Sonics owners back drive for "Big-League Tax"

NewsOK.com Article (http://newsok.com/article/3228938/?print=1)

LOL!!!!

Those emails are a little damaging to the "insiders owners group", ya think?

Interesting stuff.

If you want me to show you what it's like to be a billionaire, meet me at Iron Starr at noon tomorrow.

-Tom Ward

If you want me to show you what it's like to be a billionaire, meet me at Iron Starr at noon tomorrow.

-Tom Ward

Unabashed troll. You don't have the balls to meet anyone with a billion dollars. Its really interesting how many people talk, but never follow through. This puts you in the tire kicker category. Small change. You'll see. You also mischaracterized what my offer was all about. I didn't say come see what its like, I said I will show you how, free of charge. You didn't have the balls to ask or show up. Some have open minds in this forum. Not you. Go kick the tires and scream me too.

My offer s still open. Those who responded, thanks.

So let's just say I went to Iron Starr that day and asked for "Dustbowl." Think about that for a second, douchebag.

So let's just say I went to Iron Starr that day and asked for "Dustbowl." Think about that for a second, douchebag.

If you did, sorry the meeting was cancelled because an out of town poster was sick. I have proof. If you want to come, you are invited. Send me a pm, since I'm trying to get several people's schedules worked out. I didn't expect someone to show up without telling me. My fault I guess. Next time ask for Robert at Iron Starr. He knows who Dustbowl is. I'm not a douchebag, I'm an as%$^$e. Get it right. Send a PM, no hard feelings.

The same thing happened in Houston. The team's owner spent the majority of the funds that advertised the arena vote. Clay Bennett and the gang knew that if the arena bill here didn't pass they'd either be stuck in Seattle with the Key and a lousy lease, or the Sonics would be moving to KC or Vegas. It was probably more important to them than any of us. Duh. I donated money too......probably a comparable percentage of my income to what they did.

yeah, I donated a dime too :)

I didn't donate $$$ (unless it is true that time IS money) but I'm glad to have helped a little in the cause, and I'm sure as heck glad they DID finance a good piece of the campaign.

Let's see ... folks who give a good solid fig about scouting are the folks who tend to donate the most to scouting. The folks who give their hearts and minds through their faith are the folks who support any particular church to keep it there for themselves and others. The folks who relish a particular foodie hole are the folks who tend to visit the most and spend their money there.

Could it truly be a surprise, to anyone with an IQ in higher dbl digits, that the folks who so wanted to see NBA here they went and dropped huge sums to buy a team would also be the major backers of a vote intended to both benefit the city's arena and their potential work site AND make it clear the city as a whole wants NBA here.

That the Sonics owners gave mightily to the pro side of the renovation question has to qualify as the biggest non news story of 2008.

Now if they had not deeply invested in that campaign, given their obvious interest in its outcome, that would be a bigger news story, at least to me.

It just makes since. It's a business, you have to spend money to make money.

It just makes since. It's a business, you have to spend money to make money.

UUHHH they spent YOUR money. Tax for the rich.
I give up. I need an IQ higher than 80 to be able to do with this issue. Dream a little dream for me.

That the Sonics owners gave mightily to the pro side of the renovation question has to qualify as the biggest non news story of 2008.

Yeah, and they got you to subsidize their BIg League City idea. Thanks Mr. Taxpayer. Go Oklahona Twisters!!! Or whatever they call it.

Could it truly be a surprise, to anyone with an IQ in higher dbl digits, that the folks who so wanted to see NBA here they went and dropped huge sums to buy a team would also be the major backers of a vote intended to both benefit the city's arena and their potential work site AND make it clear the city as a whole wants NBA here.

That the Sonics owners gave mightily to the pro side of the renovation question has to qualify as the biggest non news story of 2008.

SHHHH!!! Don't tell anybody at the same time they are high- fiving about bringing the BB team to OKC, they were telling Stern and everyone else that they were negotiating in good faith. Morals and ethics only matter if you get to watch a BB team YOU paid the majority of the upgrades for by duping the taxpyers for. Nice ethics. Go Twisters!!!! You should have worked for Enron, you would have been a super-star.

Who were they negotiating with, Dustbowl? The Muckleshoots, who offered free land and nothing else? There was no one in Seattle who made any sort of offer that could be negotiated. It's hard to negotiate in good faith when no one comes to the table with an offer, or even an offer to put a proposal up for a vote.

Who were they negotiating with, Dustbowl? The Muckleshoots, who offered free land and nothing else? There was no one in Seattle who made any sort of offer that could be negotiated. It's hard to negotiate in good faith when no one comes to the table with an offer, or even an offer to put a proposal up for a vote.

Seattle had a contract. Period. When you buy a team and say you are negotiang in good faith to keep the team there while you are sending emails to the minority owners about your true intentions about moving the team to OKC, I see moral, ethical and major legal problems. If you don't, I don't care.

I was more or less talking about Clay's LLC donating money to the campaign.

Seattle had a contract. Period. When you buy a team and say you are negotiang in good faith to keep the team there while you are sending emails to the minority owners about your true intentions about moving the team to OKC, I see moral, ethical and major legal problems. If you don't, I don't care.

Agree with Betts...Turns out there was nada to negotiate...Bennett's crew was the only one to come up with anything worth mentioning over a 15 month period

State turned down Schultz, Stern and Ballmer over the last few years...Would have been a waste of time anyway

OK, seriously, DB, do you question in the same manner the morals and ethics of the companies in which you trade? If you have the resume you claim, you know as well as any body else that they have done nothing unusual and, no matter what they say publicly, they are always working for the shareholders and their wishes.

How do you turn $1000 into $1M in a year: You pay attention. Admit it. You spend your time looking for angles just like they have. You spend much of the time looking for directors who are willing to say the right thing publicly, while being able to do the "right" thing behind their boardroom doors, especially if it's not the same thing.

I know and you know you are not getting this claimed 100000% return trading on ethics. So, the pomposity of your self congratulatory posts conflicts greatly with your position of moral superiority when discussing the actions of Bennett's group. Do you validate the ethical integrity of all the companies in which you trade, or do you simply operate under a convenient disconnect which you use to detach yourself of any responsibility, ethical or moral, for their actions?

Seattle had a contract. Period. When you buy a team and say you are negotiang in good faith to keep the team there while you are sending emails to the minority owners about your true intentions about moving the team to OKC, I see moral, ethical and major legal problems. If you don't, I don't care.

Again, there was no one with whom to negotiate. Leave that word out and I'm fine with your statement, but what is the sound of one hand clapping? Same with one party negotiating. Sorry, but Seattle was told from day one that they had to build an arena or the team would leave. With the exception of Margarita Prentice, they ignored Bennett and the deadline. Did you see any e-mails where the owners were discussing sabotaging the arena process? That would have been unethical, but I found nary a one. You can guess they would have been included if the Seattle lawyers had managed to find one as well.

OK, seriously, DB, do you question in the same manner the morals and ethics of the companies in which you trade? If you have the resume you claim, you know as well as any body else that they have done nothing unusual and, no matter what they say publicly, they are always working for the shareholders and their wishes.

How do you turn $1000 into $1M in a year: You pay attention. Admit it. You spend your time looking for angles just like they have. You spend much of the time looking for directors who are willing to say the right thing publicly, while being able to do the "right" thing behind their boardroom doors, especially if it's not the same thing.

I know and you know you are not getting this claimed 100000% return trading on ethics. So, the pomposity of your self congratulatory posts conflicts greatly with your position of moral superiority when discussing the actions of Bennett's group. Do you validate the ethical integrity of all the companies in which you trade, or do you simply operate under a convenient disconnect which you use to detach yourself of any responsibility, ethical or moral, for their actions?

I have NEVER traded a stock based on the ethics of the CEO, or anyone else. You are trying to bootstrap the two and it doesn't work. Trading is based on more technical factors which don't consider ethics and morals. Note: I said trading not investing. Stocks are a tradeable commodity just like sugar, wheat or orange juice. Investing is another cat. Trading also is based on the public's perception of value. When I hear things like: Oklahoma is recession proof because of our strong connection to the oil and gas industry, my ears prick up. Everyone is always the most optimistic at the top of a cycle and they can't see the impending train coming at them because of their skewed perception. Dig deeper behind the surface of all the feel good statements and find a better angle of reality. That's what I do to make my trades. I fade public opinion because they are always wrong.

Again, there was no one with whom to negotiate. Leave that word out and I'm fine with your statement, but what is the sound of one hand clapping? Same with one party negotiating. Sorry, but Seattle was told from day one that they had to build an arena or the team would leave. With the exception of Margarita Prentice, they ignored Bennett and the deadline. Did you see any e-mails where the owners were discussing sabotaging the arena process? That would have been unethical, but I found nary a one. You can guess they would have been included if the Seattle lawyers had managed to find one as well.

I see your point. It just makes the OKC Group's statements to the public, Stern, etc. that much more ridiculous. Why make those statements when everyone on earth knew what they wanted to do in the first place. Its the behind the scenes emails that make them look bad in contrast to their public statements.

We will get a team, I don't doubt that at all. What concerns me is not the fan support, but the corporate support if we start losing companies like Devon, etc. Without the corporate support this deal is cooked. I won't argue why corporate support is suspect to me. I have made that clear on other threads.

You are trying to bootstrap the two and it doesn't work. Trading is based on more technical factors which don't consider ethics and morals. Note: I said trading not investing.

So, there is the disconnect I was talking about. You feel that since your decisions are primarily based on a reaction to or speculation of market valuation, that you are absolved of responsibility for the moral or ethical implications of any decisions or actions made by the participants in that market. That is to say that you feel it's okay to get paid for an amoral or unethical move in the market because you did not participate in the decision to make that move. You just correctly anticipated the market reaction to that move.

That's kind of like saying prostitution may be amoral, but trading on the value of prostitutes is not.

Was their ultimate goal to bring the sonics to OKC? Yes. But I believe they somewhat were truthful in trying to build a new arena. Why wouldnt they at least try, it would have increased the value of the team tremendously

Back on topic - why does Dustbowl find it strange that the Sonics would have an interest in seeing the Ford Center remodeled? After all, they already made a petition to move the Sonics to OKC and that is public knowledge everywhere. They also paid for a previous proposal in Seattle. Was there any shock that the Sonics financed a new arena plan for Seattle? Biggest non-story this year!

Hey DB, how far are you away from making that first million?

Dustbowl, you are simply amazing in your vast inerrant knowledge of the truth! Why you've not yet been engaged, and been well paid for, the delivery of the wisdom which you generously and freely grace us with here by the body politic and/or the private wealth of the community to assist in their making sound decisions escapes me! Doubtless, that day (a) will yet come, and/or (b) it will prove to be regretted if doom happens before that time and someone is yet left standing to look back and second-guess about such a horrific omission!

This mixed-bag article by Bomani Jones at ESPN Page 2 - Jones: Money well spent (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/080414) contains some truth, I think, about your views about the "wisdom" of Oklahoma City and/or the State enacting ordinances and/or legislation to help with relocation of the Seattle team to Oklahoma City by what you apparently perceive to be its money-grubbing owners:


Think about it. Clay Bennett and his buddies bought the Sonics because they want to have a basketball team in their hometown. That's all it was. Oklahoma City is definitely growing -- it's certainly not the city it was when I visited my grandparents there as a kid -- but I can't imagine what kind of book-cooking would have to take place to make me believe the Sonics would be more profitable in a metropolitan area about the size of Birmingham as opposed to one more comparable to Phoenix.

Basically, a few rich guys want to be able to watch NBA basketball courtside without catching a flight, so they went and got a squad. Think someone's special for having a house in the Hamptons? These cats bought the Hamptons, and put it down the street from their houses. They win.

Clay Bennett's not a popular man in Seattle. But do you blame him for wanting an NBA team in his hometown?

If ever there was an example where a town owed its tax dollars to a professional owner, this is it. Bennett and company put up $350 million so Oklahoma City could have an NBA team. The least Oklahomans could do is put something in the hat.

Yet, as reptilian as this whole ordeal has been, there's something admirable about what Bennett's doing, too. Oklahoma City never would have gotten an expansion franchise, no matter how fantastic the crowds were while OKC served as the Hornets' foster city. Bennett's audacity, all the way down to the bald-faced whoppers he's told since he bought the team, have a quality that isn't entirely repulsive. This probably isn't Bennett's dream, but it's certainly his wish, and it's amazing that he has come so close to making it come true.
I do enjoy reading your comments, Dustbowl ... it's always good to test one's perceptions by the contradictory views of others ... and I hope that you were successful vis a vis your recent trip to Mexico to enable/facilitate a small part of it to become a part of Oklahoma City! I'm hoping to be one of the earliest participants in your successful venture! (Just kidding, of course ... or were you being serious?)

But, as a small, fat, and almost 65 year-old guy, I'll not be taking you up on your offer to meet you at a bar or restaurant somewhere to really learn all of what you have the power and knowledge to do ... I have no wish to get whacked and am generally smart enough to stay out of harm's way, at least physically!

Kidding aside, it is possible, I think, to see these and other Oklahoma City developments in a positive way and without wearing rose-colored-glasses while doing so ... I think you call guys like me, "OKC Cheerleaders" ... and I accept that that's part of who I am ... but, you, on the other hand, do give all appearances of relishing in the opposite, the "negative spin zone," or so it seems to me. Your chosen "handle" may or may not be significant about how you identify yourself or your city (and mine), in that regard. Or, perhaps you simply thought that the name was rooted in history, relevant to today and how you perceive Oklahoma City to be today, and/or you were just giving a stab at being clever.

In balance and to be fair, perhaps you've elsewhere written in OkcTalk about one or more things you perceive to be with a more positive "spin" ... about current events and/or Oklahoma City, generally. I've not searched your posts ... won't do so ...so maybe I've missed something "positive" that you've had to say about Oklahoma City. I hope that I did miss something, and that you did.

Dustbowl, you are simply amazing in your vast inerrant knowledge of the truth! Why you've not yet been engaged, and been well paid for, the delivery of the wisdom which you generously and freely grace us with here by the body politic and/or the private wealth of the community to assist in their making sound decisions escapes me! Doubtless, that day (a) will yet come, and/or (b) it will prove to be regretted if doom happens before that time and someone is yet left standing to look back and second-guess about such a horrific omission!

I don't "get paid" for my wisdom, I earn the money myself by reading mountains of research and taking calculated risk.


But, as a small, fat, and almost 65 year-old guy, I'll not be taking you up on your offer to meet you at a bar or restaurant somewhere to really learn all of what you have the power and knowledge to do ... I have no wish to get whacked and am generally smart enough to stay out of harm's way, at least physically!

You are welcome to come. I won't start a fight. PM if you have any interest.

Kidding aside, it is possible, I think, to see these and other Oklahoma City developments in a positive way and without wearing rose-colored-glasses while doing so ... I think you call guys like me, "OKC Cheerleaders" ... and I accept that that's part of who I am ... but, you, on the other hand, do give all appearances of relishing in the opposite, the "negative spin zone," or so it seems to me. Your chosen "handle" may or may not be significant about how you identify yourself or your city (and mine), in that regard. Or, perhaps you simply thought that the name was rooted in history, relevant to today and how you perceive Oklahoma City to be today, and/or you were just giving a stab at being clever.

A little of all of the above.l

In balance and to be fair, perhaps you've elsewhere written in OkcTalk about one or more things you perceive to be with a more positive "spin" ... about current events and/or Oklahoma City, generally. I've not searched your posts ... won't do so ...so maybe I've missed something "positive" that you've had to say about Oklahoma City. I hope that I did miss something, and that you did.

I have posted positive comments elsewhere.

OK, seriously, DB, do you question in the same manner the morals and ethics of the companies in which you trade? If you have the resume you claim, you know as well as any body else that they have done nothing unusual and, no matter what they say publicly, they are always working for the shareholders and their wishes.

How do you turn $1000 into $1M in a year: You pay attention. Admit it. You spend your time looking for angles just like they have. You spend much of the time looking for directors who are willing to say the right thing publicly, while being able to do the "right" thing behind their boardroom doors, especially if it's not the same thing.

I know and you know you are not getting this claimed 100000% return trading on ethics. So, the pomposity of your self congratulatory posts conflicts greatly with your position of moral superiority when discussing the actions of Bennett's group. Do you validate the ethical integrity of all the companies in which you trade, or do you simply operate under a convenient disconnect which you use to detach yourself of any responsibility, ethical or moral, for their actions?

First, I don't have the responsibility as a stockholder for the ethics and morals of the CEO, etc. The CEO and Board have the responsibility to me as a stockholder for the ethics and morals of the company. See Sarbanes-Oxley legislation.

I don't look for crooked CEO's to make money from. I look at the business internals and the technical indications on the stock charts. The technicals tell all.

You don't care for me. Its obvious and I don't care. You are stepping in any area you can to try and "get me". In the process you are overreaching and it really makes you look uneducated in these areas. Short version: you don't have a clue about these things and stop trying so hard to get me.

So, there is the disconnect I was talking about. You feel that since your decisions are primarily based on a reaction to or speculation of market valuation, that you are absolved of responsibility for the moral or ethical implications of any decisions or actions made by the participants in that market. That is to say that you feel it's okay to get paid for an amoral or unethical move in the market because you did not participate in the decision to make that move. You just correctly anticipated the market reaction to that move.

That's kind of like saying prostitution may be amoral, but trading on the value of prostitutes is not.

See? You don't know what you are talking about. This post goes in the archives for future enjoyment. Really, stop trying so hard to get me in an area you know nothing about.

Back on topic - why does Dustbowl find it strange that the Sonics would have an interest in seeing the Ford Center remodeled? After all, they already made a petition to move the Sonics to OKC and that is public knowledge everywhere. They also paid for a previous proposal in Seattle. Was there any shock that the Sonics financed a new arena plan for Seattle? Biggest non-story this year!

Hey DB, how far are you away from making that first million?

That's done. Are you keeping up with the house payments?

Dustbowl has been banned, as he was nothing but a troublemaker.