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Just the facts
04-03-2013, 02:34 PM
I love the signs, especially the one on the corner just over the sidewalk, and those blue accent lights are great.

Anonymous.
04-03-2013, 03:47 PM
Yea the corner signage is perfect. This will liven up this corner so much. Great design!

betts
04-03-2013, 05:10 PM
I like it and I think it suits Bricktown.

Urbanized
04-03-2013, 06:38 PM
NM, shouldn't post after beers. Yes, the design suits Bricktown very well. It's a shame and an outrage that the design was controversial in any way. That's all I will say about that.

Just the facts
04-03-2013, 06:57 PM
NM, shouldn't post after beers.

You wouldn't be the first person to PM Pete on a Saturday afternoon asking to remove a post.

Eddie1
04-03-2013, 09:55 PM
I agree, I think it is very stylish for the area and will do very well in BT.

Urbanized
04-04-2013, 07:24 AM
You wouldn't be the first person to PM Pete on a Saturday afternoon asking to remove a post.
Skinny Slim's. I blame Skinny Slim's. at least I had the presence of mind to edit before I went to bed.

BDP
04-04-2013, 09:54 AM
It's a shame and an outrage that the design was controversial in any way.

But it didn't always look like that. It wasn't even always all brick. The improved design is actually the result of the design committee risking controversy and standing up for the intent of the standards that now guide development in bricktown. The A/C units still represent a disappointing compromise, but as some other proposed developments under bricktown's review district show, the area is still a long way away from avoiding compromise.

Urbanized
04-04-2013, 10:50 AM
But it didn't always look like that. It wasn't even always all brick. The improved design is actually the result of the design committee risking controversy and standing up for the intent of the standards that now guide development in bricktown. The A/C units still represent a disappointing compromise, but as some other proposed developments under bricktown's review district show, the area is still a long way away from avoiding compromise.
I should have been more specific. I meant it is a shame that the most recent basic design (pitched when the project was revived) was controversial, specifically the comments regarding the entrance. The previous changes demanded regarding brick/EIFS were appropriate, and an example of the committee correctly doing the job it is tasked with. Those design restrictions on EIFS exist already; and if they had not brought it up the committee would have been failing to do its job correctly.

As for the air conditioner issue, while I don't defend their use, I reiterate again that THERE IS NO DESIGN ORDINANCE THAT DISCOURAGES THEM. There WAS no compromise. The developer was not breaking any rules by designing that way. If people want to get this changed, fine. I think it would be something worth pursuing. Those people should take it up with the Planning Department and have the restriction added to the design ordinance for Bricktown rather than just grouse after someone plays within the rules.

But the fact remains that this developer WAS playing within the rules as written. I think it is atrocious policy to write the rules one way and then to make change suggestions/demands at the committee level that extend beyond the group's purview. It is frustrating, expensive, and potentially deal-chilling for developers when the rules are repeatedly and predictably changed in the middle of the game based on whim.

hoya
04-04-2013, 12:44 PM
I agree. We might need to revisit the design rules for Bricktown, but if the developer followed them then there's really no room to complain.

BDP
04-04-2013, 02:32 PM
I think it is atrocious policy to write the rules one way and then to make change suggestions/demands at the committee level that extend beyond the group's purview. It is frustrating, expensive, and potentially deal-chilling for developers when the rules are repeatedly and predictably changed in the middle of the game based on whim.

Variances are granted as well. It works both ways. The reality is that there is pretty much no way to disallow everything that a designer could come up with that may devalue a district. Trust me. Having been part of the process, the minute you think you have eliminated everything, the next proposal is full of junk you never thought of.

You also don't want to make the rules so rigid that everything is indistinguishable. If the rules specifically said something was acceptable, then disallowed in review, then that would obviously be bad policy. But leaving room for fluidity in the process isn't a bad thing. Realistically, it's the only thing you can do. It's tricky and more complex than most people acknowledge.

Either way, once discovered, you are right, policy needs to address it going forward. But it won't stop the next developer from finding a way around it and, ironically, it's usually worse.

The funny thing about this one, is that its new construction. They could pretty much do it any way they wanted and chose the junkier way of doing it.

soonerguru
04-05-2013, 12:16 AM
Honestly, this is the best looking hotel project I've seen in Bricktown. Really adds to the fabric of the neighborhood. Anyone questioning the awnings is off base. Very nice design.

metro
04-05-2013, 09:45 AM
Honestly, this is the best looking hotel project I've seen in Bricktown. Really adds to the fabric of the neighborhood. Anyone questioning the awnings is off base. Very nice design.

Yep, or any new hotel in the urban core period for that matter. Can't count rehabs like Skirvin or Colcord.

Rover
04-05-2013, 11:42 AM
I still think Aloft will be better looking.

I hope this isn't taken wrong as I think this is a great project and will do well, but the design is very bland IMHO. It is a BOX, with some VERY basic elements. The brickwork is basic with a couple of simple features. There is no creativity AT ALL on this building. If the objective is to make it look like a factory, it works. I just happen to think that while we want to preserve the heritage of the original area, producing boring boxes like this, brick clad or not, this is an example of the least creative thing we can do. Sorry, just my opinion.

metro
04-05-2013, 12:35 PM
OK, yeah I'd agree Aloft is slightly better, but this one is nice for an urban warehouse style hotel.

CaptDave
04-05-2013, 12:45 PM
I still think Aloft will be better looking.

I hope this isn't taken wrong as I think this is a great project and will do well, but the design is very bland IMHO. It is a BOX, with some VERY basic elements. The brickwork is basic with a couple of simple features. There is no creativity AT ALL on this building. If the objective is to make it look like a factory, it works. I just happen to think that while we want to preserve the heritage of the original area, producing boring boxes like this, brick clad or not, this is an example of the least creative thing we can do. Sorry, just my opinion.

I agree 100% Aloft will be more interesting; and I agree the window HVAC systems are less than ideal.

But it does a very good job of new construction appearing to be an adapted use project without looking Disneyesque.

Just the facts
04-05-2013, 01:07 PM
I suspect that once it is done most people will find the intersection of Main/Oklahoma more appealing than NE2/Walnut (especially once housing is completed in the Bricktown Merchantile).

LordGerald
04-22-2013, 02:12 PM
I realize that renderings are the best attempt at visualizing what a project should look like, but I'm curious where the power poles and electric lines are in these renderings? If they bury the lines on Main Street, it will create a whole new aesthetic.

hewi
04-22-2013, 03:49 PM
I like it a lot.

A discounted offering of the W in DC. I like it, Alot :o!!!3659

Plutonic Panda
04-22-2013, 03:56 PM
I realize that renderings are the best attempt at visualizing what a project should look like, but I'm curious where the power poles and electric lines are in these renderings? If they bury the lines on Main Street, it will create a whole new aesthetic.I wish they would bury all of the lines. They make the city look cluttered, cost money to rebuild them after storms, drunk/bad drivers, don't have to pay money to cut trees, it would be a win win.

catch22
04-22-2013, 04:01 PM
I like power lines in urban environments in some cases. They can add character and grit to a neighborhood. So much new construction is very sterile. Like a doctor's office, sometimes uncomfortably sterile looking.

http://mattbridgesphoto.com/images/portfolio/13.jpg

Just the facts
04-23-2013, 09:46 PM
I like power lines in urban environments in some cases. They can add character and grit to a neighborhood. So much new construction is very sterile. Like a doctor's office, sometimes uncomfortably sterile looking.

Not to read you mind but is it possible you like the powerlines because they help define the open space turning what would be just an alley into an outdoor hallway? If so, I suspect it isn't the powerlines you like, it is the creation of the outdoor room that appeals to you. If so, there are better ways to accomplish that. Or did I just make up a bunch of BS that is way off base?

Get rid of the apparently uselss powerlines and string a bunch of christmas lights between those poles and the vacant buildings would fill in a heartbeat.

Mississippi Blues
04-23-2013, 10:19 PM
Not to read you mind but is it possible you like the powerlines because they help define the open space turning what would be just an alley into an outdoor hallway? If so, I suspect it isn't the powerlines you like, it is the creation of the outdoor room that appeals to you. If so, there are better ways to accomplish that. Or did I just make up a bunch of BS that is way off base?

Get rid of the apparently uselss powerlines and string a bunch of christmas lights between those poles and the vacant buildings would fill in a heartbeat.

Whether that's catch22's case or not, I think you nailed it for me. I like the feel they give, not necessarily the look.

hoya
04-23-2013, 10:35 PM
I think he's saying that power lines can make a city look organic, like it developed naturally and wasn't built by Disney. It's messy and ugly and real. Like a homeless guy sleeping on a park bench.

Mississippi Blues
04-23-2013, 11:44 PM
I think he's saying that power lines can make a city look organic, like it developed naturally and wasn't built by Disney. It's messy and ugly and real. Like a homeless guy sleeping on a park bench.

I think that's what he's saying as well as that's what most people mean when they like overhead power lines.

Plutonic Panda
04-24-2013, 12:52 AM
I think he's saying that power lines can make a city look organic, like it developed naturally and wasn't built by Disney. It's messy and ugly and real. Like a homeless guy sleeping on a park bench.I like the Disney look.

catch22
04-24-2013, 06:26 AM
No JTF, I like the grit they add.

Just the facts
04-24-2013, 06:55 AM
People pay $90 a day per person to 'people watch' and enjoy the walkable 'streets' in Epcot because it is such a unique experience in America. While I don't have actual figures, it is my personal experience that the percentage of visitors to Epcot who are American is much higher than they are for the other Disney parks. The thing with Epcot though is that its most unique features can be built anywhere and it doesn't even need to be an amusement park with paid admission.

Now back to power lines and the Holiday Inn. I am not a fan of power lines in zone T3 or above, but they do define space when there is nothing else around to do it. However, I do find the single catenary wire of streetcars both appealing and useful (and I mean beyond just supplying power to the motor).

BoulderSooner
04-24-2013, 09:12 AM
People pay $90 a day per person to 'people watch' and enjoy the walkable 'streets' in Epcot because it is such a unique experience in America. While I don't have actual figures, it is my personal experience that the percentage of visitors to Epcot who are American is much higher than they are for the other Disney parks. The thing with Epcot though is that its most unique features can be built anywhere and it doesn't even need to be an amusement park with paid admission.

Now back to power lines and the Holiday Inn. I am not a fan of power lines in zone T3 or above, but they do define space when there is nothing else around to do it. However, I do find the single catenary wire of streetcars both appealing and useful (and I mean beyond just supplying power to the motor).

people don't pay 90 bucks a day to people watch at epcot ..

CaptDave
04-24-2013, 11:02 AM
However, I do find the single catenary wire of streetcars both appealing and useful (and I mean beyond just supplying power to the motor).

Oh lord - don't let some people in OKC hear that. Evidently there are some people complaining about the catenary and are insisting on a wireless system regardless of any additional cost. I agree with you and actually prefer our system is "wired" but put forth the effort to have the catenary supports designed well.

Rover
04-24-2013, 10:04 PM
I think he's saying that power lines can make a city look organic, like it developed naturally and wasn't built by Disney. It's messy and ugly and real. Like a homeless guy sleeping on a park bench.

So, our ambition is that we should have more homeless people and go back to 1920 technology? That would prove we are finally a city?

hoya
04-24-2013, 11:12 PM
Just saying a little clutter is okay. Otherwise you end up living here:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3pe09H7Zn1qi1yhko1_1280.png

"OKC is a perrr-feeeect plaaaace!"

ourulz2000
05-07-2013, 08:31 AM
Update on this? When does construction start?

catch22
05-07-2013, 08:33 AM
They are still doing site work as of yesterday when I drove by. Technically construction has started.

LordGerald
05-07-2013, 09:08 AM
They are still doing site work as of yesterday when I drove by. Technically construction has started.

Yes, it's been an active site, despite the rain last week. Over the past week, they lined the "pit" with aggregate and have been trucking in red dirt and rolling it in layers. Looks like they are laying down the pre-foundation.

Also, the power lines (will be) coming down on the north side of Main Street, so the renderings without the overhead lines are pseudo-correct.

cagoklahoma
06-05-2013, 10:05 AM
FYI, I just looked at this site from my office and it looks like there is a crane and some materials on the building footprint area.

Pete
06-05-2013, 12:41 PM
This photo from the Aloft shows the Holiday Inn site in the upper right corner:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/700_551456211559431_175129584_n.jpg

Praedura
06-05-2013, 02:37 PM
LOVE the line of lush, full trees in that shot.

What is that quonset hut being used for? Will it stay? It's not much of a scenic neighbor for the hotel.

Urbanized
06-05-2013, 02:46 PM
What I saw over there were what appeared to be pieces of a tower crane and also some augers for drilling foundation piers.

Pete
06-05-2013, 02:49 PM
What is that quonset hut being used for? Will it stay? It's not much of a scenic neighbor for the hotel.

That is 123 E. Main; it's a garage and owned by the same group that has the building immediately east:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020025150001vA.jpg

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020025125001tA.jpg

Urbanized
06-05-2013, 02:50 PM
...What is that quonset hut being used for? Will it stay? It's not much of a scenic neighbor for the hotel.
The quonset hut is in daily use by the owner. I think the property owner is an artist or something. It is neat as a pin, and looks pretty cool from the outside, especially when the overhead door is open.

Frankly, I think it is a great neighbor. It is an authentic representative of the historic industrial use of the district, and adds authenticity, just like the still-in-business Federal Corporation across the street. I'm glad to see a few things like this remain, and think it would be regrettable to see Bricktown completely sterilized of its industrial history.

Urbanized
06-05-2013, 02:52 PM
That is 123 E. Main; it's a garage and owned by the same group that has the building immediately east...
Oh really? It must've changed hands. How long have they owned it Pete? Still, I would prefer to see it stay. I think it's a great little structure, especially the facade. But the quonset roof is cool too, and now unique in the district thanks to recent demolitions.

Pete
06-05-2013, 02:57 PM
Jeff Allen's group (Allen Contracting) bought 123 E. Main about a year after 129 (2008 and 2009).

Allen had been quoted as saying they were going to renovate 129 into their new offices, but they recently bought and renovated 516 W. California for that purpose, so I don't know what is going to happen to these two buildings.

http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/13487-129-e-main-sells.html

Urbanized
06-05-2013, 03:02 PM
Hopefully nothing bad.

Praedura
06-05-2013, 03:07 PM
Ah well, it's a completely different story at the street level. Thanks for the pics. That's a fantastic edifice.

I was thinking it was maybe some old garage or parts place that might not even be in use anymore. If it's still active -- that, in combination with the great decorative entrance on the front, make it a quite nice neighbor. Both of those buildings, in fact -- being authentic and historic for the area.

I'm not sure how well the adjacent parking lot works with the new hotel, though.

Pete
06-05-2013, 03:07 PM
The fact that Allen -- a contractor himself -- decided not to renovate that structure scares me a bit.

I'm sure it's a huge mess, as it's an old industrial building that has been sitting vacant for some time.

But, it would be great for lofts with 123 serving as a parking garage.

HangryHippo
06-06-2013, 09:48 AM
Maybe they just didn't have the time to deal with it and needed office space faster? I don't like their building on California, but that's just because it doesn't have much character. It just looks like a suburban office building. Anyway, would be very curious to learn why they didn't actually renovate 129 Main and what the long term plans are. It's a beautiful building.

LakeEffect
06-06-2013, 12:36 PM
The fact that Allen -- a contractor himself -- decided not to renovate that structure scares me a bit.

I'm sure it's a huge mess, as it's an old industrial building that has been sitting vacant for some time.

But, it would be great for lofts with 123 serving as a parking garage.

Jeff is a heavy civil contractor, so he doesn't have too much experience with buildings personally. Their proposed design was quite ambitious, and the BUDC beat the designer over the head over some of the cool rooftop stuff he wanted to do.

HangryHippo
06-06-2013, 12:37 PM
Jeff is a heavy civil contractor, so he doesn't have too much experience with buildings personally. Their proposed design was quite ambitious, and the BUDC beat the designer over the head over some of the cool rooftop stuff he wanted to do.

Are there plans to come back to those designs with the requested changes or will it continue to sit vacant?

LakeEffect
06-06-2013, 02:03 PM
Are there plans to come back to those designs with the requested changes or will it continue to sit vacant?

He'd have to apply all over again. All the approval he did have has now expired.

Praedura
06-09-2013, 11:25 AM
A time-lapse camera was installed to capture the construction of the HIE. So that will be a cool video when all is done.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/861232_536428823044642_1363518486_o.jpg

This photo was taken in early March.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=536428823044642&set=a.499387336748791.109966.490618517625673&type=1

Bellaboo
06-09-2013, 11:31 AM
The camera does not intimidate those two grackles.

Praedura
06-09-2013, 11:37 AM
The camera does not intimidate those two grackles.

I think they were stunned by the heat ray sent their way by the truck. :wink:

Praedura
06-09-2013, 11:45 AM
Btw, this is one of the best (largest) images I've seen of the rendering, from NewcrestImage:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/887212_431987116890631_1572564415_o.jpg

This pretty much matches what the HIE facebook page uses for the cover photo here:

https://www.facebook.com/HIEBricktown

So is this the final design? Or is it still being hashed over?

I remember the conversation about this (much controversy over nothing, apparently). But I don't remember how it ended. I think the rendering above looks awesome.

Pete
06-09-2013, 11:56 AM
Yes, this is the final design.

It was approved by the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

Praedura
06-09-2013, 12:08 PM
Yes, this is the final design.

It was approved by the Bricktown Design Review Committee.

Kewl! I like it.

ljbab728
06-09-2013, 07:44 PM
From that picture it appears there may be an outdoor dining area. I don't remember that being mentioned before. Does anyone know if that's correct?

catch22
06-09-2013, 07:48 PM
I remember it from previous renderings.

Pete
06-09-2013, 07:48 PM
From that picture it appears there may be an outdoor dining area. I don't remember that being mentioned before. Does anyone know if that's correct?

I believe it will just be an outdoor sitting area / patio, as there is not a full restaurant in this project.

ljbab728
06-09-2013, 07:52 PM
I believe it will just be an outdoor sitting area / patio, as there is not a full restaurant in this project.

Well, I guess people can brown bag it then. LOL