View Full Version : City Blight



Karried
10-12-2007, 06:53 AM
I was driving North on Western from a church in Nichols Hills for a funeral last week.

It is just amazing to me still that in OK you have million dollar homes and just a few blocks away, homes with cars parked on the lawns, decrepid falling down homes and some what appeared to be very 'down and out' people at bus stops.

I couldn't believe how pristine and beautiful the neighborhoods in Nichols Hills are and just a short walk away, it looks so downtrodden and actually kinda scary.

Why is this? What is the difference in 'neighborhood pride' and 'could care less about picking up garbage off the lawn'?

I have some ideas but am wondering what other's takes are.

PUGalicious
10-12-2007, 07:01 AM
When I saw the title of this thread, I thought for sure the subject was all the stupid buffalo statues.

betts
10-12-2007, 07:14 AM
Witht the great Nichols Hills Elementary, I had truly expected the area north of Wilshire to improve dramatically, So far not. But hopefully as Western continues to improve, the neighborhoods surrounding it will too.

On the other hand, virtually every city I've visited, if you're not in the suburbs, is similar. There's are great neighborhoods surrounded by ones is a poor state of repair.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
10-12-2007, 08:09 AM
When I saw the title of this thread, I thought for sure the subject was all the stupid buffalo statues.

HAHAHAHA!

No kidding!

Dark Jedi
10-12-2007, 11:04 AM
I think the difference is quite simple: the trashed neighborhoods are predominantly rental, while the decent ones are predominantly homeowner.

When I rent, I look for homes that are in areas that are more owned than rented. That way the neighborhood is nicer, and more well maintained. It is a common trait to all regions.

so1rfan
10-12-2007, 11:31 AM
When I saw the title of this thread, I thought for sure the subject was all the stupid buffalo statues.

What exactly is so "stupid" about those buffalo statues?

jbrown84
10-12-2007, 12:05 PM
They are kitschy and tacky.

BG918
10-12-2007, 12:25 PM
You get that a lot in Norman because of the high amount of rental properties catering to OU students and faculty. Very nice older homes next to houses that are falling apart. I'm sure this is the case along Western and in parts of urban OKC as well.

NE Oasis
10-12-2007, 12:40 PM
I think the difference is quite simple: the trashed neighborhoods are predominantly rental, while the decent ones are predominantly homeowner.

Agreed, now let's look at the why. Neighborhood transition is usually slow going downhill and quicker on an uphill. In the area this thread mentions Nichols Hills was a planned upscale community and has mostly maintained that image, while the area north was the town of Britton, that lost its pride with the loss of sense of community. Overnight it went from a town to inner-city. Western is finally enjoying a renaissance (sp) south of Chesapeake land after a few false starts. Wilshire and north will be revived either by McClendon bucks or by those that see economic gain in being a support element to the Cheasapeake empire, either with housing, retail, or office space.

Karried
10-12-2007, 12:52 PM
So, I'm thinking that holding the homeowners responsible is a good idea. It should be on them to ensure that the renters maintain the property even if they are not homeowners.

If the renter can't do it, the owner should hire a service and bill them or add that to the rent.

They need to clarify this in the beginning of the contract...ie stricter rental contracts addressing yard maintenance or cars parked on lawns ..or HOA's suing or putting Liens on properties that are out of compliance (in extreme instances).

The city has ordinances and all it takes is someone to call. But, apparently in these neighborhoods, no one cares anymore. And that is really sad.

The owner should want the neighborhood to increase in value and not deteriorate.

Dark Jedi
10-12-2007, 04:16 PM
So, I'm thinking that holding the homeowners responsible is a good idea. It should be on them to ensure that the renters maintain the property even if they are not homeowners.

If the renter can't do it, the owner should hire a service and bill them or add that to the rent.

They need to clarify this in the beginning of the contract...ie stricter rental contracts addressing yard maintenance or cars parked on lawns ..or HOA's suing or putting Liens on properties that are out of compliance (in extreme instances).

The city has ordinances and all it takes is someone to call. But, apparently in these neighborhoods, no one cares anymore. And that is really sad.

The owner should want the neighborhood to increase in value and not deteriorate.

zin order to do that, however, you have to make it universal. If no other rental operation on the bock is doing it, you will have the nicest vacant house anywhere, because the renters moved in to the houses that didn't have that requirement.

venture
10-12-2007, 06:00 PM
I sort of have this issue with a rental house next to me. The home is about about 10 years or so older than mine, so it will show a bit more wear. Last spring new people moved in, a family and some kids, and I am so glad they are gone now. For the few years I've lived in this location, the yard was always usually upkept and no major issues at all. Once this family moved in...it was like the neighborhood had a little piece of redneck hell dropped right in.

Lawn furniture in the front yard, toys all over the place, less than desireable cars parked in the driveway and out front, fence between the two houses (their fence) falling missing plenty of pieces. Not to mention their kids being everywhere unwatched...it got agrivating moving toys out of my driveway or having to way for them to move their bikes out of the way so I could pull into my garage.

Thankfully they are gone and the owner of the house has a relative living there now. MUCH better. No garbage in the yard...they fixed the fence...and its enjoyable not having to avoid kids riding their bikes in my driveway or running across my front yard.

gcald
10-12-2007, 06:37 PM
So, I'm thinking that holding the homeowners responsible is a good idea. It should be on them to ensure that the renters maintain the property even if they are not homeowners.

If the renter can't do it, the owner should hire a service and bill them or add that to the rent.

They need to clarify this in the beginning of the contract...ie stricter rental contracts addressing yard maintenance or cars parked on lawns ..or HOA's suing or putting Liens on properties that are out of compliance (in extreme instances).

The city has ordinances and all it takes is someone to call. But, apparently in these neighborhoods, no one cares anymore. And that is really sad.

The owner should want the neighborhood to increase in value and not deteriorate.

I drive that stretch of Western daily and occasionally cut through to beat the trains. If you think it looks scary parts of it are. What brings it to topic though is the visibility from Western, I could mention other areas within a few mile radius that are just the same but off the main roads, out of sight out of mind. A story from the inside: My first house was west of Classen on NW 46th, paint peeling wreck when I bought it and a nice little bungalow with fresh paint, new roof, flower beds, new drive, flagstone walk and a literal crack house across the street. I think you'll find amongst these neighborhoods people of perhaps limited means but with pride of ownership who do the best with what they have. Absentee owners for the most part care about the bottom line and the rent being paid, they buy low, extract the profit, depreciate the asset and often eventually summon the bulldozer. The crack house was owned by out of state dentists, they didn't care when I called, referred me to the property manager who really didn't care, it was rented. The attorney who owned the rental from hell next door only started caring when I started calling his home at the precise hour I was disturbed (generally a number followed by AM). It takes action from within and from before, the renters bring the values they were taught long ago.
They also bring their resentments, years of not being able to get maintenance performed for example tend to harden attitudes. The city, I had Action Line figuratively on speed dial and they respond at typical bureaucratic speed but someone has to call, they don't go looking in my experience. And given that the only apparent way to get the city to mow one of their own properties was to call the Action Line was and is disturbing. By the way Karried and I do not say this as an attack, just my perspective: "someone to call/...apparently.... no one cares anymore", calling persistently for example to get grass mowed given the amount of the legally required time of notification/allowed period of rectification etc. plus the minimum height of grass to yield an actionable complaint nets about two mows a season. If you drive by four weeks after I've successfully forced a mow what are you going to perceive? What is "apparent" is not necessarily what is true. And grass is easy, cars tend to move around. To close this story though I did more than double my money in seven years and upscaled a fair amount. Eight years later my old house is just about back to where it was though, I don't like to drive by anymore.
NE Oasis has it right, in reality (IMO) it will take market forces to change the area and
Chesapeake will most likely drive that if it is to occur. That will not change the problem though, just relocate it. Renters have to live somewhere and there will
most likely always be deficient properties and poor landlords. And after forty years in and around multifamily property management I can tell you there are many very good landlords, and that also we've yet to discuss what it can be like on the inside!

Karried
10-12-2007, 07:13 PM
calling persistently for example to get grass mowed given the amount of the legally required time of notification/allowed period of rectification etc. plus the minimum height of grass to yield an actionable complaint nets about two mows a season


Yes, I can see how frustrating that would be. I really don't know the answers as to how neighborhoods can be maintained. It's just sad to see the area in such shambles.


In my neighborhood we have a Mrs Kravitz.

As well as filing a complaint with our HOA ( she's on the HOA committee) she has been calling on my neighbor's temporary Pod, another neighbors Boat parked in his driveway, another's Motorhome for the holidays and a Trailer, she has called the city on my grass on the backyard of my home ( she walked down the drain along the side of the house to peer into my backyard!) .. it was 11 inches .. I had a notice from the city of Edmond on my door in one day.

As much as I can't stand her, maybe the city is just so tired of hearing from her, they just come out to shut her up.. the squeaky wheel and all..

HOT ROD
10-12-2007, 10:11 PM
They are kitschy and tacky.

Hey guys, we have pigs up here (downtown Seattle). Vancouver has bears all over, much more appropriate.

But don't be ashamed of the buffs, they add 'something' to your city-scape. At least they aren't pigs. ... lol.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
10-12-2007, 11:35 PM
In my neighborhood we have a Mrs Kravitz.

As well as filing a complaint with our HOA ( she's on the HOA committee) she has been calling on my neighbor's temporary Pod, another neighbors Boat parked in his driveway, another's Motorhome for the holidays and a Trailer, she has called the city on my grass on the backyard of my home ( she walked down the drain along the side of the house to peer into my backyard!) .. it was 11 inches .. I had a notice from the city of Edmond on my door in one day.

As much as I can't stand her, maybe the city is just so tired of hearing from her, they just come out to shut her up.. the squeaky wheel and all..

You have Mrs. Kravitz, I have my next door neighbor and the dude across the street. They know ALLLL the important numbers for the city and aren't afraid to call.

But it DOES take a while to get that crap taken care of, and I'm more of a direct action kind of guy. The guy right on the corner of my street is horrible about his yard. Last summer we had to call the city about two weeks after the last time they mowed it all summer long. I went down there one day after he went to work, mowed the whole thing and dumped all the grass on top of the two very clean cars he's always got sitting in his driveway as well as on his front porch...Along with a note that said something along the lines of "keep your sh*t clean, or next time it'll be IN your cars." He hired a service this summer.


Hey guys, we have pigs up here (downtown Seattle). Vancouver has bears all over, much more appropriate.

But don't be ashamed of the buffs, they add 'something' to your city-scape. At least they aren't pigs. ... lol.

I don't mind having the buffalo, it's the ones that look like 412 children were asked to spit their gum on the unfortunate creature that I can't stand.

PUGalicious
10-13-2007, 06:26 AM
But don't be ashamed of the buffs, they add 'something' to your city-scape.
If that's the best and most creative "something" we are able to add to our cityscape, then I have less hope in our city's "visionary" future.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
10-13-2007, 06:32 AM
If that's the best and most creative "something" we are able to add to our cityscape, then I have less hope in our city's "visionary" future.

Our "visionary" got poked in one eye and lost his depth-perception when it came to the bubble-gum-buffalo herds.

PennyQuilts
10-13-2007, 06:42 AM
I can understand the logic of why most renters do not spend money to maintain the houses - a lot of people aren't going to spend their money to improve someone else's property and a lot of them are renting because they are low income and feel like they can't afford their own home. Only goes to show the value to the community as a whole to encourage ownership of private property and real property.

What I DON'T understand is why renters won't bend down and pick up trash in their yards or sweep the street in front of them. Tidiness doesn't cost anything and who wants to live in filth?

I suppose the real reason a lot of people lack the income to get their own home, or even lack the dream of getting one, is that they just haven't been raised to appreciate such things. Or they are immature I used to rent a house and the renter just trashed it. She had it in her head that we were "rich" because we "owned" two homes. She had excuses every month for why the bills were late and acted as if I was bullying her by expecting to be paid on time. She had NO concept that I had two mortgages to pay. "You've got money and I don't" was her excuse for everything, including not working, not paying the bills, allowing the puppy to destroy the carpet,walls and deck, and not putting in the furnace filters when we provided them.

I have to admit that when I was young and self centered, I moved out of a rental house in the middle of the night and left junk every where. I was paid up to the end of the month but I didn't give notice - I guess it didn't occur to me that it might be a month or two or three before they stopped by and realized I was long gone - that they wouldn't be paid for those months. I left a note on the door, if I remember correctly, convinced that was good enough. What a self centered little twit I was! I didn't have the money to afford a moving van and thought that the "rich" homeowner was better able to take care of it. Looking back, I suspect the "homeowner" wasn't that well off and I cringe to think that they walked in and realized that trailer trash (that would be me!) had just moved on. I also cringe to think that they probably had to spend the better part of a week, and their own money, to clean up my mess. Only goes to show that maturity CAN kick in at some point. So maybe some karma kicked back on me with my own trashy renter (although she was destructive and I was basically thoughtless - at least I didn't damage anything - Hmmm, I am apparently still capable of making lame excuses for myself)!