Divorce is on the rise in Oklahoma County, and it is about time that parents, lawyers, judges, family/marriage counselors, ministers, teachers, state legislatures, and social workers STOP ignoring that every child has a right to be with both fit parents. Can you hug your child today?

YouTube - Divorce affects children! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld9TNx3ig1w&feature=related)

It amazes me how careless people are when it comes to sex. You should not have a child until your married. The technology is out there to stop conception, for the love of Pete use it.

I think people get married to early in general in America. They find someone fall in love and run off to the chapel. Most people do not wait until the honeymoon is over in the boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.

Before a person gets married they should ask themself two questions. Is this someone I could spend the rest my life with in a loving relationship? Have I seen this person in every aspect of their personality? If you have nothing but good things to say about your other half, you are not ready to get married let alone have children.

In a perfect world, but come on, people make mistakes!

I have a friend who ended up getting pregnant with a guy who she thought was great...then he turned on her and it's been horrible ever since. People can hide things about themselves, you know. And my heart aches for her knowing that people pass judgment on her every day because those people think they are somehow better than her, when in fact their judgment makes them much more ugly than my friend.

It could have happened to me. Contraception is never 100% perfect.

Children deserve to be in a loving family, and I personally don't think that a family has to be the mom, dad, 2 kids, dog, picket fence fantasy. Sometimes it's grandparents, sometimes it's an aunt/uncle thing, sometimes step-parents. Anyone can make up a family.

bandnerd...I have always believed that people do not make "mistakes" as often as it is reported in the newspaper and tabloids and on television, or as might so conveniently be used when one gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar. How often have we read or heard someone say..."I wasn't thinking. I just made a mistake."

A mistake is what happens when we balance our checkbooks at the end of each month. People do however, for one of a variety reasons, make "poor decisions."

Rational decisions always have logical/rational consequences/results. Likewise, irrational choices/decisions result in logical and even pre-determined or expected consequences.

I won't deny that my friend made a poor decision...but when one is using contraception and still gets pregnant, well, it happens.

I'm also not going to pretend that I'm somehow better than someone because they made a poor decision. I've made poor decisions, too. They just didn't happen to result in a child.

bandnerd...I have made sooooo many bad decisions in my life, even when, at the time, I thought I was making the right decision. Fortunately, we can learn from it.

And yes, you are correct in saying that some folks believe they are better than others. I would love to know what folks in a grocery store are thinking when they see a Mom coming down the aisle with one child in cart, another in a stroller, and two tagging behind.

Too often, what we say we believe and what we think, say, or do are not the same things.

oneforone...I agree with you to a certain extent. Sometimes, other people, other than the natural parents, can and do make for a better family.

In a perfect world...well, no sense in bringing that up since we do not live in a perfect world.

If both parents are fit, then a child has every right to be loved, nurtured, supported, raised, and taught by both parents.

Neither one of my natural parents were fit to "bring me up" in the world. Consequently, I lived in foster homes most of my young life. Out of the 13 foster homes I lived in, 1 was excellent, 1 was very good, and the others ought to have been investigated by the Department of Labor.

All I am trying to say in this Forum, is give children a chance...to be loved by both parents...and that is something even the Department of Human Services could embrace if they would recognize and enforce the rights of all children and their non-custodial parent.

So what do you suggest?

Making two people that can't stand each other stay together for the sake of a third, just because that third one is a child?

Oh GAWD...God No! The parents divorce one another, not their child(ren). Unfortunately, some parents do seem to "disconnect" from their children following divorce. There are a number of reasons given for this. However, in most cases, parents typically remain within the same community.

States, by virtue of the many statutes they have on the books, are rightly justified in ensuring that children continue to receive financial support from both parents after a seperation and breakup of the family. Children ought not to become "dependents" of the State. Yet, once the appropriate Court Orders are in place to ensure continued financial support, very little is done beyond that to ensure continued, uninterrupted physical contact with the parent that no longer lives in the "marital" home.

Sure, there is a mechanism in place to try to enforce ones "visitation" rights in Oklahoma County. But, the Courts look at this in much the same way they do the "blue" laws (it is against the law to eat a vanilla ice cream cone on the sidewalk, in front of a Church, on Sundays). The law is not enforced.

And who suffers...the child.

I wish people would wait to really get to know someone before they risk bringing a child into this world. If you've only known someone six months, you don't know them. If you don't know their family, you don't know what you (and your child) are getting in to. If they have a wacky family, that doesn't mean your prospective Significant Other is wacky, but it increases the odds (you can also find a wack who springs from a nice family but we're talking odds, here). Hopping into a serious relationship within weeks (days, months) is begging for a disaster. If they aren't working (or have a history of not working); if they are constantly "sick" (think "I don't want to go to work or school, I get attention when I am sick, I like prescription drugs - NOT stuff like MS or malaria); if they have to "borrow" money from you to pay their bills; if your friend with the most common sense has a bad feeling; if they have been through one relationship after another; if they hate their exes; if they are mean to wait staff; if they chronically have financial problems or their credit is shot; if they make you feel like the only person who understands and loves them; if they are always wanting to get high or drunk; if they have a suspended license; if they have a history of domestic violence or petty crime (felonies go without saying); if you are pushing down a feeling in your gut that this is trouble - think long and hard. Then longer and harder. If their explanations for any of these things are sort of complicated and don't exactly make sense, or don't check out run (and DO verify). You don't need the drama and your child, or child to be, deserves better. I work with children in the midst of custody disputes. It is hell on earth.

As for failed birth control - I also suspect that there are a lot fewer failures than reported - most of the time birth control wasn't used property "just this once" and people lie to save face. We intend the predictable consequences of our actions. Absent infertility, unprotected sex generally results in pregnancy, sooner or later. If you have unprotected sex, you've chosen pregnancy. We're all grownups, here.

Sure, there is a mechanism in place to try to enforce ones "visitation" rights in Oklahoma County. But, the Courts look at this in much the same way they do the "blue" laws (it is against the law to eat a vanilla ice cream cone on the sidewalk, in front of a Church, on Sundays). The law is not enforced.

And who suffers...the child.

Oh bullcrap. Hire a lawyer, get them to enforce your visitation rights. Sure, you might have to pony up some cash, work a second job, or something distasteful, but if that's what it takes to have your visitation enforced, then do it.

Bellyaching about Oklahoma County not enforcing these statutes on its own isn't going to do you anything at all.

For what you spent on that mail out, you could probably have retained an attorney.

Oh bullcrap. Hire a lawyer, get them to enforce your visitation rights. Sure, you might have to pony up some cash, work a second job, or something distasteful, but if that's what it takes to have your visitation enforced, then do it.

Bellyaching about Oklahoma County not enforcing these statutes on its own isn't going to do you anything at all.

For what you spent on that mail out, you could probably have retained an attorney.

Ya gotta love straight talking.

Midtowner...FYI, I did in fact retain a local lawyer in the Summer of2006 (Prior to doing this I filed a "Motion to Enforce Visitation" with the Court. The Judge that heard the matter NEVER made a final decision on my motion. The entire proceeding is currently under review by the Oklahoma Council on Judicial Complaints). I gave him my money and he gave me zilch. He did absolutely nothing! He never even filed a "Notice of Appearance" with the Court. He would not return my telephone calls, nor did he ever respond to a single letter, not even certified letters, which he refused to accept.

When I checked the OSCN I discovered that this lawyer had only one other case (Divorce Without Minor Children) that was pending.

I ended up dismissing him (August 2007) and filed a grievance with the Oklahoma Bar. It took me just a little over 3 months to get my legal files back from him. He still owes me a refund for non-performance. He offered to settle to avoid a formal investigation by the Bar. If he had been a Doctor he would have been called a "quack."

I then set out to find another lawyer. One wanted to call in "expert" witnesses that would have cost me $3,000-$4,000 for "boilerplate" testimony. Another attorney wanted more than I was able to pay. And still another declined to take my case because DHS was involved, whom the lawyer proclaimed as "worthless." As of right now I do not have an attorney because of medical bills.

As for working a "second job," I had to resign from my job back in October of last year due to health problems. And no, I am not receiving disability, worker's comp, or unemployment.

With regards to the "mail out," it cost me a couple of hundred dollars. And as a student of the law, I am sure even you would concede that is not enough to retain an attorney, let alone cover the cost of a "billed" 10 minute telephone conversation with one's legal counsel.

"Bellyaching?" Call it what you want. I am simply sharing, and I guess that might make me a target for criticism. Not a problem...I welcome all inputs. In the meantime...

Know anyone that will do pro bono work?
____________________

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government; whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied upon to set them to rights. ---THOMAS JEFFERSON

I don't know if your legal aide will help. Sorry you ran into an attorney that didn't deliver. Unfortunately, that happens.

It is going to cost you to have an attorney for this type of case, sounds like. If you are talking experts and DHS involvement, you have an uphill climb. I personally wouldn't take a case like that unless the party was willing to spend a ton of money on discovery and experts, upfront. The reason is not to drive up costs, rather, it is because without that, you might not have a chance at all. I'd feel like I was robbing my client to accept the case, plus, I'd feel like I would be inadequate counsel if I didn't bring in experts and engage in discovery. Not all cases need that but some really do.

For these types of cases, counsel can be very helpful but I'd go with someone who is familiar with C & V cases. Also be careful about the temperament of the attorney in question. An attorney whose personality might be perfect for a car crash case might not work as well with a domestic case. An attorney with a good reputation in the court in question is invaluable.

I recently was guardian ad litem in a C & V case where both parties were represented by excellent counsel. On the eve of the trial, they both fired their attorneys and it was just left with them and me. Oh joy. One of the parents completely dominated the other parent and anyone with half a brain could see trouble. They reached an agreement and it was like pulling teeth to get them to tweak it to make it workable (the dominate parent was a pain to work with and, I suspect, a sociopath). I get calls all the time from the weaker parent seeking legal advice. He is so overrun it is sad. I can't give him legal advice. Chaps like that need their own attorney.

bandnerd...I have always believed that people do not make "mistakes" as often as it is reported in the newspaper and tabloids and on television, or as might so conveniently be used when one gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar. How often have we read or heard someone say..."I wasn't thinking. I just made a mistake."

A mistake is what happens when we balance our checkbooks at the end of each month. People do however, for one of a variety reasons, make "poor decisions."

Rational decisions always have logical/rational consequences/results. Likewise, irrational choices/decisions result in logical and even pre-determined or expected consequences.
Couldn't a "poor decision" also be considered a "mistake"?

mis·take http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fmistake) /mɪˈsteɪk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mi-steyk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -took, -tak·en, -tak·ing.

–noun
1.an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.
2.a misunderstanding or misconception. –verb (used with object)
3.to regard or identify wrongly as something or someone else: I mistook him for the mayor.
4.to understand, interpret, or evaluate wrongly; misunderstand; misinterpret.

–verb (used without object)
5.to be in error.
I certainly have made plenty of "poor decisions" that I certainly consider "mistakes" on my part. That doesn't mean I get a free do-over; on the contrary, I have paid for all of my mistakes/poor decisions. But making poor decisions doesn't disqualify those decisions as mistakes.

Know anyone that will do pro bono work?

Legal Aid.

And it's not like kids don't have any control at all.

vJCRNXUngAM

I can hug my child, Did you hug yours? Every child has the right to be in a safe, loving home. If it is one parent or two, I don't see the difference. I know single parents, men and women who do more for their kids then marriend parents do.

Parenthood is hard and single parents have the attendant difficulties that come with one person having to do the work of two, usually less money, less energy, more obligations, complicated living arrangments (like living with parents or wondering if they should marry or move in with someone else) etc. If you've got married couples who aren't doing better than a single parent, I think the married couple is probably doing a crappy job - or the single parent is a multi millionaire with a saintly disposition, no more than a part time job and lots more help that the average Joe has access to. Raising a child is exhausting, expensive, heart breaking, exhilarating and time consuming. Multiple children make it all the more difficult.

Single parents can be absolutely wonderful parents but it is so hard. And there are things a mother can model that a father can't, and vice versa. Sure, you can supplement with uncles, aunts, grandparents of the opposite sex, etc., but it takes a lot of work and none of it happens on its own. That doesn't mean that a child of a single parent can't have a fabulous life - but it increases the odds against it. You need to have a single parent practically put their lives on hold to meet all the child's BASIC needs and, frankly, that probably isn't really good for kids. Kids need to be part of a household, not the center. But single parents typically have to keep the kids front row center just to get the basics covered. I think kids need every advantage they can get and the more people who dearly love them, who would die for them, sacrifice for them, put them first, the better. Parents tend to do that. Others, not so likely. Grandparents would give all they've got but should be allowed to be grandparents. Every child deserves grandparents to dote on them and offer a prospective that parents in the trenches are likely to overlook. God bless the grandparents who help their grown child get back on their feet and are ready as backup when needed.

Is a bad marriage worse - sometimes. Depends on how bad.

Folks are quick to offer reassurances that a single parent can do a great job and I understand why they do that. But don't think that it just works out that way. Platitudes don't take the place of the hard, hard work that is it to be a good single parent. If someone is willing and able to do that, they'll earn their halo. But obviously, you wouldn't wish a hard life on your child - and single parenthood leads down that road more often than not. The stats are clear and consistent that children without marriage is the single greatest cause of poverty for women and children. In many cases think bad neighborhoods, two jobs, not being able to go to parent/teacher conferences during the school day, doctor's appointments after a long day's work, having someone else fetch your child from school when he/she is sick - you get the picture.

Just my thoughts.

Oh GAWD the smell - that video . . . OH GOD!!!!!!!

Oh GAWD the smell - that video . . . OH GOD!!!!!!!


I concur, Lord above, oh Gawd ....whatever will we do with you?