apartments...This place is packed and people like living there.

jbrown84
11-21-2008, 06:24 PM
Park Harvey is around that occupancy as well.

southernskye
11-21-2008, 07:34 PM
Yeah but if you go further back in the thread, he argued against the concept that we need more rentals and not just condos.

As I pointed out, Austin is building just as many if not more apartments than condos in their downtown area.

Is there some reason we shouldn't have that same dynamic?
Jbrown did you see The Austonian when you were down there ?

jbrown84
11-21-2008, 08:26 PM
Yeah it's going up. Pretty freakin' nice, and right on Congress. Not sure if it's condos, apartments, or both.

southernskye
11-21-2008, 08:38 PM
Yeah it's going up. Pretty freakin' nice, and right on Congress. Not sure if it's condos, apartments, or both.


Condos (http://www.theaustonian.com/index.php), 56 stories

metro
11-22-2008, 02:02 PM
There is ABSOLUTELY a huge market for more rentals in/near Bricktown. I don't know why metro is fighting that concept.

Not fighting it, as I stated I agree, just trying to state some other facts as someone WHO DOES LIVE AND OWN DOWNTOWN AND IS A YOUNG TWENTY-SOMETHING involved in most downtown organizations. I'm not someone talking on the sidelines, but someone changing the game.

metro
11-22-2008, 02:03 PM
He wasn't fighting that, he was just trying to argue that the Legacy is in a good location. There are more than a handful of good locations for large rental buildings in downtown, north of BT is one of them, so is the Arts District. Different strokes for different folks.

Exactly, and they clearly haven't been around long enough or read my posts on Legacy, because I have some strong opinions on how the ball was dropped on Legacy on so many levels, like you said, it is a good location and we need residents in all parts of downtown to make it healthy, not just the Bricktown party crowd.