View Full Version : Downtown Trolley System



metro
06-10-2008, 07:41 AM
Riding on a downtown trolley would be nice
Daily Oklahoman
By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer

Now that downtown is becoming a true neighborhood with hundreds of apartments and condominiums opened the past couple of years, wouldn't it be great to have the Oklahoma Spirit trolleys run an expanded schedule of 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. weekdays, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. Saturdays, and from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Sundays?

OK, those are pretty specific operating hours. Indeed, that was the schedule with trolleys hitting stops every 10 minutes when the service was launched 10 years ago.

That same service is now a mish-mash of reduced service routes. One can travel an extended downtown "blue line” that traverses the Oklahoma City National Memorial & Museum and Bricktown and everything between. The loop doesn't begin until 10 a.m. and stops are now every 20 minutes. A red line serves lunchtime workers 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. weekdays with stops every 15 minutes.

As service declined, ridership also fell
Neither line makes it feasible for a downtown resident even to consider relying on shuttles as a way to get to and from work. And Sunday service? It's been dropped all together. The cuts have crept in gradually over the years, blamed invariably on tight budgets and increased costs.
And as the schedules have shrunk and waiting times expanded, ridership has dropped. At a recent meeting of Urban Neighbors, Mayor Mick Cornett was asked by a resident if MetroTransit's operation of the trolleys has been inept. He disagreed, but acknowledged some changes may be needed.

As the trolley routes have been whittled, the city has launched the Oklahoma River Cruisers as a means of public transit to meet a need that city officials admit doesn't exist yet.


What does city pay for boat service?
In a contract negotiated with the only company to bid for operations of the boats, the city pays Hornblower Marine Services $15,000 per month — and that's just the management fee. Hornblower also is reimbursed for operating expenses including wages, equipment, supplies, utilities and fuel. To date, since Hornblower was hired last fall, payments have totaled $307,000.
Jordan Associates is being paid to coordinate a print and broadcast campaign for the boat service, which is funded, partially, by $100,000 from the Oklahoma City Riverfront Redevelopment Authority, and $100,000 from the Central Oklahoma Transportation & Parking Authority.

Funding for all this includes $350,000 from the city's general fund.

Rick Cain, administrator of COTPA, presents the river cruisers as a way to "proactively” provide public transit along the waterway for a population and need that he believes will exist in future years. He points out the boats will eventually connect not just Bricktown but also the Native American Cultural Center and developments planned at the former downtown airpark with the hotel corridor at Meridian Avenue.

Maybe. The boats, however, currently duplicate the Orange trolley route — which also has the lowest ridership of any of the trolley routes.


Downtowners complain about promises
Meanwhile, downtowners say the promises made to them a decade ago aren't being met, even though average daily ridership on the downtown routes total 166 compared with 26 on the Meridian Avenue Orange route.
And it's the Meridian Avenue Orange route that is being expanded.

To ensure boat passengers can always take a trolley back downtown, Sunday service has been restored for the Orange line. And, oh yes, Cain is looking at expanding trolley service even further — with a possible express Orange route to eliminate a 20-minute tour of the Meridian hotel corridor that has been met with complaints from boat passengers just wanting a quick ride back to their cars.

metro
06-10-2008, 07:49 AM
The city better get it's act together and expand the downtown trolley system, it's pathetic. At the U.N. meeting where Mick dismissed there was a problem, that shows his complete ignorance to the situation. Being a suburbanite and politician, I completely am not surprised. If he and city leaders keep wanting to push for a denser downtown core and bigger convention business, we need better than a tier 1 city transportation system. There is NO reason why the city and COPTA shouldn't have expanded the routes to include ALL downtown housing developments, St. Anthony's, MidTown/Court Plaza area, NW 10th and Automobile Alley in the downtown loop.

Ash_Fox
06-10-2008, 08:10 AM
The public transportation downtown does need to be improved. It's pittiful.

Midtowner
06-10-2008, 08:39 AM
I gave the downtown trollies a chance once. The 20 minute window isn't even dependable. I guess you have to factor in that the driver (because there's only one on the route at any given time) takes breaks.

At this point, unless I'm just damned lucky, I can generally walk past the trolley stop closest to home to Bricktown faster than I could ride the trollley. If my feet are faster than the service, I'll just save my 25-cents.

centaurian
06-10-2008, 02:54 PM
Can anyone say Public transportation?
Other cities have been doing if for years. If you want people to get around down town, its going to take more than the novelty of the tourist trolly to make it work.
And it will definately take some funding. Is this nothing more than an attraction for visitors to ride, or are they seriously trying to create some public transportation downtown.

With all the housing going in downtown, is should be possible if someone (mick) gets behind it. I guess if it won't make millions of dollars, there is no support of any form of public transportation. With gas prices skyrocketing, its time someone gets on the ball.

wsucougz
06-10-2008, 03:30 PM
Looks like a bus to me. Let's build a real electric trolley system from Chesapeake, down Western, through Crown Heights on Shartel and all the way up Mesta Park(on parts of the old line on Shartel), through Midtown right by Plaza Court and on to Downtown and Bricktown to loop back around up Broadway and Robinson, through Jefferson Park, W. on 36th, by the Paseo, then all the way up Walker and back to Chesapeakeland.

This would service downtown, Bricktown, Midtown, A-alley, 23rd St(soon to be Tower Theater, etc), Paseo, Western ave. and the soon to be Chesapeake shopping universe, which is almost every main stop you would want to hit in the innercity area. Note: all of these enclaves happen to lie between the 100 and 1000 blocks with a maximum northern distance of 63 blocks(nw 63) - all within a perfect rectangular chunk of dirt.

mburlison
06-10-2008, 05:11 PM
The downtown trolley system is in bad shape. We used to give it a lot of business during lunch, go from north Robinson to Bricktown ... and one can live with a 10 minute variance one way or the other, giving sort of a 20 minute window --- but even that is a bad bet, we timed it several times where you were lucky to see the red line every 35 minutes. wow, I wonder why no one uses it. People will ride the heck out of that thing (from the downtown offices to the brick and back) if they know they can get it done within a reasonable lunch time period. If nothing else, ramp up the frequencies during lunch / it will pay off ! Not to mention some of the drivers have gone to 'surliness' school and done rather well.

Midtowner
06-10-2008, 05:28 PM
Public transportation is not meant to be directly profitable. I doubt there are very many public trans systems in the world which operate in the black.

andy157
06-10-2008, 05:36 PM
Public transportation is not meant to be directly profitable. I doubt there are very many public trans systems in the world which operate in the black.It appears that the public boating system aint doing to bad. Maybe thats why they can't properly fund the trolleys.

Midtowner
06-10-2008, 06:53 PM
It appears that the public boating system aint doing to bad. Maybe thats why they can't properly fund the trolleys.

Isn't the boating system private?

The purpose behind those boats is more entertainment than transportation.

metro
06-10-2008, 07:06 PM
The city is funding the boats pretty nicely. Read Steve's article.

Platemaker
06-10-2008, 08:23 PM
Looks like a bus to me. Let's build a real electric trolley system from Chesapeake, down Western, through Crown Heights on Shartel and all the way up Mesta Park(on parts of the old line on Shartel), through Midtown right by Plaza Court and on to Downtown and Bricktown to loop back around up Broadway and Robinson, through Jefferson Park, W. on 36th, by the Paseo, then all the way up Walker and back to Chesapeakeland.

This would service downtown, Bricktown, Midtown, A-alley, 23rd St(soon to be Tower Theater, etc), Paseo, Western ave. and the soon to be Chesapeake shopping universe, which is almost every main stop you would want to hit in the innercity area. Note: all of these enclaves happen to lie between the 100 and 1000 blocks with a maximum northern distance of 63 blocks(nw 63) - all within a perfect rectangular chunk of dirt.

There has been so much talk of commuter rail from Edmond to Norman (which at this time would be a waste of time IMO) but I've always thought OKC should start with streetcars. The neutral ground for streetcars already exists on so many of our streets.

Just for kicks I made this map of a streetcar system the line in red should be the first constructed Shartel - Classen Dr. - Hudson - Sheridan

If the whole thing was realized... most of central NW OKC would be within 5 blocks of a streetcar.
http://a806.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/126/l_5993d09818b52ce34fc70f229931cd75.jpg

andy157
06-10-2008, 08:50 PM
The city is funding the boats pretty nicely. Read Steve's article.Thank you metro, that was my point. I wonder just how much financial exposure Hornblower is on the hook for. My take on Steve's article is that the City, in one form or another, covers most, if not all of the operation cost, while Hornblower recovers all of the profits.

As always, Steve's articles are informative, and enlightening. Nevertheless, no longer does news such as this comes as a surprise, since deals of this nature have become the S.O.P. of our City management.

I wonder how many other hard working, risk taking businessmen/women would like to have all of the cost of operating their business, and the associated financial risk covered, and paid for with public funds.

wsucougz
06-10-2008, 09:40 PM
There has been so much talk of commuter rail from Edmond to Norman (which at this time would be a waste of time IMO) but I've always thought OKC should start with streetcars. The neutral ground for streetcars already exists on so many of our streets.

Just for kicks I made this map of a streetcar system the line in red should be the first constructed Shartel - Classen Dr. - Hudson - Sheridan

If the whole thing was realized... most of central NW OKC would be within 5 blocks of a streetcar.
http://a806.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/126/l_5993d09818b52ce34fc70f229931cd75.jpg

Nicely. Something like this would seriously get used and draw some major investment $'s.

dismayed
06-10-2008, 10:09 PM
Why stop at 9 p.m. on Saturdays when much of Bricktown is open until 2 a.m. Have the trolleys run until 2:30.

Tom Elmore
06-12-2008, 12:58 PM
No leadership? No vision? No recognition of what is going on in competitive cities all around us? No willingness to use our own assets, pronounced among the best in the nation by transit leaders in other cities?

And you're "shocked?"

TOM ELMORE