address=131 Dean A McGee (http://goo.gl/maps/2mYEU)
owner=Judy Hatfield
sq. feet=51,702
acerage=.31
19 apartments

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/carnegiewiki1.jpg
Information & Latest News
3/21/14: Carnegie on track for May opening (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-carnegie-centre-on-track-for-may-opening/article/3945394)
3/11/14: Update from Judy Hatfield; retail tenants revealed (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Carnegie%20Centre&page=10#post758315)
8/9/12: Library renovation into housing set to begin (http://newsok.com/library-renovation-into-housing-set-to-begin/article/3699243)
11/30/11: Conversion back on track (http://newsok.com/conversion-of-oklahoma-citys-old-downtown-library-to-housing-is-back-on-track/article/3627711)
12/21/07: Renovations booked for former library (http://newsok.com/article/3183391)
Links
Carnegie Centre website (http://www.carnegieokc.com/)
Downtown Housing Summary
Urban Project Summary
County Assessor Record (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R010012680)
Abandoned Oklahoma (http://www.abandonedok.com/carnegie-library/)
Gallery

Gz1-kvvSkgg

Norman developer blowing dust off of old downtown OKC library
The Journal Record
December 21, 2007

http://journalrecord.com/_images/articles/t_labslibrary%20rendering.jpg
This rendering shows the intended outcome of a $10 million renovation of the old downtown Oklahoma City library. Dubbed the Carnegie Centre, the building’s development plan was approved Thursday by the Downtown Design Review Committee. Courtesy rendering



OKLAHOMA CITY – Judy Hatfield doesn’t look much like a librarian. Likewise, when she finishes renovating the old downtown Oklahoma City library building it won’t look much like a library.

What it will shape up as over the next few years is a condo, office and retail project with a sleek glass and steel exterior at 132 Dean A. McGee Ave. Hatfield estimates the project will run more than $10 million for the renovations.

The building was built in 1951 on the former site of the city’s first library. It has been vacant since 2004 when the Ronald J. Norick Downtown Library was completed.

Hatfield, principal of Norman-based Equity Realty, received approval for her plan Thursday at the Downtown Design Review Committee meeting. Dubbed the Carnegie Centre, Hatfield began the process several years ago to acquire the library and in January the City of Oklahoma City agreed to sell her the building for $775,000. Hatfield said the deal is expected to close next month. At that point she said asbestos abatement will begin immediately followed by demolition and the start of construction.

The project is set for completion in early 2009. One of the terms of the sale was the city’s commitment to clean up the building and remove old library shelving. Hatfield said she is pleased with the city’s cleanup efforts.“Everything we’ve asked them to do that we thought was fair they’ve done,” Hatfield said.

The plan calls for 18 condominiums with five one-bedroom units and four two-bedroom units on each of the third and fourth floors. The second level will be secured parking and the first floor will house retail space. Hatfield said a local bank has signed a letter of intent to occupy some of the first floor space. The lower level will be designed for nine office condos and a fitness center. Hatfield said all of the spaces will likely start at about $155,000 and go up to $750,000.

Beck Design has been selected as the architect for the project and the construction work will be completed by Nabholz as well as Hatfield’s sons Dak and Dray Hatfield.

Brett Hamm, president of Downtown OKC Inc., said the project is impressive and will make good use of an old building in the core of downtown.“This is exactly what we want to see and what we want to encourage in downtown is taking what may have wound up as unusable space or Class C office space and convert that to residential and mixed use,” Hamm said. “That’s exactly what the Carnegie offers.”

Now that the project has passed the Downtown Design board the real work can begin on Hatfield’s vision to breathe new life into the old library. “We’ve spent many, many hours because we want it to be right,” she said. “We want it to fit, we want everybody to be proud of it and we want it to be another crown jewel in downtown, but it’s going to be a lot of hard work.”

Impressive transition from the crap look it was before. HUGE High-5.

http://olive.newsok.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=DOK/2007/12/21/34/Img/Pc0340600.jpg

http://olive.newsok.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=DOK/2007/12/21/34/Img/Pc0340700.jpg

That is crazy.. That black car in that render looks just like my car... How odd...

nice, get er dun!

I thought that huge, ugly, basically windowless tower was part of the library building too...is it not?

I thought that huge, ugly, basically windowless tower was part of the library building too...is it not?

Nope, at&t.

Not bad!

That is crazy.. That black car in that render looks just like my car... How odd...

Your car is pixelated and has paint covering the windshield?

WEIRD!



That library looks pretty cool too.

I think that it was always assumed that AT&T or someone else who may work with AT&T would want to buy the old library due to its proximity to AT&T (and the fact that it barely has windows so in theory it would be easy to keep cool if a good AC system was in place.

They are going to have to do a lot of work inside that building though...and looks like they will actually put windows on floors on the west side besides the 4th floor (no other floors have windows on that side).

Things seem to be moving along. I think work should begin very soon.

Has anyone been by lately? This is the one project I always forget to drive by when in this part of downtown.

i drove by, didn't see much goin on.... saw the rendering on the outside, thats about it, but that was a few weeks ago

Here's a video interview with Judy Hatfield from Newsok.com:

NewsOK.tv (http://www.newsok.tv/?titleID=1726829575)

Here's the crux:

1. Floors 3 & 4 will offer about 24 residential condos ($275K for 800 sq. ft.!!!)
2. Basement will feature office space for sale
3. First floor will have retail
4. Second floor will have parking (one space for each residential unit)
5. Roof will be a shaded patio.
6. Have pre-sold a few units but need to sell at least seven to start construction

You can see floorplans, pricing and more here:

Equity Realty :: Carnegie Centre (http://www.equityrealty.net/carnegie.aspx)

Looks like these are about $200 to $340 a square foot, which is not dissimilar to the other nearby lofts and townhouses.

Looks like these are about $200 to $340 a square foot, which is not dissimilar to the other nearby lofts and townhouses.

:(

Too rich for my blood.

The Lofts at Maywood are about $220 per sq. ft., Central Avenue Villas are about $230 and Carnegie Center condos are all over $300 per sq. ft.; some close to $350. PLUS, they plan to charge $37,500 per parking space.

Hope they sell them but this project was announced 9 months ago and has only pre-sold a couple of units.

It's a nice location but the building is only 4 floors in the middle of taller structures, which means you don't have much of a view.

Those condo prices are laughable. I will be extremely shocked if they sell. If the market will support such prices, why haven't we seen a new-construction high rise condo tower?

It's way too ugly to be the most expensive condo project downtown.

I really like what they are trying to do, with retail on the ground floor and parking above, then the condos, all with balconies and access to the roof-top patio.

But that's just too much money at this point. Especially since there are few windows in that building -- most of the rooms won't get any natural light.

I think they would sell if they'd drop prices down to the $225 per square foot range, inclusive of a parking space.

When I talked to Ms Hatfield during the dowtown living tour I got the impression that a potential buyer was buying the interior box that would later have to be finished by the homeowner. It was very expensive if you factor in the cost of finishing the space.

Well that makes it even more ridiculous.

When downtown developers run out of these "money is no object" folks, they're going to be in for a rude awakening. This has to be a pretty limited market.

Carnegie construction may start in October
Oklahoman

Conversion of the former downtown library at Dean A. McGee and Robinson avenues into the Carnegie Centre condominiums, offices and retail complex is on track to begin next month, developer Judy Hatfield said Tuesday.

Hatfield said that because of tightening in the financing market, she had to presell eight of the 18 residential units before beginning the $10 million renovation. Hatfield said she has presold two units and is negotiating three more sales.

"I think we'll have enough sold that we can start by the end of this month," Hatfield said. "That puts up opening by fall of next year."

Hatfield said the building permit is ready, and the only code issues involve going to court to allow for the occupants to own the residential balconies instead of the balconies being subject to revocable permits. Hatfield said she also has an arrangement with Republic Bank of Norman to carry buyers in-house at a 6.25 percent rate, 90 percent, 25-year amortized loan.

"They have the appraisals, they know the project," Hatfield said. "They're more familiar with it than the buyers, which is a heck of a concept."

For more information about Carnegie Centre, go to Equity Realty :: Main (http://www.equityrealty.net).

From Staff Reports

Hope it happens! I really do like the design of the project and it looks like they are trying to do things the right way.

There is a new website and we are working on more marketing material's now. This is going to be an amazing project and just one more reason why OKC rocks! http://www.carnegieokc.com/

We are working up a wicked 3d 360 project.

I wish them the best, but all the units listed on realtor.com are pushing $300 per square foot.

I am sorry but this place is way overpriced. Is this Oklahoma City or LA? $650,000 for a 1bed 1bath? No pool? TheCentennial has a rooftop pool and has a 1 bed listed for $307,000 on mlsgateway.com. What is the deal? If I am missing something, please do tell.

I would like to see someone knowledgeable address what it actually costs to build condos and townhouses downtown. Obviously you can put a lot more houses/units per square foot of land, but does the land cost considerably more per square foot? How about parking? How much does it generally add per square foot to do onsite parking? How about steel or build-block construction? How much more per square foot does it cost over 2 x 4s?

Does it simply cost more per square foot to build this type of housing in this location? In my personal experience, in bigger cities, if you want to live near the CBD, you pay. Renovated or higher end materials and you pay more. Are people here being unreasonable in demanding costs to approximate wooden houses in mid to lower end suburbs, or are developers inflating prices?

I'll bet these old buildings cost a bunch due to the asbestos and other environmental remediation requirements.

It always costs more to renovate than to build new.

Of course, that doesn't explain why all the new construction is so expensive.

I hope they make a go of the project... Once again we are our own worst detractors. If executive level downtown housing is wanted this looks like a nice presentation..... Note in alot of areas around the country $250 a sq. ft. cost is considered to be affordable housing. This may not be where the majority in Oklahoma City think that the housing market is... but lets see what time will tell.

Condos in brand new buildings will full amenities (and often with great views) go for about $350-450 a square foot in downtown L.A.; while homes are about 4 to 5 times more expensive here.

Something is very wrong with these price points in downtown OKC.

Condos in brand new buildings will full amenities (and often with great views) go for about $350-450 a square foot in downtown L.A.; while homes are about 4 to 5 times more expensive here.

Something is very wrong with these price points in downtown OKC.

That may be, but could it be land prices for homes in California cause homes to be more expensive? Could it simply be convention that houses sell for more than condos in LA? It's not at all unusual to pay $1,000 a square foot for a condo in NYC, and yet I know that housing in Westchester county is frequently half that. A new house in Nichols Hills pre recession would cost about $350 to $400 a square foot, and a lot of that difference in price relative to other OKC developments was related to the cost of land. However, at least in the past, codes in Nichols Hills required 2 x 6 construction instead of 2 x 4s. Roofing materials are usually much higher quality than less expensive developments.

The problem is, it's very difficult to tease out what makes things cost what they do. The quality of materials in some of the downtown housing is comparable to what you get in Nichols Hills, and yet it's half to 40% of the cost. Build-block construction is far more expensive than even 2 x 6 construction. So, I think we should be careful before assuming that there are unreasonable markups.

Perhaps retrofitting an old building like the Carnegie, creating windows where there were none, adding parking access, etc, is a very expensive prospect. I don't know.

If we demand cheaper housing, we may get cheaply built housing. I think there's not enough data to make assumptions at this point in time.

I believe you can renovate almost any building in downtown for less than $120 per square foot. So it boils down to how much per foot did they pay for the building, their carrying costs during construction and sales period and how much profit that the owner needs to cover the risk. Interest, insurance and taxes on a project that can easily take up to three years from purchase to sell out can easily add up to $35 per square foot in carrying costs.

Is this back on? I walked by here and noticed a sign up advertising it. Can't imagine paying half a million bucks for 2,095 sq ft. This is the central problem associated with downtown housing. It doesn't make any economic sense to spend Chicago style money in OKC.

I noticed this thread and seen that it's been awhile since anyone has commented except the last reply. I'm interested if the project has been completed or has even started yet. I live in New York temporarily so I can't just drive by to check it out.

I drive by it daily and and haven't noticed any change...of course I only get a couple seconds view at the end of the day.

I noticed this thread and seen that it's been awhile since anyone has commented except the last reply. I'm interested if the project has been completed or has even started yet. I live in New York temporarily so I can't just drive by to check it out.

From the outside it doesn't appear that anything at all has happened. Like I said, I just noticed that the sign was there today (a small banner sign with some contact info). I didn't notice it yesterday when I strolled by.

That sux. I wonder if there's a website where we can track the progress???

Those units have been listed on the MLS for quite some time, ranging from $227K to $635K:

73102 real estate & 73102 homes for sale | Single family homes,Condos,Townhomes,Co-ops - REALTOR.com® (http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Oklahoma-City_OK/73102?pgsz=2)

The prices don't seem that bad to me at all. A two bed downtown for $227K? Maybe I'm too used to Toronto prices, but that looks good.

In lies the problem with downtown OKC living....developers are expecting people here to pay prices to live downtown that one would expect in a larger city. Here, there just isn't any reason to pay it. It's not like we're in Chicago where if you live downtown, you have access to soooo many things. In OKC you can live a little outside of downtown, get more space for the buck, and then only drive 10 minutes. It's like boutique hotels...there are only so many people willing to pay for that before you start having to look at normal people prices and build the holiday inn.

We need some normal downtown living available in the 1k a month range for a 2 bd....rent, not own. If someone would do that, you'd fill that sucker up fast, then there would be more people demanind services like a grocery store. That spurs that development, which spurs more demand to live downtown, etc. You just can't do it all with upscale. Hell, how many of these "upscale" places are mostly empty?? United Founders, Classen, Park Harvey, etc. They aren't exactlly making even a buck.

How much are the Park Harvey units? Are they apartments or condos? Anyone know?

From what I understand from talking to Judy last year on the Downtown Living Tour, they are letting owners do their own buildout. They did have one model semi/done, from the outside they don't look that nice, but the ones facing west have one of the best views in all of downtown.

from the outside they don't look that nice

New glass ala United Founder's Tower would help.

I'm going to be dead before this project begins.

Hell, how many of these "upscale" places are mostly empty?? United Founders, Classen, Park Harvey, etc. They aren't exactlly making even a buck.

Park Harvey is not very upscale, and it full or mostly full. Far from "mostly empty". I'd say it is the most successful downtown housing so far, because it's for RENT. The Classen is doing much better as well since it switched to for-lease.

Go check out how many units are empty in these places at night. They turn lights on to make them look like they have tenents in units that doesn't have anyone in them.

I lived at the Park Harvey. I can assure you it's nearly full.

Yeah, The Classen is definitely not "mostly empty" either. Park Harvey and The Montgomery are also two successful for-rent Tanenbaum projects. One thing that pisses me off about Tanenbaum though is that they stopped doing downtown projects and focused everything on "The Lincoln at 'Central' Park" and started marketing it as downtown. Now there are people who lease apartments there because they legitimately think they're "downtown." I even have a good friend who was in the middle of moving to Deep Deuce but after crappy customer service decided on "The Lincoln at 'Central' Park" for his "downtown apartment.

That just shows you how ridiculous the demand is for downtown apartments, and how there really is NOTHING easily available downtown. People are moving to far NE OKC (like 6000 area of Lincoln Blvd) as downtown rental overflow. How pathetic is that? And the schmucks at Gardner-Tanenbaum are cashing in on the downtown demand simply by doing another damn suburban cookie cutter apartment complex in a really bizarre area of town on the way to the burbs.

Also, the Sieber has a WAITING LIST. Again, it's for rent. Starting to see a pattern, naysayers?

[QUOTE=Spartan;320871]Now there are people who lease apartments there because they legitimately think they're "downtown." I even have a good friend who was in the middle of moving to Deep Deuce but after crappy customer service decided on "The Lincoln at 'Central' Park" for his "downtown apartment./QUOTE]

Spartan, lol, I think I would wonder about a friend or anyone who moved into The Lincoln and thought they were downtown even if they were unhappy about customer service. Surely they would open their eyes and look around a little first.

It's a lot more difficult to get into a downtown rental unit than people realize. The difficulty is primarily brought on by an extremely tight market that is inflexible and saturated with demand instead of availability.

And yeah, I could have found a unit for my friend but he did it on his own which makes it more "his" apartment.. plus, they market those Lincoln apartments really well. Sometimes marketing is everything. For people who don't know every nook and cranny of downtown like a small group of us here on this forum, marketing is going to influence someone's choice more than you'd realize..

I'd be interested to see how the Legacy apts are doing. Every time I drive by there's someone strolling on the sidewalk or walking a dog, which you never used to see downtown. I'd also be interested in finding out if Deep Deuce is so packed with prospective renters that they decided they don't need customer service. Is The Aberdeen still doing well now that better options are available? 5th Avenue Apartments (the white tower overlooking the Memorial)? How are all the smaller MidTown lofts (Garage Lofts, 5th Ave Lofts, etc..) doing? And so on.. I'd bet ALL of the rental complexes downtown are just doing awesome.

Empty units in the J-Park area don't last long...

From what I understand from talking to Judy last year on the Downtown Living Tour, they are letting owners do their own buildout. They did have one model semi/done, from the outside they don't look that nice, but the ones facing west have one of the best views in all of downtown.

Are you talking about Carnegie? It is only 4 floors so for the most part I think the west side just looks out onto other buildings - the building is short enough that there isn't a huge "view" from any side.

It's a lot more difficult to get into a downtown rental unit than people realize. The difficulty is primarily brought on by an extremely tight market that is inflexible and saturated with demand instead of availability.

And yeah, I could have found a unit for my friend but he did it on his own which makes it more "his" apartment.. plus, they market those Lincoln apartments really well. Sometimes marketing is everything. For people who don't know every nook and cranny of downtown like a small group of us here on this forum, marketing is going to influence someone's choice more than you'd realize..

I'd be interested to see how the Legacy apts are doing. Every time I drive by there's someone strolling on the sidewalk or walking a dog, which you never used to see downtown. I'd also be interested in finding out if Deep Deuce is so packed with prospective renters that they decided they don't need customer service. Is The Aberdeen still doing well now that better options are available? 5th Avenue Apartments (the white tower overlooking the Memorial)? How are all the smaller MidTown lofts (Garage Lofts, 5th Ave Lofts, etc..) doing? And so on.. I'd bet ALL of the rental complexes downtown are just doing awesome.

I'm fixing to sell my DT condo, so I looked at the Aberdeen online this weekend, it didn't have very good reviews at all. I called Classen Tower and supposively, they only had one unit left for rent and it was $1900/mo and it was "going to be leased today," the guy said. He claimed they were 99% full and that one would be the 100%.


Are you talking about Carnegie? It is only 4 floors so for the most part I think the west side just looks out onto other buildings - the building is short enough that there isn't a huge "view" from any side.


Yes, I've been in it, it has a cool view of the fresco's on the old FDIC building, as well you can see above the building in question, because they are short as you mentioned.

That's awesome for The Classen, which I admit, was having problems two years ago when it first came online as condo. It shows you how incredibly strong the rental market is in downtown.

I've heard nothing but bad things about The Aberdeen.

Yeah, I wish I could find a condo for sale at The Classen, and was bummed to read all the negative reviews about the Aberdeen, so much potential.