Can anyone explain the lack of LED lighting? I thought OKC wanted to move forward.

Can anyone explain the lack of LED lighting? I thought OKC wanted to move forward.

If you believe this post in this very thread:


Yes, this is correct. And it will be cool... and not a pigeon perch. lol

I think "feathers" is just a play on words referring to the Fly Catcher "influence" the architects continually referred to. It would be more appropriate to probably call them "scales" with enough dimension that they appear different in various light and angles. Not something so drastic that birds can sit up there or appear "butchered." Also, LED's are supposed to have a grand presence in the design.

I am going to take a break and go down there today and see if anything is going into place.

Then in certainly sounds like LED lighting will be part of the design

I hope that to be true. That will make 3 lighting attractions in OKC....maybe 4 if something about boathouse row has any lighting.

I hope that to be true. That will make 3 lighting attractions in OKC....maybe 4 if something about boathouse row has any lighting.

I take it you neither have looked at the master plans or driven by at night

I take it you neither have looked at the master plans or driven by at night

Snowman, you're assuming that posters might actually want to know what they're talking about before making comments.

Full Spectrum LED Lighting will be a significant part
of this bridge.

http://www.bostonmuseum.org/images/photos/bridges/skydance.jpg

I know that was the plan but due to the cost over runs has the LED lighting been "cut" too?

Full Spectrum LED Lighting will be a significant part
of this bridge.

http://www.bostonmuseum.org/images/photos/bridges/skydance.jpg

Awesome Pic!

I know that was the plan but due to the cost over runs has the LED lighting been "cut" too?

It wasn't last time I talked with one of the architects about 2 months ago. In fact, while I was there in the studio, that was what he was working on specs for.

I am wondering how that picture could end up on a Boston Museum website when to my knowledge it hasn't be released in OKC yet.

I am wondering how that picture could end up on a Boston Museum website when to my knowledge it hasn't be released in OKC yet.

...that is the ORIGINAL design. The one with the smooth, white sculpture, and the contemporary bridge span. (Not the dumbed-down version we're actually getting: pigeon perches parked over a railroad trestle...) They haven't published renderings of the real thing yet.

...that is the ORIGINAL design. The one with the smooth, white sculpture, and the contemporary bridge span. (Not the dumbed-down version we're actually getting: pigeon perches parked over a railroad trestle...) They haven't published renderings of the real thing yet.

Disagree. The original had substantially more cables and was white.

Nope. That's a rendering of the old design. If you blow that image up (control and + keys together on a PC will do that in some browsers like firefox) you can see all the supporting cables, the gently curved bridge bed that has the same apparent thickness of structure all the way from end to end and under the bed, and is free flying through the legs of the large structure with only the cables supporting it.

On the plans posted up thread... there are no cables at all, the bridge is not a flying structure, it is two segments with little camber that are supported by columns and a beam underneath at the break. The longer span has a much larger and varying truss structure towards one end. The structure is above the bed on the sides instead of under the bed on the original. It's now heavy, ham-handed and clunky comparatively, on the bridge section alone.

But the sculpture part that is now fully divorced from the bridge may have the same general appearance, less all the cables, if fully sided and lit well.

Sounds to me like dwellsokc has it in his head it will look something like the way the bottle at Pops is open sided? Gawd, I hope not. This is a big enough tragedy as it is.

I know that was the plan but due to the cost over runs has the LED lighting been "cut" too?

All of the LED Lighting is included in the project at this time......

All of the LED Lighting is included in the project at this time......

Can you say anything more as to the detail of the cladding?

Can't understand why so many are so worked up over something that no ones know for sure what it will really look like when finished.

Everyone....needs to cool off.

Here's what we know.

The bridge will be starting construction soon.
We know they abandoned the suspension style and opted for the truss system.

Here's what we are unsure of, and/or has not been confirmed.

The cladding.

Let's all cool off and start from there.

As far as the cladding goes, I'm fine with something other than the white material depicted. We've got the sculpture in our pocket park that is clad in white, with cables, and really it looks pretty ordinary up close.

I think that something of this scale needs to be taken as a whole and viewed from the intended perspective... the roadway. I will reserve judgement until it is done and I drive the highway. I think it will be striking and impressive and fit with the whole feeling of Boathouse Row, Devon Center, Ford Entrance and hopefully, the new CC....contemporary but not over the top.

Don't want to make a new thread just for this, so since this one is about the bird design, I'll say it here.

After 6pm (store closing), I took a manager's dog out for a walk (so he can do his serious business) and I saw two birds with split tails. I have never seen a bird like that before, so I thought it was the Scissortail...Oklahoma's show bird.

Could be but grackles have them too, I think.

The only scissortails I have seen have been in the pre-dawn hours (2 to 5 am)

I have seen a bunch recently, was playing softball in norman bout a month ago and there was a scissortail hanging out in the outfield during both the games. That next week the were a few on Dell's campus.

Can you say anything more as to the detail of the cladding?
Posted over in Skyscraper City forum by Classof2010 (2/14/10) but still on the City's site at: http://okc.gov/skybridge/index.html

The 18-story structure, inspired by the skydance of the scissor-tailed flycatcher, is 30 feet wide, 440 feet long and will span the semi-depressed section of the new 10-lane Interstate 40 Highway and the BN&SF Railroad on the south edge of downtown Oklahoma City. Textures and color delineate the paths of north-south traffic. Two skyward reaching wings frame paths for travelers driving I-40. The taller wing reaches 185’ above the road surface and a 66-inch high ornamental metal railing spans the length of bridge.

By day, its cascading surface of stainless steel panels will shimmer in the sun. At night, the structure takes flight as its city-side surfaces emit a glow skyward. Traditional up lighting will show off the bridge at night and a translucent material on the face of the bridge’s sculpture wings will cause them to glow from within. Low glare exterior deck lighting dots the path across the bridge.

In Tuesday's Oklahoman, there was a front page story in the Metro/State section (can't locate it online) about the Crosstown could be ready in April, towards the end of the article, it mentioned the SkyDance Bridge and had the cost being $5.2 million ($3.5MM coming from the State). That threw me because the last I recalled hearing was the cost had risen from the original estimates of $3.3MM to almost $12.8MM. Did some digging, think I have it in chronological order, and the numbers for this thing are all over the place...

from Doug's blog (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2008/09/core-to-shore-i-40-pedestrian-bridge.html) (think he is referring to the Core to Shore document)

Some facts gleaned from that document are: * Estimated Cost: $3,300,000

http://newsok.com/proposed-bridge-over-i-40-promises-to-catch-eyes/article/3295112#ixzz1Tw7FfFhq (Lackmeyer, Oklahoman, 9/9/08)

Carroll said the bridge is inspired by the "skydance” of the scissor-tailed flycatcher, the state bird. The design, meanwhile, calls for oil piping and other local materials to ensure the project stays within its $5 million budget, which consists of funding from the city and state.
(interesting that local materials were to be used to keep costs in line when the "buy American" clause was cited for part of the substantial cost increase from $3.3MM to $12.8MM)

http://www.ou.edu/content/coe/fears/structural_faculty/chris_ramseyer/skydance_bridge.html (10/28/08)

Kienzle said the panel also considered whether or not the design could be built within its $5 million budget.
Butzer’s design was the only one of the top four that was able to be constructed within the $5 million budget and was given the highest score, Kienzle said.

From the City's website (exact date unknown but believe it was pulled in 2009):

Oklahoma City and State of Oklahoma Department of Transportation funds will pay for the estimated $5 million dollar construction cost.
currently states only this about funding:

Oklahoma City and State of Oklahoma Department of Transportation will fund the construction cost.

http://okc.about.com/od/attractionsandevents/a/okcskydance.htm

Funding & Construction
Construction of the Skydance Pedestrian Bridge will begin in August 2011, just as the I-40 constructions enter final stages. Estimated completion date for the bridge is April 2012.
The estimated $6.6 million construction cost will be funded by both city and federal money, about $3.5 million coming from the Oklahoma State Department of Transportation's federal funding and the rest from the city of Oklahoma City.


According to a City Manager's memo (10/19/10), the City's portion of the funding for the Skydance Bridge is coming from:

...the 1989, 1995 and 2000 General Obligation Bond Authorizations
also

Estimated Construction Cost: $6,800,000 (an increase of $1,580,000)

http://newsok.com/skydance-bridge-to-be-redesigned/article/3508495#ixzz1Tvw7QhpF (Oklahoman, 10/27/10)

The estimate for the cost of the bridge was about $5.2 million, well under the $6.8 million budget. But unexpected problems pushed the cost estimate to $12.8 million as architects were working on finalizing the design, city officials said.

The Oklahoma City Council is amending the SkyDance Bridge design after cost projections doubled (Gazette, 11/4/10)

According to the city council memo, the bridge now has an estimated construction cost of $6.8 million, an amount that puts the project right against its budget threshold.

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-11247-park-and-go.html
Park and Go, (Gazette, 4/6/11)

The bridge, estimated to cost more than $12 million, will link the lower park and upper park, and is estimated to span 440 feet and tower 185 feet at its highest point above the ground.

http://newsok.com/skydance-bridge-construction-in-okc-set-for-august-start/article/3579184#ixzz1Tvui1Pnl (Oklahoman, 6/22/11)

Construction on the $5.2 million bridge was originally expected to start in March, but design changes prompted by projected cost overruns delayed it.
Originally, the bridge was to have been completed in 2010 but due to the cost increases and design changes (the original design was 85% complete) it has been delayed.

Originally, the bridge was to have been completed in 2010 but due to the cost increases and design changes (the original design was 85% complete) it has been delayed.


Apparently OKC's delays were inline with ODOT's delays

OMG, Larry. You have a lot more spare time than I do to do all of that research.

:LolLolLol
Google comes in handy...ran across it just trying to find the article in Tuesday's paper (which I never did locate), had to dig the paper out of the trash...

I know they said construction was suppose to start in August but I haven't heard or seen anything on this in awhile. Has construction started for the Skydance Bridge yet?

I know they said construction was suppose to start in August but I haven't heard or seen anything on this in awhile. Has construction started for the Skydance Bridge yet?

The only thing that has probably started at this point is the part that the bridge will be placed on.

Ohhhh, I remember reading that that was what they were gonna start on in August now. Lol how long will it be before they put up the actual structure?

When ever it is, it needs to be soon. Reportedly, the new Crosstown is "ahead of schedule" and could be open for traffic as early as Feb/March of next year.

The "bird" will be up by Christmas. Architectural drawings have made it to the "shop floor" and are being converted for fabrication.

Should see work on the foundation pier start soon. The new drawings caused the bridge to come in within budget fortunately.

The "bird" will be up by Christmas. Architectural drawings have made it to the "shop floor" and are being converted for fabrication.

Should see work on the foundation pier start soon. The new drawings caused the bridge to come in within budget fortunately.

Very good news, both that the "bird" will be up by Christmas and that it came within budget. Just hope it isn't a dumbed down version.

Well, I consider any less than that suspension bridge "dumbed down", unfortunately.

However, it will be a landmark sculpture still though. A particullarly impressive one for a pedestrian bridge.

Well yeah I do too, I meant that I hope it isn't even more dumbed down then what it already has been. And yes it will be a landmark, so either way it's gonna be very impressive when completed, especially for a pedestrian bridge as you mentioned.

The "bird" will be up by Christmas. Architectural drawings have made it to the "shop floor" and are being converted for fabrication.

Should see work on the foundation pier start soon. The new drawings caused the bridge to come in within budget fortunately.

Who is the fabricator and who is the contractor? When did they bid out the "bird"?

I will find out. Didn't ask. This project is unusual in that it is "turn-key" with the winning architectural team acting is the management and so forth seeing it all the way through.

99% of city projects are Design•Bid•Build with the city administrating. We are debating the merits of such processes now with the streetcar for instance as "turn-key" can allow for more creativity and accountability. It has it's issues too though.

I vaguelly remember WW being mentioned early on as the "bird" could be transported in big pieces via freight rail with no trucks involved via the Union Pacific line that runs adjacent to the bridge location and directly to the factory, a few miles away.

Not sure if that is still the plan although it makes a great deal of sense.

I will find out. Didn't ask. This project is unusual in that it is "turn-key" with the winning architectural team acting is the management and so forth seeing it all the way through.

99% of city projects are Design•Bid•Build with the city administrating. We are debating the merits of such processes now with the streetcar for instance as "turn-key" can allow for more creativity and accountability. It has it's issues too though.

I'll say. So much for competitive bidding. Is that a component of the turn key agreement that the build will be competitively bid? (I don't find either bid notices or bid plans for this project if it was bid.) How do you figure more accountability, by eliminating finger pointing between design and build teams?

i tried looking back but cant find the answer.. how tall will this bridge be?

i tried looking back but cant find the answer.. how tall will this bridge be?
185'

Jesseda: from a Gazette article:

The original cable-stay design had the bridge supported by cables running from two of the structure’s 18-story towers, but the new design would eliminate those cables for a normal truss pedestrian bridge with the bird sculpture towering above, said Dennis Clowers, public works director and city engineer.

I'll say. So much for competitive bidding. Is that a component of the turn key agreement that the build will be competitively bid? (I don't find either bid notices or bid plans for this project if it was bid.) How do you figure more accountability, by eliminating finger pointing between design and build teams?

Internally, I would say that is the idea. Reduce costs and liability on something unique by making the winning team wholly accountable.

After all of the changed and reduced budget, I would say the city is getting it's monies worth. In the Design•Build•Bid you are introcing new costs and ineffeciences at various levels. For a building, totally appropriate. For a sculptural structure that has to endure extreme wind and unique structural loading, having one entity accountable is probably a more ideal way to resolve accountability and mitigate liability.

If there were any cost savings to be had, they are probably pretty minimal after all the changes.

Internally, I would say that is the idea. Reduce costs and liability on something unique by making the winning team wholly accountable.

After all of the changed and reduced budget, I would say the city is getting it's monies worth. In the Design•Build•Bid you are introcing new costs and ineffeciences at various levels. For a building, totally appropriate. For a sculptural structure that has to endure extreme wind and unique structural loading, having one entity accountable is probably a more ideal way to resolve accountability and mitigate liability.

If there were any cost savings to be had, they are probably pretty minimal after all the changes.

I'm inclined to agree on this project as it appears to moving forward from here, but it makes me wonder even more about the steps that led to this end result.

UP, why do you so badly want cables all over the bridge? We deal with massive powerlines all over the state. No need to add bulky cables to our skyline. Beside, the bird will appear more gracious without attached cables.

UP, why do you so badly want cables all over the bridge? We deal with massive powerlines all over the state. No need to add bulky cables to our skyline. Beside, the bird will appear more gracious without attached cables.

Thunder, do you also think the Golden Gate Bridge would look more gracious without the cables?

UP, why do you so badly want cables all over the bridge? We deal with massive powerlines all over the state. No need to add bulky cables to our skyline. Beside, the bird will appear more gracious without attached cables.

Gracious or graceful?

I'm just hoping it doesn't become the world's largest stainless steel pigeon potty.

I'm just hoping it doesn't become the world's largest stainless steel pigeon potty.

So do you have a solution for keeping pigeons away from a bridge? I've seen many iconic structures around the world that look like a pigeon potty. The method of construction or the design usually has little to do with that. Birds don't care much.

So do you have a solution for keeping pigeons away from a bridge? I've seen many iconic structures around the world that look like a pigeon potty. The method of construction or the design usually has little to do with that. Birds don't care much.

A smooth, steep, continuous surface is much less inviting than a skeletal structure covered with perches...

A smooth, steep, continuous surface is much less inviting than a skeletal structure covered with perches...

Very true, but birds are very determined creatures and they will do what they do. My car gets hit occasionally when it's not under anything.

I have read about sound systems built into bridges that are designed to keep the birds and animals off of it, like at airport runways. If it becomes a problem, I assume we could do something similar.

I have read about sound systems built into bridges that are designed to keep the birds and animals off of it, like at airport runways. If it becomes a problem, I assume we could do something similar.

I believe Pop's in Arcadia has one of these systems incorporated into their big "bottle" sign along Route 66.

I have read about sound systems built into bridges that are designed to keep the birds and animals off of it, like at airport runways. If it becomes a problem, I assume we could do something similar.


I believe Pop's in Arcadia has one of these systems incorporated into their big "bottle" sign along Route 66.

Humane prevention.

Lets take a look at Walgreen's, shall we? They use NAILS!!!!!!! But did that stop the adorable pigeons? Nope. They are still able to build nests in between the nails. Oh, yeah, the nails serve as a reinforcement for the nests. So... Walgreen's committed action to make their buildings ugly to prevent pigeons only to have such end result of helping pigeons build solid nests. Oklahoma....is this a great state or what? :-)

Humane prevention.

Lets take a look at Walgreen's, shall we? They use NAILS!!!!!!! But did that stop the adorable pigeons? Nope. They are still able to build nests in between the nails. Oh, yeah, the nails serve as a reinforcement for the nests. So... Walgreen's committed action to make their buildings ugly to prevent pigeons only to have such end result of helping pigeons build solid nests. Oklahoma....is this a great state or what? :-)

First, Walgreens being stupid (if indeed that was their plan) isn't a reflection on Oklahoma. It isn't based in Oklahoma and their store designs aren't done here. Secondly, you tie together the active sound solution with NAILS... as if nails are anticipated on the pedestrian bridge? Are you trying to say all prevention systems are the same and stupid? Don't get your point.

Rover: think he was saying use a "humane prevention" method (possibly the sound system unlike Walgreen's nail approach)

Lets take a look at Walgreen's, shall we? They use NAILS!!!!!!! But did that stop the adorable pigeons? Nope. They are still able to build nests in between the nails. Oh, yeah, the nails serve as a reinforcement for the nests. So... Walgreen's committed action to make their buildings ugly to prevent pigeons only to have such end result of helping pigeons build solid nests. Oklahoma....is this a great state or what? :-)

That solution was implemented on several downtown parking garages here in Houston. Still want to trash Oklahoma? Or do you want to throw Texas in the mix? Again, here we go singling out Oklahoma on a problem that's nation-wide.

I've always preferred the 20 gauge shotgun method.

Rover: think he was saying use a "humane prevention" method (possibly the sound system unlike Walgreen's nail approach)

Then that is what he needs to say...and without taking a backhanded swipe at Oklahoma.

If you plan on getting riled up by all of Thunder's comments it might be best to abandon this website.