View Full Version : Vote already showing benefits: OKC to bid for Women's Final 4



Pete
03-06-2008, 02:15 PM
Thu March 6, 2008
OKC wants to go after Women's Final Four

By Jenni Carlson
Staff Writer

Tim Brassfield has revised his wish list.

The Oklahoma City All Sports Association executive director has long believed he could go after just about any sporting event. The Big 12 basketball tournaments and NCAA basketball regionals are evidence of that.

But with Tuesday's passage of the Ford Center renovation tax, Brassfield is set to seek even bigger jewels for Oklahoma City.

"Women's Final Four would be at the top of our list," he said. "I just believe that event would fit our city perfectly."

Oklahoma City has become a wildly successful host for the Women's College World Series. Last spring, the weeklong softball tournament drew 62,463 fans, shattering the previous record by more than 16,000.

And as Brassfield is quick to point out, no Oklahoma team made the field.

Could the Women's Final Four be as successful as the Women's College World Series?

The next available Women's Final Four would be in 2012. Tampa hosts this year followed by St. Louis in 2010 and Indianapolis in 2011.

The Women's Final Four isn't the only event that Brassfield believes could come to Oklahoma City because of the Ford Center renovations.

The NCAA wrestling championships came to the Ford Center in 2006 after a 14-year absence. Brassfield would like to see Oklahoma City become a regular stop with the tournament coming to town every three or four years.

Likewise for the Big 12 basketball tournaments, which return again next year.

Another event high on Brassfield's wish list is the Women's Frozen Four. The All Sports Association bid on the NCAA women's ice hockey championship a few years ago but failed to receive the March event.

"It's tough to get them to come west," Brassfield said, adding that it wouldn't be unprecedented as Denver and Anaheim, Calif., have hosted the Women's Frozen Four. "But sometimes with these events, it's good to get in line. We'll (bid) again when that comes open."

Brassfield believes Oklahoma City has never been in better position to land such sporting events than after voters passed the Ford Center renovation tax.

"What it does is it levels the playing field," he said. "We always had the organization and the city buy-in ... to go after anything. But it puts me on a level playing field with other arenas in the region. I will not be fighting with a short stick."

While Brassfield also has designs on a Women's All-College — a women's basketball version of the All-College Classic the day before the men's event — the top of his wish list remains the Women's Final Four.

Oklahoma City will have something of an audition, too. Later this month, then again next spring, it will host an NCAA women's basketball regional. This year will be a regional final with the winner advancing to the Women's Final Four. Next year will be first- and second-round games.

Advance sales for this year's regional passed the 5,000-ticket market Thursday.

A year ago, Dallas sold 657 tickets before its women's basketball regional began.

If one of the state schools is placed in the Oklahoma City regional, ticket sales could skyrocket. So might Oklahoma City's hopes for a Women's Final Four.

"That's why these are so important to us that these do well," Brassfield said of the women's regionals. "If we can continue rotating an event through here, then every March and April we have a huge event for our city."

jbrown84
03-06-2008, 03:01 PM
I think we could definitely get the Women's Final Four. That would be great.

betts
03-06-2008, 03:10 PM
WOW! If that happens, that's a real coup, and should show even the doubters that the arena upgrade was worth doing.

BDP
03-06-2008, 06:36 PM
I'd like to see us put our hat in the ring for the Men's basketball regional as well. I'd think those things would sell out anywhere and the facility should be able to handle it after the upgrades. I just don't know what other factors we'd need to improve upon first (hotels, transportation... I wonder if our inaccesasibilty by non-stop air would keep us out of consideration). Anyone know what the smallest market to host a regional since the tournament was expanded is? They're in Houston, Phoenix, Detroit and Charlotte this year.

jbrown84
03-07-2008, 08:21 AM
I wouldn't think Charlotte would be a whole lot better than us on non-stop flights.

metro
03-07-2008, 08:39 AM
I'm still waiting for David Glover to come out and oppose this and tell us how much money we're really losing in electricity bills for the Ford Center over how much profit we'll make in sales taxes.

BDP
03-08-2008, 08:49 AM
I wouldn't think Charlotte would be a whole lot better than us on non-stop flights.

Looks like US Air gives them a lot of options:

STI: ERsys - Charlotte/Douglas Intl Airport (Non-Stop Flights) (http://www.ersys.com/usa/airport/clt.htm)

Here's ours:

http://www.flyokc.com/releases/Nonstop%20February%201.pdf

venture
03-08-2008, 09:03 AM
I wouldn't think Charlotte would be a whole lot better than us on non-stop flights.

Considering it is US Airways' largest hub, probably. ;)

solitude
03-08-2008, 12:07 PM
I'm still waiting for David Glover to come out and oppose this and tell us how much money we're really losing in electricity bills for the Ford Center over how much profit we'll make in sales taxes.

Isn't that over?

On the topic, I think the transportation problem is probably the number one obstacle.

JBrown: Look at these statistics:

Will Rogers World Airport:
Aircraft operations: avg 327/day 31% commercial28% air taxi27% military13% transient general aviation

Charlotte/Douglas International Airport
Aircraft operations: avg 1421/day 47% commercial45% air taxi7% transient general aviation

No comparision.

OUman
03-08-2008, 12:27 PM
Isn't that over?

On the topic, I think the transportation problem is probably the number one obstacle.

JBrown: Look at these statistics:

Will Rogers World Airport:
Aircraft operations: avg 327/day31% commercial28% air taxi27% military13% transient general aviation

Charlotte/Douglas International Airport
Aircraft operations: avg 1421/day47% commercial45% air taxi7% transient general aviation

No comparision.

Btw, to add to the above, OKC has a total of around 92 daily departures max, CLT has more than 600 daily. Not to mention daily nonstop international service to Canadian, Caribbean and some Euro cities. Sorry for continuing the off-topic tangent, we can go back on topic though.

And uh, OKC doesn't have any more military operations, I believe that's outdated.

solitude
03-08-2008, 01:11 PM
Btw, to add to the above, OKC has a total of around 92 daily departures max, CLT has more than 600 daily. Not to mention daily nonstop international service to Canadian, Caribbean and some Euro cities. Sorry for continuing the off-topic tangent, we can go back on topic though.

And uh, OKC doesn't have any more military operations, I believe that's outdated.

Yes, it very well might be. I got those from AirNav (http://www.airnav.com).com ... Your statistics are even more telling. You would know better than I where to get good accurate stats. I knew there was no comparision though. I'm glad we have you and venture to keep us straight on all this!

Because of this problem, I see it as a deal-killer for the Women's Final Four and/or any Final Four regional.

Bob&Frank&Ted&Bob&Alice
03-08-2008, 04:53 PM
Do you have any graphs for those statistics?

OU Adonis
03-08-2008, 05:16 PM
We need to be a hub for someone.

metro
03-08-2008, 05:27 PM
yeah, charlotte is a major banking hub, they have many financial people flying in and out daily

PapaJack
03-08-2008, 05:30 PM
Why is transportation a deal killer? The Masters in Augusta draws more spectators/press over a similar number of days than the Womens' Final Four. The closest "hub" is Atlanta, a two hour drive to Augusta. OKC is about the same distance, time wise as DFW, plus we have Wichita and Tulsa airports. If my thinking is wrong, please explain.

solitude
03-08-2008, 05:36 PM
Why is transportation a deal killer? The Masters in Augusta draws more spectators/press over a similar number of days than the Womens' Final Four. The closest "hub" is Atlanta, a two hour drive to Augusta. OKC is about the same distance, time wise as DFW, plus we have Wichita and Tulsa airports. If my thinking is wrong, please explain.

Apples and oranges, really. There's only one Augusta and just a few "premier" courses in the USA. There are arenas with what's needed for a regional or a Final Four in just about every large city.

OUman
03-08-2008, 08:34 PM
Yes, it very well might be. I got those from AirNav (http://www.airnav.com).com ... Your statistics are even more telling. You would know better than I where to get good accurate stats. I knew there was no comparision though. I'm glad we have you and venture to keep us straight on all this!

Because of this problem, I see it as a deal-killer for the Women's Final Four and/or any Final Four regional.

Doh, small correction, OKC still has military ops, I'm guessing though only training flights and such. I was only thinking of the ANG unit that moved out recently.

But no reason that Oklahoma City couldn't host the Final Four, it has been hosted in non-hub cities before.

solitude
03-08-2008, 08:59 PM
Since 1990 the "Final Four" has been held at the following venues:

1990 - Denver
1991 - Indianapolis
1992 - Minneapolis
1993 - New Orleans
1994 - Charlotte
1995 - Seattle
1996 - East Rutherford, NJ (NYC Metro)
1997 - Indianapolis
1998 - San Antonio
1999 - St. Petersburg (Tampa)
2000 - Indianapolis
2001 - Minneapolis
2002 - Atlanta
2003 - New Orleans
2004 - San Antonio
2005 - St. Louis
2006 - Indianapolis
2007 - Atlanta
2008 - San Antonio (scheduled)
2009 - Detroit (scheduled)
2010 - Indianapolis (scheduled)
2011 - Houston (scheduled)

All direct flight cities from most anywhere in the United States.

Can you imagine the outcry at having to go through Dallas or Denver or St. Louis to get to Oklahoma City? Maybe someday, but all the cities on the list above are out of our league. None of them are trying to become an elite city - they already are. And if anyone wants to compare us to Indianapolis (uh, no...), remember Indianapolis is considered the capital of college basketball.

betts
03-08-2008, 09:05 PM
Actually, what I notice is that with the exception of Tampa and East Rutherford, all those cities have NBA teams. I've never tried to fly to Indianapolis, but are they a hub? Do they have that many more direct flights than we do? How about San Antonio? I don't consider it the easiet place in the world to get to.

solitude
03-08-2008, 09:17 PM
Actually, what I notice is that with the exception of Tampa and East Rutherford, all those cities have NBA teams. I've never tried to fly to Indianapolis, but are they a hub? Do they have that many more direct flights than we do? How about San Antonio? I don't consider it the easiet place in the world to get to.

Indianapolis is a sports mecca. They handle traffic every year for the U.S. Grand Prix, Allstate 400 and the Indianapolis 500. I just read this about Indianapolis: "The attendance at both the Indianapolis 500 and the Allstate 400 makes them the two largest single day sporting events in the world, with well over 250,000 fans in attendance at each."

San Antonio - hard to get to? It's the 7th largest city in the United States. It has 360 daily commercial airline departures, compared with Oklahoma City's 91.

Oh, I just found that Indianapolis has 180 daily commercial airline departures.

betts
03-08-2008, 09:29 PM
Ah well, if we don't dream big, nothing will ever happen. I say, "Go for it" and the worst thing that can happen is that we're told "No". We're probably shooting for something like 2020 anyway. I bet they're booked that far into the future.

Kerry
03-08-2008, 09:31 PM
I think what Betts meant is that San Antonio is hard to get to from OKC. There in lies the problem.

solitude
03-08-2008, 09:39 PM
I think what Betts meant is that San Antonio is hard to get to from OKC. There in lies the problem.

You are absolutely right.

venture
03-08-2008, 10:43 PM
Commercial Aviation geeks are in full swing here now apparenlty. ;)

1990 - Denver ... Hub: United, Continental (now gone)
1991 - Indianapolis ... Hub: USAir (now gone)
1992 - Minneapolis ... Hub: Northwest
1993 - New Orleans ... Hub: None
1994 - Charlotte ... Hub: USAir
1995 - Seattle ... Hub: Alaska
1996 - East Rutherford, NJ (NYC Metro) ... Hub: Eh, doesn't matter ;)
1997 - Indianapolis ... Hub: USAir's gone, somewhat from ATA
1998 - San Antonio ... Hub: none
1999 - St. Petersburg (Tampa) ... Hub: none
2000 - Indianapolis ... Hub: ATA somewhat, now gone
2001 - Minneapolis ... Hub: Northwest
2002 - Atlanta ... Hub: Delta, AirTran
2003 - New Orleans ... Hub: None
2004 - San Antonio ... Hub: None
2005 - St. Louis ... Hub: American (former TWA)
2006 - Indianapolis ... Hub: None
2007 - Atlanta ... Hub: Delta, AirTran
2008 - San Antonio (scheduled) ... Hub: none
2009 - Detroit (scheduled) ... Hub: Northwest
2010 - Indianapolis (scheduled) ... Hub: None
2011 - Houston (scheduled) ... Hub: Continental

Transportation is definitely easier to all those cities above OKC, however one thing to keep in mind. The earilier rounds are going to have teams from more parts of the country, so idealy that would be the time to have more flights.

Really air traffic here is just about right for what is needed. About the only thing that we could really use is USAir out to Philly and CLT.

OUman
03-09-2008, 10:22 AM
^Btw, it's US Airways now, not US Air. Thought you'd know THAT by now. Just messing with you lol. ;)

Also, to clarify, IND is not a hub for any airline, BUT (and this makes a big difference) it has a Northwest/Northwest Airlink focus operation (both combined have over 50 daily departures from IND to about 22 cities, with more coming.

What I would like to see from Oklahoma City though is nonstops to Seattle/Tacoma, and at least one daily international nonstop (though unfeasible for now just because of the market conditions).

As ar as Philadelphia and Charolotte are concerned, I see Philadelphia a greater possibility than Charlotte because it's US/USX's transatlantic gateway.

dalelakin
03-09-2008, 11:46 AM
Also take into consideration Indianapolis has the NCAA HQ.

The numbers for the races are low though since IMS doesn't release official attendance numbers. Those numbers are based off of estimates and the total number of available seats at the track. It is closer to 400k when the infield and participants and crew are factored in.

jbrown84
03-10-2008, 09:01 AM
I think by the time we would get this, we would have gained a lot more non-stops. We have gained a lot in just the last 3 or 4 years.

I don't know about an international flight, however. It would be impractical to have a customs/immigration area for just one or 2 flights a day.

Kerry
03-10-2008, 09:08 AM
On the other hand - The Women's College World Series seems to be doing OK and the baseball World Series is in Omaha.

jbrown84
03-10-2008, 10:01 AM
Good point, Kerry.

BDP
03-10-2008, 02:24 PM
Since 1990 the "Final Four" has been held at the following venues:

I think the Final four is held in stadiums, not arenas, right? So, I don't think being a national hub would even help us there.

I was talking just the regionals, aka Sweet 16 and Elite 8. I've been trying to find something that lists past host sites for the regionals, but I haven't found anything, yet.



Why is transportation a deal killer?

I don't know if it's a deal killer, but given the fact that most cities who will be competing for this event have better transportation options, it certainly doesn't help our chances. Access is always a factor in major events and it would be no different here.



The Masters in Augusta draws more spectators/press over a similar number of days than the Womens' Final Four. The closest "hub" is Atlanta, a two hour drive to Augusta. OKC is about the same distance, time wise as DFW, plus we have Wichita and Tulsa airports.

I don't know the history of Augusta or the Masters, but it is fundamentally different, because it doesn't move. No one is competing for that event. There is no panel that sits around and weighs the merits of several potential locations for that event. Also, in golf, the differences in facility (the course) directly affects the competition. It basketball, the actual playing surface is much more uniform from location to location. So, you can build the best golf course in the world in North Dakota and it will get consideration despite the lack of access. You build the best basketball arena in North Dakota, and I still think it would have a hard time getting the first two rounds, let alone the regionals.

In the end, this is all about competing with other markets. Transportation will always be an issue and until we have better access, we have to find other strengths to be considered. At this point, and after the renovations, I think OKC may be good enough for a regional in terms of facility. So, then the commitees who makes these decisions are going to look at travel and lodging. In most cases it will probably be a deal killer against any city with better access, all other things being equal.

jbrown84
03-10-2008, 04:23 PM
The fact that we have such great interstate access and a central location, however, could boost our status in some ways over coastal cites.

BDP
03-10-2008, 07:33 PM
And for a regional, that may be enough, when supplemented with the flights we do have... I don't know. It just seemed like a natural next step to me, but I am not very knowledgable on what criteria sites have been selected in the past.

BDP
03-10-2008, 07:42 PM
Here's the regional hosts for the last five years:

2007:
San Antonio, Texas
San José, California
East Rutherford, New Jersey
St. Louis, Missouri

2006:
Atlanta, Georgia
Oakland, California
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Washington, D.C.

2005:
Austin
Syracuse
Albuquerque
Chicago

2004:
East Rutherford, New Jersey
St. Louis, Missouri
Atlanta, Georgia
Phoenix, Arizona

2003:
Albany, New York
Minneapolis, Minnesota
San Antonio, Texas
Anaheim, California

I don't know. If Albuquerque can get one, surely we can, right?

jbrown84
03-10-2008, 07:53 PM
Albuquerque, Syracuse, Albany, Austin...

I think we should be in the running for sure.