And for the record, I would love full-blown class 3. Just don't think it will happen.

OKCTalk - Report reveals commercial potential of American Indian Cultural Center (http://www.okctalk.com/content/196-report-outlines-commercial-potential-american-indian-cultural-center.html)

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okshores.jpg

I don't know what to think of this.

OKCTalk - Report reveals commercial potential of American Indian Cultural Center (http://www.okctalk.com/content/196-report-outlines-commercial-potential-american-indian-cultural-center.html)

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okshores.jpg


I don't know what to think of this.

By the looks of that observation tower (smile :D), would you say at least 500 feet? Does look impressive!

JTF (Kerry), wake-up man, you've got to see this! :wink:

They should just call it Dell East. Other than that it isn't worth commenting on.

That's a study and some general recommendations. It's not a master plan, it's not intended to be one, and it shouldn't be confused for one. Site plan critiques (or pointed non-critiques) aren't worth the pixels with which they are composed.

That's a study and some general recommendations. It's not a master plan, it's not intended to be one, and it shouldn't be confused for one. Site plan critiques (or pointed non-critiques) aren't worth the pixels with which they are composed.

Ahh, but many people will see this and think that is what was proposed. Renderings are a double-edged sword. I do think it's appropriate to say that people need to fight tooth & nail against so much surface parking, as it's obviously what people thought about when they dreamed this rendering up. The economic analysis should be done with little to no surface parking in mind - compute costs assuming a garage or two.

Ah ha! I've got it!

Instead of that space needle looking copy, how about that ever popular 700' oil derrick that shoots water every hour!
Come on, folks... Now THAT could be a serious attraction, even if it's super hokie.

In all seriousness, there doesn't appear to be much there as it is. This, even while it's a simple conceptual study, does provide a glimpse of potential. I do like that inlet proposal. The more you can utilize water as an attraction, the better.

A few interesting ideas, that boardwalk pedestrian bridge over the river jumps out at me in particular.

Ah ha! I've got it!

Instead of that space needle looking copy, how about that ever popular 700' oil derrick that shoots water every hour!
Come on, folks... Now THAT could be a serious attraction, even if it's super hokie.

In all seriousness, there doesn't appear to be much there as it is. This, even while it's a simple conceptual study, does provide a glimpse of potential. I do like that inlet proposal. The more you can utilize water as an attraction, the better.

Hey I actually liked the oil derrick idea! It could give us a cool attraction and though impossible to time, now we even have the earth rumblings to make the hourly gusher sequence seem real! (I kid, at least about the earthquake part).

I like the inlet idea as well. I also think the boardwalk is a great idea, though if we were to have one, I think it would be better suited on the north bank of the river closer to the new park. On the other hand, it could be cool to have a boardwalk here connected by trail to something similar in the Wheeler district.

OKCTalk - Report reveals commercial potential of American Indian Cultural Center (http://www.okctalk.com/content/196-report-outlines-commercial-potential-american-indian-cultural-center.html)

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okshores.jpg

Love the idea of an observation tower.

The idea I had was for a futuristic, hopefully elegant, barebones spiral tipi of 5 curved "poles" that straddled the river and I35. Each pole would have an escalator/elevator/steps to leads to a walkable platform right over I35/River that connects the poles as they curve around. The poles would continue to spiral up and into each other, meeting about 600-700 feet up like the traditional tipi visual, with each pole tapering off to varying lengths well into the sky. The meeting place of the poles would be an observation deck, with a vertical elevator from the platform below. The idea would be to create something that a) would provide a visually distinct and unique monument to the skyline, one that symbolizes the union between tradition and technology, the past and the future and b) functionally provide a way to walk between the AICC and the Boathouse District, and thus by extension Bricktown. If there was 1000 or so units for living west of the AICC it would make the platform even more functional.

I could never get the design right to represent the concept in my head, as I'm not artist. But I think a vertical monument of some sort will help provide a distinct visual stamp for our skyline, and the AICC area would be as good as an area as any.

Six Flags could take it over and make it a Native American Theme Park like Busch Gardens Tampa did with Africa except different areas are different tribes. You can have fun and ride roller coasters while learning about the history of Native Americans. I can see them putting snow on the hill and people sledding down it, a ride that shoots you in the air out of a bow like thing and you are in a ride that looks like an arrow.

Six Flags could take it over and make it a Native American Theme Park like Busch Gardens Tampa did with Africa except different areas are different tribes. You can have fun and ride roller coasters while learning about the history of Native Americans. I can see them putting snow on the hill and people sledding down it, a ride that shoots you in the air out of a bow like thing and you are in a ride that looks like an arrow.

Might as well complete the full Disneyfication of our downtown area.

If the city or a city's chosen developer were chosen to invest the money proposed in this study, a bit less parking and a bit more investment in a rail link between downtown should be considered.

Oooook-lahoma,
where mass parking sweeps across the plains
and air waves of heat,
they sure look neat
rising up from the paved lanes

oooook-lahoma,
where mass parking sweeps across the plains
and air waves of heat,
they sure look neat
rising up from the paved lanes

::like::

This may be easier to pull off with a suburban layout than an urban one. The main challenge is the total lack of direct access to anywhere. I guess the main entrance is on Eastern Avenue?

... I guess the main entrance is on Eastern Avenue?

At this time, yes. Probably remain so when all is said and done as well.

The master plan also shows a new road from the site to 15th Street.

I'm sorry this is all insane and shouldn't happen... Ugh

We have enough roads and neighborhoods that do exist and do need investment. This is how OKC continues to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

If the city or a city's chosen developer were chosen to invest the money proposed in this study, a bit less parking and a bit more investment in a rail link between downtown should be considered.
Or what about an active pedestrian ferry/water taxi service from the little alcove proposed to the river connection at the south end of the Bricktown canal?

I'm sorry this is all insane and shouldn't happen... Ugh

We have enough roads and neighborhoods that do exist and do need investment. This is how OKC continues to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Well, I will agree that this is too far from current downtown stuff for it to be effectively re-urbanized. You aren't going to get nearly the same level of development that you get in Deep Deuce or that you will be getting in Core to Shore. We've probably got another 25 years before we've built out our downtown so that it is large enough to connect it to this project.

I like the AICC, but I think we should focus our civic investments much closer to the downtown area. Perhaps we could establish some sort of design district stretching from the HSC down to this, just in case somebody decides to build a hotel or an apartment complex over here. But I think it's going to be a long time before this area takes off.

How big is the middle portion of the mound? Would it fit a soccer field? Could that thing be re-purposed for the Energy? I'm just thinking out loud, it's probably not workable in the least...

Foggy outlook: AICCM ready for winter, but future remains unclear | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2015/12/01/foggy-outlook-aiccm-ready-for-winter-but-future-remains-unclear-real-estate/)

Oklahoma lawmakers may need Plan B for Indian cultural center and museum | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-lawmakers-may-need-plan-b-for-indian-cultural-center-and-museum/article/5465555)

^

Given the comments of Couch and Cornett, sounds very much like the City is not going to be taking this on, at least not at the terms being proposed by the state.

The city really is in the drivers seat on this one. We should dictate our terms to the state. This could be a win - win situation, but the city has to decide how to get the win. The state will be content with simply unloading it -- at any cost, I think.

Thanks for the $90 million, State of Oklahoma!

At what point can the city seize the site back from the state? Just whenever? And does it come with ownership of the buildings?

When the State gives it away without any strings attached.

^^^^^^^
As per their agreement with the City. The City of OKC holds all of the cards here, but that doesn't keep the State from acting like THEY do. They'll learn.

They have put unreasonable demands on the city.

Yeah, the city can just take it back, for free. No strings attached. I think the plan the state passed was one where they could shift blame. "We tried to get it finished, but the city wouldn't blah blah blah." It doesn't make sense for the city to accept this deal.

If I were the city, I'd leave it in the state's possession for now. Let them pay the upkeep. Once they get regional rail transit started, reclaim the property and make sure a stop goes there. Do something with it, but don't take it back until you're ready to make something in that spot.

Yeah, the city can just take it back, for free. No strings attached. I think the plan the state passed was one where they could shift blame. "We tried to get it finished, but the city wouldn't blah blah blah." It doesn't make sense for the city to accept this deal.

If I were the city, I'd leave it in the state's possession for now. Let them pay the upkeep. Once they get regional rail transit started, reclaim the property and make sure a stop goes there. Do something with it, but don't take it back until you're ready to make something in that spot.

Oklahoma City has the state in a scrotum vice grip; however, lets not over play our hand exploring testicle inventory.

There's a lot of potential to begin development of the south banks of the Oklahoma River from Eastern toward Meridian Avenues. Let wrap this up; open this area for future development. The AICCM could be a springboard. Love hoyasooner's idea about regional rail transit through that area.

Chickasaw Nation offers to partner with Oklahoma City to complete and open Indian Cultural Center and Museum | News OK (http://newsok.com/chickasaw-nation-offers-to-partner-with-oklahoma-city-to-complete-and-open-indian-cultural-center-and-museum/article/5468307)

I would be all for this. They certainly know how to market, and would create another success.

This is amazing news. Let's do this!

I would love to see a Hard Rock Cafe Casino preferably over 25 stories. Factor in some 10-20 story hotels and this could become awesome.

Piece by piece the Tribes are getting their land back.

I'm cool with this idea in principle (not with a casino though, and not because I'm anti-casino/gambling), but where have they been all this time with this offer? I'm not at all assuming there's ill intent. Just wondering what changed their calculus about the situation.

Since this isn't tribal land in the original boundaries of the Chickasaw Nation, they cannot put a casino here. No tribe can as this was not assigned land. They could put a hotel and other subsidiary business entities, but not a casino.

I'm cool with this idea in principle (not with a casino though, and not because I'm anti-casino/gambling), but where have they been all this time with this offer? I'm not at all assuming there's ill intent. Just wondering what changed their calculus about the situation.

Probably waiting to see if OKC was going to take the state offer ?

The Chickasaw Nation owns Remington Park, which has a casino, and isn't part of the Chickasaw Nation. What would stop them from including gaming as part of the development of the land around the AICCM site, ifthe city & state agree to their proposal?

Since this isn't tribal land in the original boundaries of the Chickasaw Nation, they cannot put a casino here. No tribe can as this was not assigned land. They could put a hotel and other subsidiary business entities, but not a casino.

The Chickasaw Nation owns Remington Park, which has a casino, and isn't part of the Chickasaw Nation. What would stop them from including gaming as part of the development of the land around the AICCM site, ifthe city & state agree to their proposal?

Might find answers here -

http://www.okctalk.com/current-events-open-topic/26436-remington-park-indian-casino.html

The Chickasaw Nation owns Remington Park, which has a casino, and isn't part of the Chickasaw Nation. What would stop them from including gaming as part of the development of the land around the AICCM site, ifthe city & state agree to their proposal?

Remington has a casino only because it was approved by the state to have casinos at racetracks, regardless of who owns them or what land they are located on. Thus, they would have to build a racetrack at the AICCM. Not going to happen.

Remington has a casino only because it was approved by the state to have casinos at racetracks, regardless of who owns them or what land they are located on. Thus, they would have to build a racetrack at the AICCM. Not going to happen.

+1

Remington isn't a tribal casino. It was a casino before a subsidiary of the Chickasaw Nation bought it.

The Indian Gaming Act is pretty clear that tribes can only operate casinos on tribal trust land inside the territories of their respective nation. That is not the case with the museum, and I don't sense the city, state, or museum committee has any appetite to change this.

As already stated, the casino on Remington Park property is allowed when the state voted to legalize "racinos." And the tribe itself does not own the casino through its gaming commission; a tribal-affiliated company is the actual operator.

The Indian Gaming Act is pretty clear that tribes can only operate casinos on tribal trust land inside the territories of their respective nation. That is not the case with the museum, and I don't sense the city, state, or museum committee has any appetite to change this.

When this issue came up a few years ago with a tribe wanting to put a casino in OKC, the City pretty much staked the position that it would never be supported or allowed by the city. As you aptly stated....the city has no "appetite to change this" position.

they would have to build a racetrack at the AICCM

Technically it fronts a race track (the river). But that probably doesn't count. :-P

http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00feKQInHqCCbz/Electrical-Toy-Slot-Car-Electronic-Slot-Car-Play-Set-Railway-Car-Track-Car-Slotcar-Set-ZZC94026.jpg

When this issue came up a few years ago with a tribe wanting to put a casino in OKC, the City pretty much staked the position that it would never be supported or allowed by the city. As you aptly stated....the city has no "appetite to change this" position.When was that? I don't recall that.

Shawnee Tribe proposed a casino off 35 and Wilshire-denied in 2010.

Interior Department rejects Shawnee Tribe gaming bid for Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3513442)

Technically it fronts a race track (the river). But that probably doesn't count. :-P

Why doesn't it? All they'd need to do is build a boathouse & some grandstands attached to a Casino & host racing events that you can bet on. (and remember, the grandstands proposal was removed from MAPs river improvements).

I think there is definitely a loophole here.

Anyway, this is a a side conversation. We should be focused on the fact that there seems to be a plan in place to not only finish the AICCM (HOORAYY!!!!) but also to develop the surrounding area (YESSSS!)

This is some of the biggest OKC news I can remember in the last few years. This is day/week/month making news. This is absolutely outstanding news. I'm pumped.

Shawnee Tribe proposed a casino off 35 and Wilshire-denied in 2010.

Interior Department rejects Shawnee Tribe gaming bid for Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3513442)Wow. That sucks. A $400 million dollar development. That would have been huge.

Anyways, I didn't know about that. Interesting.

This is some of the biggest OKC news I can remember in the last few years. This is day/week/month making news. This is absolutely outstanding news. I'm pumped.I agree. This is a tribe with a lot of money and I'm pumped about this!

Loophole

Not much of one. First they would have to get a paramutual track approved at the location. My guess is that would take a vote of the people, not to mention race commission and whoever else approving it. It would be easier to pass a vote for a casino.

Great News!


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYqUjbiTKgqc2fUPwB29ZBu6klbvYiV _PAZM-S0w42WQv6iB6m https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRk7fXZ6cfAlgGYuzR7WR21cEdWY5UfA ab9MVj1FgjWnHWx8xKWNAhttp://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/07/22/78/d6/winstar-global-event.jpg
Just a sample of the 'quality construction' by the Chickasaws. Image the potential of what they could bring to OKC.

The Chickasaw Nation has the resources to put in a luxury hotel & convention assembly center on those premises along with who knows what. They don't need a casino there; what they will need from the City--construct the roads, utilities & sewer lines; divide up the parcels for development.

This could be a real game-changer to kick start that area.

Steve tweeted something from the meeting this afternoon that indicated that the deed restrictions on the land involved specifically prohibited casinos (and probably other uses), so regardless of statute, no casinos.

Possible partnership: Chickasaw Nation offers to save American Indian Cultural Center | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2015/12/22/possible-partnership-chickasaw-nation-offers-to-save-american-indian-cultural-center-real-estate/?platform=hootsuite)

http://www.news9.com/story/30814787/last-minute-proposal-could-save-american-indian-cultural-center