View Full Version : First Americans Museum



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hoya
01-27-2020, 09:06 PM
So how does this area ever get better if it never receives investment?

It's not going to get better for quite some time. It's probably at least 30 years away. At least.

My dad grew up in that area, and my grandma lived over there until she passed away. I'm quite familiar with it. The problem is, there are too many other areas in OKC that are more appealing. Investment will go to those places long before it comes here.

The Crooked Oak area is really close to downtown, but you've got a full two miles of Reno industrial sites that would probably require massive amounts of environmental cleanup. Even if the city made a concerted push to renovate and improve the area south of the river, you've got a lot of other neighborhoods closer to downtown that would be affected first.

jdg78
01-27-2020, 10:01 PM
It's not going to get better for quite some time. It's probably at least 30 years away. At least.

My dad grew up in that area, and my grandma lived over there until she passed away. I'm quite familiar with it. The problem is, there are too many other areas in OKC that are more appealing. Investment will go to those places long before it comes here.

The Crooked Oak area is really close to downtown, but you've got a full two miles of Reno industrial sites that would probably require massive amounts of environmental cleanup. Even if the city made a concerted push to renovate and improve the area south of the river, you've got a lot of other neighborhoods closer to downtown that would be affected first.


This my friends in a nutshell is why inner city South side will never improve. Investment is needed and it isn’t happening privately. This is where the city should be encouraging investment. Not a complicated concept. This exact theory was used nearly 30 years ago to spur development DT. As long as city leadership and political power is heavily skewed north nothing will change. Wheeler is a start but it took the Humphreys to make it happen and they faced tons of challenges and skeptics. 99% of developers couldn’t have pulled it off. I’m hoping Wheeler is the catalyst for more investment, but I’m not hopeful.

bombermwc
01-28-2020, 07:02 AM
Except Wheeler really hasn't taken off. There is still very little there.

Canoe
01-28-2020, 07:43 AM
Except Wheeler really hasn't taken off. There is still very little there.

I think they are doing pretty well considering the park and amenities are not built yet.

Laramie
02-12-2020, 09:56 AM
Branding Oklahoma: Logos, logos and more logos . . .

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-a52b11c1f72e5f30f67104b3ad3dfcfb.jpg
Oklahoma's governor and lieutenant governor unveiled the state's new logo Wednesday. The colorful elements were inspired by nature and form a circle intended to highlight Oklahoma as a hub at the center of America.--Oklahoman, February 12,2020

http://sdesigninc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/EMBARK-Logo-H-RGB.png

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-448634f19b0f4f65ecfbb10f6bef105d.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELnLVmEWsAgHFeY?format=jpg&name=medium

Pete
04-07-2020, 07:13 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aaicm040420e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aaicm040420a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aaicm040420b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aaicm040420c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aaicm040420d.jpg

bombermwc
04-08-2020, 06:48 AM
It still boggles my mind that after all the money spent on this, it's still only this far along. It really feels like the money pit.....the money pit that no one seems to really want. Exterior is still so far off from being done and yet then we still have ALL of the interior left.

Well maybe we'll get it done some time in the next 20 years. The dang thing will be 50 years old before it opens its doors.

Rover
04-08-2020, 07:54 AM
It still boggles my mind that after all the money spent on this, it's still only this far along. It really feels like the money pit.....the money pit that no one seems to really want. Exterior is still so far off from being done and yet then we still have ALL of the interior left.

Well maybe we'll get it done some time in the next 20 years. The dang thing will be 50 years old before it opens its doors.
This was pretty much the story of the Western Heritage Museum aka Cowboy HOF, as I recall. It turned out fine.

Pete
04-08-2020, 07:55 AM
It still boggles my mind that after all the money spent on this, it's still only this far along. It really feels like the money pit.....the money pit that no one seems to really want. Exterior is still so far off from being done and yet then we still have ALL of the interior left.

Well maybe we'll get it done some time in the next 20 years. The dang thing will be 50 years old before it opens its doors.

It will be finished by the middle of 2021.

It's a very ambitious project and one that takes time.

There has actually been a ton of progress.

jdizzle
04-08-2020, 08:13 AM
Does anyone think this project will turn into a good investment? Seems a very niche market for visitors.

BoulderSooner
04-08-2020, 08:16 AM
Does anyone think this project will turn into a good investment? Seems a very niche market for visitors.

it will absolulty be a good investment it will draw tons of visitors a year

jedicurt
04-08-2020, 08:17 AM
Does anyone think this project will turn into a good investment? Seems a very niche market for visitors.

isn't that like saying any Museum is a niche market, because it's only going to attract people who like that type of thing??? can't that literally be said about anything.

why don't we actually wait until it opens, and see what kind of draw it gets. just because you don't like something, doesn't mean others feel the same way.

jdizzle
04-08-2020, 08:25 AM
isn't that like saying any Museum is a niche market, because it's only going to attract people who like that type of thing??? can't that literally be said about anything.

why don't we actually wait until it opens, and see what kind of draw it gets. just because you don't like something, doesn't mean others feel the same way.

Meh, this is an extreme. Not like a regular natural history museum, this is about one group of people. But you're right. We shall see.

jedicurt
04-08-2020, 08:35 AM
Meh, this is an extreme. Not like a regular natural history museum, this is about one group of people. But you're right. We shall see.

i don't think it is remotely extreme. we are talking about a city who currently has the National Cowboy Hall of Fame as one of it's biggest drawing attractions... that is only about one group of people.

AP
04-08-2020, 08:54 AM
Does anyone think this project will turn into a good investment? Seems a very niche market for visitors.

How is this any different than the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum? It is literally the same concept. And quite cool that both are in OKC.

Edit: didn't realize jedicurt just said the same thing above.

jdizzle
04-08-2020, 09:01 AM
Like I said, we shall see. all the money that has been poured into this project, I don't know how far away the breakeven point is.

GoGators
04-08-2020, 09:05 AM
Does anyone think this project will turn into a good investment? Seems a very niche market for visitors.

I Guess it depends on what you consider a good investment.

First Americans Museum- $97 million in taxpayer dollars, Estimated direct economic impact $190 million per year.

I-235-I-44 interchange- 105 million in taxpayer dollars. Estimated direct economic impact $0 per year.

Rover
04-08-2020, 12:04 PM
Meh, this is an extreme. Not like a regular natural history museum, this is about one group of people. But you're right. We shall see.

It's about several groups/tribes of people who just happened to inhabit the US first and was subject to many atrocities. It is an extremely important story for anyone who wants to understand who we are as a country and state. For those who don't like to be reminded of what the native Americans had to go through, yeah I guess this is a narrow focus and not worth their time.

Can't wait for this to open.

Rover
04-08-2020, 12:05 PM
Does anyone think this project will turn into a good investment? Seems a very niche market for visitors.

Is culture and history a good investment for our state.... ABSOLUTELY!

jdizzle
04-08-2020, 12:25 PM
Is culture and history a good investment for our state.... ABSOLUTELY!

True, but I just wonder how long it will take to fully finish this, and also get the surrounding land developed. A dollar 10 years ago when this started is worth far more than a dollar today. Time value of money is how I am looking at this.

Rover
04-08-2020, 01:07 PM
True, but I just wonder how long it will take to fully finish this, and also get the surrounding land developed. A dollar 10 years ago when this started is worth far more than a dollar today. Time value of money is how I am looking at this.

But nobody wanted to put up the money years ago, so time value is a mute point. Lot's of politics involved and bad decisions.

Richard at Remax
04-08-2020, 01:20 PM
If this thing has an economic impact of $190 million a year I'll fall over

Rover
04-08-2020, 08:18 PM
If this thing has an economic impact of $190 million a year I'll fall over
Want us to get you a chair?

Richard at Remax
04-09-2020, 09:31 AM
So the new convention center just booked 8 conventions totaling 37,000+ room nights. That itself only has an estimated direct economic impact of $20 million.

I feel pretty good I won't need a chair.

rte66man
04-09-2020, 10:02 AM
The key is DIRECT. To say it will have a $190 million DIRECT impact is silly. Counting things such as hotel room bookings, meals and the like is Indirect, not direct.

Pete
04-09-2020, 10:26 AM
Newish conceptual plans:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm040620a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm040620b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm040620c.jpg

Rover
04-09-2020, 10:29 AM
The key is DIRECT. To say it will have a $190 million DIRECT impact is silly. Counting things such as hotel room bookings, meals and the like is Indirect, not direct.

Correct. Everyone plays with numbers to take credit for growth... the streetcar, conventions center, fairgrounds, road development, subsidies to businesses, street-scaping, and on and on and on.. All take max credit for anything good that happens around them or touches them or is mentioned in the same breath as them.

TheTravellers
04-09-2020, 10:37 AM
What's the purpose of the Northern Promontory, out there on the other side of the river with no visible access?

AP
04-09-2020, 10:37 AM
Are they really planning to bring the river in like that?

jccouger
04-09-2020, 10:38 AM
Those new conceptual plans are amazing.

How will the north & south be tied? I can't imagine making that work without a pedestrian bridge across the river. Eastern/MLK seem too far.

Rover
04-09-2020, 10:39 AM
What's the purpose of the Northern Promontory, out there on the other side of the river with no visible access?

I thought I saw trails up to and on it.

jccouger
04-09-2020, 10:40 AM
Those new conceptual plans are amazing.

How will the north & south be tied? I can't imagine making that work without a pedestrian bridge across the river. Eastern/MLK seem too far.

I'll answer my own question & say boats will probably be used between both shores.

BoulderSooner
04-09-2020, 10:49 AM
i don't think they can make any of those changes to the river ... because they would effect the rowing course

Anonymous.
04-09-2020, 11:28 AM
Does that say RV Park on the far west?

This whole layout looks like a music festival layout. I remember someone a while back (when this project was dead-end) saying they should use the venue for hosting music festivals. I still think that is a really cool idea.

Rover
04-09-2020, 11:39 AM
Does that say RV Park on the far west?

This whole layout looks like a music festival layout. I remember someone a while back (when this project was dead-end) saying they should use the venue for hosting music festivals. I still think that is a really cool idea.

I like the dance area. Imagine having First American dancing every Sat night or once a month. I would be a definite go to event and draw from all over the state or area. I have hosted business groups from all over the world here in OKC and the thing they want to see the most is historic culture. Western Heritage Museum was a huge hit and believe it or not, Bullnanza followed by country dancing at a saloon was the biggest draw. We had people ask specifically if we were going to be going before they would make their plans to be here.

David
04-09-2020, 02:16 PM
Newish conceptual plans:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm040620a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm040620b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm040620c.jpg

Very interesting. ARe the Chickasaw planning all this with minimal further public money? If so, turning it over to them is looking like a very good deal.

TheTravellers
04-09-2020, 02:47 PM
I thought I saw trails up to and on it.

Maybe, I haven't seen any, but I've only done a cursory search. But what's it actually for, is it just a mound like the Eastern one, why is it on the other side of the river, why would people want to go over to it?

jdizzle
04-09-2020, 03:04 PM
Does that say RV Park on the far west?

This whole layout looks like a music festival layout. I remember someone a while back (when this project was dead-end) saying they should use the venue for hosting music festivals. I still think that is a really cool idea.

Man, if OKC could get a decent amphitheater (about 15-18,000 capacity), that would put OKC way in front of Tulsa, and probably for good, If it were located along the river, that would be so amazing!

Swake
04-09-2020, 04:15 PM
I like the dance area. Imagine having First American dancing every Sat night or once a month. I would be a definite go to event and draw from all over the state or area. I have hosted business groups from all over the world here in OKC and the thing they want to see the most is historic culture. Western Heritage Museum was a huge hit and believe it or not, Bullnanza followed by country dancing at a saloon was the biggest draw. We had people ask specifically if we were going to be going before they would make their plans to be here.

There are dances and pow-wows every weekend in Oklahoma. In the spring and summer, there are many every weekend. Except for this year of course.

Rover
04-09-2020, 06:59 PM
There are dances and pow-wows every weekend in Oklahoma. In the spring and summer, there are many every weekend. Except for this year of course.

In OKC? Where?

bombermwc
04-10-2020, 07:15 AM
Call me a pessimist on this project, but if they can't get the main structure opened, how are they going to get the funds to pay for the rest of this masterplan? Do they really think they're going to take that much in? If we had donors, we'd already have the place open.

5alive
04-10-2020, 07:57 AM
When the casinos reopen, a few weeks of revenue from the Win-Star (and their other properties) will finance this project. A special thank you to all the Texans who bring their cash to the Win-Star :wink:

TheTravellers
04-10-2020, 09:11 AM
In OKC? Where?

Not sure if in OKC proper, but check out the https://www.travelok.com/American_Indian_Culture, and click on the Festivals and Events, they have listings of them, wife copy-edits and proofs their listings and I remember her calling *tons* of organizations about them each year. This year it's probably going to be different, but that website should give you a general idea...

Pete
04-10-2020, 09:21 AM
Call me a pessimist on this project, but if they can't get the main structure opened, how are they going to get the funds to pay for the rest of this masterplan? Do they really think they're going to take that much in? If we had donors, we'd already have the place open.

It's fully funded and on schedule to open next year.

Rover
04-10-2020, 09:44 AM
Not sure if in OKC proper, but check out the https://www.travelok.com/American_Indian_Culture, and click on the Festivals and Events, they have listings of them, wife copy-edits and proofs their listings and I remember her calling *tons* of organizations about them each year. This year it's probably going to be different, but that website should give you a general idea...

My thought is if there are regular and scheduled dances in the same place, and there are other things to see with it, people will plan to come. It can be promoted. People will still attend special events in other places in OK, but won't especially go 150 miles on spur of the moment. They might opt to decide on Sat afternoon to take the kids and go spend Sat night doing it 15 miles away.

mkjeeves
04-10-2020, 10:16 AM
Powwows.com is a resource. Not too many OKC Metro listings but some.

Pete
05-24-2020, 06:57 AM
Glass installed in the Hall of the People atrium.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm052320a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm052320c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aiccm052320b.jpg

5alive
05-24-2020, 01:13 PM
Now we're talking!

Laramie
05-27-2020, 03:25 PM
Closing on the property will enable AICCM Land Development LLC to begin commercial development of more than 100 acres around the museum. Plans are to open the museum in 2021.--William Crum, Oklahoman

100 acres... What do you think the Chickasaw Tribe will do with that land once the First Americans Museum is completed.

Pete
07-25-2020, 11:22 AM
COPTA received a $4 million grant to connect the FAM to the current river ferry system.

They will build a new dock and landing with the money, then use the existing river cruisers.

shawnw
07-25-2020, 12:01 PM
this is needed, but I hope they treat it like a real ferry where you can just by a ticket (and BT landing) and take it across, say maybe with a bike, vs it being an "experience" (they can have those, too, just want to make sure it's actually a ferry service as well).

HOT ROD
07-26-2020, 05:36 AM
scheduled ferry (taxi) vs. charter ferry :)

both would be great but definitely need the scheduled ferries to be part of OKC's transit system - I bet this is what shawnw is referring to.

CCOKC
07-26-2020, 09:53 PM
On a somewhat related note, the boat dock at Agnew is now finished. There is a pathway that zigzags its way from the trail to the dock. Most of the south trail got a new layer of asphalt as well.

Pete
07-27-2020, 04:27 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam072620a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam072620b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam072620c.jpg

Canoe
07-27-2020, 06:09 AM
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam072620a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam072620b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam072620c.jpg

Pete what is the approximate indoor square footage?

Laramie
10-19-2020, 04:41 PM
Pete what is the approximate indoor square footage?

The $175 million, 175,000-square-foot museum is designed to Smithsonian Institution standards. Features will include a Smithsonian and Tribal Nations galleries; artifacts from the Smithsonian collections will be displayed.--Oklahoman, December 12, 2019

Pete
10-22-2020, 10:46 AM
From the FB page of Teitsort, the glass manufacturer:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam102220a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/fam102220b.jpg

Laramie
10-22-2020, 12:46 PM
Thank you Pete, for these impressive pics. Really want to see how impressive this museum will look at night. Also what the Chickasaws will do with those 100 acres given them by OKC for completion of FAM.

btmec
10-25-2020, 08:01 PM
I'm ¼ Cherokee. My dad's mom was full Cherokee. Growing up with my heritage, family stories, etc was great but this museum has to be interesting to non-native Americans, or else it will fail. Look at what makes a museum interesting for white people, mummies, fossils, weapons, things that take you back in time like old TVs, furniture, etc. This museum needs things like that or else it will fail and will become a huge money pit that taxpayers must support because of white guilt. Looking at a headdress or traditional dress on a mannequin won't pay the bills.

mugofbeer
10-25-2020, 08:19 PM
I agree with you, somewhat, but telling the histories of tribes would also be fascinating.