View Full Version : Architects see Convention Center anchoring C2S



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metro
05-01-2008, 09:00 AM
I know we've discussed this various times, but here's a new Lackmeyer article on the subject.

http://static.newsok.biz/article/20080501/3237321/core.jpg_05-01-2008_MP7BHDE.jpg

OU architects see new center anchoring Core-to-Shore development
By Steve Lackmeyer
The Oklahoman

Forget about simply making a new convention center “iconic.”
College students studying to become tomorrow’s architects say Oklahoma City should set its sights high as it begins to consider a new convention center as part of planning for “Core to Shore.”

Brent Gathright, Kim Monroe and Kyung Namgoong, all fifth-year architecture students at the University of Oklahoma, spent their past year designing proposals for what they all agree will be an important anchor of the blighted area between Reno Avenue, Shields Boulevard and the Oklahoma River.

While the timing for a MAPS III has been delayed due to improvements at Ford Center, Mayor Mick Cornett and leaders at the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber say a convention center is the next priority for the city.

A final report on “Core to Shore,” meanwhile, suggests the best location for a new convention center should be just south of Ford Center adjoining a new boulevard that will replace the current alignment of the Interstate 40 Crosstown Expressway.

“It’s at the top of the scheme of things with Core to Shore,” agreed Gathright. “It’s a foundation for the whole development because of what it can do for the whole boulevard, which will be finished before you know it.”

The students agree that ideally, the current Cox Convention Center site, north of Ford Center, is best situated for downtown’s existing hotels. But they say it’s a site that is no longer adequate if the city wants to grow its convention business.

“With what Oklahoma City needs, it just won’t fit there,” Gathright said. “There isn’t enough space. And another problem with that site is the space for loading docks. You take up so much of the street frontage with what should be a very pedestrian friendly part of downtown.”

With the site south of Ford Center, the loading docks could be located along Shields Boulevard, preserving the new boulevard as a pedestrian corridor.

Gathright’s plans call for that new corridor to be more than a place for out-of-towners. His designs call for retail all along the first floor of the convention center facing the boulevard. With ample curbside parking on the new boulevard and 1,000 parking spaces in the complex itself, he sees no problem making the convention center a 24/7 attraction with or without visitors.

“We could fill the street up with people even when there isn’t (anything) going on,” Gathright said. “You visit convention centers now and it’s almost a dead zone sometimes because of the lack of retail.”

Monroe, meanwhile, sees a new convention center as an opportunity to battle old stereotypes of Oklahoma. She noted a front page story in the New York Times last week, while complimentary of the city’s development of the Oklahoma River, still managed to start off with references to the Dust Bowl and the ‘Grapes of Wrath.’

“It’s burned in everybody’s mind, that ‘Grapes of Wrath’ image,” Monroe said. “A convention center is a great opportunity to change that — it can draw so many visitors.”

Monroe’s plans directly challenge those stereotypes by creating a roofline that will funnel rainwater into an interior courtyard. Glass bridges will then connect to the sunken courtyard.

“It would be lush with an ivy screen that stretches from the bottom of the courtyard to the top of the roof,” Monroe said. “We would be encouraging images that are opposite of stereotypical Dust Bowl Oklahoma.”

Namgoong, meanwhile, pursued another set of imagery, drawing her inspiration from the city’s diverse terrain.

“Oklahoma has a very diverse topography,” she said. “So I applied this topography to the convention center ... it would create memories to come back for tourists and the businessmen visiting. I see it like an art museum – as a traveler, I can go back and see their ideas, their culture, their community.”

Professor Hans Butzer, who designed the Oklahoma City National Memorial, said Core to Shore was a good exercise for his students, who also looked at arena designs, an intermodal transportation hub and housing. He recalled that previous classes provided early glimpses of how Bricktown and Deep Deuce might evolve after the passage of the original Metropolitan Area Projects.

“The fact Core to Shore has a master plan recently issued, but also continuing to evolve, is the perfect backdrop for these students and their education,” Butzer said. “It teaches that things like Core to Shore are living documents. This is real life. You put things out that make good sense, but as you put them out, other items come out that make sense as well. You play leap frog with ideas as they are evolving.”

jbrown84
05-01-2008, 10:17 AM
I wish we had pics of their designs.

CuatrodeMayo
05-01-2008, 10:24 AM
So I can poop on them!

Steve
05-01-2008, 10:38 AM
I will post them on my blog shortly

Pete
05-01-2008, 10:41 AM
Here's one:

http://olive.newsok.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=DOK/2008/05/01/19/Img/Pc0191000.jpg

metro
05-01-2008, 11:38 AM
Pete, that was my favorite rendering, I call it the "iceburg". Now that would turn some heads for OKC!!!!!

CuatrodeMayo
05-01-2008, 12:29 PM
Amateur, IMO.

David Pollard
05-01-2008, 12:51 PM
Amateur, IMO.
Hardly Amateurish, although from what I can see it does it does not look big enough. I HOPE we are talking here about a really large facility that could take any size of convention. If OKC could swing it, we should consider a Calatrava-designed convention center. Gehry would be good as well, but, frankly he has almost become too cliché.

After this facility is online, the perimeter of Cox center should be canibalized and turned into retail/hotel facilities. I proposed this for the Maps III plan. Think there are royalties involved?

Karried
05-01-2008, 12:52 PM
sheesh, at first glance I thought it was a cruise ship ( the stairs) running into an Iceberg! lol

I hate this.

ouguy23
05-01-2008, 12:56 PM
I like it..its different and it would be unique

David Pollard
05-01-2008, 01:00 PM
sheesh, at first glance I thought it was a cruise ship ( the stairs) running into an Iceberg! lol

I hate this.
Let's free our minds OKC! Otherwise we derserve the moniker of dust bowl capital! Iceberg maybe, but how did Gehry's museum in Bilbao come over at first? Shocking, and then amazing, and then.... icon!

Why not a Syndney Opera House or a Calatrava Aquarium in Valencia? OKC used to have some really innovative architecture. Think the Goff House or the Stage Center, (old Mummer's Theatre). If we REALLY want to be world class, we have to be prepared to take some architectural risks.

Saberman
05-01-2008, 01:15 PM
There were three designs pictured in paper, the first one you've seen in previous post. One of the other two was pretty plain, looks like a warehouse. The third one is a little more modern, kinda like the CHK boathouse.

Saberman
05-01-2008, 01:19 PM
Here is the link to the story:

[URL="http://newsok.com/ou-architects-see-new-center-anchoring-core-to-shore-development/article/3237321/?tm=1209642520[/URL]

They have a link to each of the students design, but no picture comes up. Don't know if it's just me, but you might try.

Sorry, can't seem to get the link to work.

Karried
05-01-2008, 01:24 PM
Let's free our minds OKC!


My mind is free.

I still don't like it .... it looks ridiculous... but that's just my opinion.

Saberman
05-01-2008, 01:29 PM
You go to newsok.com and go to the business section.

ouguy23
05-01-2008, 01:30 PM
In my opinion it looks AWESOME!

Karried
05-01-2008, 01:31 PM
OU architects see new center anchoring Core-to-Shore development | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/ou-architects-see-new-center-anchoring-core-to-shore-development/article/3237321/?tm=1209642520)

CuatrodeMayo
05-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Amateurish not because it is crazy, but because it is poorly designed. Like a 1st or 2nd year student designed it.

Karried
05-01-2008, 01:36 PM
I'd like to see this one.. this one sounds nice.



(http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)Monroe (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON), meanwhile, sees a new convention center as an opportunity to battle old stereotypes of Oklahoma. She noted a front page story in the (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)New York Times (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=The+New+York+Times+Company&CATEGORY=COMPANY) last week, while complimentary of the city’s development of the (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)Oklahoma River (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Oklahoma+River&CATEGORY=BODIES OF WATER), still managed to start off with references to the Dust Bowl and the ‘Grapes of Wrath.’
“It’s burned in everybody’s mind, that ‘Grapes of Wrath’ image,” (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)Monroe (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. “A convention center is a great opportunity to change that — it can draw so many visitors.”
(http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)Monroe (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)’s plans directly challenge those stereotypes by creating a roofline that will funnel rainwater into an interior courtyard. Glass bridges will then connect to the sunken courtyard. “It would be lush with an ivy screen that stretches from the bottom of the courtyard to the top of the roof,” (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)Monroe (http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON) said. “We would be encouraging images that are opposite of stereotypical Dust Bowl Oklahoma.”

(http://newsok.com/keysearch/?er=1&CANONICAL=Kim+Monroe&CATEGORY=PERSON)

Honestly, I'm not seeing the above giant ice cube as an anchor and pulling together Core ( downtown buildings) to Shore ( River) what does a giant ice looking sculpture have to do with anything in OK?

David Pollard
05-01-2008, 01:44 PM
I don't think we really have to look to the venacular for a convention center. It could indeed be interesting if done well and with local materials, but my greatest fear is that it would be some cozy suburban style box with "classic" columns and forest green porticos!

An expanded form of the new Native American Museum in Washington D.C. could be a direction we would want to go for an OKC convention center. Maybe a Gehry-type structure covered in local red sandstone instead of titanium?

TStheThird
05-01-2008, 01:49 PM
Luckily, these students will not be designing the real deal.

David Pollard
05-01-2008, 01:51 PM
Wouldn't be so sure of that. We are talking a couple of years in the future. Besides, let's make use of their talent and ideas for something that really works for OKC!

Saberman
05-01-2008, 04:02 PM
The design by Monroe, IMO is the best start for a possible new convention center. The ice cube and the warehouse don't trip my switch.

FritterGirl
05-01-2008, 04:08 PM
I still must be missing something. I can click to the article, but can't find any link to the actual renderings.

metro
05-01-2008, 04:11 PM
For all you complainers of the "iceberg concept", go to the OKC Central blog and check out the rest of the concepts.

jbrown84
05-01-2008, 04:45 PM
I like the 2nd one, the non-iceberg blue one, but none of them do I LOVE.

What about something similar to the Getty Center in LA?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2346/2433215800_706d755bce.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/2433215806_dc2c675921.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2433215830_3f7221e9f9.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2363/2433215828_69325e7b61.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2057/2435187307_8355f46dde.jpg?v=0

Steve
05-01-2008, 04:48 PM
At the risk of upsetting somebody, I've posted all three concepts and some drawings not published with the story at my blog, OKC Central — All about downtown OKC (http://www.okccentral.com). I'll try to add more drawings tonight if I can figure out how to convert a tif to a jpg.
I still must be missing something. I can click to the article, but can't find any link to the actual renderings.

BG918
05-01-2008, 05:29 PM
More of the amateur warehouse. :tiphat:

With Bricktown so close and the Ford Center across the boulevard I wanted to keep those forms and materials but also create a modern look with all the glass. The sweeping roofline does recall a hanger/warehouse but I wanted it to reflect the area's industrial past and with that the architectural vernacular of Oklahoma City. I also included rainwater collection as part of my sustainability plan along with many other features such as photovoltaic panels on the roof. The "ribbon" skylights and windows above the exhibit hall would lessen the need for artificial lighting during the day as would all the glass in the prefunction space and grand halls.

There is a main entrance at the west (right) side of the building into a grand hall and another entrance for the 3,000 seat auditorium, something the City wants included. Retail along the boulevard and creating a mixed use pedestrian friendly environment were priorities. Also creating an urban "street wall" here along with the proposed convention hotel at Robinson. Notice all loading dock functions along Shields both on the first level for ballrooms, kitchen, and auditorium and on the third level for the exhibit hall via ramp, similar to what they have at Denver's convention center. All parking is located in a garage underneath the exhibit hall on the southside of the building accessible by SW 5th and SW 7th, and parallel parking on the boulevard.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/blvd2_colorcopy.jpg

A closeup of the main entrance, which is directly across the boulevard from the (new) main entrance to the Ford Center. The main entrance takes you into a grand hall that runs the length of the building where you can access ballrooms (first level), meeting rooms (first and second levels), the 400,000 SF exhibit hall (third level), and the multi-level parking garage underneath the exhibit hall on the southside of SW 5th. SW 5th Street runs through the building under the exhibit hall and could eventually connect a redevelopment of the Producers Co-op east of the tracks to the park and Robinson. Retail space on both sides, and a terrace above where the exhibit hall prefunction space is located. The bris-soleil system is meant to shield the grand hall from the west sun while not blocking views.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/blvd3_colorcopy.jpg

A very schematic interior view looking north-northwest from the exhibit hall prefunction space on the third level with the covered outdoor terrace. This space would have some amazing skyline views above the Ford Center.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/interior2_colorcopy.jpg

Another view of the main entrance and grand hall from the inside. There would likely be escalators in addition to the stairs I've shown.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/interior_colorcopy.jpg

This project was a huge challenge. Designing something this big (approx. 1.4 million SF) is tough, especially with site constraints in the downtown area. I prefer designing small urban mixed-use projects on a Auto Alley/Campus Corner scale myself and would never want to design something this big...but I hope our research and ideas can help whoever ends up doing it.

Steve
05-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Hi BG198, I'm Steve... now we've met online and offline!
Now you can share with everybody just what a bore it is to be interviewed by me. I was having trouble converting your sketches to jpgs. Can I use these to add to my blog?

BG918
05-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Sure Steve, nice meeting you too. I hoped you liked what our studio worked on this past year. There are some great designs and ideas for some of OKC's upcoming projects like the transit center and convention hotel. I'll add some more stuff later, maybe a site plan, floor plans, and the program would be interesting for people to see.

Pete
05-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Very nice, BG. I can only imagine the amount of effort that goes into a project like that.

Your concept reminds of the Midwest Airlines Center in Milwaukee, which draws architectural elements and materials from the surrounding buildings (and is very impressive in person):

http://www.midwestairlinescenter.com/gallery/imgs/midwest13.jpg

jbrown84
05-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Lots of good ideas there, BG! I don't think anyone ever called your design "amateur". Cuatro said that about the "iceberg" one.

Karried
05-01-2008, 06:17 PM
yes, BG918, I never saw anything other than the Iceberg .. (which I don't like one bit) .. your design has a professional, streamlined look.. which I do like. Your design doesn't look amateurish at all.

Pete
05-01-2008, 06:20 PM
Portland has a very unique convention center, which is fundamentally basic but features a couple of very distinct spires that can be seen for miles. It's very striking:

http://convention-hotels.com/images/portland_convention_center.jpg

Steve
05-01-2008, 06:30 PM
In defense of the iceberg, I'm posting more of her sketches and a comment she sent with it.

Steve
05-01-2008, 06:40 PM
I recall another architectural drawing that drew some different responses when it first went public. It was for the Oklahoma City National Memorial Gates of Time, which are now hailed as one of the best memorial designs in the world and were designed by none other than BG918's professor, Hans Butzer.

jbrown84
05-01-2008, 06:41 PM
I wasn't in on such discussions that long ago, but I can't imagine myself disliking the Memorial design.

Steve
05-01-2008, 06:53 PM
I'll even admit - of all the designs I saw, it was far from my favorite. But now I can't imagine it being anything but Hans' design. It's brilliant in its simplicity. (BG918, keep my initial reaction between us and the thousands of other members of Pete's little hobby site here, ok?)
;)

sgt. pepper
05-01-2008, 07:47 PM
My two cents......Personally, i do not like neither one of them, specially the iceburg.
I like what Pete posted of Portland, now that is impressive, except it needs a 25 story hotel next to it. What does everybody think should so where the Cox is now....a hotel, a NBA practice facilty, a parking garage, a grocery store, super wal-mart?

jbrown84
05-01-2008, 07:53 PM
a parking garage, a grocery store, super wal-mart?

NO NO NO NO NO. I like BG's idea of filling in the edges of the Cox with retail and hotels. Basically keep the arena for Big XII tournaments and such, but lose most of the convention space in favor of other, more pedestrian friendly things.

wsucougz
05-01-2008, 08:06 PM
Awhile back someone posted a picture of a new convention center that was bronzish in color - could have been in Europe or the states. I can't find it but I remember thinking it was one of the coolest buildings ever - looked kind of like something out of Dune. Anyone?

sgt. pepper
05-01-2008, 08:09 PM
I'll add some more stuff later, maybe a site plan, floor plans, and the program would be interesting for people to see.
Yes BG, that would be awsome! Out of the three, your design is the best one IMO, very thought out and functional...good job.

Platemaker
05-01-2008, 08:11 PM
Honestly, I'm not seeing the above giant ice cube as an anchor and pulling together Core ( downtown buildings) to Shore ( River) what does a giant ice looking sculpture have to do with anything in OK?

DUH!!! A giant ice cube makes total sense... it's representative of all those "blizzards" that descend upon OKC out of nowhere... didn't you read the Top 10 Places Not to Visit list???

brianinok
05-01-2008, 08:26 PM
I like BG's design. I also like Milwaukee's center. Though, I wouldn't be opposed to jazzing up their designs a little with a more modern bent. But, I really like the use of brick and glass. Across the street will be the brick and glass Ford Center, and just around the corner is Bricktown. Something that can fit with the old and new like this would be good, IMO.

FritterGirl
05-01-2008, 08:40 PM
I really like some elements of each of the designs, although agree I don't see a "tie in" with the ice cube and Oklahoma.

BG's design is certainly the most "classic" of the four and would blend in well with what we are doing, although IMO it could be made to look a little more dynamic.

I am not sure about the Milwaukee Center. Something about it's modern "Georgian" style screams OU or OCU campus to me.

I will say I like the concept of using the types of materials that are found in Oklahoma, not unlike what we have at our own Will Rogers Airport.

If we really want to go for the fantastical, how about something like the "bird's nest" look of the Beijing 2008 Olympic stadium (http://www.enerpac.com/html/Projects/birdsnest/ima/Beijing_Birdsnest_4_LR_465.jpg). Talk about really cool! (http://jawaexpress.com/destination/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/beijing_national_stadium.jpg) And while it in itself doesn't scream out "Oklahoma," there's something that reminds me about the multiple "nest" strands that remind me of wind and water - two things that go with Oklahoma!

I can kind of imagine that with that blue-green glass (think 360 building) reflecting light out from the center. It would be dynamic, iconic and certainly something that would make us stand out from other cities. Of course, it would probably take MAPS IV, V, VI and VII to get it! :smile:

okiebadger
05-01-2008, 08:47 PM
The Milwaukee center looks pretty good. I want a building that looks like a building and doesn't try to shriek ART at us.

CuatrodeMayo
05-01-2008, 09:39 PM
Good job with the SketchUp my friend, BG.

I like the idea of keeping and urban wall. IMO this project was my favorite of the 3. The other seem to be trying so hard to be different that they are coming off as silly.

I wit ya on the big projects...in the last year I have done a half a city block mid-rise development, and terminal at DFW, and city block high-rise development (around 2.5 million sq ft).

Good job.

(we need a members project thread)

jbrown84
05-01-2008, 10:04 PM
[QUOTE/]DUH!!! A giant ice cube makes total sense... it's representative of all those "blizzards" that descend upon OKC out of nowhere... didn't you read the Top 10 Places Not to Visit list???

Of course. It happens all the time, just like in The Day After Tomorrow!

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/the_day_after_tomorrow/capitoldestroy.jpg
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/the_day_after_tomorrow/commuters.jpg
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/the_day_after_tomorrow/nysteps.jpg
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/the_day_after_tomorrow/icyliberty.jpg

Oh GAWD the Smell!
05-02-2008, 03:25 AM
We should just copy the San Diego Convention Center...Then stick a buffalo out front.

sroberts24
05-06-2008, 06:47 AM
BG918 yours is by far my fav. i love the retail along the streets i think it is just what the city leaders are looking for, and looks a lot like what they were suggesting in the C2S renderings.... Very Nicely Done!

Steve
05-06-2008, 07:11 AM
Here's a question: how many members on this board are either in architecture, design, or are studying to be an architect?

Karried
05-06-2008, 07:14 AM
We should just copy the San Diego Convention Center...Then stick a buffalo out front.


LOL... that cracked me up.

Yes, everyone is right.. I forgot about the blizzards! Now the Ice Cube makes perfect sense! Carry on. lol

kevinpate
05-06-2008, 07:22 AM
I see at least one tie in to a giant ice cube. Flows rather well to me with the notion of hell freezing over as OKC shook off its persecution complex and grew up.
:)

Karried
05-06-2008, 07:24 AM
I'm never growing up..... it's no fun.

sroberts24
05-06-2008, 02:10 PM
i'm a PR major, but if i didn't hate math and was smart enough to, i would def. be in architecture, but instead, i'm studien my but off to try to get into law school so i can be a sports agent, but thats another 4 years of school down the road

David Pollard
05-06-2008, 02:34 PM
Another idea: The relatively new National Musuem of the American Indian in Washington D.C. makes beautiful use of natural stone on a curving surface. Furthermore, its crest actually flares out from the base, giving it a very dramatic street profile.

A similar concept could be used for OKC with native red sandstone or granite. Inter-laced with lots of glass, it could do justice to the spirit of Oklahoma, while still giving the modern message we are hoping for. Let's think big scale, and world class and I think the conventions will come in droves!

Have a look:

http://www.nmai.si.edu/dc/files/NMAI_bro_Eng.pdf

mmonroe
05-06-2008, 11:52 PM
Make Monroe's concept more rounded on the edges and I think you've got a solid design. IMHO!

Spartan
05-07-2008, 09:01 AM
Amateurish not because it is crazy, but because it is poorly designed. Like a 1st or 2nd year student designed it.

Please.

CuatrodeMayo
05-13-2008, 05:58 PM
Here's a question: how many members on this board are either in architecture, design, or are studying to be an architect?

I just graduated from OSU with a degree in Architecture.

mmonroe
05-13-2008, 06:10 PM
Take that STEVE!! HAHAHA..

I'm a mass comm major.. so i don't apply to this field....