Steve, I know you have journalistic integrity, and your sources are impeccable, but this can't be true. We all know that once the city or any governing body gets involved it gets cheapened, mucked up, and goes out to bid to friends who will cheat us.Sorry....couldn't resist.

This comment makes absolutely no sense, the City has been involved in this from the beginning.

RC. Rover said that with tongue in cheek. My inturpretation was that he was making fun of those that want to blame the city for everything that they don't like about what is done or proposed, which comes from a good 70 per cent of the forum.

he was making fun of those that want to blame the city for everything that they don't like about what is done or proposed, which comes from a good 70 per cent of the forum.

Oh, the ironic hyperbole.

This comment makes absolutely no sense, the City has been involved in this from the beginning.

Really though, who lets facts get in the way of their arguments.

This comment makes absolutely no sense, the City has been involved in this from the beginning.

This was said tongue in cheek poking fun at all those who think any city project is somehow corrupt or manipulated. Trust me, I wasn't serious.

This was said tongue in cheek poking fun at all those who think any city project is somehow corrupt or manipulated. Trust me, I wasn't serious.

My bad, I worked for the City of OKC for 28 years and get tired of all the negative feedback about the City.

Renderings! Renderings! Anyone?

What is amazing to me is that this forum blames the city for the cable not being included when they should be blaming the design team. They were tasked with bringing in a project that would not exceed 5 million dollars in cost and did not. If memory serves they were given extra money to redesign it, when in my opinion that should been covered by the original fees they were paid.

It was not the Cables themselves that were the problem. The cost overrun was due to the change of requirement by the ODOT that the bridge had to support vehicular traffice, which meant that the low cost light span construction that it was designed to be could no longer support the loads, thus a redesign was needed. As with all great design, it is not just as simple as swapping components structurally, as the structural system chosen should reinforce and support the design intent. Hard to make a scissortail flycatcher that is slender long, light and elegant read out of a structural system that now requires a truss which is anything but that. Since the cable stayed structure no longer made sense as a component required to support the bridge, they became very expensive design elements that now created redundancy and from that point forward the solution becomes muddied and forced. No longer true to the level of clarity it once was. In many cases this type of change in order to be designed properly would need to be begun all over with the new constraints as a driving factor in the solution which would likely be a completely different bridge in form, structure and purpose. This wasn't the design teams neglect of the almighty $$$ as it is always so easy to try to pin on designers. Rather the results of a change in its design requirments. I will hold my opinions on how successfully it was dealt with until I see the final renderings...but I have to say it would be hard pressed to surpass the simple elegance and appropriate way the bridge, a static element captured the majestic feeling and articulation of movement and flight that was imbued in the original design solution. But here is to hoping that what ever form is revealed that it will be equally appropriate.

Bridge to nowhere? OKC Council puts Skydance out for bids, but questions timing of MAPS 3 projects
By Brian Brus
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2837
Posted: 10:22 AM Tuesday, June 21, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – Oklahoma City Council members expressed concern Tuesday morning that construction across the new Interstate 40 near downtown might appear to be a “bridge to nowhere” as Core to Shore development projects are scheduled.

The council unanimously approved putting out for bids the Skydance Bridge structure and adjoining sculpture pieces planned near SW Ninth Street and Harvey Avenue. If the project proceeds according to schedule, construction is expected to begin in August and the full bridge will be completed by the end of April.

A pedestrian bridge was required by the Federal Highway Administration as part of the funding received for moving the I-40 Crosstown closer to the Oklahoma River. Since the project was initially announced three years ago, the overall cost has risen to about $12.8 million while some design elements of the bridge have been simplified in response to the economic downturn.

With long spires reminiscent of a scissor-tailed flycatcher bird, the 18-story-tall bridge is expected to be one of the most visible elements of extensive redevelopment of 750 acres between the downtown district and the river, referred to as the Core to Shore area. City leaders scheduled its construction to coincide with the opening of the new I-40.

At the same time, however, $777 million in major infrastructure projects will be in play under the MAPS 3 temporary sales tax, including the construction of a larger convention center, a 70-acre park and downtown rail transportation that will be the first phase of a larger metro-wide mass transit system. Some of those projects will involve the Core to Shore area – the park, for example, will abut the new boulevard created when the current I-40 is razed. City leaders and the public oversight committees they’ve created have been arguing over the order of those projects lately, because each must be supported by tax collections before they can begin.

If the central park isn’t ready for public access soon, the bridge would seemingly lead from an empty lot on one side of the interstate to the other, some council members said Tuesday.

“Has there been any thought given, while we’re in this process of realigning all the MAPS projects, as to how we tie the bridge and something south of the bridge so that it just won’t be there by itself when we get finished?” asked Councilman Pete White. “I would appreciate there being some kind of plan, some statement, as to what we intend to do … on both sides of the bridge.”

The 380-foot-span bridge, designed by MKEC/Butzer Design, will connect what officials are referring to as the upper park and the lower park on the south and north sides of I-40. In the absence of a lower park, White said, at least a walking and riding trail should be constructed to let visitors reach the river.

City Manager Jim Couch said the oversight committees have taken that void into consideration as they’ve proposed various project schedules. If council members adopt a schedule that starts work on the convention center early and bumps the park down the list, a path would be built from the new boulevard to the bridge and then to the river.

Councilman Gary Marrs confirmed that the parks subcommittee has planned for making the bridge accessible and useful for the public.

“I believe that some of the conversation when we went over that would lead people to believe that we’re just randomly making decisions and throwing things out, irrespective of how they work through the whole process. And that’s not true,” Marrs said. “There will be something in there before we get to the completion of the park.”

White said he is also concerned about the fluidity of plans and that he would like to pin down a project schedule soon.

Its best to do/finish the bridge now rather than risking it later when there is traffic on the new I-40.

I'm told by a person directly involved in the design (not city side) that the final design is actually better than what was initially presented to the public.

Cant wait to see the new design as I thoght the original one was stunning. The one "truss" design one I saw was under-whelming. This article in Wed's Oklahoman, or I should say, the version shown online looks like they used the original renderings.

http://www.newsok.com/skydance-bridge-construction-in-okc-set-for-august-start/article/3579184?custom_click=lead_story_title

Renderings never capture the real impact. There is no way to simulate the impact of size and depth. While I agree that the cables would have been a nice element I am hard pressed to justify spending millions more. This could have been a normal walk-over and instead we get a dramatic piece of art with it. Whether it is Degas or De Vinci, who knows.

The 18 stories described in the article above works for me. That's a tall bird!

You'd think they'd release the drawings if construction is set to begin in a month and a half...

so... it's going to be essentially the original, approved design minus the cables?
http://arch.413chan.net/I%27m_OK_With_This-(n1296497202304).png

-M

Here is the presentation made by Dennis Clowers, Public Works Director, at yesterday's city council meeting. A short animation showing what to expect, at least generally, is at the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgFqIai2Yjg&feature=player_profilepage

If these screen captures during that video portray the bridge accurately, these are eastbound images of the bridge, approaching Harvey ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/skydance_2011_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/skydance_2011_2.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/skydance_2011_3.jpg

No cables, but the sculpture appears to be affixed to and embedded in the ground.

Thanks Doug! That will be awesome. Next April will be here before we know it!

Looks great!

Even though the parks might lag somewhat this will be a great landmark on the new I-40.

If we save money by building it before the highway opens, I can't think of a reason not to build it now. It may be a bit of a bridge to nowhere, but at that scale people are going to want to walk on it as well as look at it and it will probably pull people into the park who wouldn't ordinarily go there. As long as we demolish all the buildings on park land and minimally landscape, it's going to be a draw and will perhaps be the most important feature of the park for years to come.

I have yet to see who decided, and for what reason, that it should be able to hold a vehicle. Anyone know?

I have yet to see who decided, and for what reason, that it should be able to hold a vehicle. Anyone know?

Thought that myself as well...perhaps a Civil Defense type decision...an extra causeway in case ot natural disaster like tornadoes...for emergency vehiclse or some other like circumstance...

If we save money by building it before the highway opens, I can't think of a reason not to build it now. It may be a bit of a bridge to nowhere, but at that scale people are going to want to walk on it as well as look at it and it will probably pull people into the park who wouldn't ordinarily go there. As long as we demolish all the buildings on park land and minimally landscape, it's going to be a draw and will perhaps be the most important feature of the park for years to come.
Betts, it IS "being built now." Initial contracts are scheduled to be done next month, if I understood what Clowers said correctly. He said that it is expected to be completed in April 2012.

I have yet to see who decided, and for what reason, that it should be able to hold a vehicle. Anyone know?
Other than bicycles, I don't recall hearing anything about "vehicles." What did you hear differently?

Post 428 above, Doug.

I thought ODOT originally said it was for maintenance truck access. I don't believe private vehicles will be allowed.

This will be pretty cool. I can't wait for it to start going up!

I thought ODOT originally said it was for maintenance truck access. I don't believe private vehicles will be allowed.

This is correct, although when the vehicle types were determined it then fell under a new standard that required the bridge to have a dramaticly enhanced load bearing capacity that could support various maintenance vehicles. So as a result the bridge is a vehicle rated bridge that is designated only for pedestrian use.

I thought ODOT originally said it was for maintenance truck access. I don't believe private vehicles will be allowed.

This seems a little absurd, their are plenty of other pedestrian bridges which could not support a vehicle. Their are vehicle crossings very near by so getting across is not an issue and that shortens the distance workers get to access deck parts of the bridge itself very little. Any major work will probably require a crane or boom lift that seem a little hard to do all the possible maintenance work parked on the bridge.

This seems a little absurd, their are plenty of other pedestrian bridges which could not support a vehicle. Their are vehicle crossings very near by so getting across is not an issue and that shortens the distance workers get to access deck parts of the bridge itself very little. Any major work will probably require a crane or boom lift that seem a little hard to do all the possible maintenance work parked on the bridge.

Keep in mind those other pedestrian bridges don't have tons and tons of steel towering 18 stories over them. That's a LOT of potential energy just hovering over a major interstate highway. It will need to be looked at/inspected from time to time. I'm not sure it's fair to compare the skydance bridge to other pedestrian bridges because it is so atypical when compared to the run of the mill pedestrian bridge.

Keep in mind those other pedestrian bridges don't have tons and tons of steel towering 18 stories over them. That's a LOT of potential energy just hovering over a major interstate highway. It will need to be looked at/inspected from time to time. I'm not sure it's fair to compare the skydance bridge to other pedestrian bridges because it is so atypical when compared to the run of the mill pedestrian bridge.


And inspections too will require a boom or crane as little could be done by climbing on the structure itself and it is likely the it would not be able to access all parts parked on the bridge anyway.

in a way, that could be a good thing. ......

Very strong bridge

And inspections too will require a boom or crane as little could be done by climbing on the structure itself and it is likely the it would not be able to access all parts parked on the bridge anyway.

They get pretty creative when accessing bridges for inspections and usually do use the bridge itself.

Hydra Platforms (http://www.stevensoncrane.com/hydraplatform2.html)

Snooper Truck (http://www.memorialbridge.info/images/062708/pages/snooper%20truck%20reaches%20over%20edge%20of%20bri dge%20for%20workers%20to%20install%20pier%20lights .htm)

I post the links because I think these are both pretty cool machines.

I thought the original plan had the sculpture spanning the entire Interstate and being anchored on each side. Looking at those screen captures from Doug it is only spanning one direction of traffic instead.

I thought the original plan had the sculpture spanning the entire Interstate and being anchored on each side. Looking at those screen captures from Doug it is only spanning one direction of traffic instead.

Well, my guess would be that it might have been the change they had to make when they lost the cables....

No. What you saw in Doug's screen captures was the original presentation.

For the original model, see page 2 on this thread. The new one is the same as the old one except with trusses instead of cables. No change in positioning

Thanks Posy and PhiAlpha. I stand corrected. I looked at those original renderings at it is the same.

It may be a bit of a bridge to nowhere, but at that scale people are going to want to walk on it as well as look at it and it will probably pull people into the park who wouldn't ordinarily go there.

Good point. And think of all the people who rode the canal water taxis when it first opened and that really went no where.

Here is the presentation made by Dennis Clowers, Public Works Director, at yesterday's city council meeting. A short animation showing what to expect, at least generally, is at the end.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgFqIai2Yjg&feature=player_profilepage

If these screen captures during that video portray the bridge accurately, these are eastbound images of the bridge, approaching Harvey ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/skydance_2011_1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/skydance_2011_2.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/skydance_2011_3.jpg

No cables, but the sculpture appears to be affixed to and embedded in the ground.

The new I-40 bridge looks similar to this bridge in Buenos Aires.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=932307218552&id=004e77480b34d3b1c8d5be5741a3dc7c

http://www.buenos-aires-apartment.com/images/Puerto%20Madero%2014.jpg

http://www.buenosaires54.com/images/pm4.jpg

Sorta, kinda...but not really...

The smooth bottom of the Buenos Aires bridge looks better than the beams on the Skydance OKC bridge.

Not to mention the water helps

The smooth bottom of the Buenos Aires bridge looks better than the beams on the Skydance OKC bridge.

You have to keep in mind that they are trying to mimic our state bird "scissortailed flycatcher". The more angular lines are appropriate.

So this is the area where the bridge will be built, near Harvey? Anyone know if the highway under and around the bridge will be done by the time it's open to the public?

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/skydancebridgelocation.jpg

The goal is to have the pedi bridge completed before the roadway opens if I recall correctly.

For those interested in getting a sneak peak at the current design of the Skydance Bridge follow the link below:

Click on me, a 47 page PDF will pop up, go to page 25 (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2011/plans1107/360_2107_ACOKCY-XTWN(073)_1742884/A%20FULL%20FILE.pdf)

ODOT is bidding out their portion of this bridge this month and will award the project at the beginning of August. They are only constructing the substructure but there is one page that has plan and profile shot of the entire bridge. You can see the altered shape of the trusses. I didn't care for it at first but it is slowly growing on me. I'd be interested in hearing what other people think.

Hmmm, got an error message after download was complete saying the document was "damaged and could not be repaired" If someone can get it to work and post the pic here directly, or to a link where it can just be viewed (without downloading). Thanks in advance!

Hmmm, got an error message after download was complete saying the document was "damaged and could not be repaired" If someone can get it to work and post the pic here directly, or to a link where it can just be viewed (without downloading). Thanks in advance!

Hmmm. Working for me. I hate when this stuff happens. Try this:

From ODOT's home page: http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/ select > Contracts and Proposals > Preliminary Projects Plan Sheets - Online - For Review > July 21, 2011 > ACOKCY-XTWN(073)_1742884 > sheet 25.

Thanks, it is probably a glitch on my end, I get it from time to time with PDF files.

ON EDIT: That pdf file downloaded and opened just fine, so go figure. Thanks again!

For those interested in getting a sneak peak at the current design of the Skydance Bridge follow the link below:

Click on me, a 47 page PDF will pop up, go to page 25 (http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/contracts/a2011/plans1107/360_2107_ACOKCY-XTWN(073)_1742884/A%20FULL%20FILE.pdf)

ODOT is bidding out their portion of this bridge this month and will award the project at the beginning of August. They are only constructing the substructure but there is one page that has plan and profile shot of the entire bridge. You can see the altered shape of the trusses. I didn't care for it at first but it is slowly growing on me. I'd be interested in hearing what other people think.

Maybe those who are architects or engineers can get something from that but, for a lay person like me, I don't see anything that gives me a clue about what will be happening that is different from original designs.

It looks like the structure will be about 170' tall. The 'Sculpture' part of the bridge doesn't appear to be solidly clad anymore, but more of a truss with a linear elements running along the exterior of the truss. Honestly, it looks similar to what Rand Elliot did at Classen Curve with the vertical entry store signage. Overall it looks way more light and airy than the initial proposal.

Let's see if this works...

http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=932&d=1309525734

That's awesome!

I updated the map above to show where the bridge will be.

I updated the map above to show where the bridge will be.

I don't see any new markings but that's okay. The bridge will be located at the street to the immediate east of old Union Station, ala COPTA headquarters.

I don't see any new markings but that's okay. The bridge will be located at the street to the immediate east of old Union Station, ala COPTA headquarters.

I started to superimpose the .pdf map onto the Google map, but decided to just put a black line where the bridge will be.

Right click, View Image

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/skydancebridgemap.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/skydancebridgediagram.jpg

Maybe those who are architects or engineers can get something from that but, for a lay person like me, I don't see anything that gives me a clue about what will be happening that is different from original designs.

If you think that looks incomprehensible, you should see change orders.

Speaking of Skydance Bridge...pretty sure this was posted already but it's still interesting to watch.

http://www.okc.gov/skybridge/skydance.wmv

http://www.okc.gov/skybridge/skybridge_pres.pdf

The original design was elegant and purposeful. A beautiful statement with a function… When the cables were value-engineered away, and the slender, cable-supported span became a railroad trestle, the reason for the scissortail sculpture vaporized. Now it too has been reduced to a form without a purpose. Bastardized from a sleek, inspiring form, into a skeletal ruin with fish scales that will soon be covered with overlapping layers of pigeon droppings.

Now, instead of inspiring awe, this contraption will just cause people to say: “What in the hell is THAT?”

OKC should have bellied-up to build the original design, or had the cognizance to call it quits.

I don't see any new markings but that's okay. The bridge will be located at the street to the immediate east of old Union Station, ala COPTA headquarters.


That matches my recall as well. I am not as happy about the pedi bridge as I once was, but I have hopes for it all the same, including the hope that there will in fact be an awesome park on either end of it eventually, one worthy of enduring grandchildren wanting to drag me from one end to the other.

That matches my recall as well. I am not as happy about the pedi bridge as I once was, but I have hopes for it all the same, including the hope that there will in fact be an awesome park on either end of it eventually, one worthy of enduring grandchildren wanting to drag me from one end to the other.

Agree. I think people who never saw the original design will still be impressed. Not as impressed as they would have been had it been a vision of form and function, but I still say there will be people going to the park who don't usually go to parks. They'll want to walk across that bridge.