View Full Version : Tulsa wants a WNBA franchise, Good Move?



HOT ROD
07-24-2008, 02:35 AM
What do you think?

Go voice your support.

www.tulsaworld.com/wnbasurvey

:gossip:

HOT ROD
07-24-2008, 02:42 AM
I honestly like it.

WNBA doesn't compete with the NBA, so by Tulsa getting a WNBA franchise - they could get a team for their BOK arena and not compete with OKC. Nor would OKC have to 'worry' of sorts, if Tulsa were to snag an NHL or AFL team (when OKC would still have a minor league team).

If they were to get a WNBA team, that would give them something - and would enhance the state. We'd have pro-basketball year round; they support OKC, we support them.

For those of you who may not be familiar with the WNBA - there's some pretty good looking players and not too bad b-ball. Plus, the Tulsa team would play the Seattle Storm - an INSTANT rival given Tulsa is OKC's little sister.

I like it, and went to their survey for support. I know the survey is meant for businesses - but if you like it (or don't), go support them. It's a good move for tulsa and a GREAT move for OKC! IMO.

metro
07-24-2008, 08:09 AM
I don't think Tulsa or OKC could support WNBA long-term, I don't. I think PBC was smart by selling the Storm to raise much needed capital and to not take the risk of WNBA. We are going to be saturated from a corporate sponsor standpoint with just one major league franchise in the state. I do think Tulsa could probably support an NHL franchise, with the help (maybe at the expense of Blazers fans). Even though I'd rather have an NHL franchise in OKC, I'd still rather see Tulsa go after a more realistic NHL or MLS franchise than the non-prestigeous WNBA. At least MLS would get true worldwide exposure.

Saberman
07-24-2008, 08:28 AM
I think between OKC and Tulsa we could support two teams. WNBA has been slow to grow, but I think they have the potential to become more popular. With womens college BB becoming more popular, especially in OK, WNBA would be the next logical step. We can not expect real growth until we provide more entertainment, and sports is the most popular base in OK.

These are the things people look for when choosing new areas to move to, and companies to grow. In order to attract young people and keep them in our state we have to provide the things that keep them here.

JWil
07-24-2008, 08:38 AM
The WNBA can't even support itself without the money coming from the NBA. I'd stay a million miles away from this if I were Tulsa. But since Tulsa makes bad decisions constantly, I think they'll embrace this with open arms.

And nobody thinks about the WNBA for any reason when they're looking to move. Haha.

sroberts24
07-24-2008, 08:38 AM
wnba is bad, and i don't want it in the state!

OKCMallen
07-24-2008, 08:41 AM
I don't think the entire state would support the WNBA. Bad move.

HOT ROD
07-24-2008, 12:47 PM
I don't think Tulsa or OKC could support WNBA long-term, I don't. I think PBC was smart by selling the Storm to raise much needed capital and to not take the risk of WNBA. We are going to be saturated from a corporate sponsor standpoint with just one major league franchise in the state. I do think Tulsa could probably support an NHL franchise, with the help (maybe at the expense of Blazers fans). Even though I'd rather have an NHL franchise in OKC, I'd still rather see Tulsa go after a more realistic NHL or MLS franchise than the non-prestigeous WNBA. At least MLS would get true worldwide exposure.

Metro, I agree about the prestigue factor - but even Tulsans admit that they wont be able to get the NHL, because it would compete with OKC's NBA team (and no way OKC would have a minor league team with a major being in Tulsa).

I think Tulsa needs to be realistic, WNBA does have talent and I think with a few years it will be successful. Imagine the paris twins going to Tulsa, playing Candace Parker of LA Sparks and the Seattle Storm coming in? I think it would be a hit -and shouldn't be too terribly expensive nor require that much financial support. I mena, it's not a big 4 league (but it's close enough).

The thing I like most about the WNBA for Tulsa - is that it gives them SOMETHING to be proud of, that does not in any way compete with OKC (neither for fans or schedule). In fact, the survey has them possibly marketing using both teams, which would be a HUGE advantage to their team.

I say, they should go for it. If they can get an ownership group together - get a team.

I've read the TulsaNow forum and most people are thinking they dont want to compete with OKC at all. They're thinking using BOK as a music venue and capitalize on OKC's not being able to host as many events.

This might work for them, but this is COMPETITION for OKC actually, because events that would have gone to OKC might go to Tulsa, on NBA game nights (thus competition).

In some respects, I think they will have HUGE success landing college tournaments and such events - but I don't want OKC diminished in any way just because tulsa has the BOK. While at the same time, I want them to have something too - as it helps the state overall.

It'll be interesting if it happens, but judging by Tulsa's inability to ever agree on anything lately - as shown even on their forum; BOK will probably be akin to a white elephant most of the year.

roboticbrad
07-24-2008, 01:10 PM
I know I would never go to a game and I know most Tulsans could care less about the WNBA. I'd much rather wait and see if we have a chance at the NHL (which will probably never happen).

BDP
07-24-2008, 01:21 PM
I'd much rather wait and see if we have a chance at the NHL (which will probably never happen).

Well, anyone would, but are they mutually exclusive? Could the WNBA show that Tulsa could support an NHL or would that be completely unrelated?

I think it would work as well in Tulsa as any market, which is to say not that well. But I think the interest in women's basketball is higher in OK than would would expect right now. They could draft local players, which probably isn't always the best thing to do from a competitive stand point, but it would help the draw and the WNBA would need all the help it could get.

If I remember correctly, I think the Storm is one of the best supported WNBA teams in the country and it still looses money. So, it's not as if there'd be a lot of pressure.

As for the BOK getting shows away from OKC because of NBA scheduling, I don't think it works that way. The Staples Center hosts 3 major league teams and it still gets plenty of other events. They work around these things and they can turn these buildings around in a day easily. I think the BOK will get its share of shows that OKC will not, but not because of the NBA. It will because it's a newer market and a nice facility. Also, the Ford Center's improvements will also mitigate any head-to-head competition. It will have a lot of extra revenue streams for tenants that will make it as attractive as the BOK center, while in a slightly larger and more accessible market. In any event, I am looking forward to catching some shows up there. While it's nice to drive 5 minutes to a show, sometimes it's also fun to make a weekend out of it.

JWil
07-24-2008, 01:40 PM
The Duct Tape Arena is gonna be the biggest white elephant this state has ever seen.

Doug Loudenback
07-24-2008, 02:57 PM
I voted "No opinion." Had the option, "Don't care," been present, I'd have selected that.

I like Tulsa and think that it is a good city, per se, "as is." Among other things, it's got a pair of great museums, some wonderful old art deco downtown buildings, a great topography, and many individual people that I know and like who live there and who I count as my friends. That said, I have misgivings as to whether Tulsa, as a "conscious collective," so to speak, has yet joined the "Oklahoma race" -- as in, Tulsa not being above anywhere and, as it is, everywhere, else in the state, particularly but not limited to Oklahoma City.

Unless and until that should change, or at least until my perspective about that should change (and I'd prefer that it would since it would be beneficial to everyone concerned from a "statewide" perspective), I'm content for Tulsa to self-exist and me not be bothered about it one way or another, since such a care is not generally reciprocated by Tulsans toward non-Tulsa Okies, at least, not according to my experience.

When that viewpoint should change, I'll care more about what happens in and to Tulsa. Until then, my care is more akin to a hope that, sometime, Tulsa will see fit to toss off its air or superiority, admit to being part of Okie-land, including but not limited to the red-dirt farmers in western Oklahoma, the dry-lands of the southwest, the wheat-growing farmers of the northwest, etc., and, yes, my own town in the center of the state, and then go on from there with all the rest of the state, hand-in-hand, peer-to-peer. An apology to the rest of the state for not having done so much sooner would be good but it is not required.

As it is and for the time being, I'll be content to visit another "state" just by driving 90 miles up the turnpike, enjoy the Tulsa city-state, and then return to Oklahoma.

This is an overstatement and represents an emotional response to enduring a lifetime of Tulsans telling me (whether it was the "me" that grew up in Lawton (back in the days that the Tulsa public school system was not even a member of the cross-Oklahoma-schools sports and other interscholastic competition system, e.g., band, debate, drama competition) or the "me" that came to live in my birth city, Oklahoma City, that "I" wasn't as good as "them." It would clearly be beneficial to our whole state, and not just Tulsa, were it to stop harping on its superiority and internally focus on what IT needs to do for ITSELF as an integrated citizen-government-business collective unit to take care of its collective needs, but that hasn't happened yet. I was hoping that Tulsa would pass its 2007 River Tax (as well as earlier failed proposals to revitalize the city -- even though such a thing could have spring-boarded Tulsa perhaps beyond our own success level here, given the "natural-ness" of the Arkansas River passing by or through downtown and many other parts of Tulsa). That didn't happen.

As it is, many Tulsans claim that they are being taken advantage of by helping to fund the NBA coming to the state and the name "Oklahoma City" being part of the team's name. As though Tulsa did something to make that happen. As though Tulsa voters were part of Okc's self-imposed sales tax vote to improve the Ford Center and pay for a practice facility. As though members of Tulsa's "deep pocket" community paid any part of PBC's purchase of the Sonics or undertook such a venture on their own. As though the Legislature amended the Quality Jobs program (as small an item as this was in the process) without the entire state Legislature passing the amendment. For that small piece, Tulsa claims bad treatment for the team not being called the "Oklahoma" somethings.

When Tulsa voters, city government, and business interests find it possible to "come together" and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, I'll be glad. I do like Tulsa, even if Tulsa doesn't like "me."

As for the WNBA, Sherri Coale's success with OU and the new OSU coach's recent success in Stillwater, I think that many more are open to WNBA than were before ... I am, for one. But, whether enough are available in Oklahoma to make that a viable economic option, I haven't a clue. And as for Tulsa coming to host an NHL team, maybe that would work. I'm just glad that it did not happen here.

Does this rambling make any sense at all?

JWil
07-24-2008, 03:17 PM
That was the post of the eternity, Doug. Rock on.

jbrown84
07-24-2008, 03:23 PM
Question for you HOT ROD:

How many Storm games have you been to?

unconcerned
07-24-2008, 03:50 PM
I voted "No", but it's not an implication on Tulsa. I don't think Oklahoma could support a WNBA team period.

"All right, I'll ask: How come it took three seconds to euthanize Eight Belles, but the WNBA is starting Year 12?" -Bill Simmons

Patchy Proot
07-24-2008, 04:50 PM
JWil, I agree with you again. The WNBA is the perfect example of political correctness run amuck. If it was not subsidized by the NBA it would have folded a long time ago. I'm sorry folks, but having to pay to watch women play basketball is a waste of my entertainment dollars. The skill of the WNBA players might be, and I say might be, as good as an average male high school basketball team.

I love T town, but they missed the boat a long time ago. Taking a long snooze while thumbing your nose at its big brother down the turnpike bit Tulsa in the butt. It's too late now. They should go for an AFL team, because anything else at the major leauge level is simply unatainable for them. Tulsa should have made that big river they have a happening place. Why they didn't, well, who knows.

Just sayin......

chuckdiesel
07-25-2008, 12:37 AM
The WNBA is like watching paint dry. It's a mind-numbing assault on basketball. So yeah, Tulsa, knock yourselves out trying to get something nobody really wants in the first place.

OKCMallen
07-25-2008, 10:34 AM
Doug, awesome.

sgt. pepper
07-25-2008, 01:56 PM
good show doug. i always thought tulsa county should become the 51st state of the U.S., then tulsa can finally become a capitol of a state like it wants to be, instead of being the crime capitol of oklahoma. as far as the wnba, i think they should concentrate on the mls.

Pete
07-25-2008, 03:01 PM
I think Doug's post really shows why there will always be a lot of tension between OKC and Tulsa, especially among those that are over 40 (myself included).

It's easy to say both cities should be pulling for each other and it does happen to a certain extent, but so many from Tulsa were all too happy to distance themselves from the rest of the state and constantly try and claim some elitism.

And now that the worm has turned, many of them are bitter about it and many from OKC have a grudge to bear. I really, really try to be gracious to Tulsa when it comes to urban development and I do want them to improve their city, but a big part of me hopes OKC always stays ahead of them because I never, ever want to hear all that false superiority junk again.

As it stands now, people that live in and love OKC simply claim "our city is better". Tulsans, for the longest time (and there are still plenty now) said "WE are better." And that's going to be hard to get past any time soon.

Floyd
07-25-2008, 05:27 PM
Doug's post is clear and well written. It's also petty and shows a persecution complex.

What gets me is that everyone here apparently agrees. I just think it's weird. The animosity towards Tulsa is striking. People on this forum are literally defining OKC's success by its triumphs over Tulsa--witness the airport expansion thread, the NBA team name, hoping that Devon outbuilds the BOk Tower, etc.

What is it they say? Act like you've been there before. Stay classy, OKC.

Pete
07-25-2008, 06:24 PM
And you find the exact same type of thing on Tulsa forums.

There is a natural rivalry that is always going to exist for various reasons and Internet hyperbole aside, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

It's not like people from the respective cities don't get along in the real world. And the competition, generally speaking, is good for both towns.

ddavidson8
07-25-2008, 07:34 PM
I could care less if the WNBA never existed. Of course I agree that the only real reason it is on TV, much less radio, is that the NBA uses it as a tax write off.

My only concern with Tulsa getting a team is that they will call them the "Oklahoma _____" instead of the "Tulsa ______". Please leave the rest of Oklahoma out of the WNBA.

Doug Loudenback
07-25-2008, 07:59 PM
Doug's post is clear and well written. It's also petty and shows a persecution complex.

What gets me is that everyone here apparently agrees. I just think it's weird. The animosity towards Tulsa is striking. People on this forum are literally defining OKC's success by its triumphs over Tulsa--witness the airport expansion thread, the NBA team name, hoping that Devon outbuilds the BOk Tower, etc.

What is it they say? Act like you've been there before. Stay classy, OKC.
Floyd, I related my growing up experiences as they occurred, accurately. As far as "besting" Tulsa is concerned, I really don't care about that ... I'm quite content just being proud of my own city, without a comparison. I was very much hoping that Tulsa (county, as I understand it) would pass the River Tax. It is mind boggling to think of the good that probably would have done for the entire Tulsa metro.

But, if you think that my personal perceptions of how non-Tulsans have been and are viewed by lots of Tulsans are false (as in "not accurate"), you are badly mistaken, I think. Such notions have nothing to do with a sense of "persecution" or a persecution complex (whatever that is). It has to do with living with and through a long-time history of Tulsa's condescension and bad manners.

For example, consider your own reply. My post was not without sincere compliments to Tulsa. But, it seems to me that similar reciprocity comes from many Tulsans as though it as hard as having teeth being pulled to do it. I'll re-read your reply and see if I am mistaken in that regard.

Kerry
07-25-2008, 08:38 PM
I voted "No opinion." Had the option, "Don't care," been present, I'd have selected that...

...Does this rambling make any sense at all?

That was some authentic frontier jibberish.:)
http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/saddles/sounds/gibbersh.wav

Nawfside OKC
07-26-2008, 10:54 AM
I voted yes... if that's what they wanna do. I don't think it would be supported very well,but hey let um have at it.doesn't some of the money still come to the city since we are the capitol im not really sure how that works ?

Floyd
07-26-2008, 01:05 PM
Floyd, I related my growing up experiences as they occurred, accurately. As far as "besting" Tulsa is concerned, I really don't care about that ... I'm quite content just being proud of my own city, without a comparison. I was very much hoping that Tulsa (county, as I understand it) would pass the River Tax. It is mind boggling to think of the good that probably would have done for the entire Tulsa metro.

But, if you think that my personal perceptions of how non-Tulsans have been and are viewed by lots of Tulsans are false (as in "not accurate"), you are badly mistaken, I think. Such notions have nothing to do with a sense of "persecution" or a persecution complex (whatever that is). It has to do with living with and through a long-time history of Tulsa's condescension and bad manners.

For example, consider your own reply. My post was not without sincere compliments to Tulsa. But, it seems to me that similar reciprocity comes from many Tulsans as though it as hard as having teeth being pulled to do it. I'll re-read your reply and see if I am mistaken in that regard.

No, I thought your post was interesting and I don't doubt that your experiences were accurately conveyed. Your motivations are clear. The part I found petty is that you make your indifference to Tulsa personal:


When Tulsa voters, city government, and business interests find it possible to "come together" and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, I'll be glad. I do like Tulsa, even if Tulsa doesn't like "me."

I also disagree with the premise of your statement--both that Tulsans haven't "come together" and that Tulsa needs to "pull itself up by the bootstraps." What do you think the new Greenwood ballpark development is? Show me a metric or even solid anecdotes (not teenagers' perceptions) that say Tulsa is "down." It's an OKC myth used to buttress your self-congratulatory superiority. I'm not going to put OKC down--I like it. The city has a lot of cool tihngs to do and is about to have a lot more with the NBA showing up. I also acknowledge your grudging ("per se") compliments towards Tulsa. But I will point out where you're feeding misconceptions about the town.

Sorry you used to feel looked down on. Grow up and be an adult. Until you do, you're only adding to an ugly rivalry.

Doug Loudenback
07-26-2008, 04:56 PM
Sorry you used to feel looked down on. Grow up and be an adult. Until you do, you're only adding to an ugly rivalry.
I ain't never gonna grow up ... at least, I haven't at age 65 ... got my 1st FREE renewed driver's license last week, sort of a birthday present from the state, I guess. Your suggestion that I need to grow up, though, comes too late.

I'll make these additional comments to your message.

(1) I didn't "grudgingly" compliment Tulsa ... I've complimented Tulsa often, in this forum and elsewhere. My use of the term "per se" was synonymous with "by or in itself," or "without more," or, as I added, "as is." In other words, when I said, "I like Tulsa and think that it is a good city, per se, "as is," that is what I meant to say, and did. You added the "grudgingly" part, I didn't. "Per se" (as far as I'm aware) isn't used in the English language to connote a "barb" and I used the term correctly.

(2) I fail to see how I was being petty when I said that I'll be glad when voters, local government, and the business community come together and pull your city up by its bootstraps. I meant that. What that means, of course, is that despite what I said about not caring, I do, even if I use the "indifferent" mask as a learned self-protection ... note that I acknowledged that my words were, as I said, "an overstatement and represents an emotional response to enduring a lifetime of Tulsans telling me ...," etc. As to the essence of whether Tulsa, in these regards, has changed, I don't see many signs that Tulsa, as a whole, is much if any different about regarding non-Tulsans as something lesser than Tulsans. Maybe I'm wrong about that and were it possible to take an accurate poll of non-Tulsans on the point, maybe I'd be surprised to learn that most non-Tulsans disagree with what I said. But I doubt it.

(3) You may also mean to say, since I do not perceive that Tulsa has yet done that or has any need to do so, that I'm off base and, therefore, being petty. I'll save that for (5), below.

(4) As to what you call my "self-congratulatory superiority," there is only one area in which I think that Oklahoma Citians, as a whole, have demonstrated that a kernel of truth exists that we may actually be deserving of giving ourselves such adulatory praise, and I won't recount the "Maps" history here. You can read my observations about that topic here: Doug Dawgz Blog: The Three Amigos (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2008/07/three-amigos.html)

(5) If Tulsa has already done the same or you think that it has, I've missed that. If you think that Tulsa doesn't need to do that (and I have no wish to debate the point with you), I'll just leave it at this: we disagree. I know that many in Tulsa are trying to revitalize downtown, and that is good. The new arena is good ... why it was built below NBA or NHL capacity standards, I don't know. But it looks grand, without a doubt. A downtown ballpark will be great, too.

But it's difficult to avoid the significance of the Tulsa River vote. There were those here who argued against the March 4 MAPS sales tax extension vote, using much the same arguments that were vigorously made in Tulsa concerning your own River Tax sales tax vote. Our own March 4 vote was "MAPS For Millionaires," the opponents argued. In Tulsa, the opposition's mantra was much the same.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/NBA/tulsariverno2.jpg

There was a difference, though, and that was the outcome of the vote. See Doug Dawgz Blog: Can It Fail? (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2008/03/can-it-fail.html) for the analogy that I made there on March 1 about the vote before the March 4 vote.

So, you can call me petty, you can identify me as needing to grow up, and you can advance several other theses about me or my kin, but that won't help you persuade me that I've got it wrong, if that is your object. But, let me help out a little ... sometimes I AM petty. And my wife would definitely like it if I would grow up. But, as I said, that ain't gonna happen!

Thanks for being sorry that "I used to feel looked down on," but you're missing the point. I didn't just "feel" that way, we (I and my Okie kindred) were. And, as I said, I think that not that much has changed in that regard.

I also thank your for your well-received comments that you like Oklahoma City. I like Tulsa, too.

HOT ROD
07-27-2008, 03:02 AM
Doug's post is clear and well written. It's also petty and shows a persecution complex.

What gets me is that everyone here apparently agrees. I just think it's weird. The animosity towards Tulsa is striking. People on this forum are literally defining OKC's success by its triumphs over Tulsa--witness the airport expansion thread, the NBA team name, hoping that Devon outbuilds the BOk Tower, etc.

What is it they say? Act like you've been there before. Stay classy, OKC.

Floyd, tulsa people consistently compare everything they have/do to what OKC does or does not have. and what OKC does have, Tulsan's always try to lay claim that it is because of the capital and that somehow means Tulsan's paid for it.

OKC is the largest city - so it should be obvious that OKC has bigger and better and more venues. Instead of it being a Seattle Spokane relationship (where they support each other but OBVIOUSLY Seattle has more/larger stuff) - Tulsa was out to prove long ago that their oil money could buy them respect and set them apart from the state.

They stuck their nose up at OKC for decades - even using their political will against anything OKC unless there was pork for Tulsa. Yet OKC had enough of this crap - believed in itself, and is now the CLEAR top city in the state. And yet Tulsans are still griping.

I know it is Tulsa's inferiority complex and everything - because really it should be a complimentary relationship with OKC getting major league stuff and Tulsa getting minor - and the state supporting both cities (that's how it is here in Washington with Seattle/Spokane).

but for some reason, Tulsa wants the nation to think of it larger than it is - and this has been at the expense of OKC.

Roles reverse - and look whose crying.

HOT ROD
07-27-2008, 03:16 AM
Question for you HOT ROD:

How many Storm games have you been to?

none.


but if I were in OKC, I'd go to some. You guys have some girls with talent there in OU - and I think some of you really aren't looking at the potential of this league.

Is it major league? No. But - it is something entertaining that gives Girls something to look forward to professionally.

You have to remember, the league is young - and just now getting some quality women who can play. I'd watch Candace Parker any-day; she's one fine young woman!

And the girls from OU - I think the Storm should have come to OKC, it would have been a complete package; the OU girls could have come in - and it would have been rockin all year long (NBA then WNBA).

As for Tulsa, I've said this before - but I don't want Tulsa to get anything that competes with OKC's NBA team nor do I want them to get a major-league team while OKC having a minor league in the same sport. That just does not look right.

Sorry, No to the NHL or MLS or any of the Big 4 for Tulsa. Sorry. OKC is gunning for MLS and NHL would compete with OKC's NBA team (plus no way should OKC have the Blazers while Tul get NHL, sorry).

That leaves MLL, AFL, and WNBA - for the remaining 'major' sports. As for the AFL, if they got that - OKC would have to fold the YardDawgz. MLL could work - since Tulsa likes to be an Eastern city.

But I think WNBA would be the best. It would feed the OKC NBA team (since they could co-market) and would give Tulsa 'something' that OKC doesn't care about and that would not compete with OKC.

Otherwise, BoK would be a white elephant with regard to sports. The only other thing I could see, is it being used for music and college events.

As for the Staples Center comment, LA is a MUCH larger market than OKC - so Im sure they schedule events around the teams to make sure the venue gets used. Would the same thing happen to OKC?

I doubt it, when you have a facility 90 miles away sitting empty. No doubt, Tulsa would market themselves that way - hey, OKC's booked - we've got a facility and OKC could come up; you'd still get the state 'market'.

I think this is something they should go after - which will hit OKC during the NBA season more than you think. If even ONE concert that normally would go to OKC, instead goes up there due to the NBA (and the fact of national concert scheduling, they need to be in OK for a specific date) - well, that's a loss for OKC.

I dunno. I don't feel so anti-tulsa as some of you. I want them to get 'something'. But I dont want them to EVER compete with OKC on anything again.

Oh, Wichita is building an arena too. Sure, OKC's Ford Center is bigger and (will be) more luxurious than any in the region (save AArena), but OKC needs to make sure these smaller cities don't compete with it. Just my take.

HOT ROD
07-27-2008, 03:29 AM
Also, there's nothing wrong with wanting Devon to be the tallest in the state.

that's not necessarily even meant to address Tulsa in any way.

Oklahoma City is the largest and most prosperous city - so it should have the tallest skyscrapers. Right?

Seattle is in WA, Houston is in TX, LA is in CA, Chicago definitely is in IL, Den is in CO... Even Phoenix in AZ, Vegas in NV, Phila in PA, CLE in OH, and SLC in UT. In EVERY state (except OK), their largest city has that state's tallest building(s).

It doesn't mean those state's 2nd cities don't have skyscrapers either, just the largest city has the tallest.

I want OKC to join that club - and there's nothing wrong with that.

ddavidson8
07-27-2008, 08:32 PM
Can't we all just get along?

metro
07-28-2008, 07:34 AM
In regards to the NLL OKC was a serious contender for expansion about a year or so ago. I wonder if the NBA changed all that. I looked at the NLL website now and we're not on the list of consideration, but Dallas now is:

majorleaguelacrosse.com: MLL Expansion (http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/teams/mllexpansion/)

Floyd
07-28-2008, 08:13 AM
I ain't never gonna grow up ... at least, I haven't at age 65 ... got my 1st FREE renewed driver's license last week, sort of a birthday present from the state, I guess. Your suggestion that I need to grow up, though, comes too late.

I'll make these additional comments to your message. . . .


I like your good humor. Points are well taken. I can't respond to all, but I can speak to some.

I'll ignore Hot Rod's comments above except to use them as Exhibit A for when I talk about self-congratulatory superiority. Those sentiments are absurd but they're real. That attitude, coming from the state capital, is very dangerous for a city like Tulsa. It makes no sense to relegate the town to permanent second priority. It means that every time the state doles out things like the Native American Cultural Center or a new research hospital, Tulsa watches that development go straight to OKC. This state needs to be a partnership, not a hierarchy.

On the river vote: There were some cool components--specifically, the parks and trails. Otherwise, though, it was going to dump $100 million into the water by dredging out a channel through the center. It had "boondoggle" written all over it. This shouldn't sound like sour grapes--I voted for it--but the issues with Tulsa leadership are real. The plan shouldn't have ever gone to a vote. Further, many of the components of the plan--low water dams, expanded parks and perhaps even Tulsa Landing, are coming to fruition without the extra tax.

Tulsa is doing some very cool things with its Comprehensive plan. Downtown is continuing to develop in a way that is entrepreneur-driven, one block at a time. The arena hasn't even opened yet. There will be a ballpark in place in two years, along with the Mickey Mantle museum (sorry Steve Lackmeyer). There are plans in the works for a "starter line" rail from downtown to the West Bank, connecting a Broken Arrow/Jenks commuter system. And while OKC has a thriving downtown, Tulsa has a wonderful Midtown that too often gets overlooked by the school bus field trip crowd. Swan Lake, Woodward Park, Cherry Street and Brookside are lovely, mixed-use areas that sales tax can't buy.

So as for this rivalry--I can't speak to it, perhaps I'm just a touch too young (28, not 65). Having gone to OU and lived in both cities, I feel very Oklahoman, not just Tulsan. I think the more time people in both towns could spend visiting/living in the other, the more easy-going this constant feud would be.

metro
07-28-2008, 08:35 AM
Floyd, keep in mind HOT ROD is from Seattle (former Oklahoman), so his strong views aren't necessarily reflected by all here in the capital city of OKC.

On another note, how do you know if downtown Tulsa is getting the Mickey Mantle museum? Do you have a link with evidence? Please provide.

JWil
07-28-2008, 08:46 AM
Man, why would the Mantle family want to tie his legacy with a city that is drowning in its own arrogance? Shame.

Floyd
07-28-2008, 09:22 AM
Because the family is from the northeast part of the state, loves Tulsa, and Mantle had no natural ties to OKC.

It's not a done deal but word on the street is that the family and the Mayor discussed incorporating the museum into the new ballpark development. As you can see in the proposed site design, there's a placeholder set aside for a "possible baseball museum." Hm, wonder what that could be?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2008/200807_A1_a4park.jpg

EDIT: here's the link to the Tulsa World story Tulsa World: Area around stadium key, aide says (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080713_11_A1_spancl864930 )

JWil
07-28-2008, 09:25 AM
How quaint.

metro
07-28-2008, 10:21 AM
First off, I'm not sure why this thread isn't in the Tulsa section of the website instead of OKC Metro Area.

Floyd, the last article I read (see article at bottom of thread below), is that they are having funding problems and other objections to even getting the stadium done in downtown Tulsa. Secondly, there is a Mickey Mantles, Mantle's, Mickey Mantle Drive, and a Mickey Mantle statue in Bricktown PLUS it is more of a regional draw than downtown Tulsa, so I wouldn't say Bricktown is out of the running just yet.

http://www.okctalk.com/tulsa/13415-funds-approved-new-tulsa-drillers-ballpark.html

LIL_WAYNE_4_PREZIDENT08
07-28-2008, 10:42 AM
If Tulsa wants a WNBA team then let them have it. It will not affect OKC at all... We will be too busy supporting our NBA team. So if Tulsa wants WNBA... GO ahead Tulsa it will be nice to have stars like candace Parker and Lida Leslie playing in Tulsa every year or so..


But I'm gonna stay in OKC and watch players like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, D12, Andrew Bynum

But good luck Tulsa

Doug Loudenback
07-28-2008, 04:30 PM
I like your good humor. Points are well taken. I can't respond to all, but I can speak to some.
Good intentions accepted!

Maybe the Tulsa "midtown" area you had in mind is along E 15th St South, more or less east of the Tulsa County Bar Association on Boston. (I get crazy when trying to figure out Tulsa's street naming convention.) Yes, that's a very nice area with neat shops and some very good food. Another place that I like is the restored Ambassador Hotel ... the same people (Coury & Co) are the ones who bought the Colcord Building in Okc and turned it into a very nice downtown boutique hotel.

Like I said, I like Tulsa, "as is." That doesn't address the emotional issues which remain, but I do like Tulsa.