Let's see.... most of the posters here criticize OKC and OK for always thinking too small and not doing things first class. Then, when the decisions are made to try to do things world class they immediately call it a boondoggle and the tea party is up in arms (not that they want to pay for ANY museum or ANY cultural facility ... who needs culture when you can save a buck, right?). So, let's insure it will fail by trying to do it on the absolute cheap and then criticize why it is just another failure to do it right. When this state actually starts valuing CULTURE (no, cockfighting is not culture) THEN maybe we will earn our place in the world. Til then, we are just a cheap tea party state that should be very thankful we sit on top of a lot of oil and gas.

Amen x 2. This is an opportunity to think big and do it right. This project has been subject to multiple audits, more than most, and it's won my support. I was very skeptical at first and can't believe the audits came back so glowingly. This is clearly not a boondoggle. This is an important, vital project stupidly caught in political limbo. This thing is 90% built, to not finish it ASAP is so shockingly short sighted even by 23rd and Lincoln standards.

metro, if memory serves, (now former) Sen. Enoch Kelly Haney was either at the forefront of this endeavor or very near the front of the line.

If not for a couple of F-5's last spring, more than likely it would have been funded....hopefully it'll happen this year.

well, it might happen if some folks don't go and develop primarphobia ... the fear of being labeled not conservative enough in their election primary.

To stop building it now would be like making every car payment except for the last one, and then letting your vehicle get repossessed because "it costs too much money".

To stop building it now would be like making every car payment except for the last one, and then letting your vehicle get repossessed because "it costs too much money".

Or voting in the mayor's election to halt our current momentum.

To stop building it now would be like making every car payment except for the last one, and then letting your vehicle get repossessed because "it costs too much money".

And said car is a BMW that you'd been paying off for a ridiculously elongated loan period

Let's see.... most of the posters here criticize OKC and OK for always thinking too small and not doing things first class. Then, when the decisions are made to try to do things world class they immediately call it a boondoggle and the tea party is up in arms (not that they want to pay for ANY museum or ANY cultural facility ... who needs culture when you can save a buck, right?). So, let's insure it will fail by trying to do it on the absolute cheap and then criticize why it is just another failure to do it right. When this state actually starts valuing CULTURE (no, cockfighting is not culture) THEN maybe we will earn our place in the world. Til then, we are just a cheap tea party state that should be very thankful we sit on top of a lot of oil and gas.

:congrats: Could not agree more. The sad thing is we do not have to be that way. We do so as a conscious choice - especially when we are in the voting booth.

Let's see.... most of the posters here criticize OKC and OK for always thinking too small and not doing things first class. Then, when the decisions are made to try to do things world class they immediately call it a boondoggle and the tea party is up in arms (not that they want to pay for ANY museum or ANY cultural facility ... who needs culture when you can save a buck, right?). So, let's insure it will fail by trying to do it on the absolute cheap and then criticize why it is just another failure to do it right. When this state actually starts valuing CULTURE (no, cockfighting is not culture) THEN maybe we will earn our place in the world. Til then, we are just a cheap tea party state that should be very thankful we sit on top of a lot of oil and gas.

Like.

Let's see.... most of the posters here criticize OKC and OK for always thinking too small and not doing things first class. Then, when the decisions are made to try to do things world class they immediately call it a boondoggle and the tea party is up in arms (not that they want to pay for ANY museum or ANY cultural facility ... who needs culture when you can save a buck, right?). So, let's insure it will fail by trying to do it on the absolute cheap and then criticize why it is just another failure to do it right. When this state actually starts valuing CULTURE (no, cockfighting is not culture) THEN maybe we will earn our place in the world. Til then, we are just a cheap tea party state that should be very thankful we sit on top of a lot of oil and gas.

Completely agree.

OKC's best hope at becoming a real big league city is its current economic fortunes will last long enough to keep and bring in enough educated young people who actually value culture enough to help make a difference. Time will tell.

Completely agree.

OKC's best hope at becoming a real big league city is its current economic fortunes will last long enough to keep and bring in enough educated young people who actually value culture enough to help make a difference. Time will tell.

I really agree with Rover's post, too, and fully like the fact that the costs associated with this construction (past and future) have been audited and found to be in good faith. Expensive? Yes, but quality often doesn't come cheap.
Spoiler alert: Here's the offensive / sticky issue.
It really seems to me that this stands to benefit OKC a WHOLE lot more than the state. Why would the state sink more money into this when it the benefactor (if it works out well -- victim if it doesn't) is the City of Oklahoma City? I really think that the current talk of funding OKC's AICC museum and Tulsa's Pop Culture museum with State of Oklahoma money is an end run around the best interests of the rural part of Oklahoma. I know that Midtowner and others would reply with something like what's good for OKC (Tulsa, if this were a Tulsa-centric forum) is good for the State, but that ain't necessarily so (and doesn't it kind of reek of, "what's good for the oil industry is good for Oklahoma"?).
To be clear, I'm not against finishing this museum up and doing it classy, high quality, and right, but I wonder if it isn't something the city should tackle or at least have the city's finger in the pot.

I think the city already has skin in the game.

I agree that completion of the museum will benefit OKC far more than rural Oklahoma. I definitely think also this is a state where the politics lean towards rural interests so with that in mind it's understandable why there would be opposition to the museum. Yes it can be said what is good for OKC is good for Oklahoma, but think of it like this. Whenever there is a major economic or cultural development in Tulsa that makes OKC jealous (or vice versa) it can be said that good news for Tulsa is good news for Oklahoma which is good news for OKC. However, everybody knows that the development doesn't really benefit OKC (or Tulsa if the development is in OKC) much if at all. That is similar to how people in Poteau or Muskogee would feel about a development in OKC. Maybe the city of OKC should pick up at least part of the tab for it?

At this point, OKC should not have to participate in the funding of this project. If it was at the beginning of the process ( design or construction ), maybe. ...but not now.

Let's let the state step-up and get this completed. We don't need this project as an example of how we run our business as a state. ...not the message we want to send to others wanting to locate here or expand operations.

I agree that completion of the museum will benefit OKC far more than rural Oklahoma. I definitely think also this is a state where the politics lean towards rural interests so with that in mind it's understandable why there would be opposition to the museum. Yes it can be said what is good for OKC is good for Oklahoma, but think of it like this. Whenever there is a major economic or cultural development in Tulsa that makes OKC jealous (or vice versa) it can be said that good news for Tulsa is good news for Oklahoma which is good news for OKC. However, everybody knows that the development doesn't really benefit OKC (or Tulsa if the development is in OKC) much if at all. That is similar to how people in Poteau or Muskogee would feel about a development in OKC. Maybe the city of OKC should pick up at least part of the tab for it?

OKC gave the land.

OKC gave the land.

And IIRC, that land value was around 5 mil.

A new proposal that sounds promising in the state senate.

Oklahoma Senate unveils plan to fund American Indian Cultural Center | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-senate-unveils-plan-to-fund-american-indian-cultural-center/article/3934980)


Oklahoma’s Unclaimed Property Fund would be tapped for $40 million to help complete Oklahoma City’s American Indian Cultural Center and Museum under a proposal confirmed Tuesday by the state Senate.


The plan will be presented to the state Senate Appropriations Committee for consideration on Wednesday and could be presented to the full Senate for consideration as early as next week, said state Sen. Kyle Loveless, R-Oklahoma City, co-author of the Senate Bill 1651.

The bill calls for the state to take $40 million in excess funds from the Unclaimed Property Fund and use that money to match $40 million in pledged private donations, Loveless said. The state will not release the money unless the private matching funds are provided, he said.


State Treasurer Ken Miller is supportive of the proposal, said Tim Allen, his deputy treasurer for communications and program administration. The $40 million from the Unclaimed Property Fund is beyond what is necessary to make sure that anyone who files a valid claim with the state for abandoned property gets paid, he said.

The bill calls for the museum’s current governing structure to be abolished and for the creation of a public trust to manage it.

It would prohibit the museum from accepting any future federal funds, Loveless said.

What is the reasoning behind preventing the museum from accepting any future federal funds?

I'd like to hear the reasoning for both of the last two sentences. Why abolish the current governing structure when the audits results have been so positive?

Both permit conservabots to claim a victory. Abolishing the current structure abolishes a state govt. entity if memory serves. That looks great if you have primarphobia.
Barring fed funds permits campaign postcards to champion how they barred deficit spending by the feds and kept the feds nose out of it.

The no federal funding clause could have far-reaching unintended consequences.

That was my thought. I understand that there are people in the legislature who are lockstep averse to federal funding to include grants, etc., but what if - for instance - the Smithsonian Institution wanted to do a joint exhibit involving the National Museum of the American Indian? Or...could a military history expert from West Point visit to consult or conduct a lecture regarding the Indian Relocation Act of 1830 or the Army's dealings with Geronimo? Would this preclude that? If it is as a broad statement as the story seems to indicate, it seems rife with opportunities for unintended consequences.

Because there are plenty of tea Partiers ignorant and stupid who think OK is better off only inbreeding. They are anti federalists who don't believe in being part of the union unless it gives them power. And we wonder why OK has such a backwards and poor image to the rest of the country. We hold up stupidity as a virtue.

Did anyone see the TV ad during prime time calling for finishing the AICC? It looked very well done and had several people (I'm only remembering George Nigh off the top of my head) talking about the need to finish this project. I hope it brings more public awareness to the issue and gets people calling for government to finally get the funds together to finish it. I was one of the ignorant masses who didn't know what was being built by the river until I found this forum...

Because there are plenty of tea Partiers ignorant and stupid who think OK is better off only inbreeding. They are anti federalists who don't believe in being part of the union unless it gives them power. And we wonder why OK has such a backwards and poor image to the rest of the country. We hold up stupidity as a virtue.

Speaking of image, not so sure 'Little Dixie' is full of Tea Partiers...?

Because there are plenty of tea Partiers ignorant and stupid who think OK is better off only inbreeding. They are anti federalists who don't believe in being part of the union unless it gives them p. er. And we wonder why OK has such a backwards and poor image to the rest of the country. We hold up stupidity as a virtue.

What a pity to be so full of eye bulging hate for people just because they have different opinions than you. Perhaps you might be less miserable and far happier somewhere else where you might be able to develop a higher level of self-esteem?

Speaking of image, not so sure 'Little Dixie' is full of Tea Partiers...?

Thirty years back, some of the loneliest places to be in SE OK were precinct meetings for Republicans, of any variety. These days, what had been long, long time (D) seats are held by (R) folk, and usually not the slightly right of center variety Of course, a lot of D's I grew up with and around would be slightly right of center R's in most other states.

... If it is as a broad statement as the story seems to indicate, it seems rife with opportunities for unintended consequences.

I'm simply not certain such far reaching consequences are the least bit unintended.

What a pity to be so full of eye bulging hate for people just because they have different opinions than you. Perhaps you might be less miserable and far happier somewhere else where you might be able to develop a higher level of self-esteem?
I don't hate people, I just hate stupidity.

And there are many things to love about Oklahoma. Backward thinking isn't one of them.

I don't hate people, I just hate stupidity.

And there are many things to love about Oklahoma. Backward thinking isn't one of them.

The Oklahoma legislature has made some ridiculously bad decisions. Having said that, what is your purpose in name-calling? When I taught high school government I told my students to focus on policy, not people. Otherwise, you alienate people who have different opinions than you and kill any chance for constructive dialogue. If you hope to ever have influence or change anyone's mind then respectful dialogue must be the way forward. Unfortunately, a lot of people on this site hide behind generic screen names and thus do not have to take responsibility for their words. In my 6 years of teaching at the high school level my students and I discussed tons of controversial issues and they rarely, if ever, spoke in such rude ways as is present on this site daily...

(Pete - this is in no way a commentary on this site, which has some of the best dialogue I've found in a similar online space.)

Did anyone see the TV ad during prime time calling for finishing the AICC? It looked very well done and had several people (I'm only remembering George Nigh off the top of my head) talking about the need to finish this project. I hope it brings more public awareness to the issue and gets people calling for government to finally get the funds together to finish it. I was one of the ignorant masses who didn't know what was being built by the river until I found this forum...

There have been similar ads in the past. A couple of other people in the ad were Lee Allen Smith and Robert Henry.

Advertise, Affluent, OKC FRIDAY, weekly newspaper, Oklahoma City Advertising, arts, civic, high school sports, country clubs, Nichols Hills, Village, Quail Creek, The Greens, PCNorth, Deer Creek, Casady, Heritage Hall, McGuiness, (http://okcfriday.com/lee-allan-smith-oklahomas-man-of-the-century-p3015.htm)

Robert Henry is a former US Appeals Court judge and current president of OCU. He is also a cousin of former governor, Brad Henry.

The new proposal easily won committee approval.

Committee approves bill to use Unclaimed Property Fund money for Oklahoma City's American Indian Cultural Center and Museum | News OK (http://newsok.com/committee-approves-bill-to-use-unclaimed-property-fund-money-for-oklahoma-citys-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum/article/3935203)

...Robert Henry is a former US Appeals Court judge and current president of OCU. He is also a cousin of former governor, Brad Henry.
He's also one of the funniest (haha funny) guys I've ever been around.

The new proposal easily won committee approval.

Committee approves bill to use Unclaimed Property Fund money for Oklahoma City's American Indian Cultural Center and Museum | News OK (http://newsok.com/committee-approves-bill-to-use-unclaimed-property-fund-money-for-oklahoma-citys-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum/article/3935203)

What is the deal with this bill explicitly banning the museum from accepting Federal money? We no longer want any of our tax dollars to return to our state? We insist that they be spend on other, more deserving states? Very altruistic of us.

The Oklahoma legislature has made some ridiculously bad decisions. Having said that, what is your purpose in name-calling? When I taught high school government I told my students to focus on policy, not people. Otherwise, you alienate people who have different opinions than you and kill any chance for constructive dialogue. If you hope to ever have influence or change anyone's mind then respectful dialogue must be the way forward. Unfortunately, a lot of people on this site hide behind generic screen names and thus do not have to take responsibility for their words. In my 6 years of teaching at the high school level my students and I discussed tons of controversial issues and they rarely, if ever, spoke in such rude ways as is present on this site daily...

(Pete - this is in no way a commentary on this site, which has some of the best dialogue I've found in a similar online space.)

You are correct. What is stupid IMHO is this idea to ban use of federal funds at any time. It is a common tactic used by a certain political cult and is a proverbial and classic example of cutting off the nose to spite the face. This inclusion seems reckless as it could have negative effects without an evident benefit. It seems like a misguided and potentially damaging attempt to send a message typical of a certain sect and not part of an intelligent plan. Why not accept or reject funds based on any future offer (if any) and evaluate the conditions to see if they are acceptable or not. The blanket rejection is just something we have come to expect from the Ted Nugent crowd. When will the rest of the Oklahomans say enough is enough and DEMAND some intelligence return to our local political scene?

You are correct. What is stupid IMHO is this idea to ban use of federal funds at any time.


The bill doesn't do that. You went nuts without looking into it.

The bill doesn't do that. You went nuts without looking into it.

pickles is accurate and the comments in the article do appear overstated. Section 3B of the bill reads this way:
---
The Native American Cultural Center Trust Fund shall not accept any additional federal funds issued pursuant to the Indian Financing Amendments Act of 2002, P.L. 107-331.
---

Not sure what all is in that act, but that does not appear to equate to an outright ban on any and all federal funding ever reaching the project. So, someone pass me a plate of fried crow for not realizing that.

Thirty years back, some of the loneliest places to be in SE OK were precinct meetings for Republicans, of any variety. These days, what had been long, long time (D) seats are held by (R) folk, and usually not the slightly right of center variety Of course, a lot of D's I grew up with and around would be slightly right of center R's in most other states.

Guess i'm still living in the past....

pickles is accurate and the comments in the article do appear overstated. Section 3B of the bill reads this way:
---
The Native American Cultural Center Trust Fund shall not accept any additional federal funds issued pursuant to the Indian Financing Amendments Act of 2002, P.L. 107-331.
---

Not sure what all is in that act, but that does not appear to equate to an outright ban on any and all federal funding ever reaching the project. So, someone pass me a plate of fried crow for not realizing that.
Wondered if that was the case. It seemed overly broad as reported, even for a bill coming through the OK legislature. I wondered if it was just lazy reporting or editing, which is more common in the media than most people know.

What's sad (and I am a touch miffed at myself still yet) is just how easy it was to accept the info in the article that all federal funding was barred. I wasn't even shocked enough by the idea to go pull the bill until after pickles noted that is not what the bill actually said. I suppose that speaks to my being so jaded on how long it took for them to find a way to fund the project instead of kicking the can yet again.

Of course, a lot of D's I grew up with and around would be slightly right of center R's in most other states.

Which describes me fairly well: registered Democrat for 42 years, but distinctly right of center. My brother, who lived in deepest Sally Kern territory, sometimes thought I was a small-c communist.

My apologies for believing the article was not just accurate, but complete.

Here is the act: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ331/pdf/PLAW-107publ331.pdf

Still not sure of the consequences or why additional funds, if any, would be a problem.

Looks like the House is going to be a problem for this.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3935686?embargo=1


A state Senate proposal to use $40 million from the state’s Unclaimed Property Fund to help complete Oklahoma City’s American Indian Cultural Center and Museum is receiving a chilly reception among state House Republicans.

“The initial reaction from the (Republican) caucus so far is they’re not sure this is going to be the year we’re going to be able to address that issue,” said House Speaker Jeff Hickman, R-Fairview. “It’s unfortunate, because it’s a challenging situation and it should have been addressed long ago.”

Hickman said it is a matter of priorities for House Republicans during a tight budget year, when the Legislature has $188 million less to appropriate than it did last year.

“When you have a $188 million hole, I think it’s going to be difficult to explain to our corrections employees how we were able to put $40 million into a museum and yet couldn’t address the crisis there or the issues we have in DHS or other areas of state government,” he said. “The initial reaction from the caucus was not overwhelming in terms of embracing that idea.”

If the Speaker wants it to be a priority it will be. Hiding behind corrections, when the gov's office, their party's highest elected leader, has already publicly questioned if they even have a crisis at corrections, and the House has largely ignored corrections itself for multiple sessions except to complain, is a tad weak. But, I don''t truly expect candor for that chamber, not when they prefer talking points and sound bites to the level they do.

Hickman said it is a matter of priorities for House Republicans during a tight budget year, when the Legislature has $188 million less to appropriate than it did last year.

“When you have a $188 million hole...

As the Oklahoman has pointed out explicitly at least once very recently, and we are reminded in article after article there is no funding hole/shortfall etc. revenues are at record levels. What has changed is they (the Legislature) are skimming more off the top before it goes into the General Fund to be appropriated. Doesn't necessarily mean that a particular agency is getting any less money overall. What it means is an agency will probably get less APPROPRIATED money. Not always the same thing and both sides need to stop acting like Oklahoma's fiscal house is crumbling as badly as the Capitol.

The Senate has approved.

Oklahoma Senate passes Indian museum bill | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-senate-passes-indian-museum-bill/article/3939794)

Sure hope it gets through the House, which is far from assured.

The House dems are on board so it's totally up to the repubs.

House Democrats announce support for American Indian Museum | News OK (http://newsok.com/house-democrats-announce-support-for-american-indian-museum/article/3940231)


Oklahoma House Democrats on Wednesday announced their unanimous support for a Senate bill that would allocate $40 million from the state’s Unclaimed Property Fund to help complete Oklahoma City’s American Indian Cultural Center and Museum.

“All 29 House Democrats are united in support of Senate Bill 1641,” said Rep. Scott Inman, the House minority leader. “This worthwhile project will commemorate Oklahoma’s Indian heritage and is long overdue.”

I hope they build it. I think it will add to the places to visit when in Oklahoma City. I also think it would be an interesting place to go to. If we build it, people will go there.

The House dems are on board so it's totally up to the repubs.
...,
Of course, given the current makeup in the House, it's totally up to the Repubs even if the D's were dead bang against it. It does make it easier for moderate R's to join forces, though I doubt there are that many moderates who would be willing to buck their party leadership if the word comes down to say nay. Or, for that matter, to risk being throttled in their primaries for daring to agree with a D in an election year.

Many of the repubs would just rather spend the $600,000/year on securing the site than actually finish what was started. But its probably the same people looking to defund the Arts Council. Culture isnt important to many of those on the right.

If we build it, people will go there.

I can see the Indians coming out of the cornfield now...

I can see the Indians coming out of the cornfield now...

WOW :rude:

Stalled museum project receives legislative support » Local News » The Edmond Sun (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/x787202514/Stalled-museum-project-receives-legislative-support)

I hope they build it. I think it will add to the places to visit when in Oklahoma City. I also think it would be an interesting place to go to. If we build it, people will go there.I can see the Indians coming out of the cornfield now...WOW :rude:

That was in reference to the movie - Field of Dreams

,
Of course, given the current makeup in the House, it's totally up to the Repubs even if the D's were dead bang against it. It does make it easier for moderate R's to join forces, though I doubt there are that many moderates who would be willing to buck their party leadership if the word comes down to say nay. Or, for that matter, to risk being throttled in their primaries for daring to agree with a D in an election year.

If the democrats really wanted it built they would come out against it - thus forcing republicans to automatically be for it. Of course, that would mean the repubs would get credit over total democrat opposition and for a politician getting things done isn't near as important as getting credit - which is why every half-ass government building, bridge, or structure has a plaque dedicated to the people who voted for it (as if they paid for it out of their own pocket) no matter how crappy the quality is. This is why Ed Shadid's name will be on the Streetcar plaque at the new trolley barn. (I know - unrelated - but the idea is the same).

I can see the Indians coming out of the cornfield now...

Good one !

This is why Ed Shadid's name will be on the Streetcar plaque at the new trolley barn. (I know - unrelated - but the idea is the same).

Don't bet on it, unless he is willing to donate the funds to build it:p

That was in reference to the movie - Field of Dreams

Thank you Kerry. Next time I'll drop a movie reference tag since apparently you're the only one that understood!

Just noticed Bellaboo got it too...

Sent from my BNTV600 using Tapatalk

I got it.