That the Harley Davidson world off Reno an Rockwell along with the Buffalo Wild Wings across the street would look good in LB.

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I guess not many people feel the same way I do

Lord I hope not.

They'd be better than the bass pro shop.

"This crap is better than this crap" isn't usually a very good reason, though. It's still crap.

I mean c'mon now. At least they're made of brick, an I think everyone agrees that DT needs a sports bar. With some upgrades BW3's would be a good one.

A person brave enough to open an independent sports bar would be better. Seeing how many chain restaurants we can fit within a square mile creates an illusion of success that eventually can't sustain itself.

Ok I got u there.

I dont know how many others there are but is Harley Davidson world also a chain?

That the Harley Davidson world off Reno an Rockwell along with the Buffalo Wild Wings across the street would look good in LB.

Who, what or where is LB? BW3?

Does DT stand for downtown?

Who, what or where is LB? BW3?

Does DT stand for downtown?


Lower Bricktown
Buffalo Wild Wings ( dont understand where the 3rd W comes in play )
yes

A person brave enough to open an independent sports bar would be better. Seeing how many chain restaurants we can fit within a square mile creates an illusion of success that eventually can't sustain itself.

Who cares if it's a chain as long as it's good?

I sure don't.


As for a HD store down there...I don't really care either way. But with the HUGE new one they're building in Moore, I doubt it'll happen.

Who cares if it's a chain as long as it's good?

I sure don't.


As for a HD store down there...I don't really care either way. But with the HUGE new one they're building in Moore, I doubt it'll happen.

Define "good." A restaurant that serves hot wings just the way you like them? Or a business run by management who cares about the community and is willing to participate and ensure the quality of said community? "Good" isn't clear enough, in my opinion, to justify it.

Buffalo Wild Wings ( dont understand where the 3rd W comes in play )

Buffalo Wild Wings

One wild, two wings. :bright_id

If they serve food that's good, if they provide me with a clean place to eat it, and if they provide good service...All at a reasonable cost? That's good enough to me. People get a bit too riled up about the whole "chain" thing. I'll become a repeat patron anywhere I think is doing it's job to bring me back. Exclusively frequenting local only joints is a bit myopic to me. There's a reason chains are chains...They do a good job of providing a service, and usually they're more consistant at it than local places. Prime example numero uno. Toby Keith's. That place has consistantly bad food and consistantly bad service. I'll not be going back again. Yet I've rarely had bad service or bad food at any Chili's. I may get beat on for saying this...but Cattleman's is horrible too. The last 3 times I've been there, I've gotten a bad steak. How does THAT happen? It's in the stockyards! I've also had waitstaff that pretty much just dropped the food in front of you and didn't come back at all. Sitting there trying to eat around funky spots in my steak with an empty tea glass in front of me is not acceptable in order to keep my money local.

And it isn't enough to justify what?

I never said a word about exclusively frequenting local only joints, that's your addition, and I'm not saying I would be against any chain ever entering Bricktown again, either. I'm saying that not all chains are created equal (just as independents aren't, either) and you should be very careful which chains go in.

So, "good" is not objective enough to justify a the establishment of a restaurant. "Good" doesn't narrow anything down. "Good" is different for each person.

While I would hardly call Toby Keith's a typical independent establishment, you are bound to get good and bad service from both chain and independents alike.

But again, are your criteria really enough to justify [insert whatever restaurant here]? For example, I used to volunteer at a specific homeless shelter every few weeks. We ate the same food we were serving. It actually tasted pretty good. The shelter was, in fact, clean, and of course the service was friendly (it was all volunteer), and the cost can't be beat [free]. Obviously I'm not being serious, here, but I'm illustrating the point that the basic criteria of good food, clean, low cost isn't necessarily enough to call the establishment a better choice.

As I've stated, quality is typically dictated by the establishment, NOT whether it is a chain or not. (Important distinction number 1) That's why Cattlemen's can be gross...but so can IHOP (there were eggs smeared on the windows last time I went in one...literally, and my "scrambled eggs" were runny enough to have just come out of the chicken). The opposite is true as well: Chili's may be "good" but so is Bob & Tony's Pizza (independent). Conclusion: food quality is independent of chain/not chain status and to say that chains are "usually more consistent" is heavily circumstantial to be considered a universally true statement.

That's why it's not a question of "goodness" but of what kind of establishment is more likely to contribute to, and mesh with, a kind of community which already exists.

Assumption 1: People go to Bricktown over other places for the unique feel of the place.
Assumption 2: People want this AND "good" food.

Conclusion: While we've established both chain and non-chains alike can provide "good" food, in example after example situations, independent establishments are more likely to have a dedicated clientele, and are more likely to willingly contribute to community causes and culture than are chains whose far-away corporate offices care about making their bottom line.

So why choose a "good" independent versus a "good" chain? Because independents survive on good service AND creating a positive community image, and fail without community support while chains are effectively "subsidized" (if you will) by their overall corporate earnings. Why does Full Circle Bookstore survive the existence of Barnes and Nobles nearby? Because an independent establishment (a "good" one) offers same quality with much more charm and care.

In other words, if you're choosing to eat in Bricktown, chances are you're looking for more than "good eatin' " but also to just enjoy the unique Bricktown atmosphere. The local Subway-gas station combo on the side of the highway could provide you with good food-clean place-low cost; I don't think that's just what people are looking for.

See? People get all riled on here when I say that I don't care if it's a chain.

You asserted that a locally owned bar would be better, and I disagree. I don't care who owns it for the most part. The question rarely crosses my mind most of the time.

If you want to compare philanthropic outputs...Chili's has raised/given over SEVEN MILLION bucks towards curing cancer. That's WAAAAAY more important to me than feeding the homeless or most other community causes. I'm not saying that they're not important (they are), but I can make up my own mind which local charities to donate my time and money to, and don't let that part of my life dictate where I'm going to eat or buy a motorcycle.

I'm not bagging on locally owned joints, I'm just saying that automatically assuming that they're better simply because they're local is faulty logic.

I'm not bagging on locally owned joints, I'm just saying that automatically assuming that they're better simply because they're local is faulty logic.
You didn't actually read my whole post did you? :P Because if you did, that would be a moot point.

And the homeless shelter reference was about debunking the clean-good food-cheap argument, not about any sort of philanthropy.

Regarding the tendencies of an establishment's management, I wasn't really speaking toward philanthropic output per se (though that's a plus), as I was toward a business's willingness to participate in the culture and distinctive quality of a specific neighborhood and/or community (i.e. Bricktown) and their tendency to contribute to said distinctive "feel". Local establishments are indeed, more likely to do that, as cited above.

You don't have to care whether it's locally owned or not, and again a chain isn't by default bad, but Bricktown has come about through the efforts of people who have tried very hard to make it what it is, and simply handing out spaces to the highest chain bidder is not exactly a recipe for success for what Bricktown has become/can be.

Buffalo Wild Wings

One wild, two wings.

Or, alternately, the third W stands for 'S'.

why bw3? according to several sources, the company was originally incorporated as "buffalo wild wings & weck."

-M

OKC Focus, another good example of a chain with poor, slow and inconsistent service is Braum's. The food may be good and better than McDonalds, but I have yet to find a fast Braums with consistent or even good service. According to most of the Braum's threads on this website, most seem to agree with me as well.

OKC Focus... the food may be good and better than...

Good or better food is always subjective.

I would rather eat any sandwich from McDonald's than eat one at Braum's.

Braum's ice cream, on the other hand, is something I like very much but someone may disagree with me and prefer Coldstone, which I don't care for.

OKC Focus, another good example of a chain with poor, slow and inconsistent service is Braum's. The food may be good and better than McDonalds, but I have yet to find a fast Braums with consistent or even good service. According to most of the Braum's threads on this website, most seem to agree with me as well.

There are quite a few noticable differences in buffalo wild wings and braums

OKC Focus, another good example of a chain with poor, slow and inconsistent service is Braum's. The food may be good and better than McDonalds, but I have yet to find a fast Braums with consistent or even good service. According to most of the Braum's threads on this website, most seem to agree with me as well.

I agree.

When we go on a trip we avoid chains unless they're unique to a certain area. Not that they're bad, but because we probably have one at home. Outback is Outback and Macy's is Macy's. Having local enterprises is a plus in any city.

I'll never understand the fun of driving to Kansas City to shop at Macy's and eat at Outback. But to go to a Royal's baseball game and eat Gate's or Bryants bbq...

There are quite a few noticable differences in buffalo wild wings and braums

THAT is an astute and sagacious observation.

There are quite a few noticable differences in buffalo wild wings and braums

In other news, the Pope is Catholic and bears of a variety of species were recently spotted defecating in wooded areas.

In other news, the Pope is Catholic and bears of a variety of species were recently spotted defecating in wooded areas.

Wow! The next thing we'll find out is that prunes are dried plums.

Al eschback (spelling) tried to open a sports bar in bricktown it lasted all of what 2-3 months? Bricktown is a very fickle enviroment to open a bar. How many clubs has it gone through over the past 4 years. I think I can name 10 since I use to go there. They are good ideas, but I dont think either company would try it. There needs to be more focus on a downtown supermarket than a harley world, or BWW.

Actually Lil_Wayne, I think that HD world would have been great in Bricktown. As it is, I think it's a bit of an odd location not being right on the interstate and behind other establishments.

A nice big HD World store in Bricktown would be a nice step toward the retail that we're looking for down there. Now, I know someone is going to say something like "who goes to bricktown to buy a motorcyle?" But HD World sells more than just cycles. Plus Bricktown is pretty popular with bikers. I like to ride down there when I can. Plus HD World isn't like your typical HD store, it's a bigger better version of that. This would have fit in perfectly in Bricktown.

Sadly a missed opportunity.:(

Al eschback (spelling) tried to open a sports bar in bricktown it lasted all of what 2-3 months? Bricktown is a very fickle enviroment to open a bar. How many clubs has it gone through over the past 4 years. I think I can name 10 since I use to go there. They are good ideas, but I dont think either company would try it. There needs to be more focus on a downtown supermarket than a harley world, or BWW.

The place where Al's was was too big. There have been several restaurants in that location and they've all gone north (I'm a southerner at heart) Da' Boat was the last one and it couldn't make it. When the city closed them down their bill for rent and utilities was over $40,000 for 3 months. That doesn't include taxes and wages. I know this because during the breaks at Maker's I saw the chained doors and the official reason posted on the door. I think it needs to be cut in half or wait for a business with deeeeeep pockets to put in a place.

I have never seen so much arrogance and retardation in a thread all at once in my life.

They'd be better than the bass pro shop.Well... maybe, maybe not. Would you agree with me when I say, there are quite a few noticable differences between Bass Pro Shops, Harley Davidson World, and Buffalo Wild Wings.

Well... maybe, maybe not. Would you agree with me when I say, there are quite a few noticable differences between Bass Pro Shops, Harley Davidson World, and Buffalo Wild Wings.

Yea but whats that got to do with anything?

Yea but whats that got to do with anything?Thats a very good question. Nothing..... but at least we agree.

If they serve food that's good, if they provide me with a clean place to eat it, and if they provide good service...All at a reasonable cost? That's good enough to me. People get a bit too riled up about the whole "chain" thing. I'll become a repeat patron anywhere I think is doing it's job to bring me back. Exclusively frequenting local only joints is a bit myopic to me. There's a reason chains are chains...They do a good job of providing a service, and usually they're more consistant at it than local places. Prime example numero uno. Toby Keith's. That place has consistantly bad food and consistantly bad service. I'll not be going back again. Yet I've rarely had bad service or bad food at any Chili's. I may get beat on for saying this...but Cattleman's is horrible too. The last 3 times I've been there, I've gotten a bad steak. How does THAT happen? It's in the stockyards! I've also had waitstaff that pretty much just dropped the food in front of you and didn't come back at all. Sitting there trying to eat around funky spots in my steak with an empty tea glass in front of me is not acceptable in order to keep my money local.

And it isn't enough to justify what?

You know part of me hates to say this, but I completely agree with everything you just said. And you know, if a Chili's or an Outback is owned by a local entrepreneur who employs locally and gives back to the community on top of everything else, how can you not support that?

We definitely want unique places in Bricktown. But they don't all have to be unique. The last time I was in Chicago I remember walking past many, many chains located on the first floor of many very old buildings....

The place where Al's was was too big. There have been several restaurants in that location and they've all gone north (I'm a southerner at heart) Da' Boat was the last one and it couldn't make it. When the city closed them down their bill for rent and utilities was over $40,000 for 3 months. That doesn't include taxes and wages. I know this because during the breaks at Maker's I saw the chained doors and the official reason posted on the door. I think it needs to be cut in half or wait for a business with deeeeeep pockets to put in a place.

That is consistently a major problem in Bricktown. Property owners are you reading this? Subdivide your freaking buildings. Not everything can be a gigantic warehouse.

You know part of me hates to say this, but I completely agree with everything you just said. And you know, if a Chili's or an Outback is owned by a local entrepreneur who employs locally and gives back to the community on top of everything else, how can you not support that?

We definitely want unique places in Bricktown. But they don't all have to be unique. The last time I was in Chicago I remember walking past many, many chains located on the first floor of many very old buildings....

I also agree with that.