In The Sunday Oklahoman today, there was a large article talking about how OKC landed the 2010 U.S. Conference of Mayors meeting and it went on to say what OKC will be like by that time. Toward the end of the article, it stated that "at least five new high rises are being discussed by developers and in corporate roundtables."
I was elated when I saw "corporate roundtables" because my initial thought was Devon Energy building a new tower in the near future. I really think there is a lot of planning going on behind the scenes. I would imagine that the five towers are a combination of housing, office and hotel. Interestingly, one of the criteria for the mayors conference is a hotel that has at least 650 rooms. OKC got by with having three within a block of the Cox Center. I think one of those towers will be a convention hotel and another will be a new corporate tower for Devon. As for the other three, who knows? This is definitely an exciting time to live in OKC!!:)

Don't forget the two hotels planned for Oklahoma Medical Center. My guess is that there is one office tower and four residential towers planned. I can't wait to hear more.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I'm nearly positive that the "Devon Tower" is a rumor. I have been informed by some very credible sources that it was a rumor started on chat boards much like this one (Don't hate me...I love OKCTalk). I am sad to say this and I wish on everything that it were true, but I don't think Devon plans on building a high rise in Downtown OKC anytime in the foreseeable future.

Ok, maybe not Devon but the Mayor clearly did say that there were 5 new highrise in various stages of planning and 2 hotels near OU Medical. I am actually stuned about how few comments this post is getting.

Correction - I reread the artical and the Mayor did not say it.

I heard the same rumor from someone very high up in management at the Cox Center at a party a few weeks back.

Which same rumor, mid?

Another question to be asked is, what does the mayor consider to be a high-rise??

Perhaps one of the proposed towers is for a company that is bringing it's headquarters to OKC and it hasn't been announced yet.:) What about the MG headquarters that we haven't heard anything about in nearly a year? I once heard a "rumor" that Microsoft was moving it's headquarters to OKC from Seattle. What about Northrop-Grumman supposedly having a good chance of moving here from San Francisco? Who knows what may be going on behind the scenes. OKC has definitely moved to a different level and we are on the radar for many things.

Which same rumor, mid?

My bad -- Devon.

What about the MG headquarters that we haven't heard anything about in nearly a year?

The MG plant and headquarters plan fell through, MG decided to stick with the UK plant instead.

My bad -- Devon.

That they are or aren't?

Are... I mentioned it a few weeks ago in another thread.

The tower is supposed to be built on the site of the Santa Fe garage.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I'm nearly positive that the "Devon Tower" is a rumor. I have been informed by some very credible sources that it was a rumor started on chat boards much like this one (Don't hate me...I love OKCTalk). I am sad to say this and I wish on everything that it were true, but I don't think Devon plans on building a high rise in Downtown OKC anytime in the foreseeable future.

Blangdon, I have to agree. I've heard this from people in high up credible positions that it was a rumor started by chat boards. I wish it were wrong, and maybe in a few years it will change, but I'm not buying it as of now.

Kerry, I have one word for the reason in the "lack of posting". RUMORS

what does the mayor consider to be a high-rise??

Good question. The oklahoman considered the Centennial as a high rise, so there are clearly varying ideas of what constitutes a high rise. Does the Hampton Inn count amongst those five?

With high vacancy and low rents downtown, I don't think it's economically feasible for a company like Devon to justify building a new tower, especially at today's construction costs.

The only reason to do so would be as a long-term real estate investment.

I'll believe it when I see the cranes. Also, good point somebody made about what defines a "highrise". Five more centennial type buildings won't change the skyline like we all hope!

Malibu, that's reason enough.

The current OIL/GAS situation wont last forever. It might make sense to diversify somewhat and/or combine the hq into one major tower. Devon may look into it's interests moreso than current downtown building owners. Because of this, they might be planning to make a move to a new tower - it could be.

FYI - I never referred to the Centennial as a highrise.
-Steve

Centinneal isnt even a mid-rise, its a low-rise.

I don't think anyone was accusing slackmeyer for calling it a high-rise, but good ole boy partner News 9 did call it that. And they often refer to the CBD or downtown as Bricktown. No wonder why I don't watch News 9...

At the risk of sounding like a salesguy...
Keep reading The Oklahoman and checking NewsOK.com | Powered by The Oklahoman and NEWS 9 (http://www.newsok.com). I'm hoping to have more news on this topic in the near future.

The anchor text on newsok.com for the video below referred to it as a high rise, then changed it to mid-rise.

The video calls it a high-end high rise:

NewsOK: (http://www.newsok.com/video/26445)

But, yes, this in no way means that Steve called it a high rise. It does, however, show how dubious the claim there are "5 new high rises in the works" can be.

Low Rise - less than 5 storeys, small or medium or large footprint
Mid Rise - Less than 12 storeys, small or medium footprint
High Rise - Over 12 storeys, small or medium footprint
Skyscraper - Over 25 storeys, medium footprint
Over 15 storeys, small footprint

That may not totally be "official" but I think it is a good guidebook.

Some small footprint buildings that are 8 storeys look like highrises and some that are medium look like midrises. Emporis calls a highrise anything over 12 storeys, my ranking/hypothesis is probably pretty close.

Okay, so with HOT ROD's definition of High Rise, that means a High Rise is between 12-24 stories. The Renaissance Hotel is about 17/18 stories if you count the glass roof. Many on this board have discounted it as being insignificant, not changing the skyline, not a real high-rise, etc. However, by these "unofficial" definitions they are a high-rise. Yes, I'd love a new 30+ story tower, however, you can't tell me 5 12+ story buildings wouldn't change OKC's skyline.

When I think of a "skyline changing building", I think of something that I can see five miles away on I-35 when I'm approaching the city, or from a hill overlooking downtown in Northeast OKC. I don't think five (or even ten) story buildings necessarily get that done. They definitely do help with density issues and can mean that we get some great new space downtown, but "skyline changing"? I don't think so.

On a totally seperate note, how is the office space in the Kerr-McGee buildings classified? A? B? A combination? Just wondering...

I was trying to make a list with my kids a few weeks back about how many building outside of downtown that have 10 or more stories. I live close to the NWE and we counted over 10 just standing in the Target parking lot. Just think how all of those buildings would change the downtown skyline if only the were about 5 miles south.

When I think of a "skyline changing building", I think of something that I can see five miles away on I-35 when I'm approaching the city, or from a hill overlooking downtown in Northeast OKC. I don't think five (or even ten) story buildings necessarily get that done. They definitely do help with density issues and can mean that we get some great new space downtown, but "skyline changing"? I don't think so.

On a totally seperate note, how is the office space in the Kerr-McGee buildings classified? A? B? A combination? Just wondering...

Actually we were talking about 12-24 story buildings. Not 5-10.

Back to Devon and trying to think things through from a positive perspective, here's some reasons they might benefit from building a tower:

1. Consolidate all employees into one building
2. Being an owner rather than paying rent to others
3. Bold corporate statement and great status symbol
4. Provide beautiful setting for employees
5. Lack of available Class A space downtown
6. Current climate of cooperation and incentives from OKC leadership

Also, although CBD rents are still pretty low, most the Class A buildings are well occupied. In fact, Leadership Square is really the only true Class A building down there. I know others such as Oklahoma Tower are listed as such, but those building don't compare well with those of the same category in other cities.

Well if these 5 buildings are the same old crap that we've known about then I'm not excited at all. Some hotels, a few things at OU Med Center...blah blah.

Give me a new 40 story SKYSCRAPER downtown, then I'll be excited. If we could get people to stop building crap up on Memorial (where the CEO's are 5 minutes from their homes in Gallardia), then we might actually get the development we want.

If Devon doesn't build a new HQ Highrise, it is saying that they don't plan to be here in the future. There have been rumors that that would sell out, maybe there is something to those rumors. I mean why build a new highrise HQ if you will be leaving Okc??

I was trying to make a list with my kids a few weeks back about how many building outside of downtown that have 10 or more stories. I live close to the NWE and we counted over 10 just standing in the Target parking lot. Just think how all of those buildings would change the downtown skyline if only the were about 5 miles south.

I agree COKC. Just imagine how nice downtown would be if every building over 10 stories was located downtown.

What exactly is the definition of Class A office space?

This is from the Guide to Real Estate Terms: Office Space Glossary (http://www.officefinder.com/glossary.html) or BOMA International - Building Class Definitions (http://www.boma.org/Research/classifications.htm)

Class A Building classification system; defined by BOMA as the most prestigious buildings competing for premier office users with above average rental rates for the area along with high-quality standard finishes, state of the art systems, exceptional accessibility and a definite market presence

Class B Building classification; defined by BOMA as buildings competing for a wide range of users with rents in the average range for the area. Building finishes are fair to good for the area and the systems are adequate, but the building does not compete with Class A at the same price.

Class C Building classification; defined by BOMA as buildings competing for tenants requiring functional space at rents below the average for the area.

That's extremely descriptive.

Imagine how stupid the NW Expressway would look if it didn't have any highrise office and residential towers and they were all downtown instead.

It's funny how we have shifted from caring a lot about every single development to sort of turning our noses at little things like new downtown hotels and other projects we would have considered major as recently as 2005.

I'll define the classes in a little more laymen term for you:

Class A - great services for telecom/water/hvac/etc. the place looks like, doesn't stink, the kind of place you would like a corporation to be in. For example, something like Leadership Square is I believe, class A (correct me please if I'm wrong).

Class B - this is more typical of an office building like you would find all over the place. Nothing special or fancy to write home about but it does the job and you don't really complain about it.

Class C - this stuff is cheaper because it can't push anything higher. The space needs work and definitely needs to be brought up to date. Probably has some leaks, a smell, or just generally has gone into disrepair. Given some effort, it would be brough up easily into B or even A....ie First National.

So Downtown the Class A would be Leadership and Devon's Building.
On NWE it would be 50 Penn and I assume the Valero Building.
What about the stand alone offices in office parks? I am thinking specifically about the ones being built behind the Belle Isle Wal-Mart where the new Pearls is located. These can be purchased or rented if I understand correctly. Or are we only talking high rises that have these classifications. I guess I am asking if you can purchase class A or is it only for rent. For example, I know that the 123 Park Avenue building went condo. I am only interested in this because my husband and I would like to move our accounting office in the next year and have been looking around at the available property recently.

I've been inside 50 Penn and I doubt it's Class A.

Union Plaza probably is though, and Valliance Bank.

My husband used to work in 50 Penn and his floor was definitely Class A. Maybe it is possible that some tenants put more work into making their spaces look nicer.

I would say that 5 new high-rise towers could be in OKC by 2035. But to think that any of it really sprouting in the next few years would be a bit ambitious I would say. It's become far to trendy to build office parks like CHK's than to build giant "skyscrapers" that are usually empty. Just a thought...

Nobody's building office parks like Chesapeake's except Chesapeake.

I wish we could see downtown development in the form of towers like every city in the country is facing with a few exceptions.

Imagine how stupid the NW Expressway would look if it didn't have any highrise office and residential towers and they were all downtown instead.

That would be awesome. The Expressway would still look stupid and downtown would be thriving.


It's become far to trendy to build office parks like CHK's than to build giant "skyscrapers" that are usually empty. Just a thought...

???

There are still plenty of skyscrapers being built that have offices in them that are not empty. You do see more mixed use and residential towers these days, but, if anything, the trend is going the other way and campus development is giving way to a return to urban development as a result of many cities revitalizing their cores over the last 15-20 years.