I've heard this from a couple of different people now, so perhaps a deal is close or already done.

If true, they'll go in the old Queen Anne space.

I have to say that would be a homerun location and a great fit for what they are trying to do with that property.


Anybody else hear this?

Supposedly there was a Ruth Chris' "coming soon" sign up once upon a time up near Quail Springs Mall. Then a realtor told me that they had bought land in the office complex where the new Pearl's is located, but that was probably nine months ago and there is no sign. So, there have been Ruth Chris' rumors floating around for awhile. I thought my realtor friend was pretty credible. It does seem like there's enough smoke that there may be fire.

There was a local group trying to bring this concept to the metro about 2 years ago...this deal fell through. I would think the current info that is going around is a rumor. If Ruth's Chris came to the area, I think they would need their own building. The Founders Tower / Queen Anne location doesn't have the visibility that these guys look for. If the rumor is true, it would most likely be a franchised unit.

Who cares about this? We don't need another chain.

If you want a fancy steak, go to Red Prime, the Boulevard Steakhouse, etc. We Oklahomans don't need a franchise to tell us how to do steak.

I agree, MT. And isn't Mohagany supposed to be good out there on Memorial?

Ruth's Chris is fine, but we have plenty of options in the steak department and if a chain is to come in, I'd rather it be a concept we don't have, rather than simply having a chain come in and compete against local business and take the profits out of state.

You know what would be a worthy project for OKCTalk? We ought to start a war on chains. I wonder if Pete would mind creating a directory for local restaurants? We could organize it by genre/location and exclude national chains altogether (I think Eateries restaurants deserve mention).

I do see how chains are a vote of confidence as to OKC's economic viability, but frankly, I don't need an Olive Garden to know my city is a worthy place to live. OKCTalkers -- your local restaurants are always as good or better than chains. Screw those national restaurant megachains. Support local businesses.

I'm with Mid on this one. Have been thinking of this for a long time. Perhaps the idea even merits it's own seperate website.

Unfortunately, I don't have a lick of technical expertise when it comes to these things. I really do think that such a project could be profitable, however. I'd say giving local restaurants free listings would be fine.. I'd let them post their menus for free, I'd let folks write reviews for free, restaurant owners could respond for free.. Maybe charge for banner ads and news releases? There is a website which sort of attempts this -- Oklahomacitymenus.com.. it's a national chain thing though and it's woefully outdated.

I think something like this would need its own domain to be successful.

www.828togo.com is a local delivery site for various restaurants, most of which are local. Check it out.

OpenTable (http://www.opentable.com) lists restaurants city-by-city throughout the nation. They include both local and chains, and have pretty good dinning incentives.

I love Ruth's Chris Steakhouse. It is a favorite of business people around the country and I am sure it will do very well in OKC. I would like to see it downtown though.

We need a 4th steakhouse downtown?

I almost never eat at what most consider chain restaurants but there is not a clear line between 'local' and 'chain'.

Many chains have local franchisees. And some local restaurants have more than one location and frequently not all are in OKC or even Oklahoma. How would you classify them?

Most consider Hal Smith restaurants as local... But that group also operates several franchised On the Borders and has several Charlestons including one in Fort Worth.

And what about Ted's? They have several locations, too. And Eateries, Inc... The list goes on.


I see this much as the foreign vs. domestic car debate: Just buy the product that suits you best instead of getting caught up in labels that are often mis-applied anyway (GM products built in Mexico, Hondas and Toyotas built in the U.S., etc.)

I wouldn't agree with the chain-is-bad idea. If you are going to wait around for local folks, you might as well give up. Look around at how busy a chain place is compared to a local. Not only are locals more expensive, but they usually don't attract the taste buds of the masses.

Now, I prefer local places most generally, but sometimes the chains make some good stuff. I don't think we should make it a plan to stop the chains from coming in though. They each have their market and place....which usually don't step on each others toes either.

I wouldn't agree with the chain-is-bad idea. If you are going to wait around for local folks, you might as well give up. Look around at how busy a chain place is compared to a local. Not only are locals more expensive, but they usually don't attract the taste buds of the masses.

Which to me is an absolute shame.

Please tell me the benefit of going to an Olive Garden when I can get fabulous italian with freshly prepared ingredients at any number of locally-owned and operated restaurants: Flips, Bellinnis, Pepperoni Grill (Eateries), Vito's - to name a few.

I used to work at an Olive Garden. The desserts are flown in frozen from parts unknown. The sauces are "boil in a bag," also frozen and flown in. The quality is just not the same, no matter which way you slice it.

The same goes for Red Lobster and the ilk. Look at what happened to Smoky Bones. They tried competing with local BBQ and failed.

I suppose for some the issue is finding what is familiar and comfortable, but to me quality beats price and quantity any old day.

As for the Great Steak debate, here's where we stand:

Mickey Mantle's - first out of the box downtown. Great food. Pricey, but worth the experience. We've found sitting in the bar while listening to the jazz combo and sharing a meal a great - and more affordable - option!

The Ranch - despite having lived right around the corner for several years, I never stepped foot in the place. I've heard it's very nice, though, and the parking lot always full, which speaks for itself.

Mahogany - have eaten there once. A great find. A bit too pricey when you compare what you get here vs. Boulevard, for example, but a lovely meal and nice atmosphere.

Boulevard - Hands down in MY experience the best in town. You could have cut my filet (just seared on either side with plenty of pink) with a fork. It was like buttah! First class service and atmosphere all the way. Great place for a celebratory occasion.

Red Prime - haven't experienced it yet, but great location and neat concept.

Cattleman's - the perennial "working man's" steak place. Great lunches and tasty steaks. Plus, who can't pass up a helping of calf fries or lamb fries!!!

With all this, do we really need another steak place - and a chain at that???

I vote no, but those that know me know I pretty much avoid most chains when I can help it for the reasons discussed in this, and in others' earlier posts.

To further my point...

Mahogany is in fact a chain. Multiple locations including one in Omaha and more planned. Lots of investors and who knows where they all live.

Mickey Mantle's is affiliated with Kirby's with about a half-dozen locations in Texas. Doubt the ownership lives in Oklahoma City.

I stand corrected, then.

I thought Mahogany was owned by Hal Smith or another local "group." While it might be a chain, the concepting group is still local to me (small nuance, I know).

I also thought Mickey Mantle's had at least a local partnership involved.

Edit: Regardless, I'd still rather fill the coffers of local owners than some giant corporate entity such as Dalton group, etc. That's not to say you will NEVER find me there (PeiWei/P.F. Changs, for example), but it is a rare occasion, indeed.

I only raise the points to illustrate that the chain v. local concept is far from black & white.

And just because there is only one or two locations doesn't necessarily mean the owners (part or all) are local.

So many on here seem to have very very little knowledge of how restaurants work. Do you think the owners of "local" eateries are buying the supplies from Albertsons? No. They are buying them from food suppliers. Just look at all of CISCO trucks driving around. Most fruits and vegetables are bought from the exact same place no matter what restaurant it is prepared in.

Just because some place is part of a chain doesn't mean anything, almost all are locally owned. It is called franchising. Do you think Applebee's owns every store? Most chains own very few of their own locations. Here is a quote from Applebees for example:

"As of Dec. 31, 2006, there were 1,930 Applebee’s Neighborhood Grill & Bar restaurants, of which 1,409 were operated by franchisees and 521 were operated by the company."

For those of you who can't do the math this means about 75% are locally owned.

I merely patronize restaurants I like and want to see succeed. I may go out of my way to eat at a place that I think needs the business but in the end they'd better deliver food-wise.

I honestly don't care if a Chili's makes it but it matters a great deal that places like Cheevers and Red succeed because IMO we need more places like them.

So to that extent, I think helping to promote places you like makes sense but trying to decide what places are included and what are excluded from some sort of promotional guide is tricky business for all the reasons I've previously mentioned.

Lots of people have food blogs where they post their opinions and promote restaurants that particularly like and a certain amount of that happens here, too.

I'm just not sure what else can be done other than posters helping to create a buzz about Red or similar places.

Do you think the owners of "local" eateries are buying the supplies from Albertsons?

No, because there ARE NO Albertsons left in Oklahoma City. Damn!

I agree with what you wrote about chains and franchising. I know more and more of the so-called "chain" restaurants are franchises, which many times (not all) are locally owned.

I have to disagree somewhat with the person who said local eateries do the same as chains and purchase their food nationally from CISCO, Ben E. Keith, etc. While that is true for some restaurants, I know plenty of local restaurants who purchase all local ingredients. They get their veggies from farmers markets, or grow there own offsite and they get their meat from one of the local meat shops. Granted this is mainly the moderate to upscale restaurants, but their are plenty or value purchasing local. Quality is better, keeping money in the local economy, taste is usually better (no pesticides, hormones, etc.). The ones who do purchase nationally either do it because they don't care about buying local/or don't know the benefits, or they do it because it's cheaper. The reasons chains do it is because they have buying power. Just like Wal-Mart offers things cheaper than Target, they have more buying power, etc.

To the person who said chains are more patronized than local, again I disagree. Just drive down Western Avenue any night of the week or visit some of the metro's more popular local restaurants. Restaurants are popular because the food is good or decent and if it's just average, the ambiance is nice. There are plenty although not enough local restaurants who stay just as packed. There are too many "suburbanite" minded people who just don't care or don't even realize they're putting money in out of state hands versus keeping $$$ in local hands and economy.

I go where the food is good. If it happens to be Chili's, so be it. If it's Sophabella's, so be it.

I don't care who runs it...I'll support it if it's tasty!

:)

There are too many "suburbanite" minded people who just don't care or don't even realize they're putting money in out of state hands versus keeping $$$ in local hands and economy.

Sorry, Metro. Your suburbanite comment reeks of snobbism. I am a suburbanite, although admittedly per my husband's choice, not my own.

Regardless of whether a chain is a locally-owned franchise, or a national chain, it is still a single-concept menu spread nationwide with little originality.

What I prefer about locally-owned restaurants, in addition to some of the notions as cited above, is that their menus tend to be more original and inviting those at most chains, which appeal primarily to the less-refined pallate (There, how's that for snobbism?)

I almost never eat at what most consider chain restaurants but there is not a clear line between 'local' and 'chain'.

Many chains have local franchisees. And some local restaurants have more than one location and frequently not all are in OKC or even Oklahoma. How would you classify them?

Most consider Hal Smith restaurants as local... But that group also operates several franchised On the Borders and has several Charlestons including one in Fort Worth.

And what about Ted's? They have several locations, too. And Eateries, Inc... The list goes on.


I see this much as the foreign vs. domestic car debate: Just buy the product that suits you best instead of getting caught up in labels that are often mis-applied anyway (GM products built in Mexico, Hondas and Toyotas built in the U.S., etc.)


The Hal Smith Group (HSRG) owns/operates Teds as well.

So many on here seem to have very very little knowledge of how restaurants work. Do you think the owners of "local" eateries are buying the supplies from Albertsons? No. They are buying them from food suppliers. Just look at all of CISCO trucks driving around. Most fruits and vegetables are bought from the exact same place no matter what restaurant it is prepared in.

Just because some place is part of a chain doesn't mean anything, almost all are locally owned. It is called franchising. Do you think Applebee's owns every store? Most chains own very few of their own locations. Here is a quote from Applebees for example:

"As of Dec. 31, 2006, there were 1,930 Applebee’s Neighborhood Grill & Bar restaurants, of which 1,409 were operated by franchisees and 521 were operated by the company."

For those of you who can't do the math this means about 75% are locally owned.


Good thoughts, but a bit off. Even though a large number of chains or multi-unit restaurants are franchised, they still are not locally owned. Oklahoma does not have a local franchisee of Applebee's, Chilis, etc. We do have a franchisee of Johnny Carinos in town. This argument can go on forever. HSRG (Hal Smith Group) is a LOCAL group that has done well and has created demand for more units. I am an independent (3 restaurants) owner who 100% supports local operators.

Man, you guys sure have it in for chains. You act like they're out to steal Christmas or something.

I like Chili's...Being single and in my 30's, it's my McDonald's. I eat there when I don't feel like cooking. It's dependable, consistant, reasonably priced, and there are several of them around town. I can't say the same for local places for the most part. I'm not saying that the food is stellar or anything, but it's a convenient and predictable choice when I'm not in a foodie frame of mind. Which is most of the time. I can walk in, sit at the bar, get a meal that has been prepared well enough that I usually want to finish it, and be on my way in 20 minutes for $10 or so.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY miss the food choices I had when I lived in SoCal. I've never been anywhere that had the quality and quantity of amazing places to eat that San Diego/San Juan Capistrano had. You couldn't swing a dead cat in a circle without hitting a dozen different mom-n-pop restaurants of a dozen different types. You could walk into any joint in a strip mall or on any corner and be reasonably sure that your food was going to taste good enough for you forget what you were talking about and pay attention to it. I was spoiled on great food for the better part of a decade out there, only to come home to severely limited choices. I've yet to find a GREAT Italian or Chinese place here. Good ones, sure. But not *WOW* great like a great many were out there. That doesn't mean that I despise Zio's because they're in 6 states. I like Zio's. They're A-OK in my book.

"War on chains"?

"Suburbanite minded"?

As a suburbanite that eats what he wants and not what some smarmy elitist thinks he should...I say...Kiss my grits.

but are those home style grits, or mass produced boil in a bag chain style grits?
:)

I've yet to find a GREAT Italian or Chinese place here.

Have you tried Sophabellas on N. May just north of Grand?

Their Chicago style pizza is stellar. I've not tried anything else, but it sure looks good.

I love the Ruth Fertel story. Personally I wouldn't mind at all having a Ruth's Cris in Oklahoma City just so Oklahoma would turn from gray to red on their locations map.

Chili's is considered a "national credit tenant" which means that some lender will actually loan money secured by a Chili's lease. Locally owned operations generally don't offer the same opportunity. There are very good reasons for this. This is not an insignificant factor when the cost of a building alone can easily be $5 million exclusive of the land and development cost.

In addition the people who work for the chain operation and the people who work for the suppliers and other vendors who support the chain are local. Successful chains offer benefits and opportunities that can prove attractive to working people.

Chain locations that prove successful often create opportunities for local restaurants, too.

Successful managers, whether of chain or not, participate in the life of the community.

I like the Utica Square approach where there has been a deliberate effort to maintain a balance between national and local stores.

I'd rather not see the really crappy chains succeed (like Olive Garden in my opinion) at the cost of good local businesses. But other than that, I don't have a problem with chains. Places like Panera and Outback I frequent all the time. Almost all of these restaurant franchises are locally owned and managed anyway. So you're only talking maybe 10% of the business' cash going out of state in the form of marketing and franchisee fees. It wouldn't surprise me if 'locally owned' restaurants had as much or more of their cash flowing out of state to pay back loans.

I think a lot of times when folks have a negative perception of chains, what they are really saying is they don't want a cookie-cutter dining experience that has been watered down to the lowest common denominator. Although this was the case 10 or 20 years ago, I really think the modern chains today are much more upscale, have better food, and are more flexible to fit in with their locales.

I had thought the Queen Anne's building was bulldoze down.
Is there still plans to add something in its place?

I go where the food is good. If it happens to be Chili's, so be it. If it's Sophabella's, so be it.

I don't care who runs it...I'll support it if it's tasty!

:)

My feelings exactlly. Different places appeal to different people for different reasons. Personally, I prefer Spaghetti Warehouse for Italian because I can't find anyone else that makes manicotti like theirs. BUT that doesn't mean I don't go to Zios for the Tortellini or something. Same for burgers, I can go somewhere local or a chain depending on what mood I'm in.

My main point is that I don't think it is good to say that either group shouldn't be allowed in. Chains allow a connection nationally that can't be obtained locally. You go to the Rubby Tuesday's, Chili's, etc. website and you see there's a location here. For someone traveling, that might be what they want. I know when I was in Chicago last summer, I was very glad to see a Chamilles as a familiar face on the first day before I was comfortable with the town and found more local stuff.

And remember, lots of 'local' restaurateurs learn their trade in chains.

Hal Smith ran both Steak & Ale and Chilis before striking out on his own.

my biggest problem with chains is that they're homogenizing the US and their food is usually medicre at best because they try to have something to please everyone.

Has anyone heard about that new Anthony Bourdain show where he travels arounds and eats at Applebees in other countries? Sounds enthralling, doesn't it?

but are those home style grits, or mass produced boil in a bag chain style grits?
:)

I know you meant this to be funny, but this is the problem with the mind set that "local is better". Unless somone is grinding their own corn to produce grits, it ALL comes from a mass produced bag.

you may start with mass produced grits. . . but it's what you do to them to add the flavor that makes the difference!!

Their almost done with their store in Tulsa so couldn't see why it would be possible for OKC... Never heard of the place...

Their almost done with their store in Tulsa so couldn't see why it would be possible for OKC... Never heard of the place...

Huh??



I'd rather not see the really crappy chains succeed (like Olive Garden in my opinion) at the cost of good local businesses. But other than that, I don't have a problem with chains.

I'm with you there. Good food is what I'm worried about. I tend to lean towards a local place, but when City Bites quality has gone down, I'm defecting to Jersey Mike's. Sorry. And I love Pei Wei, but the food is just about as good at Grand Village on 23rd by my church, so we frequent there as well.

But then again, if I have bad food at a chain (like Johnny Carino's for example), I don't go back, whereas with a local place, I will give them another chance to get it right.

Huh??




I'm with you there. Good food is what I'm worried about. I tend to lean towards a local place, but when City Bites quality has gone down, I'm defecting to Jersey Mike's. Sorry. And I love Pei Wei, but the food is just about as good at Grand Village on 23rd by my church, so we frequent there as well.

But then again, if I have bad food at a chain (like Johnny Carino's for example), I don't go back, whereas with a local place, I will give them another chance to get it right.

You think so?

At least I'm not the only one that thinks so. I've eaten at their new Moore location a few times, and it just didn't seem as good...So I went back to the old one, and it wasn't all that great either. Better than Subway and Quizno's , but nothing great. I've been pretty consistently going to Jersey Mike's (Or Someplace Else if I'm in the area) for my sandwiches lately.

To the person who said chains are more patronized than local, again I disagree. Just drive down Western Avenue any night of the week or visit some of the metro's more popular local restaurants. Restaurants are popular because the food is good or decent and if it's just average, the ambiance is nice. There are plenty although not enough local restaurants who stay just as packed. There are too many "suburbanite" minded people who just don't care or don't even realize they're putting money in out of state hands versus keeping $$$ in local hands and economy.

Guessing all of those employees of the chains are also from out of state and not local residents who depend on that chain's paychecks to pay their mortgages and feed their families?

I heard that same out of state argument when I worked in retail for a national bank...A large amount of Okies make their livelihoods through these national employers...I care more about tipping my waiter regardless of where it's headquartered than I do about helping the local owners of Sushi Neko, Deep Fork etc add on to their 10,000 sq ft McMansions

Yes local owners do pump more money into the economy, but are there enough entrepreneurs around to employ all of these people when we all join hands and boycott all outsider businesses?

Huh??

It's being built in Owasso a Sub-Urb of Tulsa...

Wierd location but it's being built next to the new Marriot u/c...

rage... are you saying that ruth's chris is building in owasso? i can't seem to find any articles supporting this. -M

A Ruth's Chris in that location makes a lot of sense. It's in close proximity to the Marriott and Crowne Plaza and therefore right in the crosshairs of it's target market - the out-of-town expense account diner. It's important to realize that many business travelers simply don't invest the time to research the better dining options for the locales they may be visiting. Therefore, they look for the higher end chains such as Ruth's or The Palm, Smith and Wollensky's, etc. and play it safe. I have to admit that I am guilty as charged (on occasion). When I am traveling to a new locale while on business I always check out whether there's one of these places anywhere close to where I am going to be staying or working. If I have the time to look into the local restaurant scene I will do so, but I'm pretty sure most business travelers don't go to some of the extremes I do to investigate a city's dining landscape.

Of course, I'll never see the inside of an OKC location of Ruth's when I visit town, but I'm sure they'll do well just on business travel trade.

It's being built in Owasso a Sub-Urb of Tulsa...

Wierd location but it's being built next to the new Marriot u/c...

What is "it"???

It's being built in Owasso a Sub-Urb of Tulsa...

Wierd location but it's being built next to the new Marriot u/c...



Yeah, right. Are you sure you're not thinking of Cracker Barrel? ;-)