View Full Version : Nepotism



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foiaokc08
02-10-2008, 08:32 PM
I've got a new subject for everyone to gnaw on: NEPOTISM in the City of Oklahoma City. For starters, Susan McNitt, City Auditor (THE AUDITOR of all people!), is married to the Police Chief, Bill Citty. Dianna Berry, Personnel Director, is married to Assistant City Manager, MT Berry. There are many more high profile examples, but I will save those for later and see how many you all can come up with.

What does everyone think of this? Honestly - the City is rife with nepotism. And, we all know -- when nepotism flourishes THINGS go unchecked.

andy157
02-10-2008, 09:29 PM
I've got a new subject for everyone to gnaw on: NEPOTISM in the City of Oklahoma City. For starters, Susan McNitt, City Auditor (THE AUDITOR of all people!), is married to the Police Chief, Bill Citty. Dianna Berry, Personnel Director, is married to Assistant City Manager, MT Berry. There are many more high profile examples, but I will save those for later and see how many you all can come up with.

What does everyone think of this? Honestly - the City is rife with nepotism. And, we all know -- when nepotism flourishes THINGS go unchecked.Regarding Nepotism within our Local City Government (OKC), I do not believe there are any higher profile cases than the two you mentioned. Yes there are policies regarding Nepotism, and yes they do get around them.

kevinpate
02-11-2008, 05:37 AM
Working in different departments, with different reporting lines of authority and supervision.

I'm not really seeing this as nepotism, unless I'm way off track and the city's peeps policies states no kin anywhere, anytime. I would imagine though, there's language more along the far more common prohibitions about no kin get hired in to serve under under one's direct authority/supervision.

foiaokc08
02-11-2008, 06:46 AM
No - NO - No. There are checks and balances. City departments must collaborate all the time. The Auditor audits all city departments - including PD. Can we trust her to rat out her own husband if she finds corruption? NEVER!

Karried
02-11-2008, 07:45 AM
Did they meet on the job?

Or did he help her or vice versa get the job after they were married?

jbrown84
02-11-2008, 07:51 AM
Did they meet on the job?

Or did he help her or vice versa get the job after they were married?

That's an important question to ask.

Midtowner
02-11-2008, 08:03 AM
No - NO - No. There are checks and balances. City departments must collaborate all the time. The Auditor audits all city departments - including PD. Can we trust her to rat out her own husband if she finds corruption? NEVER!

It's a good thing police are never corrupt and never do anything wrong.

Otherwise, we'd have a lot to worry about there.

foiaokc08
02-11-2008, 11:33 AM
how bout this. Two departments heads in the City. (I won't say who YET.) They both had sons. The sons were given internships (paid? unpaid?) in each others department. The problem with NEPOTISM is that career opportunities become a birthright. Was anyone else given the opportunity to apply for those internships? It's highly unlikely.

foiaokc08
02-11-2008, 11:35 AM
how bout this. Two departments heads in the City. (I won't say who YET.) They both had sons. The sons were given internships (paid? unpaid?) in each others department. The problem with NEPOTISM is that career opportunities become a birthright. Was anyone else given the opportunity to apply for those internships? It's highly unlikely. But, hey - BETTS doesn't care WHO is in office - as long as things go well for her. GIVE ME A BREAK. When we quit caring about whether statesmen/women are appointed or elected, we start electing the STIPES and HALLS of the world.

solitude
02-11-2008, 11:47 AM
You said in another thread you "made a living off the freedom of information act." What do you mean? How do you do that? Maybe I'm in the wrong line of work!

Patrick
02-11-2008, 12:51 PM
I think it's the same in any field. It's usually who you know that gets you the job or gets you off the hook. People are more likely to help their friends in any given field. I see it in medicine.....students that are sons of doctors usually don't have a problem getting into medical school. That's not to say there's any bias, because those students have to meet the same admission requirements, but if you have two students with the same stats, and only one spot to give, who would you give the spot to?

OKC PATROL
02-11-2008, 01:05 PM
Props to a minor league baseball player for even knowing what Nepotism means. lol

Bottom line is.....Its just an ignorant/angry excuse to not vote yes on the Ford Center Improvements.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-11-2008, 02:24 PM
lol...Nepotism is everywhere. Not just in this city.

Heck, look in the oval office sometime. That man certainly didn't get there on skill.

bornhere
02-11-2008, 08:09 PM
I think the city's nepotism policy says two relatives can't work in the same division of a department.

The instance of the police chief, who reports to an assistant city mgr, and the auditor, who reports directly to the council, was specifically approved by the council in advance. And neither helped the other get the job. They were already in those positions when they got engaged.

I think it's unfair for a department head to ask another department head to find a job for a child. If the new employee (or intern) doesn't work out, it's hard to deal with that appropriately if you know it's going to starin your working relationship with another dept.

Kerry
02-12-2008, 07:47 AM
Heck, look in the oval office sometime. That man certainly didn't get there on skill.

Relax OGTS, Hillary isn't elected yet. She still needs to win the nomination. Be careful calling her a man though. I don't think she likes that.

Midtowner
02-12-2008, 07:58 AM
how bout this. Two departments heads in the City. (I won't say who YET.) They both had sons. The sons were given internships (paid? unpaid?) in each others department. The problem with NEPOTISM is that career opportunities become a birthright. Was anyone else given the opportunity to apply for those internships? It's highly unlikely. But, hey - BETTS doesn't care WHO is in office - as long as things go well for her. GIVE ME A BREAK. When we quit caring about whether statesmen/women are appointed or elected, we start electing the STIPES and HALLS of the world.

Reading the nepotism statute, that's not illegal so far as I can tell.

Best of luck tilting at those windmills.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-12-2008, 08:23 AM
Relax OGTS, Hillary isn't elected yet. She still needs to win the nomination. Be careful calling her a man though. I don't think she likes that.

LMAO.

That's no lie. But it does help to hammer home the point that there has been a Clinton or a Bush in the White House in some capacity since 1981.

bombermwc
02-12-2008, 08:57 AM
Personally, I only find nepotism to be an issue in different situations. My company has a LOT of people that are family in it. It has helped to create an atmosphere unlike most companies where people hoenstly do care what happens to each of us...and with 500 employees, that's a big deal. What has made it work is how it's handled. Family members can't for FOR one another, and generally stay out of each other's department's all together. We interact all the time, but the door swings both ways. Sometimes being a family member means you don't treat a person as nice...not just treat them better. It can hinder communication as much as foster it.

So if we have people in offices across the city that are related, I don't really have an issue as long as they do their job. We just have to rely on normal checks and balances to make sure things work right. Honestly, who's to say that if a different person was in one of these positions that they wouldn't play favorites with their friends instead of their spouse???

okcpulse
02-12-2008, 10:42 AM
foiaokc08, you bring up a lot of good points about the direction our government is taking, and you are not wrong for being concerned, but you have to realize that our entire government system has problems, top to bottom. It is run by people who aren't perfect and it's a fallacy to believe that some utopic government exists out there.

You can't use this as a reason for voting against Ford Center improvements. If you have a problem with the way city government is organized, vote the person or persons responsible out of office. Don't vote against something that people on the street are excited about. You're taking an indirect action against city government, and at the end of the day when the election is over, the same people will be in the same office.

This is why I don't believe in skepticism and conspiracy theories. Every skeptic I've ever dealt with only pays attention to the dark side of any issue. Look at the skeptics of the first MAPS plan. Every skeptic claimed the city would fail to complete MAPS, and the money would just go to the politicians. Those same people are still trying to wash the taste of their feet out of their mouth. And conspiracy theories have been here since the beginning of time, they are her today and they will be here for a long time to come. You have to be a realist about life. Certain people will always try to corrupt any system, whether or not they succeed. To constantly try to turn this into an 'US AGAINST THEM' situation will only get this city in trouble. It has before with our schools. Everyone harped and whined about the failure on the 1989 bond issue and how government is screwed up. But no one took any action directly against the city government. They only took indirect action by voting against school bond issue elections. Ultimately, only the children suffered with crumbling schools.

I care about what happens at city hall, and if any official abuses their powers, I'll vote them out. But I WILL NOT vote down a public project just because a few people I will probably never meet rub me the wrong way. I will only vote against a public project that doesn't make sense. And let's face it, voting against Ford Center improvements is foolish knowing that it's only a bare-bones arena.

What you point out happens EVERYWHERE in our economy, not just city government. Heck, even here in HOUSTON of all places, the only way I got into the IT field was from knowing someone on the inside. Short of that, no one would have anything to do with me.

hipsterdoofus
02-12-2008, 02:40 PM
I agree you have to be careful about nepotism, but also agree that you are more likely to hire someone you know...just how it works...like the saying says...its not what you know...

jsenter
02-12-2008, 03:03 PM
Relax OGTS, Hillary isn't elected yet. She still needs to win the nomination. Be careful calling her a man though. I don't think she likes that.


I think he was referring to Bush, the worst president we've ever had.

solitude
02-12-2008, 04:20 PM
I think he was referring to Bush, the worst president we've ever had.


While I agree with you about Bush - Kerry was just being funny. I even laughed.

foiaokc08
02-12-2008, 07:19 PM
Ok - So, OKCPULSE has given me something to think about. But, I'm still voting no. But, that's OK. My wife is voting yes and so we're cancelling one another out.

I have much more to post about nepotism, but it will have to wait for another day. I'm researching the City phone directory now, cross referencing it with public records. About 4,000 people work for the City. I'll let you know just how many I turn up that are related.

And, yes, the policy cited by others is correct, and yet, in one department I have discovered a manager in an elite field of study who is engaged to a subordinate IN HIS DEPARTMENT. Rich.

bandnerd
02-12-2008, 08:05 PM
What's with the witch hunt, anyway? It sounds more like a personal vendetta than anything else. Did Daddy not hire you?

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-12-2008, 08:09 PM
I think he was referring to Bush, the worst president we've ever had.

I don't know about EVER...Lincoln's bookends James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson (who sided with Confederates after the civil war) were pretty freakin' bad. But he's definitely up there in my rankings.


Ok - So, OKCPULSE has given me something to think about. But, I'm still voting no. But, that's OK. My wife is voting yes and so we're cancelling one another out.

I have much more to post about nepotism, but it will have to wait for another day. I'm researching the City phone directory now, cross referencing it with public records. About 4,000 people work for the City. I'll let you know just how many I turn up that are related.

And, yes, the policy cited by others is correct, and yet, in one department I have discovered a manager in an elite field of study who is engaged to a subordinate IN HIS DEPARTMENT. Rich.

You have either been personally burned by somebody's sister/brother/wife/fiance or you have entirely too much time on your hands. I mean really. Cross referencing the phone directory?

FritterGirl
02-12-2008, 08:18 PM
And, yes, the policy cited by others is correct, and yet, in one department I have discovered a manager in an elite field of study who is engaged to a subordinate IN HIS DEPARTMENT. Rich.

Unless one is a direct supervisor to the other, it is NOT against city policy.

Before he retired, my dad had his own medium-sized business. Mom did all of the books. I worked in my dad's office during the summers. What's the big deal? In a family-owned business, what's wrong with keeping it "in the family?"

I know two people who work for the city, who happen to be married, and who work in the same department. Neither is a supervisor for the other. They met ON THE JOB, fell in love and got married. Is this such an odd occurrence? While you're wasting your time on this endeavor, why not go to devon, Chesapeake, American Fidelity or any other numerous large organizations in this city and check their company phone books. My guess is you'll find just as many married / engaged / familial relationships in those organizations.

Kerry
02-12-2008, 08:53 PM
In the company I work for the Chief Operating Officer (COO) is married to the VP of Finance. Oh wait, I got that wrong. What I meant to say is in my family I am married to my wife. I go to work and make money and she pays the bills and does the shopping. I can't spend a dime without being audited. I guess it is nepotism, but it seems to work well for us. Now if I just get those 2 kids down in the mail room to pull their weight I would be set.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-12-2008, 08:57 PM
In the company I work for the Chief Operating Officer (COO) is married to the VP of Finance. Oh wait, I got that wrong. What I meant to say is in my family I am married to my wife. I go to work and make money and she pays the bills and does the shopping. I can't spend a dime without being audited. I guess it is nepotism, but it seems to work well for us. Now if I just get those 2 kids down in the mail room to pull their weight I would be set.

Stock options in the family car will motivate them.

Kerry
02-12-2008, 09:04 PM
They aren't that old yet. I though bikes would improve mailroom moral but it just made them more competitive. So I enrolled them in the same karate class. Should be fun come annual merit/bonus time.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-12-2008, 09:23 PM
They aren't that old yet. I though bikes would improve mailroom moral but it just made them more competitive. So I enrolled them in the same karate class. Should be fun come annual merit/bonus time.

Karate might raise your overhead with regards to furniture allocations and medical expenses if not properly supervised. It could also create tension in the workplace when sombody's chi gets screwed up and they decide to go all Bruce Lee on fellow mailfolk. You might try a mandatory employee course in medatative Yoga.

That, or hang a sign on the door that says "The beatings and random executions will continue until morale improves".

Midtowner
02-12-2008, 10:04 PM
Stock options in the family car will motivate them.

Studies say that recognition is the #1 employee motivator.

Perhaps an annual awards banquet at Chuck E. Cheese?

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-12-2008, 10:09 PM
Good idea. Perhaps with a "Transformers" theme. It will segue nicely into the upcoming changes in the mailroom regarding chores.

Karried
02-12-2008, 10:24 PM
lol, you guys are cracking me up.

foiaokc08
02-13-2008, 05:21 AM
No personal witch hunt. I'm taking my leads from what has been done in other cities. It's regrettable that you (vendetta man) have made it so personal. I have a few friends who work for the City, as well as other municipalities - MWC, Edmond. They are the ones that have complained about this to ME. They don't even know I pause long enough to take notes.

Why does entering the public discourse about nepotism invite such ire? We are so fortunate to have our freedoms and to hold the people who spend our tax dollars to the highest standards of conduct. Do we only talk about ethics because it is fashionable? Why is shining the light on this issue bothering you so much? Maybe this just hits too close to home for you.

And, for the record, I think comments like "Did Daddy Not Hire You" are really immature. Let's not make it personal and contniue the dialogue. I've been on OKC TALK a long, long time. I know am familiar with all the posters. This is a kind of club, as online communities become. I have decided to make my voice heard. It is ashame that you are so easily annoyed and scared by another man's opinion. Let's not get mean. As far as my "daddy" he might as well have been a mineworker. Ahh. An industry ripe with nepotism. But, nobody is complaining about that, huh?

Indulge me and allow me to make it personal on my end: maybe you should go live in Asia. I lived there for a few years in the late 80s. If I talked about nepotism in Shanghai, I'd be shot. I hear the weather is beautiful this time of year.

Kerry
02-13-2008, 05:37 AM
FOIAOKC2008 - I guess I would be more interested in this subject if you were uncovering some kind of wrong doing but you seem to be more interested in who is sleeping with who rather than uncovering some kind of wide spread fraud. So what if person A is married/engaged/dating person B. Are they using that relationship to defraud the city? If so you have a point, but otherwise it just seems creepy that you care so much. And so what that 2 employees are sharing interns. Heck, my kids love to come to my office and see what I do. Maybe someday I will teach them how to do what I do for a living and they can work with me. There are worse things you can do as human than help your children.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-13-2008, 05:41 AM
FOIAOKC2008 - I guess I would be more interested in this subject if you were uncovering some kind of wrong doing but you seem to be more intereseted in who is sleeping with who rather than uncovering some kind of wide spread fraud. So what if person A is married/engaged/dating person B. Are they using that relationship to defraud the city? If so you have a point, but otherwise it just seems creepy that you care so much. And so what they 2 employees are sharing interens. Heck, my kids love to come to my office and see what I do. Maybe someday I will teach them how to do what I do for a living and they can come work with me. There are worse things you can do as human than help your children.


Maybe I read that wrong...But...Sharing interns?

I want to work there.

foiaokc08
02-13-2008, 06:43 AM
Creepy that I care so much? Good grief. I can't dignify that with a response. You are attacking me personally because I am researching nepotism in the City of Oklahoma City. It's kind of creepy that you want me to care so little.

What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white womanís daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isnít nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but Iím not going to stop reporting this stuff. Itís just facts. Iíll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley. And, if you think it's creepy, then you have a right to your opinion, but to try to discredit me or malign me because you don't agree with what I say, is just unsophisticated. Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

flintysooner
02-13-2008, 06:46 AM
foiaokc08 is it your position that if one member of a family works for the City then no other members of the same family should be able to work for the City in any other capacity?

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-13-2008, 06:47 AM
Everybody picks their boogers.

It's more a question of when.
For instance, I only do it while sitting in traffic.

Karried
02-13-2008, 06:52 AM
Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

Wrong subject matter for OhGawdtheSmell...He just might ask you! Not only does he pick his boogers, but flings them out the sunroof at bad drivers... lol

Honestly, none of the above is a personal attack.

Obviously, this is a matter that is important to you.

I think it would be interesting to see some exact, concrete examples of these incidents resulting from nepotism.

Some of the perceived wrongdoings haven't come to pass yet but you assume they will because of the relationships at hand.

I think everyone is saying that this happens in every working environment.

Unless you have proof that wrongdoing is occuring, at this point it's all speculation.

How about some examples of what you know of personally?

Karried
02-13-2008, 06:53 AM
See, he beat me to the booger question! We were posting at the same time!

CuatrodeMayo
02-13-2008, 07:17 AM
Creepy that I care so much? Good grief. I can't dignify that with a response. You are attacking me personally because I am researching nepotism in the City of Oklahoma City. It's kind of creepy that you want me to care so little.

What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white womanís daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isnít nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but Iím not going to stop reporting this stuff. Itís just facts. Iíll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley. And, if you think it's creepy, then you have a right to your opinion, but to try to discredit me or malign me because you don't agree with what I say, is just unsophisticated. Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

A college degree is not an automatic edge in job hunting. Skills and experience manytimes carry much more weight.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-13-2008, 07:38 AM
See, he beat me to the booger question! We were posting at the same time!

I'm very quick on the draw with boogers.

I'll stop now. :copulate_


foia...I work for the government (fed side though), and it exists there. Every place I've ever worked (including military) has had some sort of nepotism going on. What are you going to do if/when you find it? Tell somebody to get a divorce? Demand that they be fired? What if they're doing a good job?

Midtowner
02-13-2008, 07:59 AM
Creepy that I care so much? Good grief. I can't dignify that with a response. You are attacking me personally because I am researching nepotism in the City of Oklahoma City. It's kind of creepy that you want me to care so little.

What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white womanís daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isnít nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but Iím not going to stop reporting this stuff. Itís just facts. Iíll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley. And, if you think it's creepy, then you have a right to your opinion, but to try to discredit me or malign me because you don't agree with what I say, is just unsophisticated. Why don't you just ask me if I pick my boogers?

Do you have copies of each applicant's resumť? Did the individual who didn't get hired only have her associates? (that degree is worth about as much as a HS diploma). You don't know the whole story. Don't pretend that you do.

It's true -- it's not always what you know but who you know that gets you a job. That's never been a secret.

Really though -- what's wrong with that? When you're an employer and you have two potential employees before you. One, you know through a friend. That friend tells you that this employee is a good person, that she's done having kid, that she has not crazy drama in her personal life, etc. The other employee is a 100% unknown factor. Are you going to trust the interview (where you can't even ask the kids question) to predict which employee will be the right choice?

Most of us seem pretty happy with that situation. I am in my current job as a direct result of nepotism. If I worked in a state agency, I'd be in violation of the law. Does that mean I'm bad at my job? Nope. In fact, I'm vastly overqualified.

FOIA, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but unless you can make the argument that because of these sorts of hires, performance has suffered, your opinion is meaningless. If there has been any actual lawbreaking, I urge you to contact the Attorney General for the State of Oklahoma.

FritterGirl
02-13-2008, 08:01 AM
What do you think of this? Two city employees apply for the same job. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white woman’s daughter is in an extracurricular activity with the daughter of a very prominent city official. The white woman got the job. This isn’t nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as a bunch of hooey or crap.) I understand, this thread makes people uncomfortable, but I’m not going to stop reporting this stuff. It’s just facts. I’ll leave the commentating up to Ed Kelley.

What do you think of this? Two people apply for the same job at XYZ Corporation. One is black woman with a college degree. One is white - a female - with no degree. Both make it through the first round of interviews. They move on to interview with the department head. But, the white woman has an edge on the black woman. The white woman’s daughter/son/husband/other random family member is in an extracurricular activity/goes to church with/was in school with/was in the same fraternity/sorority as the daughter/son/husband/other random family member of a the Company’s CEO/COO/CFO/Grand Poobah. The white woman got the job. This isn’t nepotism, but favoritism galvanized by rich, personal relationships. (Also known as networking.)

Sorry, FOIA, this type of thing goes on every day in every city and in just about every company out there. It has been going on for centuries. And is certainly NOT limited to government. You think non-profit organizations and universities get funded out of the goodness of peoples’ hearts? In some instances, yes. More often, it is because these organizations cultivate relationships with the people they want to solicit funds from.

If anything, I would venture a guess that most governments have to be MORE careful and OPEN about their hiring practices than private corporations.

You tell us a person got slighted but you did not tell us the whole of the story.

If Person A walks into my widget factory with a college degree (let’s say History), does that make him/her more qualified to take on the job as Widget Production Supervisor than Person B who has five years experience working in widgets, but may not know squat about Walt Whitman or WWII? Did the job in question even require a college degree?

You’re very quick with your allegations and accusations, but fail to see – or at least present to us – the whole of the story.

You accuse us of making this personal. You sir/madam made it personal when you chose to rant on here about your grievances that smack of bitterness against the city, as if you personally have been slighted by them. You then used those base allegations to say why you are voting “no” for a community initiative that has little or nothing to do with the subject over which you are so bitter. People were just pointing out the irrationality in your argument.

By the way, just to remind you, Ed Kelly works for an organization that is run by a family. Until just a few years ago, you could not read the masthead of the paper without seeing at least one person with the last name of Gaylord. It’s not an accusation, but a fact.

Networking with people you know to get jobs is really kind of part of the fabric of our society throughout the US.

bandnerd
02-13-2008, 08:11 AM
I work in an industry that is ripe with nepotism, as well: EDUCATION. I can name several husband-wife band directing duos in the area. Yeah, it's a little unfair...but whatever, I have a job, and I'm not going to nitpick others.

I might be immature, but at least I'm funny. HA.

I really don't even see the point in all of this...I seriously think you have way too much time on your hands.

jbrown84
02-13-2008, 08:38 AM
(Also known as networking.)

Haha. Exactly.

I have no problem with you seeking to expose corruption, FOIA, but so far you've done nothing but point out that in life, it's often more about who you know than what you know. There's nothing illegal about it, and unethical is borderline. If someone is vastly underqualified compared to other applicants, maybe, but usually networking helps out when you're looking at equally qualified candidates.

Show me proof of real corruption, and then I'll listen.

Kerry
02-13-2008, 09:54 AM
I once worked for a company in Tampa that had an unqualified VP of Training and Events Management. She went from Secretary to VP in 5 years. I had a huge disagreement with her over some software decisions and my manager, VP of HR, told me that she was put into her position by the CEO so I would just have to live with it. I told her I didn't have to live with the bad decisions - the CEO had to live with bad decisions.

The bottom line is, if you hire bad people (no matter what the reason) then you are the one that is being affected and will have to explain or live with poor performance. The Board of Directors eventually fired the CEO and the VP of Training and Events for poor performance.

foiaokc08
02-13-2008, 03:11 PM
Yeah, I pick my boogers, too.

This is getting kind of old.

Why doth one need be bitter (insert Mr. Darcey accent) to careth about nepotism?

Why doth thou thinketh I am wastingeth my time caringeth as I ameth?

I am not quite ready to state my full, unabridged opinion yet. I am still researching. You know, Woodward and Bernstein. (I know - self-indulgent comment. At least I'm not an exhibitionistic, snarky BLOGGER.)

foiaokc08
02-13-2008, 03:41 PM
ONE MORE BRILLIANT THOUGHT. Fasten Your Seat Belts.

Since WHEN did the frequency of OR propenstiy for something become the standard by which we measure right or wrong? "It happens all the time." THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT?

Brilliant ethics, I tell you. Just brilliant.

FritterGirl
02-13-2008, 03:49 PM
ONE MORE BRILLIANT THOUGHT. Fasten Your Seat Belts.

Since WHEN did the frequency of OR propenstiy for something become the standard by which we measure right or wrong? "It happens all the time." THIS IS YOUR ARGUMENT?

Brilliant ethics, I tell you. Just brilliant.

One could just as easily question the ethics of someone who publicly makes allegations against an entity and certain individuals within that entity without providing facts to substantiate said allegations.

And you still haven't answered any of our questions to you.

Now who's talking ethics?

Kerry
02-13-2008, 03:50 PM
FOIAOKC08 - Like I said, if you come across real corruption then let us know. However, from what I have seen so far this would only be considered investigative research for the gossip page. Usually, when people investigate something it is because a wrong has already been committed and the investigation is intended to uncover the truth. You seem to be going about this whole thing backwards.

You started with a list of 4,000 city employees and cross referenced them in a phone book with 600,000 listings to see if phone numbers match. Then, when you find 2 people with the same phone number you identify this as possible nepotism. Then you come on a public message board with hypothetical discrimination scenarios to back up your circumstantial nepotism claims. What do you plan to do after you compile your list of suspects? Ask for the resumes of everyone that applied for a city position but didn’t get a job and cross-reference them with applicants that did get a city job and then triangulate with job descriptions?

bornhere
02-13-2008, 05:04 PM
It might be worth mentioning that strictly speaking, nepotism is "the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs."

Which means that if two people who work for the city (or anywhere else) get married, it's not nepotism. If someone works in the Fire Department and they have a sister, brother, spouse, whatever, working in the Planning Department, it's nepotism only if one somehow used influence to help the other get the job. And since it's cross-department, it still doesn't meet the city's standard for nepotism.

FOIAOKC08, I think if you want to pursue this, you have to have more than what you say you have. You not only have to have the relationship, you have to have some provable example of how the relationship misdirected or redirected city procedure or policy.

As I've said before, I think the city's current nepotism policy opens the door to problems, but I can't say I know of one that has actually happened. If you hire some department head's offspring as an intern, and he does a great job, that's not a problem. If he's a goofoff, and he hangs onto his job not because of his parent but because he simply knows how to work the bureaucracy and the system to protect himself, that's a problem, but it's still not nepotism.

foiaokc08
02-14-2008, 06:49 AM
Yes - I have more than I am giving up.

Yes, I know about specific examples of corruption. Not only in regard to nepotism, but awarding of contracts.

No, I am not cross referencing 4,000 people with the phone book. I said, "public records." Why not reserve your judgement until the full report is released? Unless you work for the City are are afraid...

Regarding ethics - I have proposed that nepotism in City government leads to problems. I have not named names or violated any ethical standard of conduct, particularly as it relates to journalism or citizen journalism. I have only revealed loosely knitted examples to demonstrate an issue.

This has obviously hit much closer to home on this talk board than I ever imagined it would. Do you all work for the City???

Kerry
02-14-2008, 07:30 AM
Yes - I have more than I am giving up.

Yes, I know about specific examples of corruption. Not only in regard to nepotism, but awarding of contracts.

I don't believe you.

jbrown84
02-14-2008, 08:26 AM
This has obviously hit much closer to home on this talk board than I ever imagined it would. Do you all work for the City???

Perhaps you would have been greeted with more support if you had

(1) shown your supposed "evidence" of corruption, but you're still holding out

(2) not arrived by saying that you are voting against the completely unrelated Ford Center improvements because of alleged nepotism

FritterGirl
02-14-2008, 08:38 AM
Perhaps you would have been greeted with more support if you had

(1) shown your supposed "evidence" of corruption, but you're still holding out

(2) not arrived by saying that you are voting against the completely unrelated Ford Center improvements because of alleged nepotism

(3) answered the very specific questions we asked you.

bandnerd
02-14-2008, 09:03 AM
If you have all this information, then do something about it, don't just go telling us anonymously on a message board that you're so awesome and better because you can prove nepotism. Whoo hoo. Actions speak louder than words.

Midtowner
02-14-2008, 10:01 AM
Yes - I have more than I am giving up.

Why? Oh.. did you hear? Mick Cornett hired his son into the Oklahoma City death squad. Well of course you do. You know all about the nepotism in OKC. Surely you'll be targeted if they find out that you're the man who knows too much.


Yes, I know about specific examples of corruption. Not only in regard to nepotism, but awarding of contracts.

That stuff is pretty much common knowledge. Especially here. Especially when we start to talk about public trusts, or the individuals who knew to buy land along the new I-40 corridor well before the current route was ever really announced.


No, I am not cross referencing 4,000 people with the phone book. I said, "public records." Why not reserve your judgement until the full report is released? Unless you work for the City are are afraid...

Release your "report" then. FOIA, we get it. Freedom of Information Act.. how very clever.


Regarding ethics - I have proposed that nepotism in City government leads to problems. I have not named names or violated any ethical standard of conduct, particularly as it relates to journalism or citizen journalism. I have only revealed loosely knitted examples to demonstrate an issue.

Loosely knitted you say? I think more like highly speculative and baseless.


This has obviously hit much closer to home on this talk board than I ever imagined it would. Do you all work for the City???

Nope. We just don't take too kindly to people who make completely illogical statements and have bizarre delusions of grandeur. Except for me of course.

Kerry
02-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Nope. We just don't take too kindly to people who make completely illogical statements and have bizarre delusions of grandeur. Except for me of course.

I agree Midtowner. I like your illogical statements and bizzare delusions also. It makes me feel more normal.