Here are a few pictures I took at the Sieber at the Downtown Living Tour this past Saturday. I will post more pics of other properties eventually.

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Seiber1.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber2.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber3.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber4.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber5.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber6.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber7.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber10.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber11.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber12.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber13.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber14.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber15.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber16.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber17.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber19.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber20.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Sieber21.JPG

Too close to Northcare for me..

How much per sq. ft., did they say?

Thanks, Metro! About how complete is it?

Mid, I didn't get the price per sq. ft., I only had 20 minutes or so to look at it before I started doing the bus tours. I could of swore someone on staff there told me they start at $700 or so a month. Someone stated that was wrong, it's definitely possible. I know the unit in the 2 story building was $1800 a month, which is a little high, but compared to comparable units downtown, I say it's average and amenities/ambiance are slightly better with better finishes.

Doug, they still have quite a ways to go as you can tell. The two story building is pretty much ready to lease out. The 6 story tower, they only had one fully completed model unit, and 2-3 units about 50% done as you can somewhat see by the picture. I'm not sure how many layouts they have, but they are all unique with pretty good views of the skyline on the south side of the building. I really liked one unit about 25% done. It had a view of the space in between the two sides of the tower and you could technically open the windows and get up on the 2nd story roof. It really reminded me a lot of NYC, very similar to Monica's apartment on Friends.

Doug, if you need to use any of the pics for your blog, you're welcome as always, just give me credit. I was really impressed by the main lobby. I truly hope they will restore the natural art deco tile and bar. They plan on putting a period restaurant in there, so that would be terrific!

Absolute lowest is $1000 for a one-bed. Talked to her on the phone.

Ouch.

That's a lot of money to live across the street from Northcare.

Thanks, Metro.

Looks like they are doing a really nice job. I like all the finishes and details.


The market will dictate a fair price for the rental. If they can't get what they are asking, they'll have to lower their rates.

But I hope they get it. They've obviously invested a lot of money and are doing things right. Higher rents will encourage more quality redevelopments.

Mid, as fellow downtowners, I understand your frustration with prices, however why do you keep discouraging people from moving downtown. We need a critical mass downtown so developers will see the need and sustainability downtown so they will build more affordable housing, more retail, grocery store, etc. Discouraging folks to move downtown is not what we need at this point in time, we're finally getting to a point of critical mass downtown this summer.

Mid, as fellow downtowners, I understand your frustration with prices, however why do you keep discouraging people from moving downtown. We need a critical mass downtown so developers will see the need and sustainability downtown so they will build more affordable housing, more retail, grocery store, etc. Discouraging folks to move downtown is not what we need at this point in time, we're finally getting to a point of critical mass downtown this summer.

Metro, I merely call these things as I see them. Do you not think an indigent psychiatric facility being across the street from where you live is important? It would be to me.

As far as prices go, I really have no problem with developers charging whatever the market will bear. That's America, God bless it. To me, as a potential buyer, a major concern is always whether I will be upside down in my investment from day one. I think with the ready supply of new housing at above double the average $/sq. ft. for the city, there's a good chance of that.

Some people can afford to not have their homes be some sort of financial play. That's great for them, but most of us don't have the luxury of living for the moment. We have to think about more than what's best today -- but also what's best 10-20 years down the line.

ETA: With the Sieber in particular, what makes it a more attractive home than the Aberdeen?

If price / investment is an issue, there are lots of good options in Mesta Park and the surrounding area. You can buy a free-standing home for well less than $200K and then put in some sweat equity. Almost no chance of losing your investment and you have far more control over your property.

In fact, I just saw a little house listed in Mesta for $146K that is on 16th & Dewey and has a remodeled kitchen.

People get all hung up on "low maintenance" then end up paying hundreds of dollars for monthly home owner's fees. You could easily use that same amount to hire people to maintain your own home.


There are plenty of reasonable downtown living options, including rental units. But if you want a brand new space you are going to pay a premium.

I agree with the psychiatric facility being a major concern. In fact, I saw several homeless sleeping outside on the curb and the side of the building, while the Downtown Living Tour was going on. It would be a concern of mine, however I also believe in letting market forces run their course. If people are willing to live there (again not me or you) and pay the high rents while knowing the psychiatric facility is next door, then let it be. I'm ecstatic for Ellard renovating one of our city's most historic structures into housing/retail.

Aberdeen is also nice, not quite as historic, and away from everything. Seiber is at least walking distance to trolley stops, and the emerging Plaza Court/Walker Ave. district.

Do you not think an indigent psychiatric facility being across the street from where you live is important? It would be to me.

This hasn't affected Harvey Lofts at all: and they are for sale directly across the street from Northcare. On the side, I don't know this for sure but I have heard about discussions of Northcare moving by city officials.

[/QUOTE]ETA: With the Sieber in particular, what makes it a more attractive home than the Aberdeen?[/QUOTE]

No comparison in my opinion, they're models are open by appt. .. go see. The quote I heard was that the Sieber will be 100% complete by the end of July except for the restaurant space and move-ins starting early June.

If price / investment is an issue, there are lots of good options in Mesta Park and the surrounding area. You can buy a free-standing home for well less than $200K and then put in some sweat equity. Almost no chance of losing your investment and you have far more control over your property.

In fact, I just saw a little house listed in Mesta for $146K that is on 16th & Dewey and has a remodeled kitchen.

People get all hung up on "low maintenance" then end up paying hundreds of dollars for monthly home owner's fees. You could easily use that same amount to hire people to maintain your own home.

There are plenty of reasonable downtown living options, including rental units. But if you want a brand new space you are going to pay a premium.

Absolutely agree -- and Mesta is something we're considering. The big problem with older homes is that they are extremely inefficient from an energy standpoint and also, most of the homes of that age have old cloth wiring and failing sewers. In many of those homes, you're going to need to be able to invest between $10K and $40K to properly modernize things. In a few years though, I'll probably be able to handle that sort of thing financially. I certainly do like the character of those older homes as compared to something in Edmond (although there is a nice neighborhood in Edmond just south of the university).

I don't know who those people are that are going to be filling the Sieber, but God bless 'em. I completely agree that we need these developments, and as long as the prices are sustainable, why not? It's a testament to the fact that the economy in Oklahoma City has picked up a lot of steam.

Midtowner, don't let those worries disuade you from getting serious about buying in Mesta or older neighborhoods.

A good home inspector will turn up any serious issues and typically a seller will give you a credit towards any deal-breakers at closing. Also, any home that has had a decent remodel (like the one I mentioned) has likely had electrical addressed as otherwise no one would touch the work.

As far as being energy inefficient, there is a lot that can be done about that, such as replacement windows and adding insulation. And often times, you can get credits from utilities for this sort of work.


I probably shouldn't be posting all this because I am seriously considering in buying some properties in those neighborhoods as investments. Considering what is being charged for nearby construction, those homes are a steal and finance rates are very low.

The Aberdeen is not very good living and to mention in the same post as the Sieber should get you perma-banned from this website! The Aberdeen is old, msty, poorly managed, and the last time I was in there, there were virtually no updates to it.

The newest developments downtown are pretty expensive but there will be some more affordable ones coming soon. I'd like to see more Class B or C office-to-apartment conversions in the CBD, like Park Harvey, that offer cheaper rentals for those who want to live downtown but can't yet afford to own.

I know two people in their early 20's (just out of college) who live downtown or close to it. One works for an accounting firm and the other in the business office of a restaurant, both work in downtown. One lives at Legacy which is not too expensive and has a pool, workout room, etc. plus really close to the CBD, and the other in one of the older apartment buildings near 15th and Robinson and her rent is a lot cheaper for a 1 bedroom than what I pay in Norman. So yeah there's two young people who aren't making that much who both live in decent places for not much more than they'd pay living further away, and both walk or bike to work which saves a lot. The only problem is these places are now either full or filling up quickly, which is why we need more of them...

Midtowner, don't let those worries disuade you from getting serious about buying in Mesta or older neighborhoods.

A good home inspector will turn up any serious issues and typically a seller will give you a credit towards any deal-breakers at closing. Also, any home that has had a decent remodel (like the one I mentioned) has likely had electrical addressed as otherwise no one would touch the work.

As far as being energy inefficient, there is a lot that can be done about that, such as replacement windows and adding insulation. And often times, you can get credits from utilities for this sort of work.


I probably shouldn't be posting all this because I am seriously considering in buying some properties in those neighborhoods as investments. Considering what is being charged for nearby construction, those homes are a steal and finance rates are very low.

Pete, Why not come on back to Oklahoma City? I know you work for a non-profit, but aren't there non-profits here in Oklahoma City? What keeps you in California? I've wondered. It seems we have a lot of people supporting Oklahoma City - from afar. We could use your enthusiasm here!

Pete -- we looked two years ago and were really scared off from the whole older home thing. But I'll give it another shot this summer. I like those homes a lot. They have character and most are of far better quality than newer construction.

solitude, I am there in terms of owning this site and I will probably continue to look for other local investment opportunities. I can see a situation where I split my time between the two areas.

However, I won't be completely relocating for personal reasons, the primary one being that I love it here too much. That, and I can't take the OK weather, especially the sweltering summers.

And I've come to realize that sometimes you can be of better service to a place or group by not being a direct part of it. OKC needs ambassadors all over and also benefits from civic boosters with an outside perspective.

I really appreciate the sentiment, though! I frequently think about moving back; it's just the time currently isn't right.

Midtowner, don't wait too long. Prices in those neighborhoods are really going to start to climb (already have, in fact) as more people start looking downtown then realizing that these older homes are a relative bargain.

And you may not see interest rates this low for quite a while.

If you buy a modest-sized home (say around 2,000 sq. ft.) it should be manageable. You'll just have to put up with some inconveniences but that's more than fair trade (IMO) for the charm of the homes and the tree-lined streets.

Most prices in Mesta are rapidly rising well over 200K and Heritage Hills over 300K now. My wife and I had been trying to find a serious "fixer upper", while as stated above, there are a few, but there are not many left. It's hard to find anything south of 200K in either area. Not to mention many of them need at least 30-40K poured into them. Looks like I'll be waiting quite a while.

Frankly, if you guys really wanted to own down there, you could do it very easily. Yes, some of the homes need work but if you don't want that, pay more for for the newer places that were on the tour. If you can't afford to buy a home, well that's a different matter altogether.


I've looked at houses in these neighborhoods for right around $200K and I found several that were quite nice on a very nice street that didn't need a ton of expensive work.

I challenge you to find another decent sized city with great neighborhoods like this within walking distance of downtown for these prices.

These are all current listings in the Mesta Park area:

$94,900 (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=73103&typ=1&sid=4859ae173f4d4cecbd8882f917fd5e6c&lid=1088703461&lsn=6&srcnt=26#Detail)



$155,000 (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=73103&typ=1&sid=4859ae173f4d4cecbd8882f917fd5e6c&pg=2&lid=1098042564&lsn=12&srcnt=26#Detail)

$182,500 (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=73103&typ=1&sid=4859ae173f4d4cecbd8882f917fd5e6c&pg=2&lid=1099126900&lsn=14&srcnt=26#Detail)

http://p.rdcpix.com/v02/lfdc1aa40-m0l.jpg
$185,000 (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=73103&typ=1&sid=4859ae173f4d4cecbd8882f917fd5e6c&pg=2&lid=1084932605&lsn=15&srcnt=26#Detail)

$187,500
(http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=73103&typ=1&sid=4859ae173f4d4cecbd8882f917fd5e6c&pg=2&lid=1097326305&lsn=17&srcnt=26#Detail)

http://p.rdcpix.com/v01/lc10d7d41-m1l.jpg

$249,000 (http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?zp=73103&typ=1&sid=4859ae173f4d4cecbd8882f917fd5e6c&pg=2&lid=1098714561&lsn=19&srcnt=26#Detail)

I live in Heritage Hills and let me tell you that it is a great place to live. I work across the street from Plaza Court so my commute is real short.

The only problem that my wife and I have had is crazy OLD neighbors. Beware there are alot of rules of things you can and cant do to these houses. For instance, Pete, you can not change the windows. Alot of these houses still have their second owners in them and I hate to say it but they are old and these houses will be on the market soon.

Mesta Park and Heritage Hills are great places to live. I just wish they would hurry up with that redevelopment of 23rd as well as Jefferson Park and the appartment complexes there. In my opinion that is where the real money is to be made. You can pick those houses up very cheap! They do need work but you can make them nicer while also making the neighborhood nicer. Not to mention all of the apartment complexes through there that need to be renovated and rented to non-drug dealing low lifes that live on the corner of 23rd and Robinson.......

I would love to invest in this area with a partner or two and make some Humphreys style money renovating a whole section of historical housing that is in close proximity of downtown and the western ave district. Edgemere and Crown Heights are already demanding high prices. They are ample opportunities around all of these neighborhoods for investment

For instance, Pete, you can not change the windows.

Are you sure this is true for Mesta Park and the University Park area of HH?

I know they have restrictions -- like they need to be wood framed and in the original style -- but I didn't think they barred replacement windows altogether.

Ouch.

That's a lot of money to live across the street from Northcare.

Where exactly is Northcare, and what exactly is it?

Northcare is on Hudson... and 8th or 9th or 10th. It's an outpatient mental health facility for the indigent.

Are you sure this is true for Mesta Park and the University Park area of HH?

I know they have restrictions -- like they need to be wood framed and in the original style -- but I didn't think they barred replacement windows altogether.

Correct, since these are Historical Preservation areas or HP areas, you have to go before HP council before doing any exterior work, including windows. I verified this this past weekend.

So, you CAN replace windows, they just have to meet approval.

If you drive through those neighborhoods, you see dozens of homes that have been expanded or significantly renovated -- so obviously lots of things get approved.

I'm sure they just want to maintain the historical look but you can achieve that with modern building materials, including windows. This sort of thing is common in all historical neighborhoods around the country.