I will say that as someone who occasionally takes myself seriously, and has been laid off before, I don't just walk around demanding people be fired. Interrupting anyone's livelihood is an absolute last resort, but I just don't see where OKC has anything to show for its relationship with the state government.

In Ohio, Cleveland gets the historic tax credits, Columbus gets the nice road projects, and Cincy and Columbus split most of the housing tax credits. In Texas, the urban areas can mostly make their own policy without interference. In Kansas, most of the nice road projects are designed to suck more of the KC metro into Kansas. In Minnesota and Illinois, the MSP/CHI get most of the road projects, development incentives, higher ed resources, AND get to make their own policy. In Oklahoma, OKC gets literally nothing.

Looking at the ariel it has access from 35/40. It was mentioned before that they are going to put an entrance from S15th. From a tourism perspective it seems like a great way to get people traveling on those main arteries. A hotel just North, and more in Bricktown about a mile or so away. If they planned it right they could have made Crosstown end there.

I'd love to see all the development on this land add to the AICMM with businesses and lodging all geared towards indigenous culture. It would be great to attract residents, tourists, and students (particularly on field trips) to a Native American district with the museum, two or three restaurants, a couple art galleries, a hotel steeped in indigenous histories, spaces for weekly festivals, etc. The entire area could be dedicated to a deeper understanding of Native American cultures and histories.

I love this idea! While reading, I envisioned an urban neighborhood of Native American architecture.

I love this idea! While reading, I envisioned an urban neighborhood of Native American architecture.
What exactly is Native American architecture? Would that be stucco Pueblo style?

What exactly is Native American architecture? Would that be stucco Pueblo style?

That's one style of the southwestern tribes. Other styles include the wattle-and-daub buildings and chickees of the southeastern tribes, grass buildings of the southern plains tribes, tipis of the northern plains, wigwams and longhouses of the northeast, plank houses and longhouses of the northwest, earthen buildings that were used by many tribes, and mounds of much of the eastern US. Also, within each regional architecture there are different styles. But since the AICC pertains only to the 39 tribes of Oklahoma, the styles that would be represented would be from almost all of the regions except for the southwest, if I'm not mistaken.

That's one style of the southwestern tribes. Other styles include the wattle-and-daub buildings and chickees of the southeastern tribes, grass buildings of the southern plains tribes, tipis of the northern plains, wigwams and longhouses of the northeast, plank houses and longhouses of the northwest, earthen buildings that were used by many tribes, and mounds of much of the eastern US. Also, within each regional architecture there are different styles. But since the AICC pertains only to the 39 tribes of Oklahoma, the styles that would be represented would be from almost all of the regions except for the southwest, if I'm not mistaken.

Which styles lend themselves to also be good modern construction? Cost...energy efficiency...etc

What about a tribal university/college on a portion of this land?

I'd love to see all the development on this land add to the AICMM with businesses and lodging all geared towards indigenous culture. It would be great to attract residents, tourists, and students (particularly on field trips) to a Native American district with the museum, two or three restaurants, a couple art galleries, a hotel steeped in indigenous histories, spaces for weekly festivals, etc. The entire area could be dedicated to a deeper understanding of Native American cultures and histories.

The only concern I have with a single tribe taking over the operations of the AICMM is the exclusion of the other tribes in Oklahoma. Not sure how that would be managed.

^^^^
I can tell you that the Chickasaw Plaza on the canal recently saw the installation of a number of interpretive bronze plaques surrounding the Warrior sculpture, and it is VERY inclusive of other native tribes in the telling of the story. I was curious about whether they would stick largely to the Chickasaw story, which of course would be defensible in the case of a Chickasaw-specific site, but was very pleasantly surprised about the amount of detail there about ALL of the state's native history, including native tribes here before removal/relocation brought the Chickasaws here.

Oh nice, I was wondering if they'd ever put the plaques back.

It's the state. Anything they do is incredibly damaging. From their perspective, I-35 and I-40 is as central as you can get.

At this point I think the city should do something punitive like install speed bumps on Lincoln Blvd every 50 feet.

The City does not control Lincoln. It is an unsigned State highway. ODOT is responsible for maintenance (at least north of 23rd).

I wish I could find the original plans when Kelly Haney and Tommy Thompson were strong-arming the Legislature into using the current location. At one point, there was going to be an 18 hole golf course east of Eastern along with a large resort-style hotel. That type of development was how they planned on paying for the "cultural" portions of the center.

The whole area, near the Boathouse District - Riversport Rapids (north banks) and the AICCM (south banks) has the potential to become a tourist mecca. Complementary development in these areas could trigger a 'hot tourist spot' (access from I-35/I-40 interchange).

Just imagine a nice 600-700 ft high Skydance Tower (scenic observation deck with a reputable restaurant) that could anchor or distaff the north & south bank areas. Hope we can get something like this on MAPS IV.

Which styles lend themselves to also be good modern construction? Cost...energy efficiency...etc

I would think any of them could be.

The whole area, near the Boathouse District - Riversport Rapids (north banks) and the AICCM (south banks) has the potential to become a tourist mecca. Complementary development in these areas could trigger a 'hot tourist spot' (access from I-35/I-40 interchange).

Just imagine a nice 600-700 ft high Skydance Tower (scenic observation deck with a reputable restaurant) that could anchor or distaff the north & south bank areas. Hope we can get something like this on MAPS IV.

How about an actual need?

It needs to be over 1000ft tall honestly.

It needs to be over 1000ft tall honestly. :congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats: :congrats: Skydance Tower, you can see Wichita, Amarillo, Tulsa & Dallas... :D

http://www.lifecare-edinburgh.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/4759535950_3da0ea181e_o.png

Put our stamp on the BIG LEAGUE CITY TAG. I-35/I-40 corridor is the Crossroads of North America. Finish the museum and pin that area with some kind of vertical landmark to complement Boathouse Row (& Riversport Rapids), AICCM & Landmark monument.


Skydance Tower = 1,000 feet. This will rival St. Louis' Gateway Arch.

It's time to break out!

The whole area, near the Boathouse District - Riversport Rapids (north banks) and the AICCM (south banks) has the potential to become a tourist mecca. Complementary development in these areas could trigger a 'hot tourist spot' (access from I-35/I-40 interchange).

Just imagine a nice 600-700 ft high Skydance Tower (scenic observation deck with a reputable restaurant) that could anchor or distaff the north & south bank areas. Hope we can get something like this on MAPS IV.


How about an actual need?


It needs to be over 1000ft tall honestly.

HA! You fools!

A skydance tower…

NO! A 2,000 feet tall OIL DERRICK the straddles the river and shoots water at certain times of the day would be the ultimate prize. Muahahaha.

But seriously, as much as Spartan and some others may hate it, I liked the proposal from years ago about that 700' oil derrick over the river.
It's hokie, but is a total tourist draw and could be a huge benefitting factor for OKC and the state. And yes, I'm totally talking on the scale of the Arch or Space Needle.

Everything we build through MAPS or bonds may not directly pay for themselves individually. We need to look toward the future, say 5-10 years ahead as to how these projects impact OKC holistically.

May be my optimism; however, look for something big to be announced in OKC post 2020. Our city is truly on the verge.

I think a hotel, convention center, and performance hall would be a good fit here. Add in two or three restaurants and you're good. The location of this development means it'll be incredibly dependent on automobile traffic. Fortunately it's close to the interstate. Build a large parking garage, and leave room for future development. Eventually, we would want residential buildings and other things like that here, but it'll be 30 years from now or more before downtown spreads out that far.

Rather than American Indian architecture, you could incorporate American Indian themes into the buildings.

How about a tower that's 1,830' tall? To mark the beginning of the removal of tribes to Oklahoma.

How about a tower that's 1,830' tall? To mark the beginning of the removal of tribes to Oklahoma.

Get outta here--you pulling my leg...

The Trail of Tears (Year: 1830) Tower does has a nice ring to it. Are there any Indians or Native Americans on the board who would like to address this?

My question: How architectural sound would a tower be at that height with OKC's wind velocity; any architects out there?

Think we would be safe with something in the 1,000 feet and under range.

Get outta here--you pulling my leg...

The Trail of Tears (Year: 1830) Tower does has a nice ring to it. Are there any Indians or Native Americans on the board who would like to address this?

My question: How architectural sound would a tower be at that height with OKC's wind velocity; any architects out there?

Think we would be safe with something in the 1,000 feet and under range.

I'm over half Native American (Choctaw, Navajo, and Cherokee) and I think it would be pretty cool; a huge structure commemorating the walks and our resilience.

Oklahoma City wins extension in finalizing plans for American Indian Cultural Center and Museum | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/okc-wins-extension-in-finalizing-plans-for-indian-museum/article/5469740)


Oklahoma City has another 60 days to revive the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum.

Acting under provisions of a law passed earlier this year to transfer responsibility for the center to the city, a state official on Wednesday extended the deadline for a deal from Jan. 15 to March 15.

City Manager Jim Couch requested the extension after the Chickasaw Nation offered to partner with the city, potentially bringing millions of dollars to the effort to get the dormant project on track.

I think a hotel, convention center, and performance hall would be a good fit here. Add in two or three restaurants and you're good. The location of this development means it'll be incredibly dependent on automobile traffic. Fortunately it's close to the interstate. Build a large parking garage, and leave room for future development. Eventually, we would want residential buildings and other things like that here, but it'll be 30 years from now or more before downtown spreads out that far.

Rather than American Indian architecture, you could incorporate American Indian themes into the buildings.

Good god, nooooo. Have you never been to a sizable conference or convention and experienced how much the local hotels other than the main convention center hotel are used? As an example, I recently registered for one coming up in the spring in Denver, and the list of hotels to choose from was probably 30 long. We would be far better off not bothering to spend the money to replace our existing convention center than to build a new one in the middle of a field far from any existing hotel stock. And that doesn't even take into consideration all of the other amenities it would be far, far from.

This isn't the worst possible place to build it as there are plenty of other terrible choices, but it ranks up there.

Good god, nooooo. Have you never been to a sizable conference or convention and experienced how much the local hotels other than the main convention center hotel are used? As an example, I recently registered for one coming up in the spring in Denver, and the list of hotels to choose from was probably 30 long. We would be far better off not bothering to spend the money to replace our existing convention center than to build a new one in the middle of a field far from any existing hotel stock. And that doesn't even take into consideration all of the other amenities it would be far, far from.

This isn't the worst possible place to build it as there are plenty of other terrible choices, but it ranks up there.

I'm not saying we put the MAPS convention center there. I'm saying it would be a good place for a hotel/convention center/performance hall. Hell, Rose State has something like that. It doesn't have to be enormous. But we do need something relatively self-contained.

Oklahoma City wins extension in finalizing plans for American Indian Cultural Center and Museum | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/okc-wins-extension-in-finalizing-plans-for-indian-museum/article/5469740)

We "win" extension? Wow the state is really taking care of us. Small victories I guess...

I'm not saying we put the MAPS convention center there. I'm saying it would be a good place for a hotel/convention center/performance hall. Hell, Rose State has something like that. It doesn't have to be enormous. But we do need something relatively self-contained.

Oh, well, that makes more sense.

How about a tower that's 1,830' tall? To mark the beginning of the removal of tribes to Oklahoma.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

We "win" extension? Wow the state is really taking care of us. Small victories I guess...

Spartan, there is no reason to get excited about how a headline writer characterizes this. LOL

I made a rough SketchUp model of what my vision would be for a district at the AICC. What I've modeled is how I think Native American cities could've have looked like had they had a few more generations to develop, similar to how cities developed in the Old World. The styles of the buildings would be derived from the tribes of Oklahoma.
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I'm not saying we put the MAPS convention center there. I'm saying it would be a good place for a hotel/convention center/performance hall. Hell, Rose State has something like that. It doesn't have to be enormous. But we do need something relatively self-contained.

If they put a Native American Cultural Research and Learning Center along with the museum they could add the hotel convention center for all kinds of meetings/lectures, etc. on the academic study of the culture and history. They then could assemble a great range of artifacts for study and display. Where is the preeminent research center for Native American studies now?

If they also put canals off the river through the property they could have a Native American Venice with canoe and dugout rides through villages.

If they put a Native American Cultural Research and Learning Center along with the museum they could add the hotel convention center for all kinds of meetings/lectures, etc. on the academic study of the culture and history. They then could assemble a great range of artifacts for study and display. Where is the preeminent research center for Native American studies now?

If they also put canals off the river through the property they could have a Native American Venice with canoe and dugout rides through villages.

Love this idea. I'm sure they could develop some kind of partnership with universities or centers (e.g., Jacobson House) with indigenous books, artifacts, art, etc.

I still think that The Smithsonian should get involved with this endeavor and am surprised that they hadn't.

I made a rough SketchUp model of what my vision would be for a district at the AICC. What I've modeled is how I think Native American cities could've have looked like had they had a few more generations to develop, similar to how cities developed in the Old World. The styles of the buildings would be derived from the tribes of Oklahoma.
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I wouldn't want to be on the west side next to I-35. Pretty noisy and dirty......

I wouldn't want to be on the west side next to I-35. Pretty noisy and dirty......

Dirty? What does that mean?

I still think that The Smithsonian should get involved with this endeavor and am surprised that they hadn't.

They are, just not financially. The Smithsonian also has its own new National Museum of the American Indian in DC. The storage spaces in the AICCM complex are built to Smithsonian specifications...

Dirty? What does that mean?

Vehicles kick up a lot of dust, dirt, and grime, and spew a lot of exhaust. This is an incredible busy intersection, so I think the sentiment is valid.

Vehicles kick up a lot of dust, dirt, and grime, and spew a lot of exhaust. This is an incredible busy intersection, so I think the sentiment is valid.

Sorry, but I think that is bit of a stretch anyway. There are a lot of reasons for not wanting to be next to an Interstate interchange but dirt is not a major factor in my opinion.

Oklahoma City Accepts Offer From Chickasaw Nation To Finish, Run AICCM | KGOU (http://kgou.org/post/oklahoma-city-accepts-offer-chickasaw-nation-finish-run-aiccm#stream/0)

Nice!

I have to wonder if the $40 million in private pledges still exists. Also, what exactly does "value-engineering" mean? When it was suggested that anything less than the "vision" option be used all hell broke loose here on OKCTalk. Is everyone on board now with a facility that could cost $60 million less than promised, and if so, then why not just let the State keep it and all the revenue - you know, to pay back the taxpayers.

From the Oklahoman...

"Oklahoma City is looking for changes from the Legislature in a law that would shift responsibility for the stalled American Indian Cultural Center and Museum from the state of Oklahoma to the city.

City Manager Jim Couch said Tuesday that city leaders want the Legislature to roll back a revenue-sharing provision and drop plans for a new authority that would oversee state-issued bonds."

"That's a bad deal for the city, Couch said. “We're taking all the risk,” he said."

Oklahoma City seeks changes in Indian museum proposal | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-seeks-changes-in-indian-museum-proposal/article/5474966)

Sorry, but I think that is bit of a stretch anyway. There are a lot of reasons for not wanting to be next to an Interstate interchange but dirt is not a major factor in my opinion.

Dirt is rather unpleasant. I try to avoid it.

You should see the site before balking at calling it dirty. It's pretty dirty, and that was before the new dirt mount. Lots of dirt all around.

Dirty? What does that mean?

It means that, if you are on the western end of the project, you will be dealing with the dirt and grime from the vehicular traffic on I-35.

I have to wonder if the $40 million in private pledges still exists. Also, what exactly does "value-engineering" mean? When it was suggested that anything less than the "vision" option be used all hell broke loose here on OKCTalk. Is everyone on board now with a facility that could cost $60 million less than promised, and if so, then why not just let the State keep it and all the revenue - you know, to pay back the taxpayers.

The school teachers are gonna lose their minds over this....... And how do you mow the grass on those mounds?

It means that, if you are on the western end of the project, you will be dealing with the dirt and grime from the vehicular traffic on I-35.

I'm sorry but I still don't see that as a major issue. It may have happened before but this is the first time I've seen that being a concern about being next to an interstate here in OKC. I understand noise being an issue but not dirt. I drive on the freeways here all of the time and I get more dirt on my car while it's parked in a parking lot than when I'm on a freeway.

It means that, if you are on the western end of the project, you will be dealing with the dirt and grime from the vehicular traffic on I-35.

That makes no sense as actually being a problem. All over the metro there are developments a stone's throw from interstates and highways. Why would that issue stop any development on the AICCM site when it didn't stop the Metropolitan or the GE Global Research center?

That makes no sense as actually being a problem. All over the metro there are developments a stone's throw from interstates and highways. Why would that issue stop any development on the AICCM site when it didn't stop the Metropolitan or the GE Global Research center?
That exactly what I thought. Some people are trying to invent a problem here. I guess we shouldn't be working on the new downtown park since it's next to the freeway and it will always be dirty. LOL

Dirty? I took the original comment to mean that the surrounding area is generally unpleasant visually: Heavy industrial, bus station, truck stops, vacant industrial land, roads in serious need of repair, dilapidated houses, rail yard, oil supply company, oil storage facilities, abandoned oil wells, seedy motels, unattractive river on the east side Eastern, etc... The area doesn't exactly put OKC's best foot forward and roll out the welcome mat for what many hope will be international tourist.

Dirty? I took the original comment to mean that the surrounding area is generally unpleasant visually: Heavy industrial, bus station, truck stops, vacant industrial land, roads in serious need of repair, dilapidated houses, rail yard, oil supply company, oil storage facilities, abandoned oil wells, seedy motels, unattractive river on the east side Eastern, etc... The area doesn't exactly put OKC's best foot forward and roll out the welcome mat for what many hope will be international tourist.

You're right, Kerry. That area should just be abandoned as a lost cause. There is absolutely no way the area could ever be improved.

I had never been over to this area until a friend had me go with them to the flea market a few weeks back. I don't remember the immediate area being all that terrible. Certainly not anything that couldn't be fixed by leveling it out and building new, anyway.

You're right, Kerry. That area should just be abandoned as a lost cause. There is absolutely no way the area could ever be improved.

I didn't say it couldn't be improved - I was just stating what I thought the original comment was implying. As for fixing the area up, if the level of toxic soil is anything like what existed at the AICCM then it will cost a pretty penny, and considering the whole area was once the same oil field, my guess is that it is all just as polluted.

I didn't say it couldn't be improved - I was just stating what I thought the original comment was implying. As for fixing the area up, if the level of toxic soil is anything like what existed at the AICCM then it will cost a pretty penny, and considering the whole area was once the same oil field, my guess is that it is all just as polluted.

Very familiar with that bounded area: [SE 15th (south), Oklahoma River (north), Western (west) Bryant (east)]; it's going to take some cleaning up to get that area (AICCM) near the river ready for development.

Does the government (state or federal levels) have some funds to clean up these old abandoned oil field sites: Oklahoma oil field cleanup effort tops 13,000 | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3892038)

We use to live in the Page-Woodson area (Oak Park Addition); they cleaned up many abandoned sites in that area.

As for fixing the area up, if the level of toxic soil is anything like what existed at the AICCM then it will cost a pretty penny, and considering the whole area was once the same oil field, my guess is that it is all just as polluted.

My guess is that the people involved are well aware of what may possibly be needed for cleanup.

My guess is that the people involved are well aware of what may possibly be needed for cleanup.


There is already a plan to cleanup the surrounding area?

My guess is that the people involved are well aware of what may possibly be needed for cleanup.


There is already a plan to cleanup the surrounding area?

There is already a plan to cleanup the surrounding area?
Of course that is not what I said at all so I don't know why you asked that. You seemed to be implying that the idea that some cleanup might be required had not been considered. I have little doubt that it was considered even if exact plans are not in place.

The problem the AICC has is that it's too far from downtown for good urban development to realistically get there anytime soon. At our current rate of growth, it'll be 40 or 50 years before they expand out to there. In addition to that, the area between downtown and the AICC has a lot of environmental concerns. That means that expanding in other directions is a lot easier. Those aren't insurmountable issues, but they are issues.

Of course that is not what I said at all so I don't know why you asked that. You seemed to be implying that the idea that some cleanup might be required had not been considered. I have little doubt that it was considered even if exact plans are not in place.

I asked because all the AICC land has already been cleaned up. Maybe I should have asked, the people involved in what are probably already aware of what needs to be cleaned up?