I couldn't help but posting this. I saw this in today's Daily Oklahoman in the Opinon section. It was a letter to the editor. Obviously she has no clue what the majority of downtowners want.


Where to park?
My suggestion for MAPS 3 is many accessible parking spaces. After driving through Bricktown and the downtown business district, we decided it might be wonderful to take advantage of some restaurants, but there were no places to park that were anywhere close to where we would have liked to go. We were disappointed when the downtown library and the museum of art were located so near the downtown area that there was virtually no handicapped parking and no curb parking spaces.
To me, parking garages are Rape City, especially when I'm loaded down with books, notebooks and writing material.

Carol Joy Bird, Edmond

Well, I'm sorry folks, but people who complain about parking in Bricktown (or downtown) simply don't know where to look.

But that's okay. I don't mind. I'm not going to fill them in. I like being able to find a spot within five minutes of getting in the area.

I personally think that we should take seriously anything good or bad that visitors to Oklahoma City have to say about our town.

We certainly should not call them names and ignore their complaints.

Oklahoma City needs visitors to Bricktown and all of the other emerging districts. I suspect there are hundreds of thousands of people who live around Oklahoma City who have never visited downtown even once.

""To me, parking garages are Rape City, especially when I'm loaded down with books, notebooks and writing material.""

I know what she means...Not a day goes by w/o a rape story involving the parking garages downtown...I think they even have sexual assault counselors on the first floor of many of them :omg:

Worst part is a lot of scary southsiders frequent downtown as well

Thanks for sharing that metro...Good stuff there

Geez. Remember my story about my neighbors that drive to their mailbox? I wasn't kidding. No wonder they complain about the parking downtown. Go hang out in downtown Dallas for a day and then come whine about the parking. :numchucks

I personally think that we should take seriously anything good or bad that visitors to Oklahoma City have to say about our town.

We certainly should not call them names and ignore their complaints.

Oklahoma City needs visitors to Bricktown and all of the other emerging districts. I suspect there are hundreds of thousands of people who live around Oklahoma City who have never visited downtown even once.

But this lady is a local. She lives in suburban Edmond. Us downtowners work and live downtown for a reason. We don't want a sea of parking with doorfront parking at every building. This lady clearly just doesn't get what a downtown is about. And our parking garages charge reasonable rates. Go to any other city same size or larger, you'll probably have to walk farther and pay more.

Well metro it is only my opinion but if the city cannot even attract "local" people to come downtown then it seems to me a bad sign for attracting non-local.

I honestly don't see whether someone lives in suburban Edmond or suburban Kansas City or suburban anywhere else has to do with Oklahoma City trying to create an inviting space for people.

I suspect if an area is not only uninviting but feels unsafe to one person then there are many more that feel the same way and hav
e not expressed it.

Or do you really only want to reserve downtown for those who live there? Maybe I've misunderstood the entire idea of modern urbanism. I suppose it is a kind of nimbyism.

And really at least part of the solution to this problem is to provide convenient, dependable light rail - or something "cool" at least - transportation to the downtown districts.

I was just reading a post another forum from a prospective student considering OU for graduate school. But he doesn't want to have a car and he still wants to get to downtown OKC - at night - and get back home.

And the Norman Sooner Express or whatever it is that stops running at 6 pm or whatever really doesn't help much.

Personally, I don't think this is a large-scale problem. Usually visitors to our city write better reviews than us locals who are full of city pride. Check out some traveler review sites for yourself, I have. The lady's main concern was curbside parking. There is plenty of it. We don't need large surface parking lots in downtown. My stance on that won't change. There are already too many of them in Lower Bricktown as many on this board have commented endlessly. There is not a parking problem downtown, there are always open spots as many have said, usually within a 5 minute walk. There are an adequate number of parking garages in the CBD, especially near the Art Museum and library as the lady mentioned. Safety is great downtown and you rarely hear of any crime problems downtown. Last/Only one I remember is the rare incident in Bricktown last summer. That is not too much to ask for someone wanting to visit downtown. They should know that a downtown is geared to be pedestrian oriented (not the automobile like the suburbs). For goodness sake, there is a parking gargage right behind the library!! It doesn't get any easier than that. Less than a block away there are at least two more parking garages.

Metro, in case you're not aware, many Edmondites view pedestrians as potential hood ornaments. Finding a place to park an Escalade is not as easy as it sounds, especially when the lone child in the backseat refuses to turn off the DVD player. And WALK more than ten feet? Are you mad sir?

Let's put a 360 degree carport all the way around the Library. That way, soccer moms can pull up in their SUV/Minivan and not have to worry about getting raped in the parking garage behind the Library.

If we had light rail from Edmond to downtown parking wouldn't be an issue.

Or do you really only want to reserve downtown for those who live there? Maybe I've misunderstood the entire idea of modern urbanism. I suppose it is a kind of nimbyism.

I think you have a point that we should listen to all comments, but we also have to evaluate them within context of city development and long term goals. The reality is that someone from Edmond is probably conditioned to being able to park at the front door of their location and this seems to be exactly what this person is talking about. She is also requesting that this be accomplished without the use of parking garages. Do you know what that kind of development looks like? Memorial Road and I-240 and pretty much the entire city outside of downtown.

Now, this is fine if this lady wants that kind of living, but, let's be honest, that is everywhere in Oklahoma. This lady doesn't need Bricktown at all. What she's asking for, Oklahoma City has ad nauseum. Why does she need to go to bricktown at all, when what she wants is everywhere in the city already? And we can already attract anyone to our city that is looking for that as we have more of it than most cities. We are, in fact, a Mecca for that kind of living.

The idea behind revitalizing the city core and bricktown is to attract more people and investment to Oklahoma City, be they visitors or new residents, corporate or individual, by offering additional living options and attractions. The whole point of subsidizing some of this is because we weren't getting any urban type developments without any help and, therefore, we weren't getting any interest from urban minded people or corporations. Oklahoma City had essentially positioned itself outside of a certain market that is pretty prominent in American living.

The entire idea of modern urbanism, or urbanism in general, is not driven by the idea that everyone can park next to one specific destination at any given point. It's focus is creating a district where at any given point you are next to several destinations. That is created by pedestrian friendly developments that stress density and shun separating all the developments by vast landscapes of blacktop, which would be required to satisfy this women's wishes.

To contrast it for you, this lady likes the idea of Memorial road, where you can usually park within 150 feet or so next to any one destination, but you have to drive to get to your next destination. Urbanism is about parking once, at most, and being within walking distance of several destinations. The city doesn't need the former and is trying to offer the latter with bricktown and downtown. It's not nimbyism, it's just having focus and planning to achieve a goal that hasn't been realized anywhere else in the city. If we followed this lady's suggestions, there would actually be no point in having bricktown or downtown at all, really, and there certainly would be no point in taxing people to build what we are already surrounded by.

I honestly don't see whether someone lives in suburban Edmond or suburban Kansas City or suburban anywhere else has to do with Oklahoma City trying to create an inviting space for people.

I suspect if an area is not only uninviting but feels unsafe to one person then there are many more that feel the same way and have not expressed it.

Or do you really only want to reserve downtown for those who live there? Maybe I've misunderstood the entire idea of modern urbanism. I suppose it is a kind of nimbyism.

:congrats::congrats: :congrats:


I would like to see this taken out of the equation - that she is from Edmond. Suffice it to say she lives in the suburbs and is offering constructive criticism.

All of us in Edmond aren't cookie cutter stepford wives refuses to walk a few steps to attractions.

Compared to any other urban entertainment district I've seen, Bricktown has oceans of parking. You might have to walk a couple of blocks or take a shuttle, but there is plenty and it is cheap, relatively speaking.

Having said all that, the key to getting suburbanites to visit downtown is to offer a unique experience they can't find elsewhere. Otherwise, people tend to follow the path of least resistance and will just avoid what they perceive as hassles.

Also, as OKC continues to develop as a place where young and more urban-oriented people want to live and work, the city will be less reliant on those that have chosen the Edmond/Yukon/Moore lifestyle. Those people are never going to spend a lot of time in the city core anyway.

most of the people I hear bitch about parking are fat and lazy, probably never been out of oklahoma and witnessed large metro areas where parking within 5 miles of a destination costs $20

parking spaces are ugly ! ! ! !

You can't please everyone.

Go to Lower Bricktown dot com. Click on Area Map. There is seriously more gaps between the buildings than there are buildings! Hopefully, after whoever is in charge of development leaves, the area between the buildings will be filled with more buildings. Parking can then be had BEHIND the buildings. Sheesh.

Pretty simple... If I want to take a good walk and enjoy the Downtown or Bricktown atmosphere I go to Bricktown or Downtown to eat, shop, etc. If I want to drive up to the door of the restaurant or store, then I shop near my home in the "suburbs."

If I am going to bricktown then I don't want a sea of parking at the door of where I am going!

I want people to support Bricktown but If you do not like the atmosphere or what it has to offer this city has plenty of other options for you and I hope people will frequent them also.

BTW, There is just no truth to the claim that people must drive around for long periods of time to find parking in Bricktown. I go there quite frequently and as I have stated on this forum before, I have NEVER had a problem finding parking (usually free) including during big events such as Big XII Basketball tournaments, New Years, etc. But then again I enjoy walking! And compared to many mid to large cities the walking distance to anywhere in the Downtown area is just not that far!

There are roughly 3800 parking spots in the Bricktown immediate area. With having the ball park there on a baseball night it can make for an interesting parking situation. As someone new here that came from Indianapolis a comparable sized city which has just in the last years completed alot of what OKC is working on currently. I too feel there is a need for more parking IMO. Not in the form of a sprawling surface lot but in a well lit with very visible security parking garage where at least one of the surface lots are now if not 2-3 and that would alleviate these complaints.

I am not advocating more parking lots.

I am advocating taking seriously the concerns of visitors.

This visitor went to the trouble of writing the newspaper. That's considerably more effort than most people are willing to expend. Although in my experience they will tell about a dozen or more of their friends and relatives.

I also do not argue the question of parking capacity. Nor do I argue safety.

Perception is not an unimportant consideration.

There are roughly 3800 parking spots in the Bricktown immediate area. With having the ball park there on a baseball night it can make for an interesting parking situation.


You should have seen it on the nights when we had the Hornets and the Blazers playing or a huge concert night at Ford Center.

As someone living in Edmond, those are the reasons I generally go to Bricktown....Hornets and concerts, December in the Park, New Years, Parades etc we've usually parked at the Underground next to the Ford Center, walked to either Bricktown Brewery or Abuelos, Chelinos or Mantles..etc etc.. and then walked back to the Ford Center for the game or concert.

Other than the few freezing cold nights and pouring rain, I have had no problems parking and walking in Bricktown.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying there is a HUGE problem just that on a busy night it gets a little hairy for someone not familiar with the area. I have been to Bricktown many times in the short time I have lived here and enjoy the area immensly but I wish there were a few more parking garages in the areas currently surface lots. Almost each occasion I went was for an event be it a Redhawks, Hornets game whatever and the parking is alot to be desired in the perception of safety. Each and every time I was approached by a pan handler and on one occasion I had to result threatening violence to get him to leave us alone and stop following us. This will not bode well with a lot of suburbanites and will deter them from a return trip. With well lit secure parking garages I feel will better suit the visitors and provide a lot more spaces utilizing the existing land.

Obviously its not too much of an issue or crowds wouldn't reach 20,000-40,000 or so on the weekends when there is one or more major events going on downtown. Everyone keeps referring to Bricktown. The major issue/complaint I got from the Edmond lady was her quote

We were disappointed when the downtown library and the museum of art were located so near the downtown area that there was virtually no handicapped parking and no curb parking spaces.

This means to me that she wants curbside parking in the CBD (the main part of downtown). She says she was disappointed the downtown library was located so near downtown. Where do you want the downtown library to be located lady??? It's downtown and pedestrian oriented for a reason. And heck, again even for those who insist to drive, there is a brand new state of the art parking garage directly behind it and adjacent across the street.

True her suggestion is odd, but I also think its silly that you seem to imply she's an idiot simply because she's from Edmond - anyone could have sent this in. I lived in Edmond and worked downtown for many years and knew exactly where to find parking. Just because someone is an Edmondite doesn't make their point valid or invalid.

I'm not saying because of where she lives it automatically explains it. But it does make sense. I don't think everyone in Edmond thinks like this and I flat out know many of them don't. But I'd also be willing to bet that plenty of them do. It's obvious no matter where she's from, she doesn't get the bigger picture of urbanism.

Possibly, but im sure there are people from other parts of the metro that think the same way - I Just think its funny that since they are from Edmond, they must be part of the lazy Edmonites that are too lazy to walk.

This thread is funny in the fact that Edmonites are feeling as if they are being attacked.

We were disappointed when the downtown library and the museum of art were located so near the downtown area that there was virtually no handicapped parking and no curb parking spaces.


Maybe she's handicapped.


This thread is funny in the fact that Edmonites are feeling as if they are being attacked.

Aren't they?


I'm not saying because of where she lives it automatically explains it. But it does make sense.

Like I said, I think her complaints are a bit funny due to the fact that there is parking but sounds really indicative of any person not familiar with downtown.

I've never seen a single suspicious person in my parking garage - although I do think it funny that the city spent a ton of money on it yet failed to bother to include security cameras in the price.

True her suggestion is odd, but I also think its silly that you seem to imply she's an idiot simply because she's from Edmond - anyone could have sent this in. I lived in Edmond and worked downtown for many years and knew exactly where to find parking. Just because someone is an Edmondite doesn't make their point valid or invalid.


I agree with that. I love Edmond, but I'll say they definitely think their opinions matter more than most. And I don't consider a person living in Edmond to be a "visitor." I'm sorry, they're just not. Anyone in the central OK counties aren't really visitors, simply because the OKC MSA eats all that area up. I think this is just a matter of a person not understanding the function of a down/bricktown area. She's too suburbanized.

And Dale, I totally understand your stance... but I think it's just a matter of you being new here. If you knew the area better, you'd find some great parking within a nice walk of your destination. I'd rather have three tower lots than all the surface stuff, though. That's just me.

This Edmond mom should realize that when she visits downtown OKC, aka where those tall skyscrapers are, that there might not be curbside parking available - because there are other people who also want to visit and they got there first.

Its not a matter of parking, its a matter of LAZY. Im sorry, but visit any other big city and there wont be a sea of parking available downtown, if it has ANY life in it.

It's funny that OKC is just now seeing this kind of reaction, but OKC used to have a much more thriving downtown than it has today (ala a small NY or Chicago); My my my how suburban minded has OKC gotten.

As for light rail, I bet this lady wont even ride it if it were available because she would still have to walk, from her car to the platform and from the downtown platform(s) to the library and back. Surely that aint curbside parking either, and she wont be on the train to begin with.

Sorry Kerried, but these suburban types have chosen this lifestyle - you can't push that on an urban area, those skyscrapers mean more than JUST a symbol of OKC Metro Area, its the MOST URBAN of the Metro!!!

Hence, first come first serve curbside. Be thankful, in many major cities, they dont even have curbside parking on most streets (like Chicago!!, and NY).

Last time I was in OKC, I had NO TROUBLE parking - and didnt even pay for it most of the time!!!

Now if I, a tourist/visitor from Seattle, can figure it out - surely you guys in suburban Edmond can. I mean, no offense but isn't Edmond supposed to be upper class (ie smart?).

I think you are missing my point. I live in Edmond and I have no problem with parking in Bricktown. I don't want more concrete Paved Paradise concrete sprawls.

The thing that bothers me is that because this lady is from Edmond, now all those living in Edmond are 'fat and lazy' and refusing to walk.

Like I said, take the Edmonite / Edmond angle out of the picture and it would be a fair discussion.

It's the stereotype of snobby, spoiled, self indulgent people in Edmond that's being perpetrated .. it's just not true and it bothers me that one lady from Edmond complains about parking and now all of Edmond is being unfairly painted with a broad brush.

The thing that bothers me is that because this lady is from Edmond, now all those living in Edmond are 'fat and lazy' and refusing to walk.

Like I said, take the Edmonite / Edmond angle out of the picture and it would be a fair discussion.

It's the stereotype of snobby, spoiled, self indulgent people in Edmond that's being perpetrated .. it's just not true and it bothers me that one lady from Edmond complains about parking and now all of Edmond is being unfairly painted with a broad brush.

At least everybody doesn't view you as "white trash" or a "gang banger". Try saying you live in SOUTH OKC! :Smiley181 What little people usually know about an area but still want to tell you all about it.

A funny story I used to work with a lady that just moved to Norman from Nebraska. One day she was supposed to meet a client in SW OKC at a house in Lakeridge addition on the south side of SW 104th and Western Ave. She asked about half seriously if she should take her gun. I then told her that this was not far from where I live and that these houses were upwards of $300K or more, but she didn't believe me. Her response was that she had heard that all of South OKC was "drug infested gang territory" and she was seriously scared of going there.

BTW she had only been to Downtown in Oklahoma City one time and not been anywhere else in OKC as she had just moved here about a month before and lived and worked in Norman.

.... sorry, I don't mean to digress the thread.

Karried, I did make a specific reference to the lady tho not a sweeping generalization about Edmond - other than since it is a suburb you might have more people there like this woman.

But I agree, in GENERAL (lol), I think Edmong to be downtown OKC's upper crust suburb where people are very intelligent and many/most people's high incomes come from Downtown OKC. It is very very convenient (well relatively so) to commute from Edmond to Downtown for work so I think this generalization fits

I do apologize if I offended you or others from Edmond but I 'tried' to be as specific to this particular lady (and the suburb mentality) as possible.

Karried, we all know you are one of the biggest Downtown/Urban supporters!! So I definitely was not speaking directly to you (perhaps some of your neighbours, .. perhaps). :)

I gotta say..

Something funny happened today. Me, my wife and baby were going to the downtown library and lo and behold a pickup truck was pulling out of the absolute closest parking spot to the entrance of the library. I pulled in, popped a quarter in the meter and chuckled at the thought of this thread...

:)

lol

I bet the pick-up truck in downtown was pretty funny too. :)

I think you are missing my point. I live in Edmond and I have no problem with parking in Bricktown. I don't want more concrete Paved Paradise concrete sprawls.

The thing that bothers me is that because this lady is from Edmond, now all those living in Edmond are 'fat and lazy' and refusing to walk.

Like I said, take the Edmonite / Edmond angle out of the picture and it would be a fair discussion.

It's the stereotype of snobby, spoiled, self indulgent people in Edmond that's being perpetrated .. it's just not true and it bothers me that one lady from Edmond complains about parking and now all of Edmond is being unfairly painted with a broad brush.

I think you're over-reacting.

The take I took on this lady wasn't about her being fat or lazy, but rather that she's from Edmond and used to a certain way of doing things and the fact that it wasn't like that downtown bugged her and she wants things to be more what she's used to.

Like I said before, I like Edmond (and all the NW side -- I include Edmond in that just due to demographics), but I can totally see a self-absorbed Edmond type complain that they can't get valet service downtown. Stereotypes are there for a reason, I say.

No one has picked up on the fact that she mentioned "handicapped or curbside parking" in the post. Perhaps she is disabled. I haven't really been looking, but does anyone know if there are any handicapped parking spots near the library?

I for one am a southsider and I am offended that the library doesn't have a place inside for me and my gang friends to do drugs and shoot off our weapons. Also we like to do drive by's and the library downtown seems to have too many police hanging around outside and nearby.

Oh life as a southsider is so tough. nobody knows.

Hmm, I did miss the handicapt a bit.

But if she were handicapt, then why did she have all of that tone about being raped in the garage and stuff. Hostile words often do not result in kind action, and certainly she was not very kind nor constructive in what she wrote.

Like others, I assumed she was a spoiled Edmond suburbanite mom who expects the world to lay down for her just because she lives in Edmond. That when SHE comes downtown, by golly - there needs to be curbside parking for her.

Well excuse me, .... was my reaction to that.

Now if she were handicapt, i would expect a different tone from her and she would have gotten a different reaction from me (and others).

She could be the type that pops up the handicap sticker whenever it is convenient to finding a parking spot.

We all know how those Edmonites are, jk.

No one has picked up on the fact that she mentioned "handicapped or curbside parking" in the post. Perhaps she is disabled. I haven't really been looking, but does anyone know if there are any handicapped parking spots near the library?

Yes. I don' know where they are in relation to the building, but they do exisit near the building. It is the law.

And yes, stereotypes are earned, but don't paint Edmond with such a broad brush. I'm from Edmond and my family still lives there. They are nothing like that.

There are usually spots available right across from the library in front of the courthouse. The garage formerly known as the Galleria is never full - I think the only time they had "Lot Full" signs on it was during the big 12 tourney. - its closer to the library than the parallel spots across the street if you know where to park.