I live in St. Louis and something has struck me in the last couple of days, something that I have come to love about my real hometown of Oklahoma City, and I just thought I would share it. The people on this board subscribe to what I am going to say, I think, and I just want to encourage it.

St. Louis in the last week has lost the HQ of the Anheuser-Busch brewery as well as 2400 jobs at the Chrysler plant. There is so much civic hand-wringing going on up here about how we have "lost it." We're the "next Detroit." "Last one out, turn off the lights." The reality, of course, is not that. St. Louis has 20 Fortune 1000 companies, huge privately-held ones, the second largest concentration of financial jobs in the USA after Wall Street, one of the nation's 5 best hospital centers, dozens of biotech start-ups, etc. etc. etc. But nobody up here sees that. They are pessimistic to the core. Everything is about what we've lost, the side-effects of globilization, blah, blah, blah. It's depressing.

Contrast that to Oklahoma City, a town that quite frankly is not nearly as strong or diversified as St. Louis. But you would never know that. People in OKC that I know are convinced that things are getting better, that we are "joining the big leagues" and there is a real sense, and it's true, that OKC 10 years from now will be stronger than it is today and stronger still 10 years further down the road. If a positive, forward-thinking attitude is the first step towards success, OKC has got it. And I'm proud of that.

I save newspapers and last night it struck me, as I was filing away my St. Louis Post-Dispatch "Farewell to the King" headline, the last one I saved was from the DOK: "We're in the Big Leagues Now." I picked up the two papers and looked at them side to side and saw it, literally, in black-and-white.

This is not to paper over problems at home; everybody knows what they are and they are all over this board. And they have to be pointed out, and worked on. But the optimistic, can-do, forward thinking in OKC is something that St. Louis, and frankly, most of the country, would do very well to emulate and I just wanted to compliment everybody that is pushing OKC to the next level.

You know you are right. There is still a lot of cowtown talk and people being skeptical, I guess you will always have that. Some people will never be happy no matter where they are.

But as my friend and I were walking around downtown this past weekend, you could see it on people's faces. There was a change in the air. It felt like a big city, because the people were acting like it was a big city. The smell of optimism was thick and you could feel a sense of pride in the air. We had a conversation about it because it was so obvious.

Didn't Anheuser-Busch sell to an over seas company in hopes of bringing it to the global market?

Thanks for the perspective, stlokc.

If you'd drawn that comparison before MAPS(1), 15 years ago, it would not have been as you see it today. This has been an incredible 15 year journey, especially the last 10 since the Bricktown Ballpark was done, and hopefully the next 15 will be even better ... which, for me to say that, I guess makes your point. I would never have thought to say such a thing 15 years ago. Then, it wouldn't have made any sense at all ... except in the mind of Ron Norick. As you say, attitudes have changed remarkably.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ron Norick!

I completely agree.

I've said for a while now that one of OKC's biggest assets is the attitude and optimism of the people that live there.

It's a 180-degree change from just 20 years ago when I left. Now when I visit, just about everyone I know wants to tell me about all the great things that are happening in the Metro.

And it's contagious. Not only among the people that live in the area but to anyone that visits.

There is a general feeling that the city on the verge of a real break-through.

Didn't Anheuser-Busch sell to an over seas company in hopes of bringing it to the global market?

Well, it wasn't their choice to be bought. That overseas company saw a good opportunity to expand their global reach into the United States and engineered the takeover almost flawlessly.

I completely agree.

I've said for a while now that one of OKC's biggest assets is the attitude and optimism of the people that live there.

It's a 180-degree change from just 20 years ago when I left. Now when I visit, just about everyone I know wants to tell me about all the great things that are happening in the Metro.

And it's contagious. Not only among the people that live in the area but to anyone that visits.

There is a general feeling that the city on the verge of a real break-through.
My wife had a life-long friend from Portales, New Mexico, visit last week, and we took her on a few drives around town. Though they were raised in Seminole, the friend once lived in Okc in her post-high school years and eventually went to OCU. We took her there (as she asked), through downtown, Bricktown, Deep Deuce, the Medical Center area and Midtown which is south of where we live.

What was most interesting to me wasn't the friend's reaction (which bordered on astonishment), it was my wife's narrative ... she sounded like, well, ME! :dizzy: Amazing.

thanx stlokc for the encouraging words. i know it's not so, but it seems the whole country is against us for some reason and you brought a smile to my face. my wife bought us tickets to see mannheim steanroller several years ago in st. louis during Christmas. we had the best time there, really had a good time, will never forget it and would live to go back to st. louis. thanx again.

Well, it wasn't their choice to be bought. That overseas company saw a good opportunity to expand their global reach into the United States and engineered the takeover almost flawlessly.

Why are we selling our companies to foreign establishments? Does anyone see an uprise in now foreign owned companies? Does anyone, besides myself, have a problem with it?

That overseas company saw a good opportunity to expand their global reach into the United States and engineered the takeover almost flawlessly.

Just wait until the emails are made public. Sorry, I couldn't resist.


Why are we selling our companies to foreign establishments? Does anyone see an uprise in now foreign owned companies? Does anyone, besides myself, have a problem with it?

Well, first I think you need to know who "we" is. Second, "we" are selling because the buyer is paying more than "we" think the company is worth. If you think your stock is worth $50 a share and someone offers you $60 a share you would be crazy not to sell it. After all, you bought the stock to make money. I don't know anyone that says, "Hey Minneapolis needs another good paying job, I should buy $1000 worth of target stock."

I am far more concerned with the private equity firms buy up companies than I am one public company buying another. When a public company does well those dollars (or Euros) are distributed to the shareholders. When a private equity firm does well those dollars are distributed to the private equity shareholders. Just as T. Boone Pickens about that.

But as my friend and I were walking around downtown this past weekend, you could see it on people's faces. There was a change in the air. It felt like a big city, because the people were acting like it was a big city. The smell of optimism was thick and you could feel a sense of pride in the air. We had a conversation about it because it was so obvious.

i rode my bike downtown around sunset on sunday to take pictures and heck... i just love being downtown. anyways, i decided to ride thru bricktown and it was jumping! i was actually surprised at the amount of people out just kicking it. everyone was so happy too... it was awesome. I'm so glad i didn't move to the OC.

You make some very valid points about the people here in Oklahoma City. The excitement is great to watch and this city deserves it.

However, on the flip side of the coin in St. Louis, for that city to lose something like Anheuser-Busch must be devastating. That is a big deal. And 2400 jobs from the Chrysler plant is a serious blow - especially if you're one of the 2400 people.

While things are going great here, we shouldn't minimize those losses in St. Louis. They are big. After something like that double-whammy, it may be a bit much to ask that the people of St. Louis be happy about what they still have left. Your point about OKC is well-taken, though.

Solitude,
Losing AB as a corporate headquarters is a huge blow. They employ 6000 people - keep in mind, those are white collar HQ jobs, the majority of people making $80,000 or $100,000 or in some cases much, much more. InBev has said the North American HQ will stay here, so certain jobs will stay, but the company won't need 2 CIOs, 2 corporate counsels, 2 marketing departments, 2 financial operations, etc. Not to mention the St. Louis ad agencies (think of all those Bud ads), the blue-collar supporting jobs, the banks, the accounting firms that thrive on AB work. It's a big blow.

As for Chrysler, it was a minivan/SUV plant they had in St. Louis. Who buys minivans or SUVs with $4/gallon gas?

I don't want to minimize the losses for St. Louis. Think about every Budweiser commercial you've ever heard - how does it end - "Anheuser-Busch, St. Louis, Missouri." It's bad for the town's psychology.

OKC has always coveted big white collar corporate HQ, and we should. Thriving companies are awesome when times are good. But OKC may be in a better place with an employment mix that does not rely so much on huge corporations. Small companies adding 5 people, 10 people at a time may not make the news, but it might just be where the American economy is headed.

Unfortunately, U.S. cities that rely on a few very large old school employers all go through this at some point.

It's still amazes me that OKC could lose the GM plant completely as well as Kerr McGee and some others (two huge manufacturing facilities west of town went dark too) and be stronger than ever.

In the longer term, it's healthy for a city to be forced to diversify. We are increasingly a service-based economy so any place too reliant on manufacturing is going to suffer some pain if it hasn't already.

Pete-
I agree but the flipside is that deep-pocketed corporations do a lot more for a city than just provide jobs. Without Devon and Chesapeake, would OKC have the new NBA team? Or many other downtown renovations? Would social-service charities do as well? Would the zoo and the Omniplex get as many new exhibits? St. Louis got some kind of call center last week - we got several hundred jobs out of it - at $10 or $15 per hour. The service economy is not going to be a generous as a corporate or manufacturing economy. (Not to re-ignite that old argument or step on my own "optimism" argument) It's a new world and the trick is, adapt, without losing what you already have. Easier said than done.

Yes, but remember that CHK and Devon are very new to OKC and the corporate players are always changing.

Just 25 years ago, the big corporate sponsors in OKC were the banks (Liberty and First National), Kerr McGee and lots of other energy companies that are all pretty much goners. CHK, Devon and Sandridge weren't even around at that point.


I'm just saying the fortunes of all cities rise and fall with the local employers and economy. And that cities don't tend to stay down for long.

Milwaukee is the best possible correlation to St. Louis and it is absolutely thriving these days, even though almost all the breweries and many other manufacturers have left.

Pete, you are absolutely right. But to get back to my original point, STL is thriving at least as well as Milwaukee is (we are tied for 5th in the US in Fortune 500 HQ even without AB), I haven't done a real comparison of their economies, but it is the attitude of the people in the city that makes such a difference. In St. Louis, everybody is convinced the sky is falling when it isn't.

I would argue though that some cities do have long-term declines (say Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh) because of the basis of their economies. Another reason for OKC to move beyond energy, and quickly!

Yes, perception in many ways is reality, particularly when you need the citizens to support various initiatives in order to keep a community moving forward.

This is where OKC has everything going for it and I have no doubt MAPS 3 will receive the required support when that times comes.

Yes, perception in many ways is reality, particularly when you need the citizens to support various initiatives in order to keep a community moving forward.

This is where OKC has everything going for it and I have no doubt MAPS 3 will receive the required support when that times comes.

That really is true. But Phil "Enron" Gramm made an ass of himself last week saying the country was only in a "mental recession." Yeah, Phil, let's talk about IndyMac or Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac or the people losing their homes or the $4.00+ gas, the trillion dollar war-only deficit, the manufacturing jobs lost to "free trade," health care costs rising at a record rate, record consumer debt, inflation has returned.... how much more time do we have to list them all? Perception IS reality many times - but this time, nationally, Phil Gramm's remark was just a joke. We're not just "perceiving" things are bad - they're bad.

Pete, you are absolutely right. But to get back to my original point, STL is thriving at least as well as Milwaukee is (we are tied for 5th in the US in Fortune 500 HQ even without AB), I haven't done a real comparison of their economies, but it is the attitude of the people in the city that makes such a difference. In St. Louis, everybody is convinced the sky is falling when it isn't.

I would argue though that some cities do have long-term declines (say Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh) because of the basis of their economies. Another reason for OKC to move beyond energy, and quickly!


Great discussion! This is why I like this board. I do have one minor quibble though...Pittsburgh is actually done well since the implosion of the steel industry in the 60's and 70's. It has done a good job in attracting tech and service industries. I seem to remember that they rank really well in national surveys for overall business climate and livability.

St. Louis in the last week has lost the HQ of the Anheuser-Busch brewery

I do some business with people in New York who work with InBev. They told me everything was staying in St. Louis.

stlokc,

Sorry, I read your other post. I think most of the marketing stuff is going to stay in St. Louis, or at least that's what I was told. My New York guy was going to be moving to St. Louis.

InBev is bigger, but AB has more brand equity. InBev just bought a treasure, and I don't believe they're going to part with that powerful brand.

That said, you are probably right about many of those other white collar jobs.

STLOKC, I wholeheartedly agree with you; we expats can often provide a different prospective on things or see things that locals might can't.

I can tell you, that Seattle is also a very optimistic city like OKC has become, but here it is only surface. People here think good of themselves and the city because they have jobs working for some of the most desireable and well known companies in the nation AND the area has some of the most new wealth rich people.

However, that all fades fast once you pay your mortgage and bills and taxes (luckily we dont have income tax but our sales/gas tax is ridiculous). Also, sitting in traffic with no possible solution sucks too. But, the mountains and the sound, and the 'air' of Seattle is quite contageous.

But what I like about OKC, is despite what people have said about it being the dust bowl or backwater or imbred or hick or whatever (all of which are not true btw), Oklahoma City has a TRUE level of optimism that is deeper than just the surface. OKC doesn't have mountains or an ocean inlet like Seattle - yet OKC people seem to be just as proud of their city. OKC doesn't have the big name recognizable companies and large high-tech base (microsoft) like the Seattle area does - yet OKC people are JUST AS proud.

I think getting the NBA was the tip of the iceberg - it told OKC people that by believing in OKC and making it better; each resident has a stake in making OKC become the best it can be. It's not Seattle, or Saint Louis, or Chicago, or New York - but talking to people from OKC or seeing the city and its people, you'd think it was!

This is a true renaissance from years past - Oklahoma City is forever moving forward, you watch over time those old sayings/nicknames OKC dreads will disappear and apply rightfully so to places that deserve it. OKC has always been an oasis - but now the PEOPLE of OKC realize it and are making OKC even better.

Like I've always said, CONTINUE THE RENAISSANCE!

OKC has always been an oasis - but now the PEOPLE of OKC realize it..."


Very good, Hot Rod. I especially like what I put in the quote box - that's a good way to describe it.

I'm very confused. stlokc - do you live in St. Louis? I just shut the computer down and settled in with my newspapers. (I get the USA Today and The New York Times and yes, I like to read them in their deadwood version. A real newspaper.) The first story in my USA Today Money section is the Anheuser-Busch/InBev deal. I read two stories, both said that InBev had agreed to keep the corporate headquarters of the A-B divison, the North Americam headquarters, in St. Louis. It was feared they would take the jobs to Belgium.

All, he says, are part of the final deal to create Anheuser-Busch InBev, of which he'll be CEO. "I have to prove myself," Brito said in a phone interview. "The first proof of it was the name. It's a small thing, but it's the first thing."

He also agreed to keep A-B in St. Louis and keep the breweries open, though he did not rule out possible layoffs.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-07-14-anheuser-inbev-next_N.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-07-14-anheuser-inbev-next_N.htm)

The New York Times reports the same thing. One analyst of the industry is quoted as saying that most likely any work-force changes at the corporate level will be in the low hundreds. (Probably those duplicative positions you talked about.) And InBev says all breweries will remain in the USA at full capacity as demand is high.

"The new company will be based in Belgium, though St. Louis will serve as its North American headquarters and the global home for the Budweiser brand. InBev has said it doesn't plan to close Anheuser-Busch breweries, and its chief executive has played down the notion of any big changes."

As for job losses, most employees being laid off were already announced (1800+) before InBev bought A-B with most taking advantage of generous early retirement deals. Britt (InBev CEO) says keeping Budwesier and A-B NA headquarters in St. Louis was part of the deal.

I'm confused, stlokc, you wrote this dire post about 6000+ jobs lost, etc. as if it a done deal and they're leaving. All the news reports say otherwise. You should have said you were speculating about the distant future. What's the scoop?

Solitiude-I do live in St. Louis. Here's the deal: InBev has said they will keep the "North American" HQ in St. Louis, that's true. But that's only the North American HQ. The overall corporate HQ of the company will be in Belgium. That is where the global decision makers will be.

AB employs 6000 in St. Louis right now, we will not be losing all of those jobs. The brewery itself stays open, which is probably half of those jobs (the lower paid half) and there will of course be plenty of white collar jobs that will stay. For awhile. We may not lose more than a few hundred initially.

The reason St. Louis is scared about this is that these kinds of decisions will now be made elsewhere, out of the hands of people that are historically tied to this community. What is to keep InBev from deciding, 5 years from now, that Dallas or Chicago or Seattle is a better place for its North American HQ? Nothing. Unfortunately, STL has been through this many times. When American Airlines bought TWA (that was headquartered here), St. Louis was going to stay a "superhub." 5 years later, it's barely even a hub. When Macy's bought May Department Stores (Foleys, Lord & Taylor, Filene's, etc. which was headquartered here), St. Louis was going to be their Midwest HQ. 3 years later, they pulled out. Do we have Macy's stores? of course. Do we have the 1200 corporate jobs? No longer.

That's what people are scared of. Initially the job losses might be manageable, but it's setting the stage for what could happen down the road. Carlos Brito is saying all the right things right now, of course, he is trying to be a good guy. But who knows what happens later?

One final thing, and then I am going to get off this and start actually working. Ultimately, this isn't about jobs. 500 jobs, 1000 jobs, even 6000 jobs. STL can absorb those jobs. What this points to, and this ties into my original post, is a general sense among people in St. Louis that their historic economic position in this country is fading away, gradually, over time. The feeling is that this isn't the city it was a generation ago. And that's the real difference between OKC and STL. In STL, the feeling is that the best days are behind us and in OKC the feeling is that the best days are ahead of us. Both of those could be entirely false assumptions, but that was the point I was trying to make.

And you made it well, most of the people understand and appreciate the compliments you gave to our city, thanks stlokc!

I understand the concern in St. Louis. The reason I got back up to post after reading the papers was that your post was written as if the huge job loss was a done deal. I was confused.

Your point about the optimism in Oklahoma City is valid. If the national economy doesn't collapse, we'll continue with that same optimism - no doubt.