View Full Version : Will Rogers losing flights



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Jesseda
05-30-2008, 12:48 PM
I work for parking at the airport and from what I have been told, Will rogers will be losing a lot of flight very soon.. champion flights will be no more starting june 1st, also us airways will be leaving the oklahoma city will rogers airport, and recently united will be eleimating most of the flights out and to oklahoma city, now i hear today that express jet will be no longer in oklahoma city the last flights from express jets out and to oklahoma city will be at the end of november this year. So far a total of almost 20 percent of all daily flights will be elimated by years end. Is this a bad sign of things to come or what. hopefully I have been given wrong information but it is the talk amongst employees out here at the airport

OU Adonis
05-30-2008, 12:54 PM
I wonder why we are losing so many flights if that is the case?

sgt. pepper
05-30-2008, 12:56 PM
How can this be if OKC is in such a huge up swing?

Jesseda
05-30-2008, 12:59 PM
I do not know, I thought we where doing good since parking is always seems to be full and that we are building a new parking gargage that should be done fall of 2009, and the new bridges and roads they are building to makethe flow of traffic better. Today I was told the express jet will be stopping service, this is bad news because most of my family who flies here are from california and they love the non stop flights from san diego and from sacramento, I know that the planes are only half full now, my niece flew to and from just this past week and she said there was a lot of empty seats...

OKCMallen
05-30-2008, 01:32 PM
Our upswing doesn't make airplane fuel cheaper.

metro
05-30-2008, 01:33 PM
How can this be if OKC is in such a huge up swing?

because the industry overall is in serious trouble. OKC is not a large market compared to other markets. I imagine you'll see routes cut nationwide, OKC not being a huge tourism or business destination, can unfortunately afford to lose a few flights despite record attendance. That's just my guess though...

OKCTalker
05-30-2008, 01:35 PM
A decrease in supply doesn't mean a decrease in demand, although regrettably, it probably means an increase in fares.

jbrown84
05-30-2008, 01:43 PM
ExpressJet we knew of, but I haven't heard a thing about all those others.

OKCMallen
05-30-2008, 01:46 PM
A decrease in supply doesn't mean a decrease in demand, although regrettably, it probably means an increase in fares.

It does mean cutting less profitable routes so maybe they can keep fares more attractive and not completely alienate every customer due to air increases. It's much more complex than what you're indicating.

Ash_Fox
05-30-2008, 04:02 PM
I hope it all works out. My family flies all the time, my father a lot for work, and seeing those airlines/flights leave is slightly depressing.

soonerguru
05-30-2008, 05:44 PM
That would be a huge bummer if we were to lose the United service.

venture
05-31-2008, 12:17 AM
Champion closed down today after losing most of their charter contracts. Allegiant Air has been hired to replace them for MLT Worry Free.

ExpressJet is ending branded service in the next couple of months. Fuel costs are too high for them to make money. ExpressJet will continue to operate as a Continental Express and Delta Connection carrier and operate to OKC from Salt Lake, Newark, Houston, and Cleveland.

So far nothing specific out of American or United with their cutbacks. I wouldn't be shocked to see how lose a couple flights on American.

Needless to say...people aren't willing to pay higher fares that cover fuel costs, so airlines have to cut service to focus on only the high yeild passengers. So if you want cheap fares...kiss em good bye.

jbrown84
05-31-2008, 12:48 PM
Venture, do you think United and US Airways could really be pulling out of OKC completely?

chrisok
05-31-2008, 02:12 PM
I don't believe United would pull out of OKC. United does pretty well here. The Denver flights have been hurt a bit, but last I heard LAX and IAD are doing as well as was expected. Maybe we might lose some mainliner service on the Denver routes, but I can't see them leaving.

US Airways is another story. They've never really caught on here. About the time America West started up here, the merger with US Airways took place. Since then, that airline has been in disarray. Southwest really hurts them here as well. SW basically killed off the Vegas route (along with Allegiant). Plus they're in direct competition on the Phoenix flights. In my opinion, US Airways would be better served here if they flew east rather than west. I think there is still room for growth to the east coast.

I think things are going alright in OKC, considering the problems with the commercial air industry. Continental's Cleveland flights are finally beginning to catch on here. Although they haven't added any flights, Northwest has slightly increased capacity here by rotating in some Embraer 175 and (currently) a DC-9.
Despite their financial troubles, Frontier is doing three mainliners a day. Not bad considering they've decided to pull the plug completely on Tulsa.

I agreee with Venture, that American may do some cutting back here. Either with flights or capacity.

solitude
05-31-2008, 02:15 PM
Champion will be missed. They offered great package deals to Vegas and Cancun.

I think much of what is happening is due to fuel costs. This is just killing the economy in so many ways.

Gas, by the way, was $1.46 when George W. Bush took office. Just sayin'.

chrisok
05-31-2008, 02:19 PM
Champion will be missed. They offered great package deals to Vegas and Cancun.

I think much of what is happening is due to fuel costs. This is just killing the economy in so many ways.

Gas, by the way, was $1.46 when George W. Bush took office. Just sayin'.

While I will miss Champion's 727's (great planes in their time), the great package deals are still available on MLT. Allegiant will be doing the flying now.

Gas was around $2.35 when the Democrats took control of Congress. :biggrin:

venture
05-31-2008, 11:48 PM
United will not be going anywhere.

US Airways...their schedule seems to be ok for now. I agree that they would be better off having service to Charlotte than Phoenix...but they aren't growing any out there until 2009 at the earliest.

PennyQuilts
06-01-2008, 08:32 AM
Gas, by the way, was $1.46 when George W. Bush took office. Just sayin'.

Pretty much all Bush haters EVER say which is why you can't take them seriously. Just sayin'.

venture
06-01-2008, 11:08 AM
United is cutting one of the daily LAX flights, they will only have one a day now. So a huge hit from OKC to Southern California.

soonerguru
06-01-2008, 09:27 PM
Pretty much all Bush haters EVER say which is why you can't take them seriously. Just sayin'.

Oh dear God. Please don't tell me you believe Bush has exerted a pinkie finger's worth of leadership to deliver this country a sane energy policy. And don't tell me his buddies in the oil patch are not at the top of his Rolodex (Blackberry?). Oh Jesus. Of course we know Bush doesn't set the oil prices. We DO know, however, that he and his pals are making off quite well during this particular hardship for the rest of us, that Iraq is a factor in oil prices, and that we are totally beholden to his family's best friends in Saudi Arabia. You GOP apologists seem to enjoy characterizing any Bush critique as simplistic and devoid of merit. How eight years of unmitigated disappointment and failure hasn't caused you to second guess him is beyond me.

Superhyper
06-01-2008, 09:58 PM
Well at least we might have expanding rail service....maybe.....someday. Not as convenient, but at least i've never been told they've oversold my train and i'll have to wait until 6am(at 2pm).

Jesseda
06-02-2008, 05:53 AM
What is really sad is all those direct flights they where so great to make it from okc to san diego or sacramento in less that 3 hrs

SoonerDave
06-02-2008, 07:10 AM
Oh dear God. Please don't tell me you believe Bush has exerted a pinkie finger's worth of leadership to deliver this country a sane energy policy.

No more or less than any other president in my lifetime...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled airline thread.

sgt. pepper
06-02-2008, 02:47 PM
Gas, by the way, was $1.46 when George W. Bush took office. Just sayin'.
Oh dear God. Please don't tell me you believe Bush has exerted a pinkie finger's worth of leadership to deliver this country a sane energy policy. And don't tell me his buddies in the oil patch are not at the top of his Rolodex (Blackberry?). Oh Jesus. Of course we know Bush doesn't set the oil prices. We DO know, however, that he and his pals are making off quite well during this particular hardship for the rest of us, that Iraq is a factor in oil prices, and that we are totally beholden to his family's best friends in Saudi Arabia. You GOP apologists seem to enjoy characterizing any Bush critique as simplistic and devoid of merit. How eight years of unmitigated disappointment and failure hasn't caused you to second guess him is beyond me.
Keep all the *^&%#* Bush bashing in the poliltical forum PPLLEEAASSEE!!!
I get enough of that and all the obama the messiah praising bull crap in there!!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled airline thread.
Oh dear God please.

Luke
06-02-2008, 05:11 PM
While I will miss Champion's 727's (great planes in their time), the great package deals are still available on MLT. Allegiant will be doing the flying now.

Is there a press release or anything you can link me for this info? Allegiant specializes in Las Vegas and Orlando vacations. MLT didn't have Orlando with Champion. Will OKC perhaps get a OKC-Orlando nonstop with Allegiant flying?

Thanks for any info.

venture
06-03-2008, 01:26 AM
No. MLT is just chartering the plane from Allegiant. It has nothing to do with their scheduled service and OKC flights aren't even sold by Allegiant. Allegiant does more than just Vegas and Orlando.

This is nothing different than other tour companies chartering aircraft from Northwest, Frontier, and other airlines.

Luke
07-28-2008, 04:40 PM
Just got this email from Worry Free Vacations:


Worry-Free Vacations' departure from Oklahoma City

As of October 20, 2008, Worry-Free Vacations will no longer offer service from Oklahoma City to Las Vegas. However, we would like to invite you to update your e-mail profile and select Dallas/Ft. Worth as your Origin City Airport, so that you can continue to receive e-mails and specials from Worry-Free Vacations. Also, we would like to take this opportunity to invite you to travel with Worry-Free Vacations' sister company - NWA WorldVacations.

Yet another to leave OKC...

Kerry
07-29-2008, 05:38 AM
The flights being cancelled to Las Vegas are an indicator of how bad Vegas has become as a destination and not necessarily a reflection of Oklahoma City. A lady I work with goes to Vegas 2X a year and she just went two weeks ago. She said it was dead. Very empty during the week and Friday and Saturday had the crowd of a usual Wednesday. 2 major casino projects have gone into foreclosure and more are probably on the way.

SeinfeldBlock
07-29-2008, 07:03 AM
Just flew Continental to Newark. My direct was cancelled, all flights to Cleveland were booked, and I had to fly through Houston. On the way back, flights from Cleveland to OKC were overbooked. Again.

Just sayin'...... sucks they have to cut that route. I'm pretty annoyed that Continental is losing it, considering it's full or overbooked almost all the time!

WRWA really needs to rally, I don't really like flying Southwest and don't want it to be a "Southwest" hot spot.

venture
07-29-2008, 07:14 PM
Cleveland is not performing as well as you may think.

First quarter of 2008...

209 .. OKC-CLE ….. $7,530.07 ….. $5,797.39 ….. $0.12364 ….. $0.21327 ….. $0.15019 ….. 50.70%

50.70% is the load factor...so the 50 seat jet is only taking 25 people per trip on average. The route is also only making 15 cents per available seat mile. That is HORRIBLE for a regional jet right now.

Air service from OKC will be at the mercy of the rest of the industry...which means what you see now, is what you'll get for awhile - unless oil changes more either direction.

As far as Worry Free. Allegiant is pulling that aircraft back into its scheduled fleet. Worry Free had the option to use Northwest or another airline...but decided to pull the plug. They will also end the Mexican service as well. Hopefully, with the east wing construction getting close to becoming a reality...that a couple international gates will be added so we can get Aeromexico or another Mexican airlines - or even a US carrier going the other way.

SeinfeldBlock
07-29-2008, 07:38 PM
Cleveland is not performing as well as you may think.

First quarter of 2008...

209 .. OKC-CLE ….. $7,530.07 ….. $5,797.39 ….. $0.12364 ….. $0.21327 ….. $0.15019 ….. 50.70%

50.70% is the load factor...so the 50 seat jet is only taking 25 people per trip on average. The route is also only making 15 cents per available seat mile. That is HORRIBLE for a regional jet right now.

Air service from OKC will be at the mercy of the rest of the industry...which means what you see now, is what you'll get for awhile - unless oil changes more either direction.

As far as Worry Free. Allegiant is pulling that aircraft back into its scheduled fleet. Worry Free had the option to use Northwest or another airline...but decided to pull the plug. They will also end the Mexican service as well. Hopefully, with the east wing construction getting close to becoming a reality...that a couple international gates will be added so we can get Aeromexico or another Mexican airlines - or even a US carrier going the other way.

Bummer. I can never get a seat on that flight. I thought it was doing great! Every time I fly through there it seems to be pretty full, but maybe I just have great timing.... ha ha. I'm pretty sure it's the latter...

I like getting all of this ariline information.

Also noticed the huge ExpressJet poster in WRWA. Maybe they should pull that now...

venture
07-29-2008, 11:49 PM
Yeah...and the key saying - Full flights don't equal profitable flights. There are plenty of flights out there that are flying with 90% load factors, but bleeding cash (Hawaii/Florida/Vegas). People just can't or don't want to pay more so airlines can cover their costs.

chrisok
07-29-2008, 11:51 PM
^^^
It'll be interesting to see 2nd and 3rd qtr numbers on CLE. I've been on about 15 segments OKC/CLE or CLE/OKC, in the past couple of months and nearly 50 this year. While I realize in the grand scheme of things it's a small portion of all the flights to and from CLE, I have noticed a HUGE upswing in passenger counts. I'm sure a large portion of that is normal vacation/leisure travel. However, it's hard not to notice the consistant oversold situations over the past month or two.

I was the on the first flight from OKC to CLE last year, and there were five passengers on board. (We had all you can eat muffins that morning..haha) Back then and early this year, there were many flights with less than 20 passengers.

OUman
07-30-2008, 07:42 AM
In today's Oklahoman:

Source: Will Rogers loses 5 direct connections | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/will-rogers-loses-5-direct-connections/article/3276636/?tm=1217388052)

All US Airways service will be eliminated, average daily departure count will apparently go down to 75. On the other hand, I do agree with the article in that OKC (as in the airport-I don't sub in airport codes for city names ;)) is still doing well as the passenger counts go, they're still rising, so airlines cannot cut back dramatically here.

venture
07-30-2008, 08:58 AM
Nice to see The Oklahoma finally catch up to use here...only took them a few weeks. :)

Someone needs to correct the Airport Director though...Cincinnati is not getting an additional flight, only Atlanta. Cincinnati will be gone with in 9 months more than likely anyway.

Richard at Remax
07-30-2008, 09:01 AM
does this mean that continental nonstop flight to newark will be gone?

OKCTalker
07-30-2008, 10:03 AM
Steve Lackmeyer wrote in today's DO (Will Rogers loses 5 direct connections | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/will-rogers-loses-5-direct-connections/article/3276636/?tm=1217388052)) that OKC is losing five direct flights, but he didn't name them. Does anyone know which airlines & cities are involved (e.g., AA OKC-DFW; SW OKC-LAS; UA OKC-DEN)?

venture
07-30-2008, 10:20 AM
Umm...we've gone over this a LONG time ago in the other thread.

All the cuts and everything are in this thread:

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/13125-airline-cuts.html

Like I said...the Oklahoma took its time publishing this, but we have been discussing it for weeks.

CCOKC
07-30-2008, 01:34 PM
Yeah, I just had a sense of dread when I saw the headline in the paper today until I read the article and noticed this was the same old news that you had posted weeks ago. Another reason to read OKC Talk to be up to date.

LordGerald
07-30-2008, 02:10 PM
Once again, the DO is behind the times, or in this case, OKCBusiness...

Airlines seek to reduce costs with passenger fees
By Randall Turk - 7/21/2008


Pay more, pack less and plan for longer delays if you expect to get airborne this summer.


Airlines have experienced huge losses resulting from a 90-percent increase in fuel prices over the past year. A series of unsuccessful attempts to impose fuel surcharges and fare increases to compensate for runaway costs last year has led air carriers to impose a roundabout means of recouping their losses.


A growing number of fees not included in ticket prices are just another annoyance for air travelers before they are shepherded, shoeless, through airport scanners.


The airlines also are cutting back on domestic routes, grounding less efficient aircraft and packing planes to capacity.


OKC ridership up

Of carriers serving Will Rogers World Airport, Continental already has announced cutbacks in nonstop service to some cities, and ExpressJet has pulled out of the state. United will cut one of its two nonstop flights to Los Angeles after Labor Day. But so far, the service cuts have not restrained passenger load at Will Rogers World Airport, officials say.


The number of commercial airline take-offs and landings began to stumble in June. There were 5,478 take-offs and landings in June, down 7.22 percent from the same month last year. But the number of arriving and departing passengers grew to 365,889 in June, up 0.94 percent from the previous June.


Mark Kranenburg, OKC director of airports, said he believes air travel through Will Rogers will be up this summer.


Although the Continental and ExpressJet decisions left some voids in nonstop service from OKC, Kranenburg said, “passengers will use other airlines to travel through connecting hub airports” to reach destinations lost to nonstop service.


The more than 1.8 million passengers arriving and departing OKC aboard commercial airliners represented a 5.7-percent increase through June, compared to the same period last year.


Cashing in on bargain fares to popular destinations is growing rarer. And so is finding cheap seats on most other flights, given the profusion of fees. Convenience, baggage size and weight and onboard appetite and amenities all have costs attached.


And the Federal Aviation Administration is enforcing tough size restrictions on carry-on items. Anything larger than carry-on size must travel as checked baggage. Some airlines are charging $2 or $3 for curbside check-in.


Hidden costs mount

Still more fees are imposed upon consumers should a child fly unaccompanied by an adult or should the family pet tag along, for example. Dining in the sky also has its price, as does reserving an aisle or window seat or seats with extra space and more legroom.


Those unfortunate enough to find they must change travel plans while in transit pay a non-refundable ticket change fee. Most carriers get $100 to $150 for a destination change.


Southwest Airlines is the one exception to the proliferation of fees. Since 1999, Southwest has shaved $3.5 billion from fuel costs by hedging futures contracts on jet fuel. The company’s fuel costs averaged $1.98 a gallon during the first quarter, about 30 percent less than its competitors. Southwest Airlines expects 4-percent growth in capacity this year, possibly through filling routes abandoned by other carriers.


Among Southwest’s fees is a controversial one for “double occupancy,” a policy that could spread to other airlines. Passengers too large to squeeze into a Southwest seat are charged for two.


Travelers waiting in terminals could encounter another expensive inconvenience – delayed flights. A report issued in May by the Senate Joint Economic Committee stated that flight delays consumed nearly 20 percent of total domestic flight time in 2007. The report, compiled from U.S. Department of Transportation flight records, showed the flight delays cost passengers, airlines and the U.S. economy more than $40 billion.

The report said most delays were caused by backed-up flights and snafus in the national system. Less than 6 percent of the delays were attributed to severe weather.

solitude
07-30-2008, 02:14 PM
Venture and Lord Gerald are right. The Oklahoman is wayyy behind on this one.

SeinfeldBlock
07-30-2008, 03:37 PM
Among Southwest’s fees is a controversial one for “double occupancy,” a policy that could spread to other airlines. Passengers too large to squeeze into a Southwest seat are charged for two.



I totally don't get Southwest's policy here. I flew Southwest several times, dropped a size, then they told me I fell under their "double occupancy" standard. Guess it depends on the flight attendant. Flew them again two weeks later and there was no problem. If another airline implements this problem, they better figure out how to make it work equally across the board.

Maybe that's why I don't fly them now.

jbrown84
07-30-2008, 09:38 PM
does this mean that continental nonstop flight to newark will be gone?

I'm wondering this too.

SeinfeldBlock
07-31-2008, 06:56 AM
Somewhere, in another thread, someone said that the flight to Newark is safe for now. I'd hope so, considering New York is a huge destintation and when I fly that route often, it's pretty full if not booked.

I hope it still is!

jbrown84
08-01-2008, 11:34 PM
I hate layovers and I go to NYC once a year or so, so I hope so.

OKCisOK4me
08-02-2008, 12:39 AM
Sooooooooooo....WRWA is losing flights, yet they just approved a plan for Phase III of building an east concourse for the airport?? Seems like a waste of money, unless they're planning for a future with more flights...

Don't get me wrong, I think an east gate would be great, but, seeing the current trend...

jbrown84
08-02-2008, 04:47 PM
OKC has neglected to get ahead of the growth in many ways. This is once chance for us to break that trend by planning ahead.

venture
08-04-2008, 12:46 AM
The Newark flight isn't going anywhere yet, as stated on the other thread. However, loads and yeilds must come up or it will be cut.

The terminal construction, say it will take 3-5 years...then its okay. The airline industry should start swinging up by then. However, it can't be for another 11-12 gates...5-6, with some being for international traffic use and a business club for higher yeilding passengers.

HOT ROD
08-04-2008, 03:33 PM
Venture, Im ok with that.

We could shell in other gates/jetways later - once/if demand warrants.

that's what I was saying all along, build the building NOW - while it's cheap, then use it as you see fit. It would not hurt at all for WRWA to have a airline first class lounge and some additional shopping/restaurant options.

And the added space gives us potential so that when we hit the upswing in the aviation indistry again - OKC will be 'ready' just like we were with the Ford Center!

Remember? - I see a significant parallel here, and is why Im so upset we didn't build the airport with the E and W Concourses as was originally designed during the original construction window. Yet I am very happy that it is going to be built nevertheless during this immediate horizon.

Let's not be 'late' on anything else - who knows what opportunities we might have passed up on.

HOT ROD
08-11-2008, 11:18 PM
Hiya everyone.

I have some great news! :dizzy:

I just wanted to notify the airliner enthusiasts of you that United Airlines has been flying a 757-200 (182 seats!!!) during their weekday flight schedule into Oklahoma City - Will Rogers International Airport.

A 757 is the largest single-aisle aircraft produced by Boeing and is the most common airplane in United's fleet. United Airlines - B757 (http://www.united.com/page/article/0,,1442,00.html)

757 is noteworthy because it is the beginning of large airplanes with the dual tandem landing gear (4 wheels per wing gear). Hence, typically big cities see them at their airports given their capacity at 182 seats (for United) and longest flying range of any single-aisle airplane. 737's and A319's have just 2 wheels and only have 120 seats or less.

It's great to see United has moved OKC up a little. Having a 757(s) daily (or weekday) service is quite an indicator of big city status.

Also, of interest is the 757 has a thrust vector that produces it's own turbulence for quite some time after the original wake vortex has been produced (you may hear on FAA radio transcripts that air traffic controllers ALWAYS caution aircraft for 757 Wake Turbulence, due to their powerful and efficient engines).

Anyways, I just wanted to let you guys know in case you hadn't realized it. Get out there and see this magnificent aircraft (and even better - fly in it!!!).

The 757 comes into Will Rogers as

United Airlines 1196 Arrives 12:37PM

and departs for Denver as

United Airlines 523 Departs 1:27 PM

that gives you roughly an hour to see this wonderful aircraft at Gate 3 or 5 (United's Gates), which are viewable as you enter the airport dropoff area.

Could somebody take some pics? Im curious if it is sporting the new livery or the older corporate one, plus it will be nice to see a large airplane at WRWA

- maybe someone can take a pic and post it on Wikipedia (we need to show a large United airplane like this one IMO).

Also note, United is also flying A319's (120 seats) and A320's (138 seats) regularly into WRWA as well. Typically, the A320 comes in during the night and departs first thing. It is also a beauty. A319's come in throughout the day, no pattern noticed.

I can't wait until all of the old 737's are gone, it's great to see United has moved some of the A320's from TED to OKC (instead of adding many more regional jets) and is flying a 757 during the weekday lunch rush hour. :congrats:

Please help this continue!!!!!

LIL_WAYNE_4_PREZIDENT08
08-11-2008, 11:58 PM
I saw that 757 a couple days ago right as it was taking off

Yea its huge

OUman
08-12-2008, 09:46 AM
757 is noteworthy because it is the beginning of large airplanes with the dual tandem landing gear (4 wheels per wing gear). Hence, typically big cities see them at their airports given their capacity at 182 seats (for United) and longest flying range of any single-aisle airplane. 737's and A319's have just 2 wheels and only have 120 seats or less.

It's great to see United has moved OKC up a little. Having a 757(s) daily (or weekday) service is quite an indicator of big city status.

Yep, it's good to see OKC being upgraded to a 757 by one of the majors, this is the second time UAL has had 757 service between DEN and OKC. Perhaps more significant in this is that the 757 is being operated to/from OKC during the "slow" period for air travel during the day, when typically many airports like OKC have RJs instead of mainliners.

Will Rogers can and has handled aircraft upto the 747-400 (actually Northwest flew in a DC 10-30 and a 744 back in December '04 IIRC). But yeah, the terminal can only handle aircraft upto the 767 maybe, I can't see a 747 docking at the terminal without occupying neighbouring gate ramp space.

Not to be picky or anything, but cities like Austin and Reno have had daily 757 service long before we had. It's not uncommon for large jets and widebodies to be seen at airports like Greenville-Spartanburg, which handles a Lufthansa Cargo MD 11.

Both the 737 and 319 can have a higher density configuration especially with a one-class layout like Southwest's (137 seats). Also, correct me if I'm wrong on this but I think the 737-700ER is now the world's longest-range single-aisle airplane. The 73G (as it's abbreviated) is now my favourite 737 variant.

venture
08-12-2008, 10:15 AM
Yeah...OU Bowl charters brought in the 747-400 and DC-10 back in '04. With the existing terminal, they would likely need to be parked at the end gates, but would still take up 2 positions due to wing span. So if they are used on charters again, they'll be parked on a remote stand somewhere.

The 757 was likely thrown in here just because of the reduction of the 737 fleet by United, and it was the only available narrowbody to us. It is gone next month.

Like OUman said, small/medium cities see service on the 757 quite a bit. My favorite example has been Savannah, GA to Atlanta...Delta has had a 757 on that run for years. It use to be all 757 service on the short hop. It is all about where the yeild and passengers are...OKC still doesn't have the perfect numbers to get larger aircraft consistantly. And yeah, on the cargo side, you'll tend to see the bigger cargo hubs (except for FedEx at MEM and UPS at Louisville) at airports that don't do a lot of passenger service. Greensboro and Rockford are hubs for UPS, Wilmington being the hub for DHL, and Toledo being the hub for BAX Global who also gets 747-400F service from Emirates to Frankfurt/Dubai and Qantas to Sydney.

The seating numbers on the 737 can go up over 200 with the -900ER. The A319 up over 150 in high density seating. So they definitely aren't 120 or less aircraft.

OU...I think you are right on the 737-700ER being the longest range single isle aircraft now, except for maybe a business jet....especially the BBJ version.

OUman
08-12-2008, 12:12 PM
^Yeah it is likely that the 75' isn't filling up, although most flights to/from OKC are pretty full during the summer season, but next month with the drop-off in passenger numbers it will be replaced. Still though, with the conditions the industry is in getting a 757 at all for an airport like OKC is pretty good. You're right about the BBJ being the longest-range narrowbody jet, Boeing also has the BBJ2 but that's based on the 737-800 airframe.

HOT ROD
08-12-2008, 10:33 PM
Yeah...OU Bowl charters brought in the 747-400 and DC-10 back in '04. With the existing terminal, they would likely need to be parked at the end gates, but would still take up 2 positions due to wing span. So if they are used on charters again, they'll be parked on a remote stand somewhere.

The 757 was likely thrown in here just because of the reduction of the 737 fleet by United, and it was the only available narrowbody to us. It is gone next month.

Like OUman said, small/medium cities see service on the 757 quite a bit. My favorite example has been Savannah, GA to Atlanta...Delta has had a 757 on that run for years. It use to be all 757 service on the short hop. It is all about where the yeild and passengers are...OKC still doesn't have the perfect numbers to get larger aircraft consistantly. And yeah, on the cargo side, you'll tend to see the bigger cargo hubs (except for FedEx at MEM and UPS at Louisville) at airports that don't do a lot of passenger service. Greensboro and Rockford are hubs for UPS, Wilmington being the hub for DHL, and Toledo being the hub for BAX Global who also gets 747-400F service from Emirates to Frankfurt/Dubai and Qantas to Sydney.

The seating numbers on the 737 can go up over 200 with the -900ER. The A319 up over 150 in high density seating. So they definitely aren't 120 or less aircraft.

OU...I think you are right on the 737-700ER being the longest range single isle aircraft now, except for maybe a business jet....especially the BBJ version.

I would hardly consider louisville a pax hub, they're barely bigger than WRWA despite being in a 'desirable' business/traffic area and the ONLY large airport in their state. I also would only consider MEM a regional hub for NW, they've been reduced considerably - do they even fly large planes out of MEM (aside from a few shuttles to other NW hubs?).

As for the 737 (where you went on from my quoted pax levels), my facts were from United configurations. United doesn't have any 700ERs or 900ERs, you your post is quite suspect. Based on your post, you should realize that the 757-300 is the largest single-aisle airplane ever produced with capacity far exceeding any 737 or A319,318,320,321 config. In fact, even a 757-200 can seat well over 200 pax from an all economy type config. And those ER's on the 737's of course have extended range (hence ER), but not at the same pax/fuel ratio of the 757.

United has -300 and -500, both of whom typically fly into OKC and are the oldest of UA's single-aisle fleet.

On this fact, I was elated to see the 757-200 during the weekday schedule and the consistent A319 and A320's.

I believe what killed the 757 from production was mostly political within Boeing (I remember attending a few of the meetings in fact....) and the fact that it did it's job 'too well', being high capacity and long range where airliners were desiring a cheaper plane to do the equiv (which 737's and A320 series does quite well by comparison).

It's too bad, 757 is my most favourite single-aisle plane. A one aisler that is a Big Guy! And love the Wake Turbulence it produces.

Still OKC, get out there and see/take pics of United's 757 before it goes away (as Venture suggests.

By the way, UPS flies a 757 (752F) daily into WRWA from it's Louisville hub! Nevertheless, I hope we can somehow keep the United 757.

OUman
08-13-2008, 09:33 AM
^To add to that Fedex upgraded its OKC ops to a couple widebody 310Fs/300Fs as well last year (replacing three daily 722Fs), I actually snapped a shot of it on the cargo ramp on the east side of the field the other day while heading down to AUS. I have a feeling though that they'll be downgraded to 75s as well once more 752BCFs (Boeing Converted Freighters) come into the fleet, like UPS has now at OKC.

United has been flying the 319s and 320s on a regular basis the past few years, with an Explus CR7 or EMB 170 thrown in by United Express.

venture
08-13-2008, 01:49 PM
>>I would hardly consider louisville a pax hub, they're barely bigger than WRWA despite being in a 'desirable' business/traffic area and the ONLY large airport in their state. I also would only consider MEM a regional hub for NW, they've been reduced considerably - do they even fly large planes out of MEM (aside from a few shuttles to other NW hubs?).<<

MEM has actually held its own. I believe they still do a A330 to AMS from there, either NW or KLM - depends on the time of year who runs it.

>>As for the 737 (where you went on from my quoted pax levels), my facts were from United configurations. United doesn't have any 700ERs or 900ERs, you your post is quite suspect. Based on your post, you should realize that the 757-300 is the largest single-aisle airplane ever produced with capacity far exceeding any 737 or A319,318,320,321 config. In fact, even a 757-200 can seat well over 200 pax from an all economy type config. And those ER's on the 737's of course have extended range (hence ER), but not at the same pax/fuel ratio of the 757.<<

Well aware that the 757-300 is the largest modern single aisle aircraft. Flew on them several times with ATA when they still had their MDW hub. The 757-200 normally flies with about 210 or so pax in an all tourist layout. Don't worry, I'm well familiar with the vast majority of layouts and aircraft out there - no need to school me. :)

>>United has -300 and -500, both of whom typically fly into OKC and are the oldest of UA's single-aisle fleet.<<

All of which will be gone by 2009.

>>I believe what killed the 757 from production was mostly political within Boeing (I remember attending a few of the meetings in fact....) and the fact that it did it's job 'too well', being high capacity and long range where airliners were desiring a cheaper plane to do the equiv (which 737's and A320 series does quite well by comparison).<<

The problem with the 757 is that it didn't have a well marketed family. It was designed as a replacement to the 727, and it did that well. The problem is the lower end of the seating range is able to be handled by the 737 family. Heck even the 737-900ER can easily be used to replace 757-200s now. The upper end meant that the 757 would be overlapping the 767 family. Two different product lines, but demand wasn't there for the late coming -300. Now the ever delayed 787 will replace the 767 and 757-300 niche for Boeing. It just didn't have anywhere to go and was an odd ball, but a great aircraft. Much like the MD-95/717-200. Great little plane, but a family wasn't developed or proposed to late to where the project was killed. Of course Boeing wouldn't dare let a former MDD product move into its 737 territory, which the 717-300 was going to do.

BG918
08-13-2008, 02:28 PM
I just hope we can keep Frontier to DEN as Tulsa lost their service. I like having either the United or Frontier option when flying to Colorado. I'll be using Frontier next month and I worry about it.

HOT ROD
08-13-2008, 06:18 PM
You're right about the MD-95. We killed it, just like we did the MD-11.

Im not even sure why we gave it a Boeing designation (717) other than to create unity in the company. We didn't give the MD-11 any boeing designation though, so Im not so sure it was a good idea to "lose" a 7X7 designation, since now we only have one left (797).

I wasn't trying to 'school' you on aircraft, obviously you can hold your own. I was only correcting what you were correcting about my posts. I was posting United's configurations yet you were making general observations (that 737's can seat more than 120, etc).

Again, I was posting United configs and therefore the significance of getting a 757 from them.

I work for Boeing in finance, and have been with Boeing since 1998 - so I am very well aware of aviation and airlines as well - esp from the MFG side of it.

I do agree with you that the 757 didn't have a strong family, but that was mainly because it's 'family' was the 767 - 757 and 767 were fraternal twins, the 67 being the larger brother; as both planes had similar layout from an airline prospective - including the same cockpit and feet.

of course, 767 is larger, twin aisle, and was marketed to be a high capacity TransAtlantic carrier while the 757 was marketed to be a high capacity domestic hauler.

Engines is what separated the two though, as the 757 produced the same or greater wake turbulence despite being quite a bit smaller aircraft.

Swake2
08-13-2008, 07:33 PM
Frontier is likely going to fold entirely before too long. But Southwest is now flying from both OKC and Tulsa to Denver.

American has had a daily 757 to Tulsa from Dallas for years, but it's there to a large extent to move planes to and from the airbase. They unveiled a 757 with the Race for the Cure ribbon painted down the side here yesterday as a matter of fact.

Tulsa World: Jets go pink to aid Komen (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080812_11_A9_CUTLIN982665 )