And he's still fibbing about the team staying here if we don't pass the tax, despite the fact that no one has ever corroborated his opinion. I guess he thinks no one reads the Gazette, where Clay has come out personally and said the team is not coming if we don't pass the tax.

Opponents of a sales tax to raise $121 million for improvements to the Ford Center and construction of an NBA practice facility pushed the argument Friday that the cost is too high.

Voters will decide Tuesday whether to approve the one-cent sales tax.

At a news conference Friday, Oklahoma City area resident David Glover handed out copies of an e-mail from Oklahoma City special projects manager Tom Anderson informing him that the proposal aimed at luring the NBA's Seattle SuperSonics would cost the average resident $10 per month or $150 per year.

Glover said he would support the relocation of an NBA team to Oklahoma City, but this price is too much to pay.

"If I thought it would be just a penny or just a couple of pennies, I'd be for it," said Glover, who lives in the small suburb of The Village but pays most of his sales tax in the city that surrounds it.
Mayor Mick Cornett has said he doesn't believe breaking down the cost per citizen is an accurate way to approach the issue, since different people and businesses spend different amounts in the city.

"It's real easy to do the math. For people to say the average is X amount, people can do that in their head. They know every time they buy something, it's 1/100th of what they pay," Cornett said earlier this week. "I don't think an average does much good because the percentage that some people spend in Oklahoma City is different."

Glover also challenged the notion that the SuperSonics, owned by a group of Oklahoma City businessmen led by Clay Bennett, would stop seeking relocation to the city if voters reject the proposal at the polls Tuesday.

"You will never hear anybody say, 'If the citizens don't make this change, we won't come.' The reason why is because I believe these people have civic pride, and that these people want this team in Oklahoma City," Glover said. "The only thing is if they don't come, we'll all know what it's really about and that it's about the money."

Former state Rep. Wanda Jo Peltier told reporters at the news conference that she thinks the money could be spent better to fight hunger in the city.

Clay Bennett doesn't live in Oklahoma City, either.

I do and I'm voting YES.

Glover and Hunt both appear to be nothing but attention whores.

Clay Bennett has said a lot less on this issue than David Glover. And it's Oklahoma City that would have the team, not the Village. At least Clay Bennett is not publishing inaccuracies, or deliberate misrepresentations in the local news. Why are the "no" voters all fired up about Mick Cornett saying "taxes would not increase", when the opposing side is actually misrepresenting the truth as much if not more than him? If you're not voting yes because you don't trust Mick Cornett, then don't vote no because you can't trust your opposition leaders either. Don't vote, I guess.

Clay Bennett doesn't live in Oklahoma City, either.

Oh, and where does he live? Looks like an OKC address to me although awefully close to Nichols Hills, it is still an OKC address:

Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R169576885)

Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R169575270)

Clay Bennett also has spent MILLIONS for OKC and will spend $400 MILLION PLUS to get an NBA team here too. He and his family also partially own a multi-billion dollar company located in OKC proper that is one of OKC's largest employers. While I don't like Gaylord/Bennett's paper, you can't say David Glover has done more for OKC than Bennett.

Oh, and where does he live?
Nichols Hills. Technically, not OKC. He won't even get to vote.

Nope. Both of those addresses are definitely in Nichols Hills. (Dorchester's west end does eventually get into Oklahoma City, but not until the 2500 block or so; the 1600s are east of Pennsylvania.)

The proffered math does not impress: $10 a month does not equal $150 a year. And why the hell isn't Glover shopping at the Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market? It's actually in the Village.

Former state Rep. Wanda Jo Peltier told reporters at the news conference that she thinks the money could be spent better to fight hunger in the city.

Extremely lame argument that can be used against any freakin tax measure

Vote come up for mass transit...Should be used to fight hunger

Bonds for schools, street or highway repairs?...Not until hunger has been eradicated

MAPS III....Anyone still hungry out there?

That lady drives me crazy

Ha, ha, ha. David Glover can't even vote in this. Really, he shouldn't even be allowed to have talking time at a council meeting, since he's not a citizen of Oklahoma City.

As for Bennett not living in OKC.....he hasn't been pressing the vote one way or the other, although I'm sure he hopes it passes.

Ha, ha, ha. David Glover can't even vote in this. Really, he shouldn't even be allowed to have talking time at a council meeting, since he's not a citizen of Oklahoma City.

As for Bennett not living in OKC.....he hasn't been pressing the vote one way or the other, although I'm sure he hopes it passes.

You're kidding, right? Clay Bennett is not a citizen of Oklahoma City, does that mean he shouldn't speak at official city functions?

Bennett hasn't been pressing the vote one way or the other? His family newspaper has been a daily flyer in support of the proposal.

While I am voting "Yes," I am so tired of people here thinking those who oppose this are awful people who hate Oklahoma City that it's made me sad for OKCTalk as a community.

You're not getting my point. David Glover made this speech towards the end of the meeting, when they allow citizens to voice their opinions. That's just it though, he isn't a citizen of Oklahoma City.

Clay Bennet is different, only in the fact that the business he owns is located within Oklahoma City. So, I don't think he should be allowed to speak in front of the council as a citizen, but he should be able to speak as a business owner.

David Glover's occupation is hang gliding. What a great corporate citizen.

Flying Humans, LLC. (http://www.davidglover.com)

Here's his email: davidhglover@gmail.com

David Glover's occupation is hang gliding. What a great corporate citizen.


It's a job, isn't it? Good grief.

You're not getting my point. David Glover made this speech towards the end of the meeting, when they allow citizens to voice their opinions. That's just it though, he isn't a citizen of Oklahoma City.

Clay Bennet is different, only in the fact that the business he owns is located within Oklahoma City. So, I don't think he should be allowed to speak in front of the council as a citizen, but he should be able to speak as a business owner.Borat was allowed to speak. Of course it was just a Traffic Commission meeting. Nevertheless. There has been a precedent established.

David Glover's occupation is hang gliding. What a great corporate citizen.

Flying Humans, LLC. (http://www.davidglover.com)

Here's his email: davidhglover@gmail.com

This is exactly what I'm talking about. How incredibly rude. It's things like hang-gliding that add an urban, hip vibe to a city like ours. What's with the elitism? He is a business owner! What about somebody who pays people millions of dollars to dribble a ball up and down a court? Who's crazier?

Some businesses generate revenues and create jobs, and thus benefit the local economy. Glover's isn't one of them.

How do you know that?

Glover's business is a self-serving hobby and does very little for our local economy.

The NBA just isn't just about people dribbling a ball. There are many different jobs within an NBA organization. And the impact the games have on the local economy is huge: hotel/motel nights, money spent at restaurants downtown, retail purchases downtown, etc. Also, if you want to look specifically at the NBA millionaires, someone has to do their maid service, lawn service, car service, etc.

Also, if you're talking about individual impact on the economy. Sandridge, Dorchester Capital, and Chesapeake are HUGE employers in the city. Maybe we should thank those millionaires for all of the jobs they offer to local area residents.

Some businesses generate revenues and create jobs, and thus benefit the local economy. Glover's isn't one of them.

And everybody does what he/she has a passion for. You're a doctor. Some people paint and had names like "Vincent Van Gogh." Some write and have names like "Toni Morrision." Some simply make arts and crafts. Others don't do their own thing at all, but work 40 hours a week turning the same screw or pushing the same buttons day in and day out. Are they less of a person than Clay Bennett and (apparently) yourself?

What David Glover does for a living has absolutely nothing to do with this vote. If he chooses to be an activist on an issue he feels passionately about - more power to him! Too few people get involved in local government. Or, is the problem really that he is working for something in which the two of you disagree?

By the way, with your attitude toward economics, you need to go back to the Republican Party. It's a much better fit for you.

Sandridge, Dorchester Capital, and Chesapeake are HUGE employers in the city. Maybe we should thank those millionaires for all of the jobs they offer to local area residents.

By the way, Sandridge and CHK are public companies. It's not the CEOs paying out for jobs, it's the capital provided by stockholders. I own CHK stock and proud of it, but I also know that I AM HELPING provide those jobs.

By the way, Sandridge and CHK are public companies. It's not the CEOs paying out for jobs, it's the capital provided by stockholders. I own CHK stock and proud of it, but I also know that I AM HELPING provide those jobs.

The CEO controls the overall corporate structure, under approval of the stockholders of course. Whether the corporation sinks or swims ultimately falls on the CEO's shoulders.

CHK may be a public corp now, but Ward and McClendon started it and have built it into what it is today.

And everybody does what he/she has a passion for. You're a doctor. Some people paint and had names like "Vincent Van Gogh." Some write and have names like "Toni Morrision." Some simply make arts and crafts. Others don't do their own thing at all, but work 40 hours a week turning the same screw or pushing the same buttons day in and day out. Are they less of a person than Clay Bennett and (apparently) yourself?

I actually agree with you completely. BUT, at the same time, people like Ward and McClendon have an economic impact far greater than I ever will. I'd say they're far better corporate citizens than I ever will be.


What David Glover does for a living has absolutely nothing to do with this vote. If he chooses to be an activist on an issue he feels passionately about - more power to him! Too few people get involved in local government. Or, is the problem really that he is working for something in which the two of you disagree?

I can agree with you on that.


By the way, with your attitude toward economics, you need to go back to the Republican Party. It's a much better fit for you.

I've never been a Republican. Always been very liberal. I'm in favor of higher taxes and govt. handouts for various programs, that benefit members from all walks of life. I favor public schools, socialized healthcare, socialized programs like welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid. I'm against the war in Iraq. I'm for higher taxes on the wealthy, and taxcuts for the middle class and poor. I think that all fits pretty much with the Democratic Party.

Most true "conservative" Republicans would be against this tax increase, and all tax increases.

The CEO controls the overall corporate structure, under approval of the stockholders of course. Whether the corporation sinks or swims ultimately falls on the CEO's shoulders.

CHK may be a public corp now, but Ward and McClendon started it and have built it into what it is today.

Thanks for the info, Patrick. I did not know that. Christ almighty.

Thanks for the info, Patrick. I did not know that. Christ almighty.

:bow:

:bow:

Whatever that means.

You said you agreed with me on all that I wrote about diverse occupations and how we're all a part of the quilt, the fabric of our city, state and nation. Yet you made fun of Glover's occupation. Frankly, that made me mad. The fact he has turned a hobby into a profession is something I envy. I wish we all could be so lucky.

Some of you are making it harder for me to pinch my nose and vote "yes." I just cannot believe the attitude so many of you have for anybody who dares oppose this thing. It is something else.

Hopefully, we'll have a "Yes" win on March 4th. But more importantly, Senator Barack Obama has a chance to win Ohio and Texas that day and pretty much put away the Democratic nomination for President. To me, that's the most important election of the day.

Sorry for saying you should go "back" to the Republican Party. I could have sworn I read where you were once a Republican. I was obviously mistaken and I apologize. Though, many of your posts here - especially concerning this vote - show an elitism that fits in much better with the GOP. Standing up for corporations and deriding small business is not a typically "liberal Democratic" position.

I live in Oklahoma City. Im 37, Im a man and I vote come talk to me (said in yelling Mike Gundy voice if you missed the reference.)

Heres this

Channel 4 is owned by Oak Hill Capitol Partners, a Ft Worth group
Channel 5 is owned by Hearst Argyle, a NYC group
Channels 25 & 34 owned by Sinclair out of Maryland
Channel 43 is Oak Hill out of Texas as well
The Sports animal and JOX radio are Citadel out of Nevada
KTOK is Clear Channel out of San Antonio

KSBI 52 interests were recently purchased by Chesapeake guys
The Daily Oklahoman's Mr Gaylord, well we know his son in law is Bennett

Only channel 9 is locally owned.

Lay off David.

Hopefully, we'll have a "Yes" win on March 4th. But more importantly, Senator Barack Obama has a chance to win Ohio and Texas that day and pretty much put away the Democratic nomination for President. To me, that's the most important election of the day.

Agreed! Go Obama!


Sorry for saying you should go "back" to the Republican Party. I could have sworn I read where you were once a Republican. I was obviously mistaken and I apologize. Though, many of your posts here - especially concerning this vote - show an elitism that fits in much better with the GOP. Standing up for corporations and deriding small business is not a typically "liberal Democratic" position.

Sometimes it's hard to actually know where a person really stands on a message board. But, those that know me well here, know I'm pretty liberal (except for religious issues), and have always been a huge Democrat. I can't say I've ever voted for a Republican....ever. Oh, I voted for Mick for mayor twice, but they don't vote by party in city elections. But, if you read my comments in the Politics section, it's pretty obvious I'm a Democrat. I've been one of the most vocal supporters of Barack Obama. I support him for many reasons, but mainly because he has a solution for the war in Iraq.

I'm sorry if I've appeared to show elitism. That's never been my intent. I'm far from perfect or right on issues, and I appreciate when people set me straight on issues. I've never meant to come across that way.

I was standing up for McClendon and Ward for what they've accomplished personally, but I'm very anti-big corporation. I was raised in a very strong union household, and would never stray from that. I saw the good that unions do in fighting for the little guy against a big corporation. If it weren't for the union, my father would've never gotten the benefits he did, while he was working.

I saw what big corporations do when my wife was let go from ONG without warning, because they decided that they weren't going to let her off for her wedding! How cruel is that? :) Most big corporations don't care about their employees...all they care about is the work they can get out of them. And when they're not producing anymore, they simply drop them at the drop of a hat without warning. Just look at what Dell did recently. I'm for Big Government, and for slapping tax hikes on these companies that lay off American workers and outsource jobs. I'm for putting an end, once and for all, to Big Oil, which has experienced great times and profits thanks to our VP, the king of big oil, and his side kick, Bush.

Anyways, back to topic, I do respect David Glover for the job he does. But, I will admit that there are some of us out there with jobs that just don't benefit the local job market/economy much.....mine included.

As for my job, I'm a big fan of socialized medicine, so don't be surprised if you see me working for the VA or for OUHSC in a few years. It doesn't pay as much as private practice, but it's much needed. And money isn't that important to me.

I live in Oklahoma City. Im 37, Im a man and I vote come talk to me (said in yelling Mike Gundy voice if you missed the reference.)

Heres this

Channel 4 is owned by Oak Hill Capitol Partners, a Ft Worth group
Channel 5 is owned by Hearst Argyle, a NYC group
Channels 25 & 34 owned by Sinclair out of Maryland
Channel 43 is Oak Hill out of Texas as well
The Sports animal and JOX radio are Citadel out of Nevada
KTOK is Clear Channel out of San Antonio

KSBI 52 interests were recently purchased by Chesapeake guys
The Daily Oklahoman's Mr Gaylord, well we know his son in law is Bennett

Only channel 9 is locally owned.

Lay off David.
You're thinking of David Griffin, owner of Griffin Communications, which owns Channel 9 in OKC and Channel 6 in Tulsa.

We're talking about David Glover here, a citizen of The Village, local hang gliding enthusiast, opponent of the March 4th vote.

cute.

I was saying that all these outlets are selling this thing, and they have no interest in Oklahoma City...just their companies that are located outside of Oklahoma City.

I think instead of the reimbursement wording on the ballott, there should be something about a subsidy that will help locally owned media get the broadcast rights to the games, rather than these myopic corporate interests like Nevada's Citadel, Texas's Clear Channel, Texas's KFOR and KAUT, Maryland's 25 and 34 etc...

Also I think David Glover has more an interest in okc than the above what with his him living literally feet from okc proper, and his mother, father, and brother living in okc proper.

hello?

Ed Gaylord is dead, by the way. If anyone were capable of reaching out from beyond the grave to pull strings around here, it would be him, but I don't think that's the case.

His daughter, Christy Gaylord Everest, is current CEO of the Oklahoman (and Bennett's sister in law).

Whatever that means.
You said you agreed with me on all that I wrote about diverse occupations and how we're all a part of the quilt, the fabric of our city, state and nation. Yet you made fun of Glover's occupation. Frankly, that made me mad. The fact he has turned a hobby into a profession is something I envy. I wish we all could be so lucky..

I don't think it matters at all what his profession is. I just thought it was interesting that someone who doesn't live in OKC is spearheading the campaign. He does have a close shopping option in the Village, at least for groceries and fast food.


Some of you are making it harder for me to pinch my nose and vote "yes." I just cannot believe the attitude so many of you have for anybody who dares oppose this thing. It is something else.

I think people have a perfect right to oppose this. I just wish they would state their case honestly. There's a lot of criticism of Mick Cornett for his "taxes will not increase" statment by the people who are voting no. But I think exaggerating the amount people will pay on the average for this tax, and assuring them that we will get a team even if the tax doesn't pass, when everyone with authority has assured us that is not the case, seems a little like twisting facts for political ends as well. If they're going to criticize the mayor for using semantics, of "lying", they need to keep their noses squeaky clean. And trust me, solitude, there are places on the internet where the opposing side is as, if not more, malicious in their treatment of people on the "yes" side than the group you are referring to here. What I'm trying to say is, there is bad behavior on both sides. Neither side should be throwing stones at the other.


Hopefully, we'll have a "Yes" win on March 4th. But more importantly, Senator Barack Obama has a chance to win Ohio and Texas that day and pretty much put away the Democratic nomination for President. To me, that's the most important election of the day..

I am probably a wee bit more nervous/excited about the former, but I would be thrilled with the latter. I'm also pretty excited Obama won Oklahoma City, despite his poor showing in some parts of the state.

I don't think there's anything noble about large corporations. Like I could care less what DG's occupation is, I don't think the fact that the Sonics owners are wealthy should have anything to do with this vote either. I would like to have a team here, for many reasons, many of which I think would be very beneficial to my city. For all their faults, real or presumed, I do think the owners of the Sonics are truly committed to Oklahoma City. They've been philanthropists and civic leaders, and I honestly consider bringing a team to Oklahoma City an act of philanthropy.

Also, I don't want to lose all the good concerts to Tulsa and their new arena. When I moved here, all the good concerts went to Tulsa, and people here drove there for them. When we got the Ford Center, things started changing. I don't want to go back to driving there, and I fear their new arena will be stiff competition if we don't improve ours.

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

No, YOU'RE funny.

Ha.

Ha.

...

David, you said you live in the Village meaning you won't even have to pay taxes at all.

But if you do, ( what did you say $10) a month, which btw, doesn't add up.. but regardless, is a drop in the bucket. Not to mention after businesses pay their fare share, it will be even less.

I look at this as being similar to staging a home when you ready to sell it. You drop some money in the beginning to improve and upgrade the home and then reap the benefits when it sells.


Come on.. 10 bucks a month for years and years of positive, beneficial returns for the city... hey you're gettin a tax rebate, you'll never miss your $10. People spend that on Starbucks in a day!

Have you missed the few cents that Maps charged you? And are you enjoying all the benefits and perks of the improvements Maps paid for?

I can understand someone not wanting this vote for personal reasons but the information has to be accurate if you're going public with it and trying to change people's minds.

I'm not targeting just you David, you probably feel as strongly as I do.. just on the wrong side.. lol.. I'm extremely passionate about this issue and yes, we are all, but we need to make every attempt to not make it personal and focus on the issues at hand.

Vote Yes March 4th!

What precisely is corporate welfare? How does it relate to this situation? If we are getting something for our money, can that than be considered welfare? If the Sonics' owners do not own the Ford Center, and the Blazers and Yard Dawgs benefit, and we get more concerts and events, who precisely are the welfare recipients? Just curious as to what your thoughts on this are.

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

City owned arena...That fact is hard to spin...Taxpayers also may fund changes to an arena because it simply isn't good enough to host a major league tenant long term and they want a great venue for a variety of events they attend

Tulsa is almost done with a $200 mil arena that won't have a major league tenant

Realizing the current version of the Ford just won't cut it isn't really that difficult to grasp

The corporate welfare police should hold out until rumors of a brand new arena start swirling...This little one year one center is beyond a bargain for having a great arena and an NBA team playing in it 41 nights a year for years to come

That $150 figure is pure hogwash. We're talking one cent on the dollar, so to generate an extra $150 you'd have to spend $15,000 in a year.

What's that? A family of five can easily spend $300 a week on groceries? True enough. But Glover and company claim it's $150 from every man, woman and child, so Mom, Dad, and each of the kids needs to drop $300 at the Homeland every week - $1500 total - to make those numbers come out.

If you're going to take a No Subsidies stance, it needs to be universal: no subsidies for anybody, anywhere, at any time. See how well that works out.

I have some issues with the Chamber of Commerce's numbers, too, but questionable methodology is a lot more forgivable than blatant BS.

David, I have agreed with nothing you have said about this campaign. You accuse one side of empty rhetoric and have truths when you are doing the same.

That said, from hearing you speak on tv I can tell you are not a stupid individual. I don't care where you got your numbers anyone with half a brain can do some simple math and see the $150 doesn't work.

If every "man, women and child" spent $150 dollars on this the citizens of OKC would more than pay for this. We wouldn't need out of town dollars or buisness tax dollars to do this. The $150 is simply dividing the cost of this project by the population of OKC which is not the correct way.

Also, that means a family of four would contribute $600. Will there be some families where this is the case? Maybe but that means the familt would spend $60,000 on food and retail alone over the life of the tax in OKC. In a city where the average income in $35,000 that is a little hard for me to swallow.

The thruth is there is not way to figure an average per family. Everybody will contribute vastly different amount to this.

That is a little bit of what I've been trying to figure out.. if you are truly 'poor' or destitute, you don't buy very much to be taxed on anyway, right?

1 % of nothing is, well ... nothing.

I know Cigarettes, Alcohol and what is it 4% on groceries ( which is ridiculous to tax food, but that is another topic), Utilities, Gas? ... but if people are truly poor and are still buying tobacco and alcohol then they can certainly afford another penny.

People who spend the most money are those who will really be paying the most taxes... and it's their choice to make the big purchases and hopefully can afford to do so.

Maybe I'm not understanding but I don't buy the 'taxing the poor' argument.

It should be noted that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax as the source of public contribution to arenas. Not one.

I'm voting "yes" but we have to be able to see that the opposition can have valid arguments against this thing without all the name-calling. There's fuzzy math on both sides, but the fact that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax is not disputable.

Some of you people are funny. I live in the Village, if you look at a map it is surrounded by OKC. Most of my spending is in OKC, but that doesn't matter. This is a tax vote, that will impact everyone. It will cost the average OKC resident $150 (every man, woman and child). These are the city's numbers - not mine. The taxpayers would fund changes to the arena so a new tenant can make more money. 90% of he people I talk with are against corporate welfare.

You're the one that's funny. Trying to take advantage of the time at the end of each council meeting given to citizens to voice their opinions, when you're not even a citizen of Oklahoma City.
What if I went and tried to talk smack at a Village council meeting. I bet they'd laugh and escort me out the door when they found out I wasn't a citizen of the Village.

It should be noted that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax as the source of public contribution to arenas. Not one.

I'm voting "yes" but we have to be able to see that the opposition can have valid arguments against this thing without all the name-calling. There's fuzzy math on both sides, but the fact that no NBA city has ever used a sales tax is not disputable.

And that's why a lot of them are in a bad situation solitude...Love the short term - paid off routine that sets OKC apart from most other cities...If Seattle would have done that 12 years ago w/ the Key remodel there wouldn't be a story now

You're the one that's funny. Trying to take advantage of the time at the end of each council meeting given to citizens to voice their opinions, when you're not even a citizen of Oklahoma City.
What if I went and tried to talk smack at a Village council meeting. I bet they'd laugh and escort me out the door when they found out I wasn't a citizen of the Village.

Nope. If the actions of a city impacts on someone outside the city limits - they are welcome. All local governments in the metropolitan area recognize anyone from the metro area. The Village is surrounded by Oklahoma City. Obviously, people in The Village are impacted by the actions of decisions made in downtown Oklahoma City. In fact, isn't this the argument used by the proponents? That we shouldn't just count citizens of OKC in the tax base, because that's not reality? That's true, but it's true all the way around.

Then there should be another time for them to talk during the meeting, not during the "citizens'" time.

And that's why a lot of them are in a bad situation solitude...Love the short term - paid off routine that sets OKC apart from most other cities...If Seattle would have done that 12 years ago w/ the Key remodel there wouldn't be a story now

Point well taken. Some who are against it though, obviously point to the fact that a sales tax is inherently regressive. But, you make a very good point as to the short-term payoff for this initial expenditure.

I'm still trying to figure out how $10 a month adds up to $150 a year.

David's math has been suspect from the day he spoke at the City Council ... see http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/12133-why-vote-no-video-2.html#post128917 ... then he said that the number was $500 per voter.

It doesn't bother me that he does live in Okc city limits at all ... he lives in the metro and that's close enough for me.

I'm a family of two, and we spend about $300 on groceries a month, and $300 on retail shopping/going out to eat. That's $600 a month, whic will mean 1% is going to the tax, which is $6 a month, or $72 a year. By the way, using David's math, that's $3 per person, NOT $10 per person, and $36 per person per year, not $150 per person.

I think that's a small price to pay for the impact this will have on our city.

And by the way, we've been paying this for the last 10+ years, so it's not like it's going to change my budget any.

I'm a family of two, and we spend about $300 on groceries a month, and $300 on retail shopping/going out to eat. That's $600 a month, whic will mean 1% is going to the tax, which is $6 a month, or $72 a year. By the way, using David's math, that's $3 per person, NOT $10 per person, and $36 per person per year, not $150 per person.

I think that's a small price to pay for the impact this will have on our city.

And by the way, we've been paying this for the last 10+ years, so it's not like it's going to change my budget any.
The original MAPS vote passed in December 1993, to be exact!

Not defending Glover's position, but really the point about him not living in OKC is rather weak, unless you would have everyone who lives in the Village, Warr Acres, etc be exempt from OKC sales taxes.

Not defending Glover's position, but really the point about him not living in OKC is rather weak, unless you would have everyone who lives in the Village, Warr Acres, etc be exempt from OKC sales taxes.

I actually agree.



The original MAPS vote passed in December 1993, to be exact!

So, almost 15 years of paying 8.375%.

Not defending Glover's position, but really the point about him not living in OKC is rather weak, unless you would have everyone who lives in the Village, Warr Acres, etc be exempt from OKC sales taxes.

Yes!! I think this dead horse has been thoroughly beaten.

Not defending Glover's position, but really the point about him not living in OKC is rather weak, unless you would have everyone who lives in the Village, Warr Acres, etc be exempt from OKC sales taxes.

Although I agree that's the case, what hasn't been said is that for everyone who has any sort of transportation, this is a voluntary tax. Warr Acres claim to fame is their lower sales tax, so if people from there shop in OKC, that's their choice. Same with the Village. Although there's not a shopping center in the Village, you can certainly do your grocery shopping within the Village, and people who don't want to pay the tax can buy big ticket items online or in one of the suburbs. Most people without transportation probably fall within the group eligible for a sales tax refund or rebate. So, although they don't get to vote, people from any of the burbs also don't have to shop.

Although I agree that's the case, what hasn't been said is that for everyone who has any sort of transportation, this is a voluntary tax. Warr Acres claim to fame is their lower sales tax, so if people from there shop in OKC, that's their choice. Same with the Village. Although there's not a shopping center in the Village, you can certainly do your grocery shopping within the Village, and people who don't want to pay the tax can buy big ticket items online or in one of the suburbs. Most people without transportation probably fall within the group eligible for a sales tax refund or rebate. So, although they don't get to vote, people from any of the burbs also don't have to shop.

With all due respect, that's one of the more ridiculous things I've read yet.
See my thread on Sales Taxes.
By the way, Warr Acres recently raised their taxes - that claim to fame is gone.

AY-iq58_oz4

Not sure what exactly the video is.. but it gave me goosebumps and took me right back to all of the excitement of the Hornet's games ... I'll never forget David West's buzzer beater... I thought I would just die....

I lost my voice at every game!

God, I hope this tax passes and we get a team.. although I have to say, I wish it were the Hornets.

The point is I will be Thomas Hill if we beating this thing. I am so passionate about it...I work for a large company that delivers/picks up packages, and my area is Mercy/Quail springs. Mayor Cornett has people from his church working on his ugly, deceitful campaign, so one day I had to deliver a package there...turns out it had to go to the school. I took it there and surely enough, one of the good christian folk there who works on the campaign said by doing my job I was trying to harass them....I think she called my boss and tried to get me fired, not sure my boss won't say as he is an overly reasonable man.
I tell that story because it is the tip of the iceberg with regards to the cruelty and absolute assault on the democratic and sometimes christian principles that our country was founded on. My parents are on mailers like Focus on the Family and they received this Friday:

http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f313/fashionquote/?action=view&current=mailer.jpg


This to me is absolutely insulting. Using God and Christianity to try and get what one wants on something like this. It's just wrong. I won't go into any detalis about Humphries here either...I'll save those games for Betts who I imagine is yet another big box megachurch "christian" but I could be mistaken.

I believe we will get so much from a no vote. We will send out a message that we are tired of these sorts of things...socialist corporatism has created very bad things for our country, and we need to get back to what made us great. Too many kidults running around town not being responsible and demanding to have fun all the time and have casual Friday everyday at work, on and on hopefully you get the point.

The country is watching us, and belittling us as did Connie Chung when she asked Fire Chief Hanson "do you think your city is capable of handling something like this?" they think we are dumb, fat, and fall for the things that pretend to be fiscal conservatism but are everything but....If we beat this, we can appear to the nation as we did then. We didn't need halliburton or any of those fancy firms to come in and fix things for us...we took care of matters by ourselves because we are good caring people. If we beat this they will have a new respect for us, middle class working families and small businesses will note that OKC is a good place for people like them, and I don't believe anything will change with big business either. Excuse me for looking at the big picture here, I know that my side is held to much higher standards than the yes vote people who happen to have much more influence, and look at the big picture themselves quite often, please forgive me for that as that is just how I am. If I type much more I am sure I will be called Ted Kaczynski, much less I'll be told I don't have anything to say so I think I'll stop righ

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; and Third, it is accepted as self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer

no vote means a lot of things. One of which = The Hornets

Eek8y0wHSaA

fubaduba,

I thought the flyer was disgusting as well. The picture link on your post is broken, so I fixed it for you. Here's the flyer:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f313/fashionquote/mailer.jpg?t=1204464906


Wow. The gall.