Can we become an Energy Mecca like Houston, or is there only room for one? I would love to see us compete for businesses like they do.

They have a port. We do not.

They have a tax scheme which goes really easy on big companies. We do not.

There's not even a remote comparison. We have three major players here. Houston basically has everything else.

Agreed with the above poster. I had a summer internship gig in Houston this past year and the conglomerate of energy companies down there is in such a mass that I don't think OKC can really "compete" per say.

OKC is doing just fine in nurturing independent oil companies like Devon, Chesapeake, Sandridge, Dominion, etc. but that doesn't mean its a good environment for Exxon, Conoco, and the like.

Given whats happening to major oil companies (heavier taxation, horrible PR, declining reserves), thats probably not a bad thing.

Houston is also afflicted with some of the worst air quality and traffic congestion in the US. It's not a place I would want to see OKC emulate.

Please. Houston is the most international city in the US. No other city boasts the main residence of foreign royalty. Houston's growth far out-paces just about every metropolitan area and here's the thing: Houston is no Las Vegas or South Florida--it's a real city with a real urban vibe. Houston is so large and so diverse that the only thing that really ties the entire city together is the presence of construction cranes everywhere, including the old wards, historic Galveston Island, the mid-60's period suburbs, and the outer ring suburbs.

Houston is the most international city in the US in the sense that there are more languages spoken in the city than in any other city in the US. There are about 300 languages spoken in Houston. The metro itself is populated by over 5 million people. That's almost two Oklahomas, and almost 5 OKCs. Houston's secondary airport (Hobby Airport) is busier than Will Rogers, not to mention the Intercontinental behemoth. The Port of Houston is one of the busiest in the World. The Galleria is regarded as one of the finest epicenters of upscale shopping in America.

The image of construction cranes sums up Houston's prosperity, as well as some of the everyday hassles that Houstonians quickly learn to cope with, but it does not sum up the urban vibe of the city. There are a lot of old historic structures in the Inner Loop. There are a lot of cool warehouse districts. One thing that's uniquely Houston is the dining. There are more restaurants per capita in Houston than anywhere else, and that means a lot of restaurants in a city as huge and as dense as Houston. Houston is unique for its market-driven urban boom, which is purely driven by market forces, and not by municipal or state incentives or projects. Few cities have as much urban construction as Houston. OKC certainly doesn't, and OKC is still in the top tier for urban construction.

Please. Houston is the most international city in the US.

i stoped reading at this point ..

please .. new york city ...DC san fran LA ... not houston

Houston is a fine city but I would rather see OKC diversify beyond energy so that when the next oil bust inevitably comes, we aren't up a creek. Nothing wrong with nourishing the companies that are here, and I would never turn away a company that wanted to move to OKC, but in my opinion, we should focus on building a more well-rounded economy. The biotech industry is promising, aviation probably has room to grow, work on financial services and creative services. People who are not lawyers, doctors or oil industry execs need more high-paying job opportunities in OKC.

Nothing urban comes to mind when I think of Houston. Not to say there arent urban areas because obviously there are, it just takes a long time to get there coming from the outside.

Actually, the state of Oklahoma used to be the "Houston" back in the day. Tulsa was the "Oil Capital of the World." They just all moved to Houston.

I don't always agree with Spartan, but I agree with every word he said about Houston. It's the 3rd largest city in America and is so far removed from cities of our tier it may as well be on Mars. I have a feeling those who say that Houston doesn't mean anything to them haven't been there.

I have only heard a bunch of negatives about Houston as far as the quality of life issue. A friend's wife (he worked for boots and coots) hated the place. The air quality and traffic was horrible. They ended moving out to New Mexico.

I have only seen the inside of their air port myself.

I have only heard a bunch of negatives about Houston as far as the quality of life issue. A friend's wife (he worked for boots and coots) hated the place. The air quality and traffic was horrible. They ended moving out to New Mexico.

I have only seen the inside of their air port myself.

The traffic. Yes, it's awful. You always hear LA and Houston have the worst traffic and that's the truth.

What a coincidence. I went from OKCTalk to another site with this new link:
Mag: Houston 'Next Great World City'... (http://american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/lone-star-rising)

Interesting snippet from the article:

"In 1960, Houston was the home of hardly any major energy companies, ranking behind New York, Los Angeles, and even Tulsa; today, 16 large companies make their headquarters there, more than all those cities combined."

It's the 3rd largest city in America...

Actually Chicago is the third largest city in the US.

Actually Chicago is the third largest city in the US.

Edit: You know what? I was thinking about something else. You're right. Houston is right on their heels though and very well could pass them by 2010.

Houston is right on their heels though and very well could pass them by 2010.

Yes you are right about that, Solitude. However the MSA aren't that close though. Chicago 9.5 million to Houston at 5.6 million. This according to the US Census estimates. No question that Houston is growing.

I only know Houston from driving through to Galveston trying to get to and from our Cruise port.

Thank God, I always book a hotel a few days before our ship leaves.

Based on those experiences, I Hated it! The traffic was horrendous. This coming from dealing with a lifetime of California drivers in rush hour traffic!

I have friends in Houston who constantly complain about the traffic, air quality and humidity.

I don't know, some people complain about everything no matter where they live.

Ask OKCPulse what he thinks? He actually lives there temporarily.

houston .....is way bigger than okc the economic growth is insane they have 2 very noticable large areas of skyline maybe we should compare to big 'D' never the 'H' after all I think we got more of a dallas feel than houston feel......ps both cities traffic sucks

What a coincidence. I went from OKCTalk to another site with this new link:
Mag: Houston 'Next Great World City'... (http://american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/lone-star-rising)

Interesting snippet from the article:

"In 1960, Houston was the home of hardly any major energy companies, ranking behind New York, Los Angeles, and even Tulsa; today, 16 large companies make their headquarters there, more than all those cities combined."

Another interesting snipped,


Many seem to share the impression expressed by journalist John Gunther in Inside U.S.A. in 1947 when he described Houston as a place “where few people think about anything but money.”

And


Lauding Houston to urban planners is not much different than extolling red meat at a convention of vegans.


I lived in Houston for a while. It was enjoyable. If you believe that San Francisco is the most international city then you are probably homosexual, if you believe it's LA then you watch too much HollywoodInsider, if you believe it's NYC you didn't know their net internal migration rate for this decade so far has been -7.9% and this decade aint even over yet, if you believe it's DC then you could have a good case up against Houston but you would have to argue the importance of US government contracts over foreign business competition. If you are somebody that can handle living in an urban environment and appreciate the trade-offs you won't mind Houston a bit. The traffic? Read a book. The smog? Buy a portable Ionic Breeze. The people? See a psychiatrist... just kidding. The pollution isn't that bad, and the humidity is good for your skin. Unlike this dry Okie air. The traffic is why you should live in the Inner Loop and not out in Katy for chrissakes.

OKC? I like OKC. But I liked Houston even more. It was just a really cool place. The key to Houston though is WHERE you put yourself. If you live outside of the loop, well you are literally out of the loop. If you surround yourself with people that are big enough to have a fun time in a city as diverse and big as Houston, you will have a much better time than you would if you surround yourself with small people with small minds.

And it's funny because I know some people that moved from Houston to Los Alamos, as well. I wonder if we know the same folks, OU Adonis. This guy worked for the National Lab, though and not "boots and coots."

Ask OKCPulse what he thinks? He actually lives there temporarily.

Let me be succinct... I am counting the days. Since moving to the Houston area, I have never spent so much time in the car in my life. I have a greater appreciation for Oklahoma City's planning. Compared to Houston, OKC planned smart.

It is all in the eye of the beholder. Spartan loves Houston, that's okay. He sees Houston's vibe, I see Houston's out-of-control urban sprawl beyond even its own city boundaries. Just drive along FM 1960 for five miles, the hand count on vacated (and I mean 100 percent vacated) strip malls that were built in the 1980s and 1990s goes beyond your ten fingers.

If you want to do anything really fun, you have to drive 40 miles and 90 minutes just to do so. Sure, I live in Conroe, north of Houston. But anything south of The Woodlands is expensive and congested.

Spartan's claim to construction cranes all over Houston is questionable. There are two cranes in downtown Houston where I work. One construction crane west of Houston in I-10 and a few in scattered suburbs. Compare that to Dallas, where last year when driving back to OKC I saw at least 12 cranes high in the sky.

I will say I enjoy the buildings in Houston. Reliant Stadium is kick-ass. Toyota Center is okay. But the excitement for me is in Oklahoma City where something magical is happening. And next month, I am coming to OKC for a vacation. It's been over a year and I need a break from Texas.

Don't forget Miami, Miami is a melting pot of culture. Tons of immigrants from South America, Caribbean, Latin America, and Europe.

Miami is a third world nation, and okcpulse, you left out everything in Montrose, the Houston Heights, Upper Kirby, the Galleria, and River Oaks, and there are actually 3 towers proposed or u/c right now in downtown alone-the mixed-use Houston Pavilions, CityCenter, and one on Main that is demo'ing a bunch of historic buildings I'd rather keep. The one on I-10 you're probably referring to is actually one of the ones at the Loop 610 interchange..and not one of the actual towers being constructed in the Energy Corridor that runs along I-10 west from the Loop 610 out to Katy. And this is beyond me why somebody excited by urban OKC would not be excited by urban Houston, hence you work in downtown Houston and LIVE in Conroe. That must be at least an hour and a half commute each way. That's about as bad as my commute from north-of-I-40 down to Norman. If you don't like traffic and you don't like Houston, why do such a commute. You probably could have found something affordable closer in. Even Katy or Kingwood are closer into Houston. There are actually affordable urban abodes in Houston because there they are NOT market anomalies like they are here. If you had to have the suburban tract home reminiscent of OKC you probably could have found something affordable and close-in (with a much less congested commute) in one of the better areas of Pasadena (the south half as opposed to its northern half.

The only positive thing about Conroe that I can say is nice lake area, nice greenery, and it has a Pappadeaux so I'm sure it's 'livable'.

Ask OKCPulse what he thinks? He actually lives there temporarily.

Let me be succinct... I am counting the days. Since moving to the Houston area, I have never spent so much time in the car in my life. I have a greater appreciation for Oklahoma City's planning. Compared to Houston, OKC planned smart.

It is all in the eye of the beholder. Spartan loves Houston, that's okay. He sees Houston's vibe, I see Houston's out-of-control urban sprawl beyond even its own city boundaries. Just drive along FM 1960 for five miles, the hand count on vacated (and I mean 100 percent vacated) strip malls that were built in the 1980s and 1990s goes beyond your ten fingers.

If you want to do anything really fun, you have to drive 40 miles and 90 minutes just to do so. Sure, I live in Conroe, north of Houston. But anything south of The Woodlands is expensive and congested.

Spartan's claim to construction cranes all over Houston is questionable. There are two cranes in downtown Houston where I work. One construction crane west of Houston in I-10 and a few in scattered suburbs. Compare that to Dallas, where last year when driving back to OKC I saw at least 12 cranes high in the sky.

I will say I enjoy the buildings in Houston. Reliant Stadium is kick-ass. Toyota Center is okay. But the excitement for me is in Oklahoma City where something magical is happening. And next month, I am coming to OKC for a vacation. It's been over a year and I need a break from Texas.

With all do respect, there is a huge difference between living in Conroe and living inside the loop in Houston. Living in Conroe is like living in Guthrie.

Also, townhomes and condos are significantly cheaper inside the loop in Houston than they are around Bricktown.

That being said, I'd rather live in OKC too.

Miami is a third world nation, and okcpulse, you left out everything in Montrose, the Houston Heights, Upper Kirby, the Galleria, and River Oaks, and there are actually 3 towers proposed or u/c right now in downtown alone-the mixed-use Houston Pavilions, CityCenter, and one on Main that is demo'ing a bunch of historic buildings I'd rather keep. The one on I-10 you're probably referring to is actually one of the ones at the Loop 610 interchange..and not one of the actual towers being constructed in the Energy Corridor that runs along I-10 west from the Loop 610 out to Katy. And this is beyond me why somebody excited by urban OKC would not be excited by urban Houston, hence you work in downtown Houston and LIVE in Conroe. That must be at least an hour and a half commute each way. That's about as bad as my commute from north-of-I-40 down to Norman. If you don't like traffic and you don't like Houston, why do such a commute. You probably could have found something affordable closer in. Even Katy or Kingwood are closer into Houston. There are actually affordable urban abodes in Houston because there they are NOT market anomalies like they are here. If you had to have the suburban tract home reminiscent of OKC you probably could have found something affordable and close-in (with a much less congested commute) in one of the better areas of Pasadena (the south half as opposed to its northern half.

The only positive thing about Conroe that I can say is nice lake area, nice greenery, and it has a Pappadeaux so I'm sure it's 'livable'.

Says who, your former moniker SoonerRiceGrad or Spartan? Yes Houston is an international city, no denying that, but to say it is the most international in the U.S. is merely your opinion. You can't prove it is a "fact". There are obviously many others on this board alone, let alone thousands of other websites that would claim cities such as San Fran, LA, Miami, NY or Chicago are more international. The truth is, they all are. If you love Houston so much, why don't you move there instead of OKC.

to say it is the most international in the U.S. is merely your opinion.

An opinion that loses a lot of credibility after the following sentiments:


If you believe that San Francisco is the most international city then you are probably homosexual, if you believe it's LA then you watch too much HollywoodInsider...

Seriously, what does any of that have to do with anything?

I wouldn't argue that SF is the most international city in the US, but I have no idea why such an opinion would be exclusive to people who like to date people of the same sex. If you for some reason think San Francisco is exclusively or even predominantly gay, then it seems you probably have less insight into the culture of these cities than you're trying to represent.

LA's is pretty international and it has little to do with its film industry. It's international community is certainly less visibly organized than you find in more urban cities, but you're not going to find many cultures that aren't well represented in Southern California.

As for Houston, I agree with your depiction of it being one of the most international cities in the country. It's extremely diverse, it just doesn't do as good of a job marketing or maybe even celebrating that aspect of its culture. It's a very Texas First culture. But still, you have to be a homosexual to recognize San Francisco as an international city on par with Houston?? That's bizarre.

And it's funny because I know some people that moved from Houston to Los Alamos, as well. I wonder if we know the same folks, OU Adonis. This guy worked for the National Lab, though and not "boots and coots."

I could of sworn it was Boots, but I could be mistaken. He moved from NM to OKC where he met his wife. They moved to Houston, then he moved back to NM. He was originally from NM.

I believe he was a petrolium engineer.

I've spent some time in Houston, and I don't care for it.

I will give you that it's somewhat international, but I don't think it's the most international. It's got all the appeal of L.A. (not my favorite at all) without the interesting history.

I would never live there.

Comparing Houston to NYC is laughable.

Houston is a fine city but I would rather see OKC diversify beyond energy so that when the next oil bust inevitably comes, we aren't up a creek. Nothing wrong with nourishing the companies that are here, and I would never turn away a company that wanted to move to OKC, but in my opinion, we should focus on building a more well-rounded economy. The biotech industry is promising, aviation probably has room to grow, work on financial services and creative services. People who are not lawyers, doctors or oil industry execs need more high-paying job opportunities in OKC.

You wanna diversify OKC's economy and add a degree of recession-proofness to it? Build up the entertainment/music field. It's already trying to grow here. The west side of Downtown is going to focus on film and music and we need to be proactive and encourage the major studios to set up shop here via satellite offices. We absolutely have to get more of the entertainment field in OKC. That field never feels recession (people love movies even in lean times) and they spend a TON of money. The movie Elizabethtown (a Cameron Crowe flop) brought $4-5 million into the state's economy for a FIVE DAY shoot. Think about that.

I make it a point to be as friendly to the entertainment industry as possible. If Austin can become a Hollywood outpost, so can OKC.

Where was Elizabethtown filmed?

In various parts of OKC (Memorial and assorted neighborhoods), along Route 66 east of OKC and out in El Reno. Those are the Oklahoma locations I can remember, anyway. They did a ton of location shooting.

The galleria in Houston one of the best shopping center in America? That's just crazy talk. Much better than what we have but not even top 25 in America.

The general gist of things is The World v. Houston, yeah we get it. Nobody likes Houston blah blah. Proof is in the pudding.

-Galleria not even in the Top 25 shopping centers.
-Comparing Houston to NYC is laughable (though I agree, Houston is actually not declining)
-Houston sits behind every other major US city.


Says who, your former moniker SoonerRiceGrad or Spartan? Yes Houston is an international city, no denying that, but to say it is the most international in the U.S. is merely your opinion. You can't prove it is a "fact". There are obviously many others on this board alone, let alone thousands of other websites that would claim cities such as San Fran, LA, Miami, NY or Chicago are more international. The truth is, they all are. If you love Houston so much, why don't you move there instead of OKC.

Why don't you just go back to sending threatening emails to everyone on OCURA? I already did prove it as a fact, you aren't paying attention.

1.There are more languages spoken in Houston than any other city.

2.No other city is the main home of foreign Royalty.

3.Cities Ranked and Rates which is a resource book by Bert Sperling, gave Chicago a diversity rating of 57.2%, Houston a rating of 68.5%, Los Angeles a rating of 68.8%, Miami a rating of 68.2%, New York a rating of 62%, and San Francisco a rating of 63.2%.


And, BDP, I never said you have to be one of the following to view a certain city WITH Houston. We all do. This is the class of cities that Houston is in. But with that in mind I said that you have to be one of the following to view these cities as the supreme city of the land. Face it folks, we live in a day and age where there are a small handful of US cities that are so advanced that New York does NOT have free reign over urban supremacy, and it is very much up for grabs.

Someone could probably come up with a stereotype for someone that views Houston as the cat's meow and I would probably agree with it. I don't think someone that wears Cowboy boots would be appropriate though (thought I'd bring that up before someone else did). First of all someone wearing Cowboy boots honestly could care less about urban supremacy, and the streets of Houston would be the last place (that being Dallas) that such a person would fit in.

Houston is actually not declining

Neither is NYC. Only if today was in the year 1975.

Google "New York City in decline". You will find nothing but positives.

Can there be only one Houston?

Let's hope so.

I've spent time in every major U.S. city and have had Houston at the very bottom of my list for some time. Yes, even below Cleveland.

It would be nice to have some of their business HQ's but otherwise there isn't much about that city that I'd want for OKC or anywhere else.

Cleveland is actually towards the top of my list.

I don't have a list.

I grew up in OKC, went to OSU, and have been living in Houston for the past nine years. I visit family and friends in OKC at least once a year. You could say I definitely know both cities pretty well.

Traffic? Yeah, it's horrible, and out of all the main freeways into the city, I live closest to the "least traveled" of them all (288). My commute used to be to the building in Spartan's avatar (Williams Tower, formerly Transco) in the Galleria area, in fact my floor was just above the bottom of the "S" in Spartan. That area has what was at one point the second busiest intersection in the COUNTRY (Post Oak and Westheimer). Now I'm closer to Reliant Stadium, so it's not as bad, only around 30 minutes. But even when I worked in Williams Tower, my commute was only 45. You could definitely see the "Toilet Bowl" effect from the smog from that high up, which was pretty disgusting, but you never really notice it when you're outside. Maybe I'm just used to it now.

Diversity? 90 languages spoken, two Chinatowns, Little India, Little Saigon and the 3rd largest vietnamese-american population in the country.

Economy? "The Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown MSA's Gross Area Product (GAP) in 2006 was $325.5 billion, slightly larger than Austria’s, Poland’s or Saudi Arabia’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). When comparing Houston's economy to a national economy, only 21 countries other than the United States have a gross domestic product exceeding Houston's regional gross area product. Mining, which in Houston is almost entirely exploration and production of oil and gas, accounts for 11% of Houston's GAP; this is down from 21% in 1985. The reduced role of oil and gas in Houston's GAP reflects the rapid growth of other sectors, such as engineering services, health services, and manufacturing." So, it's not just all energy based companies.

When OU beat Colorado in the Big XII championship, my father and some friends came down and stayed in a hotel in the Med Center area. We were out walking around after the game, and one of the guys was complaining that "there's no nightlife in downtown Houston". I had to point out to him that we weren't downtown. So, on that point, the Medical Center contains the world's largest concentration of research and healthcare institutions.

I love OKC, I love the growth that's happened since I left. I love that they're (probably) getting the Sonics. I love visiting my friends and family when I'm there. If circumstances were different, I'd still be there. But I live here in Houston because:

a) My wife's from here, and her family is much more tight knit than mine
b)The job market here is a zillion times better than in OKC
c)My wife is a school librarian, and I sure as heck wouldn't want her working in the OKC school district (even though I'm a product of that same system)
d)Astros, Texans, and Rockets games (Even though 2 of the 3 suck). Not to mention Dynamo (MLS) and Aeros (AHL).

Houston does have it's problems, like everyone's mentioned. In the long run, they don't affect me or my quality of life very much. I love it here, and I definitely don't regret moving to Houston for one second. Out of all the problems that Houston has, the only one that affects me is the traffic. Solution? Leave earlier.

The positives of this city far outweigh the negatives. My sentiment is similar to a bumper sticker that's floating around out there. "I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could". But still: :ou2

My sentiment is similar to a bumper sticker that's floating around out there. "I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could". But still: :ou2

That mentality is why I hated living in Texas in the 90s and why I would never live there today.

Exactly.

I've been in bed sick with fall allergies or the flu or something so I have a lot of catching up to do with these threads. Jaskerr, I actually appreciate your taking the time to post what you like about your adopted city. It is posts like yours that we can learn from. Why people leave is sometimes just as, or more important than, why people come.

That mentality is why I hated living in Texas in the 90s and why I would never live there today.

Because people WANT badly to live there?

no, the mentality that Texas is God's gift to this planet. :rolleyes:

Well, it is. :)

You know, Spartan, it is OKAY for people to prefer Oklahoma to Texas. Quit trying to downplay our pride.

I love how people try to pigeon-hole our state. It's almost comical.

Our state? I thought you were miserable in Texas. As for my state, I don't believe I ever once said a bad thing about Oklahoma.

You know you have a dangerous complex when you take someone praising the Republic of Texas as someone dissing the State of Oklahoma. Just get over it. I am every bit pro-OKC as any of you all IF NOT more if anybody actually knew what all I advocate for or what all I happen to know about HERE. But I still had a really awesome time living in Houston and if there's one place I put ahead of OKC, it's Houston, and because I'm so pro-OKC, that's actually saying a ton.

One thing Houston doesn't have to deal with is letdowns when projects don't happen or when the City isn't doing enough for light rail or downtown. In fact, Houston's downtown was just completely re-streetscaped a few years ago and the existing light rail system is now being vigorously expanded all throughout the city. Houston IS moving NOW on building a new downtown park. And Houston IS moving NOW on establishing a Core to Shore-like area east of the skyline. Houston already built the kind of convention center it takes for a big city to be competitive--OKC is still pretending its Myriad Convention Center is adequate.

Please. Houston is bold, while OKC has come a very long ways, OKC is timid in comparison and that bugs the hell out of me at times.

Our state? I thought you were miserable in Texas. As for my state, I don't believe I ever once said a bad thing about Oklahoma.

You know you have a dangerous complex when you take someone praising the Republic of Texas as someone dissing the State of Oklahoma. Just get over it. I am every bit pro-OKC as any of you all IF NOT more if anybody actually knew what all I advocate for or what all I happen to know about HERE. But I still had a really awesome time living in Houston and if there's one place I put ahead of OKC, it's Houston, and because I'm so pro-OKC, that's actually saying a ton.

One thing Houston doesn't have to deal with is letdowns when projects don't happen or when the City isn't doing enough for light rail or downtown. In fact, Houston's downtown was just completely re-streetscaped a few years ago and the existing light rail system is now being vigorously expanded all throughout the city. Houston IS moving NOW on building a new downtown park. And Houston IS moving NOW on establishing a Core to Shore-like area east of the skyline. Houston already built the kind of convention center it takes for a big city to be competitive--OKC is still pretending its Myriad Convention Center is adequate.

Please. Houston is bold, while OKC has come a very long ways, OKC is timid in comparison and that bugs the hell out of me at times.

Spartan, While I agree with much of what you wrote, you have to remember a city the size of Houston has the means to move NOW on projects that Oklahoma City must jump through hoops to get. I agree Houston is a dynamic, impressive city. One that gets a lot of, "I had no idea," comments from people who have never been there. But, on the other hand, the frustration you feel with OKC has a root cause that is based as much on available means (municipal and corporate) versus any desire for momentum and such, which I don't think OKlahoma City lacks these days.