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bdub02
03-10-2008, 10:48 PM
News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | EXCLUSIVE: Lawmaker's anti-gay comments spark debate (http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=7983168)

This Oklahoma lawmaker says the "gay problem" is the #1 problem facing this country and that gay people are worse than Islamic terrorists such as those who hijacked planes on 9/11. She says America will not last more than a few more decades if something isn't done about the "gay problem." What is shocking is if you read the responses you will find many, if not a majority of Oklahomans (who bothered to post) agree with her stance. Some of the posters are even celebrating AIDS and suggesting all gays be but to death. Whether you believe homosexuality is a sin or not is irrelevant here; this kind of hate towards a group of HUMAN BEINGS from an elected official is way over the line.

As long as this is the kind of image OKC presents to the rest of the nation, the city will never be viewed as anything other than a backwards redneck city in the Bible Belt. I was under the assumption that OKC was really making progress, but this ordeal proves otherwise. This almost makes me ashamed to be from OKC. Not only does it give OKC a bad name but it re-enforces the hatemongering Christian stereotype.

venture
03-11-2008, 12:15 AM
Well the good part is that most Christians are not these hatemongering types that this politician represents. Honestly, these views will probably be around for a couple more decades - or so. Heck there are still those white rednecks in rural Oklahoma that will say a few choice words about people with a different color of skin. It's all about how you are raised and the environment you choose to be part of. As each generation finally dies off (that does sound kinda morbid) things will get better. Unfortunately it'll probably be the 22nd or 23rd centuries before humanity gets more enlightend to look beyond a person's skin color, race, nationality, orientation, etc.

Now if they can find a way to cure the curse of aging and extend our lives a couple hundred years, I would love to see that era.

soonerguru
03-11-2008, 01:03 AM
Someone needs to run against that f_wit. Her district has a lot of black, latino and working class. Looks like a great Dem pickup to me. Kern seems to represent what's left of the Repub Party today. Completely philosophically bankrupt. I'm sure the numerous citizens in her house district who are worrying about foreclosures, $4 gas and the coming recession are really focused on the "gay agenda." By the way, she insulted a powerful and affluent group that is motivated enough to mount a campaign against her. I'm one district over or I would consider running against her. It would be the easiest campaign this cycle.

kevinpate
03-11-2008, 04:59 AM
Perhaps not so easy soonerguru. The district also has a fair sized segment of folk who may actually view Kern as a tad moderate, but still acceptable to them.

Her predecessor had no trouble holding that area for a number of years, and he was not exactly a poster child for moderation during his tenure.

I'd venture a guess those who carried her into office are not sitting about slapping their foreheads and wondering how they could have been so wrong on their vote.
You may not agree with her, may even despise her view, but that doesn't mean she is isolated or significantly out of touch with the majority in her district.

JLCinOKC
03-11-2008, 07:47 AM
Her actions are disgusting and she should be impeached!

OU Adonis
03-11-2008, 07:54 AM
Her actions are disgusting and she should be impeached!

What is her "actions"? Her opinions on a behavior? You can disagree with her, you can think she is an idiot, but to advocate removing free speach isn't the way to go.

If she said she thought all gays should be burned at the stake I could understand, but what she said was she felt that they were a threat to American values. If you insert "Communism" where "Gay" was, would you have a problem with what she said?

"The Communist party agenda is destroying this nation; it's just a fact,” Kern is heard saying on a YouTube audio segment. "I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.”

kmf563
03-11-2008, 08:00 AM
grab your torches!!

No, maybe we should have a witch trial! Dunk her. Burn her.

Although I think she is a complete moron, hopefully the world will see that as well. She does not speak for me. Want to shut her up? Don't vote for her. Don't support her. And write letters opposing her outlandish opinions.

bombermwc
03-11-2008, 08:22 AM
Well there are always going to be stupid people out there that don't speak intelligently. One would hope that a public official would be smart enough to keep such a militant opinion to herself, but if that's her platform, it's also hard to tell her not to say it. I don't agree with her in any shape/way/form, but we can't tell her to shut up. As someone else said, that's part of the free speech thing. HOWEVER, a public official speaking like that has influence to make other people think that it may be the overwhelming opion of the state...simply because it's an elected official. Just because they were voted to an office, doesnt make them smarter or their opinion matter more...it just means more people hear it....like actors that think they have some magical importance in politics because they are popular.

So there will be idiots that think she really does speak for us all, but hopefully there are people that see we aren't all like that. And I would agree, write her letters and tell her how you disagree with her and are unhappy with her trying to present that image of OK.

BDP
03-11-2008, 08:27 AM
Well the good part is that most Christians are not these hatemongering types that this politician represents.

This may be true, but you don't hear much from them on this issue. If we were to see a unified Christian effort to condemn her sentiments, then maybe we'd see some change, but that's not going to happen. I suspect that many would not mind her policies being implemented, even if they disagree with the way in which she presents them.



If you insert "Communism" where "Gay" was, would you have a problem with what she said?

"The Communist party agenda is destroying this nation; it's just a fact,” Kern is heard saying on a YouTube audio segment. "I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.”

Actually, it would be equally as idiotic and would show just as much of a delusional paranoia. If you ask me, delusional paranoia amongst our representation is the biggest threat to our nation. In the last century, the fear of gays and communism has done more to erode the values of personal freedom on which this nation still claims to the world to be based.

The reality is that people like Kern really amount to radical theocratic revolutionaries that believe legislation and allocation of public assets should be based on their mystical beliefs and not on the original constitution or its intentions. They believe that rights and privileges should be predicated on one's own mystical beliefs. Basically, they feel freedoms and privileges provided for and protected by the government is only for those that live a life based on their own personal theocratic doctrine, not on an individuals status as American citizen. The widespread acceptance of this belief, especially in this part of the country, clearly makes that agenda a much bigger threat to the basic tenants of freedom than communism ever was in this country.

jbrown84
03-11-2008, 10:36 AM
Um, I'm pretty sure that Terrorists MURDER PEOPLE. Gay's are a bigger threat to America?? The woman is a complete and utter disgrace. She says "look at all these gay teens committing suicide". HELLO! It's because of people like you that make them feel awful about who they are.

It's very embarrassing for Oklahoma.

Bob&Frank&Ted&Bob&Alice
03-11-2008, 10:46 AM
Why am I supposed to care what New Jersey or New York or
Florida thinks about Oklahoma?

Dustbowl
03-11-2008, 10:51 AM
Someone needs to run against that f_wit. Her district has a lot of black, latino and working class. Looks like a great Dem pickup to me. Kern seems to represent what's left of the Repub Party today. Completely philosophically bankrupt. I'm sure the numerous citizens in her house district who are worrying about foreclosures, $4 gas and the coming recession are really focused on the "gay agenda." By the way, she insulted a powerful and affluent group that is motivated enough to mount a campaign against her. I'm one district over or I would consider running against her. It would be the easiest campaign this cycle.

Great thought, but you have zero chance at beating her. That district is too close to the Nasty Marines University (Nazarene). The better idea is to force all the christians who don't support her view to come out against her. I'll bet my new Harley that won't happen either.

The Dems better start working on someone to replace Andrew Rice in his district.

Dustbowl
03-11-2008, 10:55 AM
"The Communist party agenda is destroying this nation; it's just a fact,” Kern is heard saying on a YouTube audio segment. "I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.”

She forgot atheists and homeless people and welfare mothers driving a Mercedes. That is our biggest threat.

jbrown84
03-11-2008, 10:58 AM
There are over 2000 comments on that News 9 story, and many many of them are from all across the country.

Great job Sally. Sure, you are welcome to your opinion, but when you call a group of people worse than murderers, you are crossing the line and people are going to notice.

Here's the video in question:

tFxk7glmMbo

Midtowner
03-11-2008, 11:10 AM
What is her "actions"? Her opinions on a behavior? You can disagree with her, you can think she is an idiot, but to advocate removing free speach isn't the way to go.

She isn't being thrown in jail for saying what she said, nor is she being fined. If the will of the people dictates that she experience a career change, her "free speech" has consequences.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want to say sans consequences. Imagine what would have happened to the President if he had been taped in the wake of Katrina making pejorative references (along racial grounds) regarding the blacks left behind in New Orleans. Do you think his "free speach" might have had consequences?

I doubt that as closely divided as the house is, the Republicans would willingy give up a seat, even if it were found out that Ms. Kern was an active member in the KKK womens' auxiliary, which I'm sure she's not, nor has she ever been. I just mean to say that partisan politics will prevent any real consequences for Rep. Kern, at least until the next election cycle comes around. Then, expect her to even draw a Republican primary challenger.


If she said she thought all gays should be burned at the stake I could understand, but what she said was she felt that they were a threat to American values. If you insert "Communism" where "Gay" was, would you have a problem with what she said?

No, she said homosexuality was more of a threat than terrorism, or Islam.

-- terrorism, I can understand, but the religious bigotry towards Islam? That's as bad as the anti-gay remark. We're trying to make inroads in the Islamic world. Her words don't exactly help our religions live in harmony. What she said may indeed be worse than Justice Holmes' "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater" analogy.

Will
03-11-2008, 11:15 AM
Why am I supposed to care what New Jersey or New York or
Florida thinks about Oklahoma?

Because Oklahoma as a whole is trying to improve socially and econimically. We are trying to bring in new businesses and attract people to move here(or stay here) and vacation here. And whether you care or not what they think, others perception of oklahoma has a negative effect on people who are considering moving here or bringing their business here.

jbrown84
03-11-2008, 11:17 AM
Several weeks ago, and 8th grade boy walked into a computer lab and shot a fellow student in the head--because he was gay.

Mrs. Kern's comments fuel people to do things like that. She is a hate-mongerer. SHE'S the terrorist.

BDP
03-11-2008, 12:39 PM
Why am I supposed to care what New Jersey or New York or
Florida thinks about Oklahoma?

I guess if you agree with her, you shouldn't, but I think a lot of people don't like being represented in that manner. I think it's short sighted and ignorant for anyone to characterize a whole state based on one person's remarks, so what matters now is our reaction to it, really. As you can see there are at least as many people coming to her defense as condemning her words, which just reinforces the stereotype that we're an ignorant and bigoted community. This, in turn, as Will pointed out, does affect the decisions of people who decide where to invest their money and time. Then again, I supposed that people like her don't really care about that much.

mheaton76
03-11-2008, 01:30 PM
I was doing some more thinking on this based on the conversation threads I've read thus far. I think one of the things that we shouldn't lose sight of is that the fundamentalist/luddite perspective is not gaining strength in our state, even though the flair ups from Sally Kern and those like her, as well as the idiotic red herrings that get floated in the Legislature would suggest the contrary.

Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

Religious radicals who would like to declare a separate peace from it all and say "thanks but no thanks," won't have a say in the matter. We have no choice but to move forward - and movements that try to turn back the clock show little historical precedent of actually succeeding.

It does go to show, however, that the American idea - that of a secular, progressive National entity, never actually took over in all of America, ironically as that may seem. Think of the South from about reconstruction until around 1970 - and you get my idea.

I have hope this will work itself out, and those who feel they have much to fear from people like me who are secular, progressive, gay - and even those who just generally march to the beat of a different drummer - will find that they have nothing to fear from us at all.

I have to hope, anyway. Because the abandonment of this place to people like them is really hard for me stomach - however tempting the thought of fleeing from them is from time to time.


www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

Dustbowl
03-11-2008, 02:15 PM
I was doing some more thinking on this based on the conversation threads I've read thus far. I think one of the things that we shouldn't lose sight of is that the fundamentalist/luddite perspective is not gaining strength in our state, even though the flair ups from Sally Kern and those like her, as well as the idiotic red herrings that get floated in the Legislature would suggest the contrary.

Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

Religious radicals who would like to declare a separate peace from it all and say "thanks but no thanks," won't have a say in the matter. We have no choice but to move forward - and movements that try to turn back the clock show little historical precedent of actually succeeding.

It does go to show, however, that the American idea - that of a secular, progressive National entity, never actually took over in all of America, ironically as that may seem. Think of the South from about reconstruction until around 1970 - and you get my idea.

I have hope this will work itself out, and those who feel they have much to fear from people like me who are secular, progressive, gay - and even those who just generally march to the beat of a different drummer - will find that they have nothing to fear from us at all.

I have to hope, anyway. Because the abandonment of this place to people like them is really hard for me stomach - however tempting the thought of fleeing from them is from time to time.


www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

I REALLY hope you are correct about this. It's my greatest wish for our City/State. I'm heterosexual and atheist. I can't imagine the crap that gay people have to put up with. Great comments.

mheaton76
03-11-2008, 02:29 PM
Thanks, Dustbowl - it's mine as well. By standing up for secularism, and for progressive politics and policy, we stand in good company.




www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

jbrown84
03-11-2008, 03:37 PM
Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

I think you're right. Just look at the way Chesapeake is coming out against HB 1804, despite that being the love-child of powerful right wingers like Randy Terrill.



This is an image that I made in about 60 seconds. I want anyone that wants to use it to feel free. I have it as my profile pic on myspace and facebook. I just want to send a message to anyone that sees that Sally Kern is not the voice of all Oklahomans.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/martymcflyjb/sallykern.jpg

Karried
03-11-2008, 04:23 PM
I posted that in my Bulletin too.... thanks! JBrown.. pm me your url if you want to - I'll add you ...

Doug Loudenback
03-11-2008, 07:08 PM
I was doing some more thinking on this based on the conversation threads I've read thus far. I think one of the things that we shouldn't lose sight of is that the fundamentalist/luddite perspective is not gaining strength in our state, even though the flair ups from Sally Kern and those like her, as well as the idiotic red herrings that get floated in the Legislature would suggest the contrary.

Ultimately, anti-intellectualism and the abandonment of empiricism are incompatible with our ability to participate in the National, let alone global economy. The corporations that move here, and bring people here, will ultimately have none of it.

Religious radicals who would like to declare a separate peace from it all and say "thanks but no thanks," won't have a say in the matter. We have no choice but to move forward - and movements that try to turn back the clock show little historical precedent of actually succeeding.

It does go to show, however, that the American idea - that of a secular, progressive National entity, never actually took over in all of America, ironically as that may seem. Think of the South from about reconstruction until around 1970 - and you get my idea.

I have hope this will work itself out, and those who feel they have much to fear from people like me who are secular, progressive, gay - and even those who just generally march to the beat of a different drummer - will find that they have nothing to fear from us at all.

I have to hope, anyway. Because the abandonment of this place to people like them is really hard for me stomach - however tempting the thought of fleeing from them is from time to time.

www.unitedstatesofmichael.com
I REALLY hope you are correct about this. It's my greatest wish for our City/State. I'm heterosexual and atheist. I can't imagine the crap that gay people have to put up with. Great comments.
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Finally, I find that I have something in common with dustbowl! I'll rethink my thinking about your milk-bottle project! :dizzy:

Excellent post, Michael! While comments like this House Member certainly do cause embarrasment to our city and state, in the long term, perhaps other more responsible members of the Republican (or Democrat) party will come to want to not be in the same room with this lady as she speaks, or in the same grocery, movie theater, etc. I don't know if she has children, but even they might find embarrassment, shame, and sadness, in hearing such words from their mother who they would surely love ... maybe they wouldn't, but maybe they would.

Regardless, in the end, some good may come of it.

Dustbowl
03-11-2008, 07:19 PM
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Finally, I find that I have something in common with dustbowl! I'll rethink my thinking about your milk-bottle project! :dizzy:

Excellent post, Michael! While comments like this House Member certainly do cause embarrasment to our city and state, in the long term, perhaps other more responsible members of the Republican (or Democrat) party will come to want to not be in the same room with this lady as she speaks, or in the same grocery, movie theater, etc. I don't know if she has children, but even they might find embarrassment, shame, and sadness, in hearing such words from their mother who they would surely love ... maybe they wouldn't, but maybe they would.

Regardless, in the end, some good may come of it.

See, I'm winning them over one by one. Before long, you will be living in the Mini-Flatiron and leasing office space.:bright_id

onthestrip
03-11-2008, 07:44 PM
The worst part of this story is that she refuses to apologize. Has no one learned, in America, if you admit wrongdoing and apologize, everyone will think much better of you and usually forgive you.

mheaton76
03-11-2008, 07:58 PM
Cheers, Doug! I really believe the effort that we put into Oklahoma City and our State to is totally worth it. Sally Kern's style of politics obviously seeks to divide, but I don't think she will not have the last word - there are way to many decent people out there for that to happen.

Hey Dustbowl, sign me up too, JK.



www.unitedstatesofmichael.com

fromdust
03-11-2008, 09:07 PM
Someone needs to run against that f_wit. Her district has a lot of black, latino and working class. Looks like a great Dem pickup to me. Kern seems to represent what's left of the Repub Party today. Completely philosophically bankrupt. I'm sure the numerous citizens in her house district who are worrying about foreclosures, $4 gas and the coming recession are really focused on the "gay agenda." By the way, she insulted a powerful and affluent group that is motivated enough to mount a campaign against her. I'm one district over or I would consider running against her. It would be the easiest campaign this cycle.

"Completely philosophically bankrupt"? i agree, but are u implying the dems are better? if you are, wow! dont get me wrong,im not saying that repubs are great or anything i hate both. i think they are one in the same.

soonerguru
03-12-2008, 12:55 AM
fromdust,

Time will tell if you're right about the Dems. Perhaps they will join the Repubs in the dustbin. At least, currently, they don't favor overturning the Bill of Rights, reason enough for me and others to support them. Oh, and they're not Republicans.

Doug, small complaint: It's not the "Democrat Party." It's the Democratic Party. Could you be a member of the "Republic Party?"

Doug Loudenback
03-12-2008, 03:45 AM
fromdust,

Time will tell if you're right about the Dems. Perhaps they will join the Repubs in the dustbin. At least, currently, they don't favor overturning the Bill of Rights, reason enough for me and others to support them. Oh, and they're not Republicans.

Doug, small complaint: It's not the "Democrat Party." It's the Democratic Party. Could you be a member of the "Republic Party?"
Would that be the party of Lincoln that, as a child, I once thought existed? That's been so long ago that it's a distant memory now and hard to remember what it once might have been called. :wink: Anyway, point taken.

so1rfan
03-12-2008, 06:09 AM
If she said she thought all gays should be burned at the stake I could understand, but what she said was she felt that they were a threat to American values. If you insert "Communism" where "Gay" was, would you have a problem with what she said?

"The Communist party agenda is destroying this nation; it's just a fact,” Kern is heard saying on a YouTube audio segment. "I honestly think it's the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.”

What if you insert "African-American", "Hispanic", "Jewish",or "Asian" where "Gay" was? Would you have a problem with what she said?

okcpulse
03-12-2008, 06:35 AM
I wouldn't lose much sleep over this in the long term if I were you. She's a village idiot. Most here in Houston haven't heard anything about this yet, and those that did here about it believes she is a small time representative that obviously won't go far in her political career.

Doug Loudenback
03-12-2008, 08:16 AM
Here's the editorial in today's Oklahoman at Clipped: Lawmaker's stance not a surprise | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/article/3215087/1205283372) :


Clipped: Lawmaker's stance not a surprise
The Oklahoman Editorial

STATE Rep. Sally Kern's remarks about gays were callous and wrong, and have brought her the sort of attention few seek or relish. What they weren't is surprising, given her history in the Legislature.

Kern, R-Oklahoma City, said homosexuality is this country's greatest threat, "even more so than terrorists or Islam.” She said it's "just a fact” that "the homosexuality agenda is destroying this nation.” Her remarks to a small GOP group were recorded and sent to a national gay and lesbian organization that posted them on the Internet last week. By Monday afternoon, the clip had been played more than 300,000 times.

Kern has been bombarded with e-mails and phone messages, many of them hateful and ugly. But she's offered no apology, saying she was talking about gay activists who target conservative Republicans. (Those activists, it should be noted, often resort to similarly extreme and incendiary arguments, usually without recrimination.)

Most of Kern's headlines at the Capitol have come in the ideological arena. During her first year in the House, 2005, she pushed to have librarians restrict children's access to books with homosexual themes. The next year, she worked to have state funding pulled from libraries that didn't remove such books from the kids' section.

That same year, the former school teacher tried to wade into science class and protect teachers and students who wished to discuss theories other than evolution. This session, she's among the authors of a bill that would let students express their religious beliefs in homework and other assignments without threat of discrimination.

Kern would probably be better off focusing on issues that truly require the Legislature's attention, instead of engaging in ideological combat. But this clearly is her inclination, and so far it hasn't hurt her a bit politically — when she sought re-election two years ago, she ran unopposed.

jbrown84
03-12-2008, 08:19 AM
What if you insert "African-American", "Hispanic", "Jewish",or "Asian" where "Gay" was? Would you have a problem with what she said?

EXACTLY.

EVEN IF she was taken out of context and was saying that the "gay agenda" is worse than terrorism, that's still a dubious statement. At worst--according to her conspiracy theory--they are brainwashing 2 year olds to be gay in the schools (absolutely ridiculous BTW).

That's worse than someone coming into the school and blowing it up?????????????

HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW???

soonerguru
03-12-2008, 10:39 AM
I read somewhere that her own son is gay. Was this snark or is this for real? Anyone know? I have no idea. That might explain the depth of her hysteria and vitriol. I had a friend come out to his deeply religious southern Baptist mother and she wouldn't even talk to him for three years (God's love at work). Over time, and after a lengthy addiction to pharmaceuticals, she got over it.

Lord Helmet
03-12-2008, 11:22 AM
I just don't get people like this. I simply can't wrap my brain around why I should give a crap what someones sexual preference is, or why its my business at all. Treating someone as a lesser person because of sexual preference is similar to mindless racism imho.

We're all just people, people :)

solitude
03-12-2008, 08:57 PM
Wow, that Oklahoman editorial surprised me. They actually said Kern was wrong to say it. Times are changing at the hometown paper.

windowphobe
03-13-2008, 05:45 PM
I read somewhere that her own son is gay. Was this snark or is this for real? Anyone know? I have no idea.

Snark. It is not true. Somebody turned up, via search engine, someone with the same name who was, and jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.

venture
03-13-2008, 06:25 PM
I'm with Solitude, the Oklahoman editorial shocked me. However, their divorced partner (News 9) and Kelly Ogle especially, definitely seems happy to stress that "she has received a lot of support too."

soonerguru
03-13-2008, 09:49 PM
Kelly Ogle's synapses fire very slowly. I'll never forget his big two cents about those rinky-dink model airplane things that Iraq was going to use to destroy America. He definitely drinks all the Bush koolaid.

Bob&Frank&Ted&Bob&Alice
03-13-2008, 10:16 PM
Roflmbf Ao

jbrown84
03-14-2008, 08:24 AM
Snark. It is not true. Somebody turned up, via search engine, someone with the same name who was, and jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.

No, it is true. A friend of mine went to college with him.

windowphobe
03-14-2008, 06:08 PM
Show him this:

The McCarville Report Online: Kern's Son Puts The Lie To The Lie (http://wwwtmrcom.blogspot.com/2008/03/kerns-son-puts-lie-to-lie.html)

bkm645
03-14-2008, 10:37 PM
I am surprised that there have been no supporters of hers to post.
Well I for one do support her, she does not hate the gays, she simply does not approve of their actions.
The comment about the gay agenda being worse than terrorism is true because when you destroy the social factor that holds nations together, the family, you will destroy the nation. When there is no nation, then who is going to care about the terrorist?

okclee
03-15-2008, 09:31 AM
^^ I am speechless to your post. Unbelievable.

PapaJack
03-15-2008, 10:39 AM
Believe it. There are probably many people who agree with Kern (I PERSONALLY DO NOT) and they have an equal right to their beliefs as you do to any of yours. Perception is reality (Mick Cornett 2008). Kern’s beliefs are based on her perception of reality. The opinions expressed on this blog represent only the reality impressions of those who participate.

My question is, where are the comments from gays who have conservative values? They must as surely exist as the liberal gays noted by Kern. Are all gays liberals? I think not.

I do believe a decline in family values is harmful to our nation, but I also think the term “family” includes gays, singles, celebates, all of God’s children. I also expect my opinions to generate backlash comments, like Kern’s have.

bkm645
03-15-2008, 11:12 AM
^^ I am speechless to your post. Unbelievable.

Can you give me a nation that accepted such sin that has survived? Kern and I have the same agenda; to keep this country strong as long as we can. A country cannot survive with no moral rule. Just like what George Washington said "It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible." The Bible has been for centuries the moral rule that governed this nation and without a moral code what happens? Can we say that what Kevin Underwood did was wrong? With no moral code he did just what he perceived to be acceptable.

BDP
03-15-2008, 11:52 AM
The comment about the gay agenda being worse than terrorism is true because when you destroy the social factor that holds nations together, the family, you will destroy the nation.

1) The factor that holds the nation together is called the Constitution. And it is a document based on the idea that a limited form of government based on democracy is the best way to provide and protect the civil liberties of the citizens which it governs. The country is not held together by families, it is held together by an ideal of individual freedom. You are FREE to from a family, but you are not required to do so in any way and your rights as a citizen are not and should not be based on doing so.

2) The Gay "agenda" does not destroy families in any way. Divorce does. Intolerance towards the beliefs and lifestyles of family members can destroy the family. I do not have any gay people that I know of in my family, but I do know that if any one of them were gay, that fact alone would NOT in any way make them less family to me and I would love them just as much and support them in their life choices. THAT is what a family is.

The truth is that Sally Kern and her movement are the biggest threat to this country because they want to replace our liberal government with a rigid theocracy that bases people's rights on their adherence to a lifestyle dictated by personal mystical beliefs (of course, it is always about their mysticism and not someone else's) and use government assets to indoctrinate the citizens with their beliefs. That is not freedom. That is not America. And, if you really want to be honest here, that is the EXACT model for governance that religious extremist groups believe in, some of which of used terrorist acts to attack our culture,. In that sense, Sally Kern is closer in ideals to Islamic terrorists than any part of the so-called gay agenda is.

OU Adonis
03-15-2008, 11:57 AM
I am surprised that there have been no supporters of hers to post.
Well I for one do support her, she does not hate the gays, she simply does not approve of their actions.
The comment about the gay agenda being worse than terrorism is true because when you destroy the social factor that holds nations together, the family, you will destroy the nation. When there is no nation, then who is going to care about the terrorist?


This board is extremely left leaning BKM, they pretty much jump on any conservative view point here. You are just fighting an uphill battle.

oneforone
03-15-2008, 12:10 PM
I am not saying I support Sally Kern. In fact I think what you do in the bedroom and who your do it with is your business. The only time it is anyone else's or the government's business is when someone has been forced or their underage.

Anyway on to my point.....

For every one out there with bruised pride over this (or any Oklahoma image issue for that matter) needs to get over it. Do you think the people of Los Angeles, New York, or anywhere else in the US care what we thinkg of them?

NO

Why should we care? Part of being adult is learing to laugh at yourself and taking an occasional jab from strangers.

Maybe Mayor McCheese should look at bringing Tony Robbins to the Ford Center if the NBA does not come to town. Many of the people of OKC could use some therapy.

In the words of Jack Nicholson in Batman "This town needs an enema".

Losen up... take the criticism like a grain of salt.

Caboose
03-15-2008, 12:13 PM
1) The factor that holds the nation together is called the Constitution. And it is a document based on the idea that a limited form of government based on democracy is the best way to provide and protect the civil liberties of the citizens which it governs. The country is not held together by families, it is held together by an ideal of individual freedom. You are FREE to from a family, but you are not required to do so in any way and your rights as a citizen are not and should not be based on doing so.

2) The Gay "agenda" does not destroy families in any way. Divorce does. Intolerance towards the beliefs and lifestyles of family members can destroy the family. I do not have any gay people that I know of in my family, but I do know that if any one of them were gay, that fact alone would NOT in any way make them less family to me and I would love them just as much and support them in their life choices. THAT is what a family is.

The truth is that Sally Kern and her movement are the biggest threat to this country because they want to replace our liberal government with a rigid theocracy that bases people's rights on their adherence to a lifestyle dictated by personal mystical beliefs (of course, it is always about their mysticism and not someone else's) and use government assets to indoctrinate the citizens with their beliefs. That is not freedom. That is not America. And, if you really want to be honest here, that is the EXACT model for governance that religious extremist groups believe in, some of which of used terrorist acts to attack our culture,. In that sense, Sally Kern is closer in ideals to Islamic terrorists than any part of the so-called gay agenda is.


How is what you just said any less intolerant than what Kern said? Why is tolerance a one way street for the modern liberal? Why are conservatives, rednecks, white-trash, hillbillies, Midwesterners, Christians, etc fair game for satire, mockery, scapegoating, and all out hate speech? For the past 7 years we have heard on a daily basis that GW Bush is a terrorist, conservatives are fascists, Christians are worse than nazis, rednecks are sub-human genetic disasters, and that conservative christian rednecks are destorying the country. Why are Kern's comments unacceptable in contrast to the daily drum-beat of modern liberalism?

The only thing worse than intolerance is pretending to be tolerant when you clearly are not. To the modern liberal tolerance seems to mean "anything that is in line with our agenda is tolerated... anything else will be demonized and squashed as ignorance or hate-speech"

And for the record, I am neither a Christian nor a conservative. I also am not anti-gay by any means. I just find the general hypocrisy of the left to be as disgusting (if not more so) as Kern's statements.

OU Adonis
03-15-2008, 12:21 PM
Not really constructive.

bkm645
03-15-2008, 12:47 PM
The factor that holds the nation together is called the Constitution. And it is a document based on the idea that a limited form of government based on democracy is the best way to provide and protect the civil liberties of the citizens which it governs. The country is not held together by families, it is held together by an ideal of individual freedom. You are FREE to from a family, but you are not required to do so in any way and your rights as a citizen are not and should not be based on doing so.

Where does the Constitution say this is a democracy? Is that the same place that the phrase "seperation of church and state" is found? Take a look at Article 4 Section 4. Also Ben Franklin was asked this what kind of governement the Constitution formed, his answer was "A republic, if you can keep it."


2) The Gay "agenda" does not destroy families in any way. Divorce does. Intolerance towards the beliefs and lifestyles of family members can destroy the family. I do not have any gay people that I know of in my family, but I do know that if any one of them were gay, that fact alone would NOT in any way make them less family to me and I would love them just as much and support them in their life choices. THAT is what a family is.

When did men start giving birth?


The truth is that Sally Kern and her movement are the biggest threat to this country because they want to replace our liberal government with a rigid theocracy...

You said that Constitution was a limited government and now you are saying that the government is liberal. Which is right, a limited government or a liberal governemnt? You can't have both. Liberals want a large government, not a limited government.


And, if you really want to be honest here, that is the EXACT model for governance that religious extremist groups believe in, some of which of used terrorist acts to attack our culture,. In that sense, Sally Kern is closer in ideals to Islamic terrorists than any part of the so-called gay agenda is.

Yea you better watch Kern and I, we may just strap bombs to ourselves and kill everyone. Give me a break!


This board is extremely left leaning BKM, they pretty much jump on any conservative view point here. You are just fighting an uphill battle.

I know I am in the minority, I always am, but no battle is easy to win.

Karried
03-15-2008, 12:58 PM
Kern and I have the same agenda; to keep this country strong as long as we can.


Keep this Country strong? Is it strong?

I don't think so at all. I think it's a mess.

And I don't think the idea of a strong country equals a certain group of people convinced they have the right to judge/condemn others based on a book written 3500 years ago.

I'm not picking on you specifically... I just find it hard to stay silent about an issue like calling gay people terrorists, (especially from being an elected public official, standpoint).

Believe it or not, they don't fly planes into buildings.. they don't try to recruit your 2 year olds into a militant army and they certainly don't need any of us to worry about who they love or don't love.

It doesn't affect me or alter my life in any way and I don't see how it affects Sally Kern whatsoever.

I'm definitely not worried or threatened about our society 'drying up' ....Believe it or not, gay people can still have babies if they want to. And there are plenty of unwanted babies to be adopted, so this really is a non issue.

And if that bothers you, then take a look at all the wonderful examples of the parenting in this strong country we have today... dare I even mention the damage that divorce does to children or worse, countless examples of horrific child abuse and murder of children by heterosexual couples? This is what we should be worried about.

Seriously, what's the real danger here, people?

Have some tolerance. You don't have to embrace the lifestyle, but you don't have to make others who may be gay feel horrible about it either (like Sally).

I'll never forget watching a documentary on couples going on an alternative lifestyle cruise with their children... they get to a port that was being picketed by some ignorant nuts with signs that start yelling horrendous insults at these poor kids and their parents, telling them their parents were going to hell or something along those lines .. the kids were scared to death and started crying. It was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.

Moral compass?

How about, Treat others as you would want to be Treated. That's pretty simple. I don't need a book to tell me that I woudn't want to be murdered or ostracized, judged or gossiped about, so I try not do it to someone else.

I personally don't like to be labeled, I'm neither right nor left, athiest or agnostic..... I prefer to be thought of as someone who cares about people, the underdog usually, and that's about it.

I don't want to judge people, especially two consenting adults, based on who they fall in love with ... I'm just me.

Karried
03-15-2008, 01:02 PM
When did men start giving birth?

They couldn't handle it.

That's why we have women.

Woman are gay too. And gay men can still be parents without actually being in a sexual relationship with a woman. Artificial insemination anyone? Adoption?

OU Adonis
03-15-2008, 01:10 PM
They couldn't handle it.

That's why we have women.

Woman are gay too. And gay men can still be parents without actually being in a sexual relationship with a woman. Artificial insemination anyone? Adoption?

This thread is a microcosm on why America is in decline. Its a shame that I will have to live through its decline.

Karried
03-15-2008, 01:17 PM
You've been living through it since you were born.

It's always been there, people are just tired of hiding it and would rather be free and risk opening themselves up to judgement and criticism than hide any longer.

They want to live a life just like you and I.... and have some freedoms and rights, just like women, and African Americans, minorities and abused children.

How does it hurt you?

Another documentary I watched was about a gay couple adopting physically abused older children that no one wanted. You know, abused by their biological heterosexual moral parents.

This couple took them in and nurtured them and loved them and didn't try once to turn them gay... they ended up straight as a board, loved and happy. What a threat.

OU Adonis
03-15-2008, 01:28 PM
You know I wanted to stay out of this conversation because obviously no ones minds will change but you are putting forward your opinion so here is mine.

First off. Adoption or artificial pregnancy. Well thats great for individual couples.

But you know what? The behavior is abnormal. "I am born that way" is a cop out. Everyone makes decisions in their lives on how they act and make their own choices. I have ALWAYS had the choice on who I shared my bed with.

If you think its normal behavior then I ask you this. If the population went 100% gay, would it change society at all?

If the answer is yes, then obviously its not normal behavior.

I am really done with this thread.

Caboose
03-15-2008, 01:36 PM
But you know what? The behavior is abnormal. "I am born that way" is a cop out. Everyone makes decisions in their lives on how they act and make their own choices. I have ALWAYS had the choice on who I shared my bed with.




This is getting a bit off the main topic, but I find that type of thinking to be quite flawed.

Sure, you have the choice on who you share you bed with but you do not have the choice on who you want to choose your bed with.

You choose your actions, you do not choose your desires.

As a heterosexual male you no doubt have a preference as to what type of female you are attracted to. It may be blondes, brunettes, short chicks, buxom girls, BIG girls, or whatever. Whatever that preference is, it is not something you chose. It is something you have come to realize. It is something ingrained deep into your psyche.

In the same way, people don't dont choose to be gay, they realize they are gay.

OU Adonis
03-15-2008, 01:40 PM
In the same way, people don't dont choose to be gay, they realize they are gay.

You can say the same about necrophilliacs. They aren't hurting anyone. We still don't think its normal behavior though.

I am really out of this thread though now :)