View Full Version : What's Banta up to lately?



metro
04-08-2008, 09:38 AM
Banta sure has been quiet lately, and I'm pretty confident that the Office Depot isn't happening considering no work has been done in months and there is a For Sale/Lease sign on the property now. Plaza Court has been progressing slowly. I heard Banta has a few tenants for other buildings he hasn't announced yet (understandably so if Office Depot did back out).

Anyone know anything new?

Matt
04-08-2008, 11:51 AM
Last I heard, he was still driving a cab.

trison
04-10-2008, 02:55 PM
I wish I was driving the cab he has. Last time I saw him he was driving a big white mercedes : ) I heard that he has Plaza Court and Walker Shops at 100% occupancy but hasn't announced who the tenants are. I noticed that they are painting the inside of the building between 1492 and the bridal shop so I'm sure there is something going in there.

I know that he has moved his construction guys to 10th and Robinson and has started on working on the Packard Building (Pat's Bar) and Hadden Hall. I know that he has been before the Downtown Design Committee every month since October trying to get approvals on the Cline, Hadden Hall, Guardian and the Packard Building. I hear that he has a couple of restaurants already on line for the Packard Building but he is sure keeping quiet. I also heard that he has made a deal on the old funeral home on Robinson with a medical group that is going to occupy the entire building.

Rumor is that he has made deals on most of the properties that he owns west of Shartel but it seems that the Office Depot deal is dead. He told the city last spring if they didn't approve the site by June that he was going to lose them and sure enough in September they finally got around to approving it. Based on the sign being on the property I would say that the deal is dead. That's a shame since even Office Depot's real estate manager showed the plans at the ISCS held here last summer that showed the site and he stated that they were anxious to get started on construction because it had to be delivered by January. Rumor is that Office Depot still wants the site but not until 2009 now since they missed being able to get the store counted for 2007 and they already had all of their new stores committed to for 2008.

I've seen in the paper recently where he has sold a few of the buildings in Midtwon to people that are going to occupy the buildings and that he has stated that he has 5 other properties sold to other owner occupants.

Knowing Banta he has everything lined up in Midtown and he is out looking for his next development project. I know that he really hates being in the public eye so that is probably why we haven't heard anything lately. I personally think that he has done an outstanding job in turning an area that was blighted into something really cool. Between what he has done and is doing and with St. Anthony's growth Midtown is totally different than it was just a short time ago.

shane453
04-10-2008, 03:49 PM
He's still probably my favorite developer... Quiet, low-key, focused on reusing structures. Creative and VERY good at signing tenants. When you think about it, he's pretty much single-handedly behind Midtown's success. Sure, there is Sieber and Overholser and Harvey Lofts- but could those have been possible without the promise of the Banta Renaissance?

metro
04-10-2008, 08:28 PM
Overholser Green, HA! Let's not count on that until we see workers out there. No telling what type of delays and revisions we'll see.

trison
04-11-2008, 08:56 AM
Banta is not involved in that deal. If he was there would already be dirt moving.

onthestrip
04-11-2008, 09:54 AM
What about the small building just south of 1492, is there something going in there?

metro
04-11-2008, 10:04 AM
Banta is not involved in that deal. If he was there would already be dirt moving.

Of course I know that, but poster shane above mentioned it, and I laughed. We all know it's an OCURA project and who knows when it will get off ground, how long it will take, and how different it will be than originally proposed. It's already changed after they were awarded the land.

metro
04-11-2008, 10:05 AM
What about the small building just south of 1492, is there something going in there?

Gaijin Sushi - Midtown location, they are also opening a downtown location in the Park Harvey any day now, as soon as the city gives their permit.

jbrown84
04-11-2008, 10:51 AM
My biggest concern is what he will do with the two buildings at 10th & Broadway. I really think they need to be retail on the ground floor with residential above.

metro
04-11-2008, 11:03 AM
I agree, I contacted Banta's office and emailed them my concerns about those properties. They are marketing them as Class A office space. Those are PRIME retail spots and I hate to see them wasted as more office space. AA has so much potential and TOO much ground floor office space.

OKCMallen
04-11-2008, 11:17 AM
I agree, I contacted Banta's office and emailed them my concerns about those properties. They are marketing them as Class A office space. Those are PRIME retail spots and I hate to see them wasted as more office space. AA has so much potential and TOO much ground floor office space.

I dunno, AA is not pedestrian friendly, IMO, with Broadway separating the two sides. Just my $.02 Specialty stores people will drive to are good tehre, but I don't know about it being a walkaround retail hub.

trison
04-11-2008, 11:26 AM
I don't see how you can have retail in either of those buildings. No parking....I'm already worried that the new tenants in Mason's building on Broadway are not going to make because of parking. Housing might work in the 1100 building but I don't see that going into 1101. It's too high profile for housing and we need more employers in Midtown if housing is going to work. The more bodies that we can get in Midtown will help in getting retail in the future.

jbrown84
04-11-2008, 12:28 PM
But we don't need bodies that leave at 5:00, like we already have thousands of. We need bodies that are there at night an on the weekends. Those people will visit these retail establishments and they won't need to park.

trison
04-13-2008, 02:35 PM
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see more retail and a lot more residential built in Midtown. I would rather see a couple of 1,000 units available to rent at an affordable price than all of the high price condo's that are going up. The more people we have living in downtown, midtown, deep duece and bricktown will increase the odds of us being able to attract real retail to the areas not just restaurants. We need several more Legacy type properties being developed. I just want them to look nicer than the Legacy. This thing will look terrible in a few more years with the amount of "stucco" that they put up. It's obvious that developers can use brick but the city continues to let them get by with building unattractive and unimaginative buildings. If you think that a developer cannot afford brick then go check out Banta's properties around Francis. He removed all of the siding on a two story building and rebricked the whole thing. The other building at 12th and Francis didn't have a single brick on it and now its bricked up all the way to the top. I have a feeling that Banta is trying to remodel as many of the existing structures that he has to fill up with office and retail/resturants. I've heard him explain at a luncheon once that it's almost impossible to renovate an existing building and convert to housing without having to hang a huge price tag on the units. He states that it is alot less expensive to build new housing than converting existing buildings. I get the feeling that he is trying to develop a neighborhood that will attractive residents and that he will probably build new housing on most of the land that he has in the area (which is a lot). I have seen several designs that he has drawn that showed retail on the ground floor with 3 to 5 story residential above it, almost a village look or a 5 story Plaza Court. I imagine he is trying to fill up the buildings that he has with commercial tenants so that the rent is covering the note payments and then he will start several new developments in the area once he has some positive cash flow. He has stated on more than one occassion that he is trying to build something that his grandchildren will be proud of and I'm glad that he is in Midtown.

mmonroe
04-13-2008, 04:30 PM
Well, here's to Banta! :Smiley051

jbrown84
04-14-2008, 11:52 AM
That makes sense.

mecarr
08-07-2008, 07:36 AM
He has many projects underway, anyone know how their coming?
I haven't seen anything done yet to the Olser building which is across from 1492, or with the Marion building on 110 NW 10th, Hadden Hall on NW 10th, or the Guardian on 11th and Robinson. All of these are planned to be converted into residential units which would be a great addition to Midtown.

The skyline snapshot just says that "planning and renovations" are underway. I wonder if the credit crunch is making it more difficult for him to obtain financing?

metro
08-07-2008, 08:18 AM
Bob Howard is his cash cow, so I doubt financing is the issue. I've seen minimal work on some of those buildings with gutting taking place. I think part of his strategy is to find a tenant and build it out to their specifications. This isn't a Banta project, but a new art gallery is directly across the street from McNellies, which is a nice addition to the MidTown area. We need more retail in that area besides just restaurants. This will give people something to do before or after eating.

Pete
08-07-2008, 08:22 AM
I've heard him explain at a luncheon once that it's almost impossible to renovate an existing building and convert to housing without having to hang a huge price tag on the units. He states that it is alot less expensive to build new housing than converting existing buildings. I get the feeling that he is trying to develop a neighborhood that will attractive residents and that he will probably build new housing on most of the land that he has in the area (which is a lot)

That makes sense and I hope you're right. There are still gaping holes in that area of town.

It's a bit of chicken-and-egg thing though and we need more nice places to live in Midtown if we want that area to develop.

EvokeCoffee
08-07-2008, 08:26 AM
Last I heard, there was a "deli" going in between 1492 and Meg Guess on Walker. Not sure if that is still the case.

metro
08-07-2008, 08:27 AM
Yep.

circuitboard
08-07-2008, 08:40 AM
What is wrong with stucco? I am so tired of seeing brick. Miami, Dallas, San Fran, have alot of good looking stucco buildings. I like stucco. It's something different for oklahoma.

Platemaker
08-07-2008, 10:30 AM
First of all..


What is wrong with stucco? I am so tired of seeing brick. Miami, Dallas, San Fran, have alot of good looking stucco buildings. I like stucco. It's something different for oklahoma.


:dizzy: Are you kidding me with this!?!??!

Next...

I noticed last week that the Army Surplus Store in the cool building at 10th and Classen had gone out out business and now has Banta signs in the windows. I also heard a rumor that the same thing was going to happen to the health food store across the street.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/Platemaker_photos/Armysurplusstore.jpg

mecarr
08-07-2008, 11:01 AM
First of all..




:dizzy: Are you kidding me with this!?!??!

Next...

I noticed last week that the Army Surplus Store in the cool building at 10th and Classen had gone out out business and now has Banta signs in the windows. I also heard a rumor that the same thing was going to happen to the health food store across the street.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/Platemaker_photos/Armysurplusstore.jpg

I was at the healthfood store a couple days ago and didn't see any signs about going out of business...But the few times I have been in there I have been the only one.

wsucougz
08-07-2008, 11:11 AM
That's good news, but I wouldn't expect much out of them right away, unless they can line up some good tenants.

In the early going, it seems like he went off on a shotgun approach where they started renovating many of the properties with no particular rhyme or reason. Later on they appear to have dropped many of these renovations(for now) and really concentrated on the core properties where they could start generating money, i.e. Plaza Court and the Walker Shops, which was probably a smart move.

It sounds like Hadden Hall is their next project, and with momentum building in Midtown, I think that area, including A-alley, will be their main focus for some time to come. In my mind, McNellies is sort of where the rubber met the road. It has really proven that Midtown can live up to all of its potential and then some.

Now that they have money rolling in and their downtown investments are becoming more self-sustainable, I wouldn't be surprised to see a snowball affect occur as they get more completed projects online and thus have more cash rolling in. Maybe then we'll see Banta open up the floodgates a bit and start working simultaneously on more than just a small handful of their projects.

Anyone in the know care to comment on their strategy?

Pete
08-07-2008, 11:30 AM
Midtown needs places to live before it can go much further.

There are almost no options in that area, apart from a bunch of small and mostly rundown apartments.

There is still tons of land that is either un- or under-developed... When you move from the CBD up towards 13th, that entire area still feels very dead.

It needs some reasonably-priced condos and apartments to bring in the crowd that will support the restaurants and retail.

And with St. Anthony right there and the capitol and HSC are only a mile or two away -- as well as all of downtown -- seems like there would be plenty of demand. It's where I'd want to live if I moved back to OKC.

Midtowner
08-07-2008, 11:35 AM
If you sold your California property, you could afford a hell of a lot more than something which is 'reasonably priced.'

Pete
08-07-2008, 11:45 AM
Yes, but the area needs to attract a lot of people that can afford to live there.

The entire highlighted area is vastly underdeveloped and I'd love to see tons of new housing:

http://www.pc78.com/images/okctalk/midtown2.jpg

mecarr
08-07-2008, 01:14 PM
I would love to see the Olser building, right across from 1492, renovated. The building, even with a couple of the windows broken open, is very nice looking and it would be located in the heart of midtown. I haven't seen anything done on this project since I moved here over a year ago..

metro
08-07-2008, 02:51 PM
mecarr, they've been doing demo on the Osler on the interior.

As far as the Army Surplus on 10th and Classen, yes Banta bought it a little while back. It closed last month they had an auction on everything remaining. I went in the Health Food Store the first time about a week ago, they have a nice selection and a decent selection of organic/natural foods and TONS of supplements, etc. I really wish this place would stay in MidTown/Downtown but they need to put some serious money into remodeling/upgrading the place. Banta has the cashflow to fix it up. Maybe he could lease it back to them. Downtown needs a health food store like this. I did notice on Hudson a building that has been cleaned up a little and is for lease. I imagine retail/restaurant will move in there before too long with the Sieber opening up down the street.

jbrown84
08-07-2008, 06:28 PM
This isn't a Banta project, but a new art gallery is directly across the street from McNellies, which is a nice addition to the MidTown area.

What's cool is they actually have decent hours. I think they are open until 10 or 12 on the weekends.

andy157
08-09-2008, 06:01 AM
According to Steve he's bowing out.

DrFritz
08-09-2008, 07:28 AM
Oklahoma City real-estate developer exits Midtown partnership

James E. McNellie's Public House opened last month in the Midtown area. Photo/Shannon Cornman OKCBusiness


8/8/2008

Greg C. Banta, chairman and CEO of The Banta Companies, announced today that he has sold his interest in the properties being marketed as the “Midtown Renaissance” to his partners in the projects.

“Bob Howard and Mickey Clagg have been my partners since almost the beginning,” Banta said in a statement. “In 2005, I started acquiring properties in the area and partnered with them in early 2006. They both recognized the opportunities that Midtown possessed. They were, and still are, instrumental in its overall vision and will see the redevelopment through to its completion. Midtown is a unique area of Oklahoma City, and I think that most people relate to our desire of seeing this area continue its rebirth.”


He said the area has become a gem with the recent additions to the area, especially eateries Irma’s, Prairie Thunder Baking Company, McNellie’s, and 1492.

“When you are dealing with properties that have been vacant for 20 to 50 years, you have to take your time to maintain the architectural integrity while enhancing it to accommodate today’s modern tenants,” Banta said.

The next big push, Banta explained, for Midtown Renaissance will be the properties located around NW 10 and Robinson. Banta also stated that he felt the time was right for him to exit from the partnership and that he has some new projects on which he wants to concentrate.


“Oklahoma City is fortunate that is has such unique areas surrounding its central business district and we want to have a role in all of its areas, not just Midtown,” Banta said. “We have several unique districts in the downtown area with Uptown, Midtown, Automobile Alley, Deep Deuce, Bricktown, the CBD, the Arts District, the Film District and soon Core-to-Shore. I don’t think that we will have any problems finding several new projects to work on.”

solitude
08-09-2008, 09:20 AM
Wow. I am stunned. This has got to be a blow to Midtown. He has been THE driving force. It begs the question as to what he's going to do next!

solitude
08-09-2008, 09:29 AM
The Oklahoman story this morning.


By Steve Lackmeyer
Business Writer

Leading MidTown developer Greg Banta announced Friday he has sold his interests in the emerging entertainment district to partners Bob Howard and Mickey Clagg.

"Bob Howard and Mickey Clagg have been my partners since the beginning,” Banta said. "They both recognized the opportunities MidTown possessed. They were, and still are, instrumental in its overall vision and will see the redevelopment through to its completion.”

Banta said the time was right to leave the partnership and that he has new undisclosed projects he wants to pursue. He added his firm, The Banta Companies, still will remain involved in marketing MidTown and will expand into other areas of downtown.


Partners committed
Clagg said he and Howard are not yet ready to discuss their long-term plans, but confirmed they remain committed to the MidTown Renaissance development.
"We will continue with the vision that Greg started,” Clagg said. "We're going to complete the projects on a mixed-use basis and we want to define each property as to whether it should be residential, commercial or offices.”

Banta credited Howard and Clagg with affording him the opportunity to treat the more than 30 aging properties as one master development and gave him time to ensure the renovations were completed properly.

"They grasped the vision from the beginning,” Banta said. "When you are dealing with properties that have been vacant for 20 to 50 years, you have to take your time to maintain architectural integrity while enhancing it to accommodate today's modern tenants.”

Longtime MidTown observers say Banta's role as lead developer will be missed.

"It's a critical time for MidTown,” said Brett Hamm, president of Downtown Oklahoma City Inc. "It's going to take a strong commitment by the investors to continue the momentum Banta started. It will take a strong developer to take the projects through to completion.”


Major contribution
Marva Ellard, who is developing MidTown's Sieber Hotel, called Banta's contribution to the district "invaluable.”
"I anticipate Mr. Howard and Mr. Clagg will continue the plan they all developed for the area,” Ellard said. "Greg had a lot of enthusiasm and vision for the area, and that will be missed.”

Banta said he too anticipates the development will continue, with the next big push along NW 10 and Robinson where MidTown Renaissance properties include Hadden Hall, the old Hotel Kline and a former Packard dealership. All three buildings are in the middle of renovations.

"There will be noticeable changes in this area with new tenants being announced in the very near future,” Banta said. "People see what is happening in MidTown and they want to be part of it.”

betts
08-09-2008, 11:31 AM
I'd heard Bob Howard was the one getting out, but clearly that's not the case. I wonder what happened. Was there a rift or just differing ideas of how things should proceed?

Steve
08-09-2008, 02:37 PM
Read my blog at OKC Central — All about downtown OKC (http://www.okccentral.com) for more on this matter. It wouldn't surprise me, however, if this turns out to be better than before. Imagine, if you will, Howard and Clagg hiring a team of experts specializing in all this mixed use development and speeding up development, and Banta, meanwhile, attaching himself to another corner of MidTown or downtown and doing there what he has to date.

soonerguru
08-09-2008, 03:46 PM
Steve,

I visited the blog but couldn't really find any new info from what was in the paper. Oddly, the blog entry directed me back to the paper. You seem very positive about all of this but it doesn't seem to be completely positive news.

Steve
08-09-2008, 04:08 PM
The paper has a run-down of some of the projects that one could consider hits, misses or "on the cusp"

designconstruction
08-09-2008, 06:11 PM
As a property owner and a small investor in Midtown, I certainly see the potential positive this shift could bring. Any scenario that allows more hands to join the process could certainly accelerate the re-development of the volume of properties that need to be addressed. To complete the existing volume of projects available in midtown is a project potentially larger than any current downtown developer can complete on their own in a 3-5 year horizon.

While housing is certainly needed and should come easier with the success of Plaza Court, there is a large gap between construction costs and market rent rates anywhere in downtown OKC. Most renters in OKC still see $1/ft as expensive and that may be warranted based on income; however, as a developer, residential rentals is a hard nut to crack right now in the case of new construction or almost worst, historic renovation.

It would be nice to see the momentum Greg Banta started continued by additional developers joining the push. As someone who is not from OKC but now lives here and is involved downtown, I believe most would agree that while small, the "vibe" in midtown is better than any other potential area to live downtown. Midtown is at the infancy stage of eventually becoming the 'locals neighborhood.' Would you rather hang out in the west village or times square. I know those comparisons sound possibly laughable, but as someone who came here from nyc its the best I can come up with.

On a more positive note, this link is to a rendering of a proposed neon graphic to be installed on the old radio tower west of Plaza Court.

MIDTOWN - Oklahoma City - Oklahoma City - Oklahoma (OK) - City-Data Forum (http://www.city-data.com/forum/oklahoma-city/395889-midtown-oklahoma-city.html)

kevinpate
08-09-2008, 06:41 PM
I've never met Banta, but what I've read seems impressive. Don't know Howard. met Clagg several times a few years back, also seemed nice and a lot on the ball. his Norman projects seem ok as well.

Here's to good things for an area that, not so long ago, was still something of a white knuckle pass through area.

Pete
08-09-2008, 06:59 PM
I believe most would agree that while small, the "vibe" in midtown is better than any other potential area to live downtown. Midtown is at the infancy stage of eventually becoming the 'locals neighborhood.'

Absolutely right and something I've been saying for a while.

Your comment about downtown rental rates not being able to cover construction costs -- on even new structures -- is interesting and discouraging.

Unfortunately, this is all part of a much larger problem that still hasn't been addressed: As long as OKC allows completely unbridled development on cow pastures out beyond Memorial and continues to provide all the infrastructure to faciliate that, there isn't much advantage of living closer in and certainly not worth paying a serious rental premium when you can simply drive another 10-15 minutes and get a new place on the cheap.

And it's twisted because the tax payers have to cover the infrastructure and related services for far-flung development but the city itself suffers as a direct consequence.

I still haven't even heard this issue broached by any city leader. The only hope is that gas goes to $10 a gallon and takes care of the problem for us.

trison
08-11-2008, 10:42 AM
I was driving thru Midtown this weekend and noticed that Banta has several signs out on properties that were not part of the Midtown Renaissance. Some properties have Midtown Renaissance banners but there are a lot of Banta Realty banners in the area. It would appear to me that Banta is not getting out of Midtown but he cashed out of his investment in Midtown Renaissance.

Steve
08-11-2008, 10:56 AM
DesignConstruction, is your analysis based on a project that includes the use of tax credits and tax increment financing?
-Steve

trison
08-11-2008, 11:08 AM
A lot of buildings in the area are not eligible for tax credits or an owner doesn't want to be hamstrung with the federal requirements. When you figure most of the empty buildings in the area are selling for $50-$60 per foot and it probably takes another $110 per foot to finish them you're looking at an investment of around $160-$170 per foot. If your getting $1 per foot per month and you average 85% occupancy after expenses you looking at only about a 5% return which is not very much when you consider all of the risk that your taking. I would rather own a rent house in Mesta Park because I know I couldn't get afford doing anything Downtown. I'm guessing that is why most of the units that are being built are for sale and why they are asking so much. Somehow we have to get cheaper housing in downtown if the average person is ever going to be able to afford to move downtown.

BoulderSooner
08-13-2008, 02:46 PM
from what i am told banta basically had his money supply cut off ..and this is the result.. him "buying out" of the partnership

solitude
08-13-2008, 03:03 PM
from what i am told banta basically had his money supply cut off ..and this is the result.. him "buying out" of the partnership

Credit is tightening everywhere. Period.

Popsy
08-13-2008, 03:11 PM
There are quite a few members on this site that constantly complain about the unbridled development in cow pastures and how the city has to pay for the infrastructure. I think I have a solution in that the dissatified members of this site need to band together and petition the city to de-annex all of the land north of 122nd street and in that way the downtowners would no longer have to pay for infrastucture in those cow pastures. I would bet that Edmond would be glad to participate in developing those cow pastures and I could get more bang for my tax bucks than I do from OKC.

wsucougz
08-13-2008, 04:22 PM
There are quite a few members on this site that constantly complain about the unbridled development in cow pastures and how the city has to pay for the infrastructure. I think I have a solution in that the dissatified members of this site need to band together and petition the city to de-annex all of the land north of 122nd street and in that way the downtowners would no longer have to pay for infrastucture in those cow pastures. I would bet that Edmond would be glad to participate in developing those cow pastures and I could get more bang for my tax bucks than I do from OKC.

Seemed like a good time to just randomly throw that out there?

solitude
08-13-2008, 04:28 PM
Seemed like a good time to just randomly throw that out there?

I was thinking the same thing.

You know, I'm pissed that the Ford center seats are crammed so close together. Banta, do you hear me???? :)

Popsy
08-13-2008, 04:42 PM
Nope. Was responding to a statement of Pete's a few posts above. Did you just randomly ask the question or do you have a point?

progressiveboy
08-13-2008, 04:57 PM
I wish Banta much success and luck in his future endeavors. I really think the guy has started the momentum for Midtown and is a true "visionary" in what he is trying to achieve. My hope is also that the other 2 investors Howard and Clegg continue with the development and success or can find a suitable developer to finish and make it all happen and come together. This area of OKC can became an "urban" infill project much like Midtown in Tulsa or a "smaller" version of West Village in Uptown Dallas.

solitude
08-13-2008, 05:34 PM
I wish Banta much success and luck in his future endeavors. I really think the guy has started the momentum for Midtown and is a true "visionary" in what he is trying to achieve. My hope is also that the other 2 investors Howard and Clegg continue with the development and success or can find a suitable developer to finish and make it all happen and come together. This area of OKC can became an "urban" infill project much like Midtown in Tulsa or a "smaller" version of West Village in Uptown Dallas.

You said it well. I agree with you that Banta is a visionary. He's not a talker - he gets things done. I hope to see him working in other parts of our city core and bringing the same enthusiasm he brought to Midtown. I expect great things from him in whatever capacity.

mecarr
08-13-2008, 08:58 PM
I know Banta has a reputaiton of "getting things done", but there have been a number of projects of his that have completely stalled, like the Marion, the Olser, etc. I know these projects are being renovated, but the progress is being stalled. Nonetheless, Banta did get the ball rolling in a good way for this area, and for that we should be grateful.

Pete
08-14-2008, 08:35 AM
If nothing else, Banta made Plaza Court happen which is now the hub of Midtown.

I still think that area will be the place to be in the coming years. So much potential and I'm sure other developers see that as well.

soonerguru
08-14-2008, 07:57 PM
Popsy,

Do you think the city's development strategy has been a good one? Do you take issue with Pete's point about OKC paying for infrastructure in exurbs?

oneforone
08-15-2008, 01:10 AM
I hear is working for the Sunshine Cab Company.


http://store.infinitecoolness.com/coolposters/personalities/taxi/taxitvposter006.jpg

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="<A href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Kzhwx8aOO0A&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param">http://www.youtube.com/v/Kzhwx8aOO0A&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Kzhwx8aOO0A&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Taxi (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3114363145658710848&ei=bSulSMXGC4bs4gL_xqCbDQ&q=taxi&vt=lf&hl=en)

andy157
08-15-2008, 02:44 AM
Absolutely right and something I've been saying for a while.

Your comment about downtown rental rates not being able to cover construction costs -- on even new structures -- is interesting and discouraging.

Unfortunately, this is all part of a much larger problem that still hasn't been addressed: As long as OKC allows completely unbridled development on cow pastures out beyond Memorial and continues to provide all the infrastructure to faciliate that, there isn't much advantage of living closer in and certainly not worth paying a serious rental premium when you can simply drive another 10-15 minutes and get a new place on the cheap.

And it's twisted because the tax payers have to cover the infrastructure and related services for far-flung development but the city itself suffers as a direct consequence.

I still haven't even heard this issue broached by any city leader. The only hope is that gas goes to $10 a gallon and takes care of the problem for us.Pete. I believe this issue has at least been broached by City leaders. It was discussed at a Council workshop held Aug. 21 of 2007.

In fact the issue was adopted as one of the City's list of seven priorities under the heading titled "Paying for Growth". Where it went from there I have no idea. You might have missed it, or may have simply forgotten about it but Bryan Dean did a story on the Council workshop. In fact Betts posted Bryans story in this very forum back on Aug. 22nd of 2007 The threads title is "City Officials Adopt Seven Priorities". Check it out, I think you are, and they were, discussing the same issue.

Popsy
08-15-2008, 01:47 PM
Popsy,

Do you think the city's development strategy has been a good one? Do you take issue with Pete's point about OKC paying for infrastructure in exurbs?

The strategy I disagree with goes back to what I believe was the 1950's when the OKC city council gobbled up every cow pasture they could, surrounding many of the small communities in the area. It is my belief that if a city does this they have an obligation to provide the infrastucture that is within their city limits regardless of the perceived need by some that that the need for infill should occur first. If the residents of Oklahoma City do not want to pay for that infrastructure then they should demand that the City de-annex those areas.

It is my understanding that developers in those cow pastures are responsible for the cost of all the infrastructure except for the roads outside the development. The devlopers are also responsible for paying the cost of connecting to OKC's sewer and water lines regardless of how far away they might be. You can drive north of Memorial in areas that have very expensive houses with substantial property taxes and the roads are terrible. After years of those homes being there OKC is just now rebuilding some roads along 150th street.