I read this today at CNN.com : Expansive Oklahoma gets expensive to its drivers - Jun. 12, 2008 (http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/12/news/economy/cities_oil/index.htm?cnn=yes)

Residents used to 70-mile commutes turn to carpooling, public transport as gas hovers at $4 a gallon. Survey ranks 2 Oklahoma cities as vulnerable.

By Lara Moscrip, CNNMoney.com contributing writer
Last Updated: June 12, 2008: 7:28 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- For many people in Oklahoma, life is built around the car.

With several refineries in the region, years of cheap fuel have made it possible for many people to live far from their jobs.

Now the situation is unraveling.

Cindy LaBeff, 46, drives 70 miles a day from the small town of McLoud to her job at a data processing center in Oklahoma City.

Until a few months ago, she spent $40 on gas for her work week. These days it's $60 a work week - and $80 if she wants to go to church on the weekend.

She decided she can't afford the higher prices. With no public transportation in her area, she went online to form a carpool.

LaBeff has been ridesharing for a week now, and she hopes to add two new members to her car. "That way, it's just a dollar a gallon," she said.

LaBeff's family and friends in her 4,000-person town also have long commutes and high gas bills. She thinks something should be done.

"If our governor or mayor would help set up carpooling, if they would push it better, then people would think about it," she said. "But there has been nothing."

Due to its sheer size, public transportation is a tough prospect in Oklahoma City.

City Manager Jim Couch says that at 627 square miles, Oklahoma City has the third greatest land mass of all U.S. cities.

It also ranked last among 50 U.S. cities in a recent study on areas best able to cope with high oil prices.

The study, published by the economic development group Common Current, starts from the premise that cities with strong public transit systems will likely remain competitive in the face of soaring gas prices.

Best able to survive and thrive are the highly populated cities in which people can get by without cars: San Francisco, New York and Chicago ranked 1, 2 and 3, respectively.

Cities without public transportation infrastructure can be vulnerable, said Warren Karlenzig, Common Current's president.

In addition to public transportation, the survey put weight on factors like telecommuting and how many people ride a bike or walked to work. Lesser factors included urban sprawl, the use of heating oil and the carpool rate.

Karlenzig said that while nearly 55% of New Yorkers take public transit, the rate in Oklahoma is closer to 2%.

Oklahoma City's Couch said improving public transportation is a priority.

The city is several years into a study of a rail transit system in the hopes of attracting federal money for it.

Any results are years away, but "we're making a lot of progress," Couch said.

He also said the city is looking into providing bus service to a major manufacturing distribution center on the west side of town whose employees are finding it harder to afford the drive to work.

High gas prices are also causing an increase in demand for public transport in neighboring Tulsa, Okla. Tulsa ranked second to last in the Common Cause study.

Tulsa transit manager Bill Cartwright said urban professionals, who rarely rode the bus before, are now among his customers.

"You've got people coming out of the woodwork, screaming for more bus service. We get calls and emails daily," said Cartwright.

Common Current's Karlenzig thinks public transportation is a benefit more and more people will come to appreciate.

"It's a lifeline for all citizens now, not just lower income citizens," he said. To top of page

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I know that in our neighborhood, we have been promised bike lanes for months - maybe years. We are a defined bike route through our city and still do not have these lanes.

It is a bit scary that we are not prepared..

..be bold

Keep the emails and calls to COPTA, ACOG and ODOT daily folks. We can make at least a small dent in the mindset of the authorities who control our public transit.

I don't understand how the government is supposed to set up carpools. Whatever.

The rest.. yeah, Nobel Prize.

Maybe it is not as much "setting up" carpool but rather encouraging and advertising.

I have no idea what there is to do but to try and change a culture that is very car crutched. I don't know how that is supposed to work or how it should be done.

What I love is how all the answers to our current crisis are years in the future. I guess it won't matter by then. No one will need gas for their cars because no one will own cars. In fact no one will need them because we'll all be homeless and jobless anyway, since we couldn't afford the gas to get to our jobs.

no one will own cars.That's the way it was once not so long ago.

yes once again just when oklahoma is making progress in some areas around town.,
we get this bomb. tulsa is 49th and okc it 50th in 50 Best and worst-ranked cities to weather an oil crisis, per that cnn report.

Mick corrnet needs to wake up and the state legislature needs to wake up and get on the ball with some public transit .

Oh but according to Shane Jett we are the oil capital of the usa. it all started here, so lets build that dumb azz Oil derrick iconic tower.
why dont we think about doing something for the people that live here instead of trying to create a tourist attraction.

I say take that $100 million dollars that you would waste on that damn thing for out of state tourists, and put it into some public transit system for oklahomans.


It sickens me to see along I 35 that there are more and more new car lots being built. the Marc Heitz in norman Is an eye sore, and nissan has a new one north up by tecumseh road. For god s sake how many car lots do we need?

We re going to be the car lot and beer joint capitol of the usa if we keep this up.

I still believe we're better off with careful planning rather than just jumping into public transportation without good data. Buses are an exception, as their routes can be changed easily. If we had reliable bus service, with gas prices as they are, there would start to be an increase in ridership.

What happened to the bus stop plans that were being discussed? I hate to see people sitting on the ground waiting for the bus. That is ridiculous when simple, nice stops that offer some weather protection are not that expensive.

In light of the fact that it will take years to come up with anything other than buses for public transportation, people also need to be considering fuel efficient cars when they make their next purchase. Small and fuel efficient needs to become cool. And people need to start thinking about living closer to work. The family ranch is all well and good, but not when it's 20 miles from work.

What does a proposed oil derrick and a new Nissan dealership at I-35 and Tecumseh Rd have any sort of relevance to a post about carpooling?

senator inhofe has got to go! wasn't it he that abandoned attempts to obtain federal funding for rail transit in okc some years ago? if it weren't for him, oklahoma city might have actually had some sort orf rail transit by now. i just wanted to take this opportunity, now that gas is over $4 a gallon, to say THANK YOU senator inhofe for a job so well done! he completely dropped the ball on mass transit in okc while supporting a light rail system in salt lake city.

Inhofe needs to go for a lot of reasons.

I am tired of hearing crying about cars and the cost of gas. Car ownership is a luxury in this country. I am not saying this because I am rich millionaire. I am a working class Joe like many people are in this country.

Sure, I cringe everytime the pump inches closer and closer to $100 everytime I fill up. After I cringe, I remember I chose the vehicle I am driving. Nobody forced me to buy it therefore, I am partly responsible for what it costs for gas.

I do not think people need to be forced to drive soda cans, carpool or ride mass transit. I do think people need to be reminded to conserve if they do not like the idea of spending so much money at the pump.


These simple steps will curve the gas consumption in this country.

1. Fill up and use an entire tank, stop going to the gas station to top off.

2. Run your errands during your commute to and from work.

3. Plan your fuel usage.

3. Treat your gasoline the same way you do your electricity.

4. Move closer to work or find a job closer to home.

5. Raise the driving age to 18. Teenagers are the world's worst at wasting gasoline.


Overall, we have to remember this is America we are the product of our own decisions. The government and large corporations only have a minor role in our daily lives. We all control our final destiny.

If you wait on somebody else to solve your problems you will never be happy nor, will you become anything successful.

I'm going to sell my car and get a horse.

I'm going to sell my car and get a horse.I bet you haven't owned a horse.

senator inhofe has got to go! wasn't it he that abandoned attempts to obtain federal funding for rail transit in okc some years ago? if it weren't for him, oklahoma city might have actually had some sort orf rail transit by now. i just wanted to take this opportunity, now that gas is over $4 a gallon, to say THANK YOU senator inhofe for a job so well done! he completely dropped the ball on mass transit in okc while supporting a light rail system in salt lake city.

That was Istook, not Inhofe. Istook is thankfully out now. But Inhofe needs to go too.

To think we'll never make it to flying cars, sad :( Still, I take the amtrak to ft worth all the time. I think some rail around OKC would be pretty awesome. I just enjoy having other people doing the driving for me :D

I live in far south Moore on the east side of I-35 and commute to Rockwell and Hefner every morning....Doubt there are very many other people stupid enough to make that drive so I'm thinking I'm outta luck on the ole carpool plan

I would have to be completely broke to even contemplate carpooling anyway...Commute to and from work is my alone time where I can listen to my god awful music and freely pick my nose in the rearview mirror...Only reason I tint my windows :tiphat:

1. Fill up and use an entire tank, stop going to the gas station to top off.

Not really a wise idea. It is best not to let a tank to go low past half, because gas is lost more quickly. I try to fill up when the tank gets to half, so the gas will last longer. I've noticed when it is past half down and/or near empty, gas mileage goes down.

I don't understand how the government is supposed to set up carpools. Whatever.

In the Washington DC metro area the government has programs set up to set up carpools. I am not sure exactly how it works because I haven't participated but a lot of people use it. I think it probably has to do with building a data base of people who are going the same direction and are willing to car pool. Sort of commuter dating site.

In the Washington DC metro area the government has programs set up to set up carpools. I am not sure exactly how it works because I haven't participated but a lot of people use it. I think it probably has to do with building a data base of people who are going the same direction and are willing to car pool. Sort of commuter dating site.

I think this is more related to those employees who actually work in specific sectors of the government, or in particular government buildings. So, in that capacity, it's not unlike any other company trying to set up carpools or encourage carpooling for its employees.

My husband used to work in the Pentagon, and they had all kinds of carpool "pools" and rideshare programs for employees who lives in various parts of the D.C./Baltimore/Virginia area.

In the D.C. area in general, one of the most popular "rideshare" systems is the "slug" system. It's more or less organized hitchhiking. A driver wanting to fill his/her car up with other passengers in order to get into the HOV lane will stop at certain locations (I think they were rail depots) and pick up people (aka "slugs") who were standing in the so-called "slugline."

My husband "slugged" all the time. It's not a formal carpool because you might slug every working day out of the year and never be picked up by the same person twice.

The advantages to the driver is that with slugs they could then drive in the HOV lanes, and the advantage to the slugs is they got a free commute into D.C. proper.

My husband said that coming in from Virginia on the highways was the worst traffic he'd ever seen. A 2-hour commute to drive 30-40 miles is not uncommon.

In the Washington DC metro area the government has programs set up to set up carpools. I am not sure exactly how it works because I haven't participated but a lot of people use it. I think it probably has to do with building a data base of people who are going the same direction and are willing to car pool. Sort of commuter dating site.

There are some websites here that you can setup carpools as well. I don't know the names of them since my commute is 4 blocks. I was reading an article in one of the local papers the other day and it was talking about a group that commuted to OKC from McCloud and other groups that found their carpool mates online. I imagine if one was interested, they could do a Google and in a few seconds find a carpooling site for Central Oklahoma.

I bet you haven't owned a horse.I have owned many horses. It typically costs about $300 a month per "riding" horse for feed, farrier and vet supplies. $300 for unlimited mileage doesn't sound that bad when you consider you also won't have to pay for tags, insurance, tires or oil changes. ;)

How much is the shoe changes? lol

Not really a wise idea. It is best not to let a tank to go low past half, because gas is lost more quickly. I try to fill up when the tank gets to half, so the gas will last longer. I've noticed when it is past half down and/or near empty, gas mileage goes down.
Can you explain your reasoning behind this? I've heard others say something similar, but I'm not buying it. It seems that with a full tank your car is heavier and would use more gas than at 1/2 full (assuming all the other factors are the same). Fuel gauges are not a good indicator when factoring in your miles/gallon. When I fill up it stays on F for a long time, but it goes down more quickly after it gets below 1/2 tank, but this is because of the way the sensor works, not a difference in fuel usage.
My fuel economy doesn't change drastically either way - roughly 18mpg overall (going by the "average mpg" display in my vehicle).

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Kenosha, Wisconsin (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/kenosha/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Dallas, Texas/McKinney Avenue Transit Authority (MATA) (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/dallas/dallas-mata.html)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Fort Collins, Colorado (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/fortcollins/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Fort Smith, Arkansas (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/fortsmith/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Little Rock, Arkansas (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/littlerock/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Memphis, Tennessee (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/memphis/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/San Francisco Bay Area, California/The MUNI Streetcar System (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/sf/muni-streetcar.html)

In cities as diverse as Kenosha, Dallas, Memphis, Little Rock and San Francisco, vintage trolleys are running again. Some are running on historic trolley tracks simply uncovered from layers of asphalt from years of disuse and pressed back into service.

This is eminently doable -- but for the hard heads obstructing reasonable transit development using existing and readily available resources.

More than simply functional, however, it would be a historic and immensely pleasant return to what was lost to GM, Standard Oil, Firestone Tire and blind leadership in 1946.

Just a thought for the "painful car culture..."

TOM ELMORE
NATI - Solutions to the Nation's Transportation Problems (http://www.advancedtransport.org)

Spam again.

Not really a wise idea. It is best not to let a tank to go low past half, because gas is lost more quickly. I try to fill up when the tank gets to half, so the gas will last longer. I've noticed when it is past half down and/or near empty, gas mileage goes down.


True... however, your still driving up the price of gas for everyone else.

If everybody bought milk or eggs everyday (regardless if they needed them or not) the price of milk and eggs would skyrocket. High prices are often used as a tool to slow down the consumption of available supply.

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Kenosha, Wisconsin (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/kenosha/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Dallas, Texas/McKinney Avenue Transit Authority (MATA) (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/dallas/dallas-mata.html)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Fort Collins, Colorado (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/fortcollins/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Fort Smith, Arkansas (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/fortsmith/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Little Rock, Arkansas (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/littlerock/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/Memphis, Tennessee (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/memphis/)

world.nycsubway.org/United States/San Francisco Bay Area, California/The MUNI Streetcar System (http://world.nycsubway.org/us/sf/muni-streetcar.html)

In cities as diverse as Kenosha, Dallas, Memphis, Little Rock and San Francisco, vintage trolleys are running again. Some are running on historic trolley tracks simply uncovered from layers of asphalt from years of disuse and pressed back into service.

This is eminently doable -- but for the hard heads obstructing reasonable transit development using existing and readily available resources.

More than simply functional, however, it would be a historic and immensely pleasant return to what was lost to GM, Standard Oil, Firestone Tire and blind leadership in 1946.

Just a thought for the "painful car culture..."

TOM ELMORE
NATI - Solutions to the Nation's Transportation Problems (http://www.advancedtransport.org)

BLA BLA BLA... We hear you Tom. OKC Needs rail service.

Rail in OKC= Millions for Tommy Boy courtesy of the taxpayers.

No Rail in OKC= Tommy Boy will have to actually go out and earn an honest living just like the majority of us taxpayers have to do every day.

Can you explain your reasoning behind this? I've heard others say something similar, but I'm not buying it. It seems that with a full tank your car is heavier and would use more gas than at 1/2 full (assuming all the other factors are the same). Fuel gauges are not a good indicator when factoring in your miles/gallon. When I fill up it stays on F for a long time, but it goes down more quickly after it gets below 1/2 tank, but this is because of the way the sensor works, not a difference in fuel usage.
My fuel economy doesn't change drastically either way - roughly 18mpg overall (going by the "average mpg" display in my vehicle).

X2...Gasoline weighs in at around 6 lbs per gallon. That's 60 lbs for 10 gallons. 60 lbs in added weight doesn't sound like much, but it makes a slight difference.

The only reason I can think of to keep your tank from running down close to empty is the fact that most fuel pumps are in the tank these days, and they stay cool by being submerged in the gas. Run it dry too often and the fuel pump gets hot, reducing it's service life.

Personally, I fill up when it's convenient. All the bunk floating around about filling up in the mornings or when you're still above 1/2 tank, etc...Is just that. Bunk.

If you REALLY want to conserve gas. Drive less. If you want your car to get better mileage, drive it like there's a raw egg under your foot. You'd be AMAZED at how much better your mileage gets if your tach never crosses 2,000 RPM and your speedo doesn't see the big side of 60.

And I will save money by not having to keep replacing my back tires :)

True... however, your still driving up the price of gas for everyone else.

If everybody bought milk or eggs everyday (regardless if they needed them or not) the price of milk and eggs would skyrocket. High prices are often used as a tool to slow down the consumption of available supply.

That's not exactly how supply and demand works.

This makes me think of that suggestion that everyone skip buying gas for a day..."that'll teach 'em." And then everyone fills up the day before or the day after. If you didn't actually park your car for the day, you did nothing but rearrange the day the money changed hands. In order for supply and demand to affect prices, the actual amount of consumption has to change. The amount you use has to go up or down to affect price.

Changing your buying habits doesn't necessarily change your consumption. In fact, if buying gas when you're at half a tank slows down the rate of gas usage, you're not driving up the price of gas by buying more, you're actually buying less gas, just more frequently. If you bought milk or eggs every day whether you needed them or not, that wouldn't make sense and you'd just end up with a stockpile. Eventually, they'd go bad. You can't really do that with gas because you have finite storage capacity for that gas. And you probably wouldn't do that with your milk or eggs either because eventually you'd come to your senses, stop buying, and just use what you had. And then you'd change the amount you bought each day so that you only had on hand what you actually needed. So now you haven't changed the quantity you buy, only the frequency with which you buy it. You still buy the same dozen eggs, but maybe you buy 2 a day over a period of 6 days instead of a dozen at a time to cover the whole week. (Okay, I know our grocery stores don't sell this way anymore, but humor me...)

You only drive up prices when you buy more than you need (thus stockpiling it) or you buy and consume more than you were before. Buying the same amount at more frequent intervals does nothing to the price because nothing has changed.

Speaking of stockpiling...I bet that if we made commodity traders/futures guys actually TAKE POSSESSION of what they're buying before they're allowed to sell it...A whole LOT of what dictates the price of a barrel of oil would become scads more transparent. That's because there would be about 200 people buying them instead of 400,000. Yes, I pulled those numbers out of my wazoo kazoo.

I'd like to buy some cow manure futures and have delivery sent to ___.

Speaking of stockpiling...I bet that if we made commodity traders/futures guys actually TAKE POSSESSION of what they're buying before they're allowed to sell it...A whole LOT of what dictates the price of a barrel of oil would become scads more transparent. That's because there would be about 200 people buying them instead of 400,000. Yes, I pulled those numbers out of my wazoo kazoo.

Is that where you're thinking they'll store their commodities too?

While the argument could be made that the emanations from my posterior might power the world's power needs until Buck Rogers shows up, I'm not that philanthropic. My a$$ would cost you more than oil.

Here's a novel idea: the government should give tax breaks to employers who let their employees stay home and telecommute. It's better for the employee, it's better for gas prices, and it's better for the environment.

The condition of public transit in OKC is pathetic. I know people love their cars and get very agitated with the idea of not pulling up to the front door of every place they go... but that attitude and lifestyle is good for noone. No major city, OKC included, should require its residents to own an automibile to survive. The people of Oklahoma City have been given an enormous disservice with such gross lack of public transit. If this city wants to continue its success it had better shape up and wake up by giving its residents more options... otherwise the recent success we've experienced will wither and fade back to the 3rd rate status the city enjoyed back in the 80's. The era of the automobile is over as we knew it, it is now a luxury and we will catch up or be left behind.

I'm really agreeing with this downtown. I'm landing on the side of preserving Union Station and running light rail alongside our highways, and improving our bus system. I'm looking at not only the price of fuel which is expected I heard somewhere to reach $10/gal by 2012.. but also the rising cost of everything else that will occur and is already occuring because of it. We need alternatives. Maybe not everyone who reads this does, but I'm thinking alot of people will. I would use it. I've recently taken to walking to work when I can - all four blocks. Feels good.

Oh good Jesus... the city doesn't owe us a ride. Seriously? I'm all about OKC having a viable public transit option... but they don't owe us that. At the end of the day, each and every individual has a choice and they can choose to ride the bus for cheap and get anywhere in OKC within five hours... or buck up and pay for the gas and get to Midwest City in under 20 minutes.

Now, I hate gas prices right now. I think we're in a false bubble and gas is an allowed collusion market. But I don't expect OKC to owe me a ride anywhere. That's just a little too socialistic for my tastes.

I'm gonna drive until I can't afford it anymore. And when that comes, the prices will have shot up so fast that we'll probably be under a lot of civil strife and not going to work or whatever anyway.

What OKC needs to do is study closely what St. Louis did with its MetroLink. That is a great setup and something along those lines would be ideal.

I disagree JWil... A city is a system and it must compete with other cities to survive. Transportation is a vital part of that system and cities with the most transit options will be stronger. There are many people who could not afford to drive before the high gas prices and many of them already get around on the pathetic bus system in OKC. If you want a city to grow and thrive... long-term... you have to move people around. (all of them). As far as the city not owing you a ride... the same could be argued of roads and highways... why should government money be spent building roads for you to drive on? Equal money should be spent for people who do not wish to drive or cannot afford to.

I disagree JWil... A city is a system and it must compete with other cities to survive. Transportation is a vital part of that system and cities with the most transit options will be stronger. There are many people who could not afford to drive before the high gas prices and many of them already get around on the pathetic bus system in OKC. If you want a city to grow and thrive... long-term... you have to move people around. (all of them). As far as the city not owing you a ride... the same could be argued of roads and highways... why should government money be spent building roads for you to drive on? Equal money should be spent for people who do not wish to drive or cannot afford to.

I hear what you're saying there. But I guess my argument would be that roads/streets are integral city infrastructure. Public transit isn't. Every major city west of Chicago is facing the same pricey gas/lack of public transit issue so I doubt OKC not having a light rail is going to kill it. Would it be nice? Heck yeah it would. But think about those cities with great public transit. You could literally ride anywhere on those systems in those cities. Even the big cities back east and compacted enough that you just need to walk a few blocks to a stop. That will never happen in OKC except for those right next to the line. Like it or not, OKC is a city for cars and even a great light rail wouldn't change that. It would still need a huge park and ride system set up with it for it to work.

Whenever OKC goes the light rail route, they just need to keep in mind that it could never possibly saturate the entire city in terms of a service map. It'll have to be a spoke/hub setup (IMO) with one major N-S arm (Edmond-Norman), one major E-W arm (Yukon-MWC or El Reno-Shawnee), then probably spur routes through NW OKC and another to Mustang. That setup would be a really good base, but it'll never replace roads/cars for OKC.

So again, that's why I feel like public transit is a luxury and city roads are a necessity. What kind of city survives without roads?

I'm looking at not only the price of fuel which is expected I heard somewhere to reach $10/gal by 2012..
i doubt that. i fully expect a gas bust to happen and the prices to go back down.

I hear what you're saying there. But I guess my argument would be that roads/streets are integral city infrastructure. Public transit isn't. Every major city west of Chicago is facing the same pricey gas/lack of public transit issue so I doubt OKC not having a light rail is going to kill it. Would it be nice? Heck yeah it would. But think about those cities with great public transit. You could literally ride anywhere on those systems in those cities. Even the big cities back east and compacted enough that you just need to walk a few blocks to a stop. That will never happen in OKC except for those right next to the line. Like it or not, OKC is a city for cars and even a great light rail wouldn't change that. It would still need a huge park and ride system set up with it for it to work.

Whenever OKC goes the light rail route, they just need to keep in mind that it could never possibly saturate the entire city in terms of a service map. It'll have to be a spoke/hub setup (IMO) with one major N-S arm (Edmond-Norman), one major E-W arm (Yukon-MWC or El Reno-Shawnee), then probably spur routes through NW OKC and another to Mustang. That setup would be a really good base, but it'll never replace roads/cars for OKC.

So again, that's why I feel like public transit is a luxury and city roads are a necessity. What kind of city survives without roads?

I realize the limitations OKC would have with mass transit... but, I do believe at least certain areas of the city (especially the core) should provide the option of not even owning a vehicle. I agree with most of your concept with fairly limited services to outer-lying areas of the metro. Park and ride is the only way it could work in the outer burbs. The density you speak of with larger cities only happened with the addition of mass transit though... the same could happen here. I'm afraid too many people in OKC only see it's limitations and not it's possibilities. It's too bad about gas prices... but that's not the reason I support mass transit... I have used the subway back east for years and know for a fact that mass transit creates better and more exciting cities.

i would think that the cities out east are more dense due to the fact that they have been around a heck of a lot longer and those cities aren't spread out over 600 sq miles.

My son is pretty happy with the new car he bought a few months ago. He got a job that has him driving to several cities in Ok. and knew the gas would kill him. He did his research and decided on the Toyota Yaris and get great gas mileage. He gets ribbed by his co-workers and good ole boys that still drive SUV's and big Ole trucks. He just smiles and shakes his head. When we discover that a car is for transportation ONLY and not an extension of our "nether regions" or a sign of wealth will we finally get the car companies to make cars that are useful and efficient.

On another note...I work with many families that try to use the bus as they have no other transport...it is a nightmare....routes are poorly planned or nonexistent in many areas.

:sofa:

I can tell you onething, the majority of the population is not going to give up there SUV's and Pickups. They will bite the bulllet and adapt. Even if that means finding a better job, working a second job or cancelling the cable. They day the force people to give gas guzzlers will be the day you see this country fall into civil unrest. (Provided the country does not fall to civil unrest before then. The American people are mad as hell. Sooner or later people are going to snap and take the country back. That is another topic for another day.)

Only the sqeamish are running to the dealerships to buy cars that are nothing more than rollerskates and soda cans with motors.

I just cannot wait until those cars hit 100,000 miles. These same people crying about gas prices will be crying, Why, Why, Why won't Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or SmartCar return my calls? Why are they not fixing my car that is now just a huge driveway ornament? At the least the yard gnome has company.

It kind of reminds me of all the people that claim they used to be republicans or the fair-weather OU Sooner Fans.

I don't think I've ever met a fair weather OU fan.

And if you think Toyotas and Hondas only last to 100k miles, you're nuts.

Hell, even Chevrolets last a heck of a lot longer than that these days.

My Infiniti I30 has 111,000 miles; it should easily do another 111,000. And it got 26 mpg on a trip through Texas this month.

Mass transportation will be fun for the weekend excursion from the "burbs" to downtown OKC. However, if you've ever had to share airspace/personal space with anybody who is sick, smells bad, offends your sense of style, etc. you will quickly find out that the personal bubble we enjoy in the car does not carry over to mass transit.

I think Oklahomans often transfer the sense of personal space they experiance in the car to mass transit whether it be sub-conscious or otherwise.

That and the City of OKC isn't exactly thrilled at the possibility of making it easier to get to the outlying cities. Nope, mass transit may happen one day but it won't be the end all be all solution to transportation that many hope.

/lives in Norman

Only the sqeamish are running to the dealerships to buy cars that are nothing more than rollerskates and soda cans with motors.

I just cannot wait until those cars hit 100,000 miles. These same people crying about gas prices will be crying, Why, Why, Why won't Toyota, Honda, Hyundai or SmartCar return my calls? Why are they not fixing my car that is now just a huge driveway ornament? At the least the yard gnome has company.



I have a Toyota Prius that we purchased six years ago with over 130,000 miles on it, and it shows no sign of letting up or slowing down. There has been exactly one thing that has gone wrong with the car (and it was the steering column, not the Hybrid System or the engine) in all that time, and it was a warrantied item anyway. So, with 130K miles at an average of 47 mpg, it has allowed us to happily pass up a few more gas pumps over the years.

Oneforone, based on some of your statements above, it sounds like you might be one the folks that won't give up their SUV. No problem. Just remember to keep allocating more of your household income to getting to and from work... But when will it get to be too much? 30%? 50%? And then what to do?

i would think that the cities out east are more dense due to the fact that they have been around a heck of a lot longer and those cities aren't spread out over 600 sq miles.

Actually... Cities back east are VERY spread out. Take a look at a map and notice the urbanized zones. They are HUGE!! Yet nearly every bit of that space is covered by more than one form of mass transit. Every great city has good mass transit, that is true all over the world. People will give up their S.U.V.'s and trucks if they have trains they can rely on. This argument about "personal space" was brought up as well... that's ridiculous. If you are scared to be around other people you may need therapy? Mass transit is actually quite pleasant and you meet so many people you may have never met otherwise... it's a great social experience every day.

Actually... Cities back east are VERY spread out. Take a look at a map and notice the urbanized zones. They are HUGE!! Yet nearly every bit of that space is covered by more than one form of mass transit. Every great city has good mass transit, that is true all over the world. People will give up their S.U.V.'s and trucks if they have trains they can rely on. This argument about "personal space" was brought up as well... that's ridiculous. If you are scared to be around other people you may need therapy? Mass transit is actually quite pleasant and you meet so many people you may have never met otherwise... it's a great social experience every day.

Ride the Chicago EL or the NYC subway during peak time. You have no personal space...and it's great.

Talk about no personal space...I've ridden the rail in Japan.

Yeah...That's where the city has hired some rather large individuals to PUSH MORE PEOPLE ONTO THE TRAIN when it's already full. It's freakin' NUTS there sometimes.

I can tell you onething, the majority of the population is not going to give up there SUV's and Pickups. They will bite the bulllet and adapt. Even if that means finding a better job, working a second job or cancelling the cable. They day the force people to give gas guzzlers will be the day you see this country fall into civil unrest.

Only the sqeamish are running to the dealerships to buy cars that are nothing more than rollerskates and soda cans with motors.

I don't know why. I gave my SUV up five years ago and couldn't be happier, especially when it's time (infrequently) to buy gas. My husband is thrilled at the prospect of giving his up as well, when he falls far enough down on the waiting list to get his Prius. What I've found is that a car with a hatchback holds almost as much as an SUV, if you're not toting 4 to 5 people around. And how many of us are? I've gotten a loveseat and chair into my mini, and can pack it with about 14 bags of cypress mulch and/or small trees. Apparently you can get a bicycle into it, although I haven't tried that yet.

I hate seeing SUVs around town with one person in them. I think that if you've got a family of four to five, it's not unreasonable to have something like that to transport the family around. But, no one really needs two SUVs in a family. Up until now, when we've had the whole family home, we've used my husband's SUV if we're transporting everyone. Now that we're going to be empty nesters and non-SUV owners, when all the kids are home we'll take everyone in two cars instead of one. That will not be a frequent enough occurrence to justify that kind of gas mileage year round.

I hate seeing SUVs around town with one person in them. I think that if you've got a family of four to five, it's not unreasonable to have something like that to transport the family around. But, no one really needs two SUVs in a family. Up until now, when we've had the whole family home, we've used my husband's SUV if we're transporting everyone. Now that we're going to be empty nesters and non-SUV owners, when all the kids are home we'll take everyone in two cars instead of one. That will not be a frequent enough occurrence to justify that kind of gas mileage year round.



This is America where you have the freedome to drive whatever you want. Nobody has to justify the reason why they drive a particular car. I have the right to own an SUV if I choose to own one regardless of how many people I transport on a daily basis. It does not matter of how much you like it or hate.

Your standards and ideals for living stop at the person standing next to you. They have just as much right as you to do what they want. All that matters is that it does not infringe upon someone else's rights.

I think if people spent more time minding their business and less time telling others how to live, the world would be a better place.

Nobody is forcing their ideals on you, so stop freaking out.

Your standards and ideals for living stop at the person standing next to you. They have just as much right as you to do what they want. All that matters is that it does not infringe upon someone else's rights.

I think if people spent more time minding their business and less time telling others how to live, the world would be a better place.

*shrugs*

Tell that to the religious right.


*runs*

This is America where you have the freedom to drive whatever you want.

You probably already realize this is not an absolute right. To use an extreme example, you can't drive a used army tank around your neighborhood. On a more practical level, it is often illegal to drive a vehicle that is heavier than a street, or especially a bridge, was built to carry. There are limits on how and wide a vehicle can be.

I don't think we'll reach a point where it's illegal to drive a SUV, but there will certainly be fuel efficiency requirements that will make SUV's impossible to sell. By that time, market forces will have driven them off the road, anyway.

I saw a report a couple of days ago that lenders in some areas have quit trying to repossess SUVs because they already have more SUV repos than they can store or manage. Everyone is unloading them.

This is America where you have the freedome to drive whatever you want. Nobody has to justify the reason why they drive a particular car. I have the right to own an SUV if I choose to own one regardless of how many people I transport on a daily basis. It does not matter of how much you like it or hate.

Your standards and ideals for living stop at the person standing next to you. They have just as much right as you to do what they want. All that matters is that it does not infringe upon someone else's rights.

I think if people spent more time minding their business and less time telling others how to live, the world would be a better place.

Actually, I was just stating my opinion. I haven't don't anything to keep people from buying or driving SUVs. I haven't advocated making them illegal, lobbyied my congressman or even made snide comments to drivers of SUVs. Yes, if they want to spend the money to drive them, it's currently alright with me. I suspect that as gas prices go higher, the prices of SUVs will go lower and some people will buy them because the money they save buying an SUV will pay for the increased cost of the gas.

Of course, their driving an SUV will mean that we will ultimately have less fossil fuel available, and that might affect me. The fact that they release more air pollution into the atmosphere might end up affecting me as well. So, were I to choose to lobby for a tax on SUVs to help offset any negative effect they have on the environment, the cost of fuel or the availability of it, I believe it would be my constitutional right. It's fine to be a libertarian, but I believe that not infringing on others' rights assumes that their rights don't infringe on my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's possible that a car that uses more gas and is more polluting might. Not trying to be adversarial, just to provide food for thought.

Actually, I was just stating my opinion. I haven't don't anything to keep people from buying or driving SUVs. I haven't advocated making them illegal, lobbyied my congressman or even made snide comments to drivers of SUVs. Yes, if they want to spend the money to drive them, it's currently alright with me. I suspect that as gas prices go higher, the prices of SUVs will go lower and some people will buy them because the money they save buying an SUV will pay for the increased cost of the gas.

Of course, their driving an SUV will mean that we will ultimately have less fossil fuel available, and that might affect me. The fact that they release more air pollution into the atmosphere might end up affecting me as well. So, were I to choose to lobby for a tax on SUVs to help offset any negative effect they have on the environment, the cost of fuel or the availability of it, I believe it would be my constitutional right. It's fine to be a libertarian, but I believe that not infringing on others' rights assumes that their rights don't infringe on my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's possible that a car that uses more gas and is more polluting might. Not trying to be adversarial, just to provide food for thought.


Slippery slope. If one can rationalize another person's driving habits impacting them, where do you stop?

What about a Gattaca like society where we can screen for birth defects prior to birth? The social cost of you having your defective baby raises my insurance rates and costs my government more to take care of. Do you force someone to abort the child in the name of not impacting my pocket?

The fact is that living in a "free" society can and does come at a price. The threshold of an acceptable price is debatable. However the extent to which one has or doesn't have a "right" gives me great pause.