See Salt Lake Tribune - Beautified Oklahoma City braces for 100th birthday (http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7162517)

Excerpts:


For years, cross-country drivers pulling into Oklahoma City ("OKC") found a flat, sprawling, dead-quiet city with three crisscrossing interstates begging to take you elsewhere. Pretty? No, a plain Jane at best.

But that was then. Now, as Oklahoma braces for its 100th birthday this November, its capital is strutting about a stunning makeover. After the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building downtown, the city surprisingly voted in an enormous sales tax, which has ushered on more than $2 billion in public/private projects.

Among the enhancements are a new dome atop the long-headless capitol building, a new civic center, library and history museum, and an American Indian museum set to open by 2009. The city finally filled the North Canadian River too. "It was famous," locals like to say, "because it had to be mowed."

I know, because I was a local once. When I worked downtown in the early '90s, you tore out at 5 p.m. sharp. Now many locals come then - for dinner and drinks, NBA games, Stones concerts, foreign films, rock climbing in a converted grain silo, or to feed Fido in new loft apartments on Bricktown's mile-long canal.

that was a good article.

There is something really sweet about the term 'Beautified Oklahoma'... that's a nice article.

Being downtown last night and today.. it was beautiful. Clean, modern, nice.

We're doing OK - OK.

I don't think the Colcord is art deco...

yep, that was a nice article.

What's interesting is, OKC is actually much bigger than SLC yet they are a bit ahead in terms of urban development. SLC never lost their urban inner city fabric, despite being more ultra-conservative and much smaller than OKC or our bible-belt sister to the NE. But yes, it was nice that they see OKC as definitely a peer one-team major-league city (at current) and a nice developing urban fabric.

I've always said that OKC is the next Portland with SLC attributes, and it seems like others are starting to see that as well.

Maybe if we all had magic underwear too...

The only reason Salt Lake is ahead of us is because of winter tourism.

My brother lives in Salt Lake as did my mom during her last years, so I've visited there several times. At first apprehensive, I became quite a fan of its downtown which is beautiful and gorgeous, both the old and the new ... retail, hotels, businesses, parks all nicely blend together. And, to be sure, it doesn't hurt at all to be sitting at the base of the Wasatch mountains on the west side and have Park City an such places only a half hour away. It also has a local rail transit system which is pretty nice. It has a great airport and interstate highway system. The city is clean and beautiful. If I sound like a Salt Lake City commercial, I guess that I am!

My brother lives in Salt Lake as did my mom during her last years, so I've visited there several times. At first apprehensive, I became quite a fan of its downtown which is beautiful and gorgeous, both the old and the new ... retail, hotels, businesses, parks all nicely blend together. And, to be sure, it doesn't hurt at all to be sitting at the base of the Wasatch mountains on the west side and have Park City an such places only a half hour away. It also has a local rail transit system which is pretty nice. It has a great airport and interstate highway system. The city is clean and beautiful. If I sound like a Salt Lake City commercial, I guess that I am!

I'll second that. I've been there a couple of times and it's a very clean and nice city.

You must have only liked it because of the winter tourism, though.

Nope it was all the women with loose morals that I found to be so refreshing. Such a cesspool of debauchery I tell you. It was like a city full of Pam Andersons.

Wearing winter attire, of course.

I should also add that the Salt Lake Tribune, Salt Lake Tribune - Salt Lake Tribune Home Page (http://www.sltrib.com/) , is one of the nicer newspapers I've seen ... comprehensive & thorough articles with both a local and national focus ... I don't travel that much but when I do I always enjoy reading their newspapers and this one is very nice. There is a another SLC daily competitor (forget the name) which is not bad, either.

My brother lives in Salt Lake as did my mom during her last years, so I've visited there several times. At first apprehensive, I became quite a fan of its downtown which is beautiful and gorgeous, both the old and the new ... retail, hotels, businesses, parks all nicely blend together. And, to be sure, it doesn't hurt at all to be sitting at the base of the Wasatch mountains on the west side and have Park City an such places only a half hour away. It also has a local rail transit system which is pretty nice. It has a great airport and interstate highway system. The city is clean and beautiful. If I sound like a Salt Lake City commercial, I guess that I am!

Doug, we are all aware of SLC's rail transit since it was our very own Congressman Istook who was instrumental in shifting dollars that should have gone to OKC's rail system over to his beloved SLC.

I agree with the dusty comment about SLC, I've been there numerous times - its OK but OKC has WAY MORE potential and OKC looks like a much bigger city (could that be because OKC is bigger in population, yes??). OKC has much bigger/taller skyscrapers but SLC does have OKC beat as far as retail downtown and there seems to be a little 'swagger' of sorts while OKC seems to be trying to prove something (surely OKC might gain a swagger of sorts once an NBA team comes and the city gains several major corporate aquisitions, all of which SLC had done).

Did I mention that SLC is very dusty!!! It's funny that people associate that with OKC when in fact Denver, SLC, Phoenix, Vegas, and LA are WAY MORE DUSTY yet people overlook it. I mean, OKC is on the border of the Great Plains grassland and the Ozark Timber forest; something none of the aformentioned can say. In fact, LA JUST had a dust-storm a day ago!!!

Did the dust bowl even come to OKC??? Pics Ive seen are always of farms and towns, not a big city.

Major league sports teams...
Salt Lake City = 3 (NBA, MLS, AFL)
Oklahoma City = 0

Host of the Olympics...
Salt Lake City = 1 (2002 Winter Olympics)
Oklahoma City = 0


You all are right... SLC just doesn't hold a candle to OKC.

My brother lives in Salt Lake as did my mom during her last years, so I've visited there several times. At first apprehensive, I became quite a fan of its downtown which is beautiful and gorgeous, both the old and the new ... retail, hotels, businesses, parks all nicely blend together. And, to be sure, it doesn't hurt at all to be sitting at the base of the Wasatch mountains on the west side and have Park City an such places only a half hour away. It also has a local rail transit system which is pretty nice. It has a great airport and interstate highway system. The city is clean and beautiful. If I sound like a Salt Lake City commercial, I guess that I am!

Let's not forget who helped SLC get their light rail system, Oklahoma's own Congressman Ernest Istook.:053:

Hot Rod, I wasn't comparing ... just saying that I liked Salt Like City and gave some of the reasons why. It's OK to like other cities, yes? And I agree about Istook ... but SLC does have the rail and we don't.

You are correct that, technically, Okc was not "in" its usual definitions ... on the eastern edge of it. We were directly affected, however ...

Take a look at Lake Overholser and sand dunes in western Oklahoma County during the 1930s ...

Lake Overholser, 1935 ... look closely and see the 39th street bridge at the top

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/dustbowl/okcoverholser1935.jpg

Dunes near Council, 1936

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/dustbowl/okcwesternedge1936.jpg

For more, see Doug Dawgz Blog: The Dust Bowl (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2007/03/dust-bowl.html) .

Wow, great pics Doug. I've never been to Salt Lake City, but always thought based on the pictures I've seen it looks like a nice place.

I lived there for 3 years. The main reasons that it has pushed past us are becausse of winter tourism and because it has a major hub airport because of its status as the largest city for a huge area of the rockies. That allowed it to get the Olympics which pushed light rail and more upscale shopping, etc. When I lived there 89-91 it was very similar to OKC and actually probably had less retail/entertainment.

It's obvious nobody can possibly love Oklahoma City as much as Doug. Yet, the city purity police even jumps on him when he dared admit he liked another city. Pity the soul that think it a sin if someone here dare like another city. What a dull life they must lead if they think Oklahoma City is the be all and end all of great American cities. That kind of competitiveness makes no sense at all. Oklahoma City is a great city, but many others run circles around us. Let's remember that our fair city is not even on the conscious radar screen of millions of Americans and really, can that be said for Salt Lake City? Or 'dusty' LA? LOL! Even funnier was this Hot Rod classic: "I mean, OKC is on the border of the Great Plains grassland and the Ozark Timber forest; something none of the aformentioned can say." Yes Hot Rod, I was in dusty SoCal just the other day listening to people lament their dirty, barren cities. One said, "You know, if we only lived on the border of the Great Plains and the Ozark Timber Forest. Damn, we're stuck in this stinkin La Jolla."

:congrats: :congrats: :congrats:

Solitude, you're taking it way too far.

People consistently say that OKC is 'dusty', yet when was the last day OKC was actually dusty? Furthermore, I think people have an image of OKC as a desert, which is completely untrue.

Contrast that with SLC and LA, I've been to (worked and even lived a short time) and LA's geography is in a desert (in case you weren't aware Solitude), as is Salt Lake City. Have you heard of the Great Salt Lake desert?? It does lie within the confines of the SLC metroplex. And LA is almost complete desert save the coastal area, and that is a very slim boundary.

You must have missed the dust-storm LA had, which caused a HUGE traffic mess on I-5 - resulted in many deaths and lots of damage. When was the last time you EVER heard of this happening in OKC? When was the last time you heard of a dust storm in OKC? Not in our lifetimes.. Right?

Both SLC and LA are in a more arid climate than OKC that if they didn't have irrigation - yes, that is why there is water in LA and SLC.. - those places would completely look like Phoenix (which is also looking better due to irrigation). Those pics Doug has of the Dust Bowl look EXACTLY like the area right outside of the SLC metro, TODAY (the metro and city itself would look like that too if it weren't for urbanization/irrigation)!!!

Yet, OKC doesn't have irrigation - gets plenty of water to naturally take care of things. Im not saying OKC doesn't have hot spells in the summer, where the grass tends to dry up but I am saying that 'normal' OKC climate is not desertified and it is NOT dusty, that would apply to LA and SLC; places in which popular media has glorified them.

If you lived in LA, tell me how much your water bill was and compare that to OKC. Ditto for electricity. ...?

Now, my post was not to chastise Doug but instead to make a comment that people probably never considered. And to ask, if the Dust Bowl really came to OKC, sorry; it was WAY before my time and when I grew up in OKC it was NEVER dusty.

I think perhaps OKC has a dusty image due to the tornadoes, which kick up dirt and debris when they spawn?? Those pics Doug had were telling but the images I remember from the Grapes/Dust Bowl were of little towns and farms; surely OKC was a nice size city even back then yet I never seen any URBAN images of Dust Bowl.

Tell you one thing solitude, you and the LA folks better hope the aquaduct system never fails - oh, but I guess you forgot that is the reason why LA has ANY water so people can lament their 'dusty' city.

I didn't take your remarks personally, Hot Rod ... I was simply saying that I thought that Salt Lake is a very cool city. Would I want to live there? No, it's much too far from the Texas Gulf which is where I like to go ... and I doubt that I'd want to have to deal with the snow during the winter ... but I certainly do enjoy my visits there ... but ... Great Salt Lake IS horribly smelly ... so I see no reason to go there, curiosity having been satisfied about that!

It's downtown, though the "skyline" isn't as nice as Okc's (in my opinion), is quite vibrant and full of "people" stuff ... shops, parks, hotels, etc.

http://www.alpha-ii.com/Photo/2002/2002-A34.JPG

Salt Lake certainly did it right for the Winter Olympics there (all associated controversies notwithstanding).

http://images.ksl.com/ksl/ksl_com/2002/0/20/2035.jpg

And, they have also done a good job of preserving historic buildings with their "modern" progress. The old courthouse/county building is a great example ...

http://www.dollartravels.com/images/cityguide/united-states/utah/salt-lake-city.jpg

And their "new" courthouse/county building ain't bad at all, either ...

http://www.bjy.com/images/courtbuilding.jpg

SLC is justy proud of its NBA arena, too ...

http://images.ksl.com/ksl/ksl_com/2002/0/20/2033.jpg

... as well as its downtown 2-block long Gateway Shopping area with fountains, landscaping, etc., on the west side and actually part of the downtown area ...

http://www.publicartinla.com/other_cities/slc/fountain_gateway.jpg

But, as should be clear enough, I do love what has been going on and is going on in Okc today and during the past several years, since Mayor Norick's MAPS initiative. Before MAPS, though, I suppose that my attitude was more like Pug's is today. He'll get on board one of these days, I'm thinking! :) But, it would do no harm to have a look at this city for some good ideas, in my opinion, as we grow and develop our "own" brand of making the city the way that we want it to be.

They could learn from us, too ... SLC has no downtown area similar to Bricktown and/or the canal ... of course, they don't have a river at all ... but, then, we don't have the mountain backdrop, either.

But, in my opinion, both are great cities!

I agree Doug, it is nice to learn from other cities and benchmark, them likewise to OKC. I didnt think you were offended by my post, but I was answering Solitude mainly who was boosting those places.

I dont think there is anything wrong with reminding people that OKC is NOT a desert, not even near a desert, unlike LA and SLC, and is quite naturally green and has trees. I dont call palm trees a real tree.

Nevertheless

Doug I agree, skyscraper wise SLC doesn't hold a candle to OKC's dense and taller scrapers; but I do agree with you that downtown SLC is more people friendly in a larger area (not JUST Bricktown like ours). And certainly they have built/thrown in amenities over the years that have brought it considerably ahead of us in retail and housing. When I was there for business in the mid-1990's, downtown SLC was almost a carbon copy of the current downtown OKC, save the skyscrapers we have. Not much retail, yet it did have the Delta Center then - it was JUSt built.

From the pics, it looks like they have taken that progress forward and even constructed a new "tallest tower" (yet still shorter than any of our big 5, lol).

I think there are great things we can learn from SLC, once again (like I said for the smaller city of Des Moines), SLC has a GREAT inner city/albeit small. There is an urban connection/continuity that makes the city appear/feel much larger than it really is. And my opinion was from more than 10 years ago, im sure it is even better now.

How can we do the same in OKC? That is what we can learn from them. .. and yes - both cities are great.

In fact, I think we will come closest to SLC in terms of NBA support (but it should be said that we wont be the smallest market, SLC, NO, are smaller and Mem might already be smaller than OKC). I hope we use SLC, Denver, Indy, and Portland as role models (along with some DSM and Omaha) since we are most similar to them and should have similar successes.

Hot Rod, I wasn't "boosting" those cities, only making an observation. Yes, they're BUILT on/near desert terrain. Does that make them "dusty?" Of course not! I've been to SoCal enough times to know that's not a term associated with Los Angeles. Have they had dust storms? Yes. Have we? Yeah. Where were you about two years ago when you couldn't hardly see two blocks in front of you? Oh yeah, you were in Seattle, where you have CHOSEN to live over Oklahoma City. And why your hangup with the desert? Do you still think those people in SoCal, along the Pacific Ocean, would really rather live, "on the border of the Great Plains grassland and the Ozark Timber forest?"

Sorry, but I have read zilllions of your posts and your unrealistic views of OKC (a city you don't even LIVE in!) are so starry-eyed as to be comical. You've compared OKC to every major city in the country fantasizing in some way, that Oklahoma City's "renaissance" has made it one of the great cities of the world.

I find it ironic such a booster would choose SOMEWHERE ELSE to call home. For whatever reason. There's jobs here. There's everything here that's in Seattle, after all Oklahoma City is a world-class city (your words in a post) and if you really think that, you should LIVE HERE! Do you even know what a "world-class city" is? You are dreaming a dream, my friend. We're a fine city. "World-class," we are not.

Dusty LA and SLC...and OKC's natural beauty of the damned up North Canadian River. Earth to Hot Rod.

By the way, Southern California is a lot more than palm trees. You said OKC is SO green and beautiful with trees and you don't consider Palm Trees "real trees." Well, I don't know where you've been in SoCal, but there are a hell of a lot more trees in LA than Palm Trees. And even if there were not - you think OKC is, "quite naturally green and has trees." I suppose that's why people flock via Will Rogers and Amtrak to Oklahoma City for the greenery instead of Jamaica, Aruba, etc. Those UGLY Palm trees!! I'm so glad people are realizing OKC is the REAL green spot.

You're in fantasy land, Hot Rod. I'm sure you're a good guy, but you are fooling yourself.

Before MAPS, though, I suppose that my attitude was more like Pug's is today. He'll get on board one of these days, I'm thinking! :)
^^ ... continues to be utterly clueless (or willfully ignorant) about what I've been saying... I hope he enjoys his blissful ignorance...

Doug, you might be surprised to know that we agree on much more than we disagree on... but you would rather continue in your bliss... oh well... so much for the truce ...

No, let's keep the up the truce! And, no, I'm not surprised that we often agree and I've not forgotten that. And, if you want to think (and say) that I'm utterly clueless (or willfully ignorant), and "blissfully ignorant," I can handle it without rancor.

Then, please do not ascribe beliefs to me that I have not expressly expressed... and we'll be just fine...:tiphat:

Perhaps we just misunderstand each other ... maybe it would be good for each of us to articulate our points of view somewhere else, sometime.

We do have a PM feature that will allow you to continue this discussion - to infinity and beyond....

And let everyone else miss out on this fun? Surely you jest!

And let everyone else miss out on this fun? Surely you jest!

No, that's our job. :D

Hot Rod, I wasn't "boosting" those cities, only making an observation. Yes, they're BUILT on/near desert terrain. Does that make them "dusty?" Of course not! I've been to SoCal enough times to know that's not a term associated with Los Angeles. Have they had dust storms? Yes. Have we? Yeah. Where were you about two years ago when you couldn't hardly see two blocks in front of you? Oh yeah, you were in Seattle, where you have CHOSEN to live over Oklahoma City. And why your hangup with the desert? Do you still think those people in SoCal, along the Pacific Ocean, would really rather live, "on the border of the Great Plains grassland and the Ozark Timber forest?"

Sorry, but I have read zilllions of your posts and your unrealistic views of OKC (a city you don't even LIVE in!) are so starry-eyed as to be comical. You've compared OKC to every major city in the country fantasizing in some way, that Oklahoma City's "renaissance" has made it one of the great cities of the world.

I find it ironic such a booster would choose SOMEWHERE ELSE to call home. For whatever reason. There's jobs here. There's everything here that's in Seattle, after all Oklahoma City is a world-class city (your words in a post) and if you really think that, you should LIVE HERE! Do you even know what a "world-class city" is? You are dreaming a dream, my friend. We're a fine city. "World-class," we are not.

Dusty LA and SLC...and OKC's natural beauty of the damned up North Canadian River. Earth to Hot Rod.

By the way, Southern California is a lot more than palm trees. You said OKC is SO green and beautiful with trees and you don't consider Palm Trees "real trees." Well, I don't know where you've been in SoCal, but there are a hell of a lot more trees in LA than Palm Trees. And even if there were not - you think OKC is, "quite naturally green and has trees." I suppose that's why people flock via Will Rogers and Amtrak to Oklahoma City for the greenery instead of Jamaica, Aruba, etc. Those UGLY Palm trees!! I'm so glad people are realizing OKC is the REAL green spot.

You're in fantasy land, Hot Rod. I'm sure you're a good guy, but you are fooling yourself.


Since you've read my posts, you should have also read that I live in Seattle because I do not like the heat primarily but will most likely be moving to Chicago, since the company I work for recently did that a few years back. Just because I like OKC or what it is doing doesn't mean I have to live there - suffering through the hot/humid summers which I hate!

And, just because I live here in Seattle doesnt mean that I cant feel happy for OKC or compare it differently than someone like yourself does, who apparently only looks skin deep at the flashy this or that to determine if something is a big city.

Seattle is a great place and I do like it here, but that doesn't mean we are the best city nor does it mean that OKC isnt either - both places are different.

And my most recent point was, I dont understand why OKC has a dusty rep when Ive never seen a dust storm there (I lived in OKC for 17 years by the way). I didnt say anything about people flocking to OKC for their green scene, however I said OKC does have trees and is not dusty. I said palm trees does not equate to greenery to me, which is what LA has. And that is all I said, You made the generalizations above about aruba and wherever, I didnt.

Maybe you should move since you can't or wont be happy of what you have, beauty of OKC is more than JUST a damned up river (as you put it).

Your disdain for OKC does not make you an expert at LA, Seattle or another place, but rather since I travel often to both on business and other American and international cities - I think I can offer a much better comparison that goes beyond whether Downtown OKC has a Nordstrom or a Banana Republic just because Downtown Seattle does (the latter store of which is always empty). Apparently that is all you look for in determining whether a city is great.

To me, I think the LOCAL fabric is what makes a city great and OKC compares in this way to most other major cities. Sure, there is little if any flair downtown and the city is a little slower, but does that mean OKC is bad? Does that mean that the fact that OKC has an asian area full of LOCAL places that it ISNT similar to Seattle which also has one, or that OKC has a gay district that it ISNT similar to Seattle which also has one, or that OKC is a regional center that it isnt similar to Seattle which is also one???

OKC does have things that Seattle doesnt have, like a hispanic downtown. And Seattle has things that OKC doesnt, like (will have) two major-league sports teams. Does that make Seattle better?

Tell me, other than Geography, how are OKC and Seattle different?

I can tell you, they arent. :gossip:

And that is reality dude! Maybe you need to get over the fact that there are some people who actually like OKC the way it is.

SLC looks live a lovely, vibrant City. OKC is, too. As I have posted, before, I encourage outsiders to think it is a wasteland so they will stay away. :)

Since you've read my posts, you should have also read that I live in Seattle because I do not like the heat primarily but will most likely be moving to Chicago, since the company I work for recently did that a few years back. Just because I like OKC or what it is doing doesn't mean I have to live there - suffering through the hot/humid summers which I hate!

And, just because I live here in Seattle doesnt mean that I cant feel happy for OKC or compare it differently than someone like yourself does, who apparently only looks skin deep at the flashy this or that to determine if something is a big city.

Seattle is a great place and I do like it here, but that doesn't mean we are the best city nor does it mean that OKC isnt either - both places are different.

And my most recent point was, I dont understand why OKC has a dusty rep when Ive never seen a dust storm there (I lived in OKC for 17 years by the way). I didnt say anything about people flocking to OKC for their green scene, however I said OKC does have trees and is not dusty. I said palm trees does not equate to greenery to me, which is what LA has. And that is all I said, You made the generalizations above about aruba and wherever, I didnt.

Maybe you should move since you can't or wont be happy of what you have, beauty of OKC is more than JUST a damned up river (as you put it).

Your disdain for OKC does not make you an expert at LA, Seattle or another place, but rather since I travel often to both on business and other American and international cities - I think I can offer a much better comparison that goes beyond whether Downtown OKC has a Nordstrom or a Banana Republic just because Downtown Seattle does (the latter store of which is always empty). Apparently that is all you look for in determining whether a city is great.

To me, I think the LOCAL fabric is what makes a city great and OKC compares in this way to most other major cities. Sure, there is little if any flair downtown and the city is a little slower, but does that mean OKC is bad? Does that mean that the fact that OKC has an asian area full of LOCAL places that it ISNT similar to Seattle which also has one, or that OKC has a gay district that it ISNT similar to Seattle which also has one, or that OKC is a regional center that it isnt similar to Seattle which is also one???

OKC does have things that Seattle doesnt have, like a hispanic downtown. And Seattle has things that OKC doesnt, like (will have) two major-league sports teams. Does that make Seattle better?

Tell me, other than Geography, how are OKC and Seattle different?

I can tell you, they arent. :gossip:

And that is reality dude! Maybe you need to get over the fact that there are some people who actually like OKC the way it is.

Truce. But, just so you know, you confused me with some other posters with a couple of your comments. And, I have no disdain for Oklahoma City. I love it here.