Service expresses interest in closed GM plant - Military News, Air Force News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Air Force Times (http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/06/ap_tinkergmplant_070609/)


OKLAHOMA CITY — The General Motors Assembly Plant, shuttered for more than a year, has caught the eye of the U.S. Air Force, which is exploring ways that the 3.8-million-square-foot facility might by used by the adjacent Tinker Air Force Base, officials said Friday.

Roy Williams, president and chief executive officer of the Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce, said Air Force officials and administrators at Tinker have been studying possible new missions and military uses for the mammoth structure.

“Naturally, because it abuts Tinker, Tinker inquired about it,” Williams said.

In a visit to Oklahoma City last month, Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne met with Gov. Brad Henry to discuss the future of the vacant assembly plant, authorities said. No money has been appropriated by Congress to buy the plant and its conversion to a military facility might involve the state, Williams said.

“They are all discussing this,” Williams said. “We’re enthused and excited about this opportunity. We think it’s very serious.”

The plant’s price tag has not been disclosed, Williams said. A spokeswoman for GM in Detroit, Janine Fruehan, did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press seeking comment.

Tinker, home of the Oklahoma City Air Logistics Center and the primary maintenance center for a wide range of bomber and fighter aircraft, employs about 24,000 people and is already the state’s largest single site employer.

The GM plant produced extended versions of Chevrolet TrailBlazers and GMC Envoys before it closed in February 2006 after 27 years. It’s surrounded by paved acreage that can accommodate up to 3,000 vehicles, Williams said.

GM shut down production in a cost-cutting move, the first of 12 facilities the company planned to shutter by 2008 as it struggled to survive and bring production in line with market demand.

The Oklahoma City plant employed 2,400 people.

Williams said GM was contractually prohibited from disposing of the plant for two years after announcing it would be closed, a period that will expire in September. GM has previously said it would not sell the plant to a competing auto manufacturer, he said.

“All of a sudden, the uses of it become pretty narrow,” Williams said.

Guys, this buy could be huge for Oklahoma City. With so many bases falling to BRAC, Tinker could pick up a closing base's mission, adding more jobs (military and civilian) to Oklahoma City. The Department of Defense is trying to consolidate its resources and create bigger bases that can fulfill more than one mission.

In my opinion, there will only be about a dozen air bases around the country in fifty years. I think the smaller bases will close down and those missions will be moved to giant bases that operate under a Joint Service Command. Those cities without the bases will surely feel the sting, as anyone who lives in a military town can testify. Those metros who host these giant bases will enjoy the benefit of having a secure employer and tons of federal funds. I may be way off, but this is just what I foresee based on my experience with the military and its direction. BRAC is absolutely killing some smaller cities, and I'm really glad we're fortunate enough to have Tinker as an asset.

Plus, it is my understanding that Tinker was once being considered for BRAC. Adding more to a base ensures that mission will likely stay.

You are exactly right about the military considations and it might actually present an opportunity for OKC & Tinker.

You've got to know the old GM plant could be had ultra-cheap... There aren't many uses for it, that's for sure.

Precisely. DOD has to be chomping at the bit realizing how much they could do with nearly four million square feet, especially when they can get it for so cheap. It would take a while for things to happen, but if the Air Force buys the building and decides to put it to use, it could mean thousands of jobs and millions in federal dollars.

I'd really like to own some land near there right about now.

I could see Lockheed or another Air Force contractor buying the site to build aircraft but I am not sure that I agree it could be bought for cheap. When is the last time the federal government bought anything cheaply? Plus, GM needs the money. They will at least want what they put into the plant. Just 4 years ago it went through a $700,000,000 retooling. The new paint shop alone cost $250 million. I'll bet that this plant would cost in excess of $1 billion. Of course, you can probably get members of congress from Michigan to go for it - sort of a GM bailout.

This'll probably be a pretty bad deal for the schools. If Tinker takes that land over, the schools are going to miss out on a lot of the property tax money.

As much as GM may need the money, the value of a property is only that which someone else is willing to pay.

There are disfavorable aspects to that site for any large-scale manufacturing and nobody does much more of that sort of thing anyway -- at least in this country. And there are still substantial carrying costs that I'm sure GM is anxious to shed.

If nothing else, it could be used for warehouse and logistics, as Tinker is situated almost exactly in the middle of the country.

There is the possibility that GM could use the plant in the future. While they are trying to reduce capacity to meet demand, at sompoint they will achieve that goal and have to start expanding again.

Honestly, who else would use a plant that large besides the military or the automotive industry.

I know the mayor has his heart in the right place but, no one else could use a space that large.

GM has already stated that it will not sale the plant to another Automaker. They are not going to take the chance of letting that plant land in the hands of Honda, Toyota or Nissan or even worse the new Chinese dipos-a- car that is rumored to cost under ten thousand fully loaded.

If I was the mayor I would be helping Tinker sell the idea to the government and GM. GM could work out a deal to sell it cheap and write off the rest of the asking price. An offer like that would free up a huge chunk of debt for GM.

Tax dollars are a BIG HUGE thing here. While we would all agree that anything to help solidify Tinker's place is overwhelming, Mid-Del lost a massive amount of money because of this. The tax money that went to Mid-Del totalled a hefty sum, and we can feel it this year in the budget cuts. All that ad-valorum reimbursement stuff really affects Mid-Del as well, so when that gets underfunded then we see things like that 2002-2003 school year...AHHH!

I'm all for helping Tinker get in, but remember that it won't mean any new jobs either. They would move mostly existing jobs over there...like engine servicing. I'm still hoping that someone else can really utilize the facility and bring back some of those thousands of jobs that were lost.

Tax dollars are a BIG HUGE thing here. While we would all agree that anything to help solidify Tinker's place is overwhelming, Mid-Del lost a massive amount of money because of this. The tax money that went to Mid-Del totalled a hefty sum, and we can feel it this year in the budget cuts. All that ad-valorum reimbursement stuff really affects Mid-Del as well, so when that gets underfunded then we see things like that 2002-2003 school year...AHHH!

I'm all for helping Tinker get in, but remember that it won't mean any new jobs either. They would move mostly existing jobs over there...like engine servicing. I'm still hoping that someone else can really utilize the facility and bring back some of those thousands of jobs that were lost.

Respectfully, I disagree; not with your reasoning for being against it, but with your assessment that it wouldn't create any new jobs. I don't think there is anyway the AF could fill four million square feet with equipment that is currently sitting just fine in shops or warehouses. In addition, I don't think there's any way the AF would under-utilize such a structure in the first place. If the Air Force is thinking about buying four million square feet, they have some big plans for it.

Like I mentioned earlier, in order to consolidate its resources and save money, the Air Force is closing bases and moving those missions to bigger and more capable bases. Tinker would most likely benefit from another city's misfortunes and while that sounds cannibalistic, that's how the government works. When the oil profits dried up in the eighties, Tinker was there and going strong. Tinker will always be a major employer in OKC and we need to keep it that way. If Tinker takes on more missions, that only ensures that it won't fall to BRAC. GM let us down, but Tinker won't let that happen. Trust me, this move would create more jobs, both military and civilian.

I thought GM had a property tax expemtion on the plant. I tried looking on the propert appraiser web site couldn't find a record for the GM plant.

I thought GM had a property tax expemtion on the plant. I tried looking on the propert appraiser web site couldn't find a record for the GM plant.

That was promised to them -- illegally, I might add by a public trust. They came, built, got sued and now pay taxes on that land :)

AFCM nailed it....OKC metro only has a handful of major employers and my thinking is whatever Tinker wants Tinker should get unless it's just completely unreasonable

GM has previously said it would not sell the plant to a competing auto manufacturer, he said

It's all yours Tinker...Appreciate ya

That broken promise hurt Oklahoma for a long time. Hopefully its been long enough for prospective businesses to forget but not so long our negotiators have forgotten. Better not to promise what you cannot deliver.

As to Tinker, I'm a little afraid that we'd be putting all of our eggs into one basket. If BRAC comes calling and decides to shut down Tinker, if we've given all of these assets over to them, we're in one heap of trouble.

That broken promise hurt Oklahoma for a long time. Hopefully its been long enough for prospective businesses to forget but not so long our negotiators have forgotten. Better not to promise what you cannot deliver.

The OIA made Gene Stipe look like an angel.

As to Tinker, I'm a little afraid that we'd be putting all of our eggs into one basket. If BRAC comes calling and decides to shut down Tinker, if we've given all of these assets over to them, we're in one heap of trouble.

Similar to what will happen when or if Chesapeake gets bought out :eek:

Chesapeake is a little different -- they are acquiring their own property without any help from the city.

What we're talking about is facilitating and perhaps subsidizing? A transaction between a private company and the military.

I'm not even sure what role the city has to play in Tinker's acquisition of the GM Plant. If the military wants to purchase it, they need only do so. Is the city being asked to pay for part of this?

As to Tinker, I'm a little afraid that we'd be putting all of our eggs into one basket. If BRAC comes calling and decides to shut down Tinker, if we've given all of these assets over to them, we're in one heap of trouble.

I understand your concerns Midtowner, but I don't think that will happen. Tinker seems to be one of those bases that the Air Force just can't do without. If they gain a new mission, they become even more valuable to the Air Force. As for BRAC, the old saying applies: "If you ain't growing, you're dying".

When DOD closes a base, the missions doesn't go away, rather it moves to a consolidated wing. Basically, the Air Force believes they can save money by doing the same thing at another location. As long as Tinker keeps growing, they'll be looked at as the composite base the Air Force can't shut down, as opposed to a base who's next in line for the plank.

Tax dollars are a BIG HUGE thing here. While we would all agree that anything to help solidify Tinker's place is overwhelming, Mid-Del lost a massive amount of money because of this. The tax money that went to Mid-Del totalled a hefty sum, and we can feel it this year in the budget cuts. All that ad-valorum reimbursement stuff really affects Mid-Del as well, so when that gets underfunded then we see things like that 2002-2003 school year...AHHH!

I'm all for helping Tinker get in, but remember that it won't mean any new jobs either. They would move mostly existing jobs over there...like engine servicing. I'm still hoping that someone else can really utilize the facility and bring back some of those thousands of jobs that were lost.


The GM plant is not even located in Midwest City. The City limits of MWC end at SE 29th St. Tinker is not even in MWC.

Somebdy my correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that when the big education bill (1017?) passed in the mid 90's that schools stopped benefiting directly from things located in their town, instead goes into the state pot.

I know Harrah always had very nice schools (indoor swimming pool etc., ) because of an OG&E power plant located there. But that money stopped coming to them when the bill passed.

GM is still paying the taxes on the building even though they aren't occupying it.

Drake, I think a city could still get that land (and the taxes therefrom) by annexation. I'm not real "up" on Oklahoma annexation law, but it's generally pretty liberal in what it allows.

As for paying taxes even though they're not occupying the property... well, that's going to happen because ad valorem taxes are based on the value of the land, not its current use.

Drake, I think a city could still get that land (and the taxes therefrom) by annexation. I'm not real "up" on Oklahoma annexation law, but it's generally pretty liberal in what it allows.

As for paying taxes even though they're not occupying the property... well, that's going to happen because ad valorem taxes are based on the value of the land, not its current use.

I was just referencing Bomber post about Mid-Del schools losing out on money.

GM wasn't ever in MWC city limits.

Correct, GM is way out of MWC, but the Mid-Del district is in that area. That is why it goes to Mid-Del. City boundaries don't have anything to do with it since Mid-Del stretches into Del City, Choctaw, and OKC. Even in MWC, you have Mid-Del Schools, OKC, Choctaw, Crutcho, etc.

Moore was always annoyed they didn't get any of the cash from GM because of the district lines. Even though I'm sure a lot GM employees live on that part of Sooner that goes to Moore.

Sorry to bring up a dead post, but I heard from a few folks on base that the AF has already aquired the old GM plant and is currently gutting the place in preparation for military use. Other than that, I haven't seen any actual stories from the media regarding the possible aquisition.

Anyways, I've been a big supporter of Tinker and I've mentioned before how I want Tinker to pick up the missions of dying bases who have fallen to BRAC. To shed a little light on the benefits of that happening, here is an article from the Air Force Times.



San Antonio booming from BRAC

By Michelle Roberts - The Associated Press
Posted : Friday Jan 11, 2008 12:06:27 EST

SAN ANTONIO — Congressional orders that close and realign military bases are cause for panic in some communities, but not in San Antonio, which calls itself “Military City, USA.”

The fifth and latest round of the base realignment and closure, ordered by Congress in 2005, includes an estimated $2.1 billion in renovations and construction at Army and Air Force installations here. The projects are set to be completed by 2011.

Nearly 5,000 military jobs will be moved to the city, which already enjoys a large Defense Department presence.

“BRAC has really been good thing for San Antonio,” said Mayor Phil Hardberger, acknowledging that it has been “a thing of fear and loathing” for many communities.

The realignment will most affect Fort Sam Houston, a 131-year old garrison in the middle of San Antonio. The base, headquarters for the Army’s medical command, will become the center for all Defense Department medical training and research.

The facility will also become the headquarters for the command that oversees Army post infrastructure worldwide.

Military officials were set to break ground Friday on a new $92 million Battlefield Health and Trauma Center, which will combine research in all areas of battlefield medicine, from dentistry to plastic surgery to prosthetics. It is the largest project to date and starts a building boom expected to span the next couple of years.

While officials add and renovate new buildings, they are working to plan and effectively zone the 2,900-acre post, said Col. Wendy Martinson, the garrison commander who is overseeing the massive project.

“This is our one chance to get it right,” she said.

About 25,000 people work at Fort Sam Houston; that number will climb by nearly 11,000.

The growing military presence has city planners and government officials weighing such needs as road improvements and new schools. The new work force is expected to add about 9,000 children to area schools.

“There’s a lot of moving parts,” said Richard Perez, the president and chief executive of the Greater San Antonio Chamber of Commerce.

But no one in San Antonio is complaining.

Even without the added personnel, the nation’s seventh-largest city estimates that military personnel, retirees and civilian workers — and the businesses that follow them — pump more than $13 billion into the local economy. Nearly one in four jobs in San Antonio is linked to the Defense Department.

The city hasn’t always benefited from BRAC.

In the 1995 round, Kelly Air Force Base on the southwest side of the city was shuttered. So when Congress made plans for another round a decade later, the city, county and chamber began lobbying to avoid another closure, Hardberger said.

“When they closed Kelly, it was kind of wake-up call to San Antonio,” he said. “We started worrying about it.”

The community’s lobbying efforts paid off better than expected, local officials agree.
San Antonio booming from BRAC - Air Force News, opinions, editorials, news from Iraq, photos, reports - Air Force Times (http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/01/ap_sanantonio_080111/)



As for the final sentences talking about San Antonio lobbying to keep the military there, I remember MWC and OKC doing the same. Here's to a long happy marriage between Tinker and OKC!

I hope your sources are correct. One of our computer techs at work was one of the last people working to shutter the plant for GM. He told me Hyundai and Nissan were wanting to buy the plant from GM.

oneforone, its been made public several times that Tinker has "expressed interest" in the old GM plant. Now whether or not that means much is unknown, however I doubt Tinker would come on record if they weren't halfway serious about purchasing it.

Don't be so sure. Remember the city is actually pushing for a non-military user for the facility so they can still get tax dollars out of the place. I'm pretty sure MWC and Mid-Del are hoping the same way for that cash flow.

It's a huge plot of land that really helps to pad Tinker, but at the same time, they would need to do some MAJOR renovations to retool the place to something they can use effectively. A maintenance depot doesn't work quite the same as an assembly plant. Plus with some of the work by vendors like Boeing being moved off site (across the street), how would that work in?

Of course there's a possibility that an entirely new airplane could be serviced here with that new space. Who knows?

I'm not doubting you Bomber, but I've heard from several folks on base that the aquisition has already taken place. Then again, if the plant was taken over, I'm sure it would've made the headlines. I'm not sure what to think. While I agree that a car manufacturer coming in would help the city, don't forget to read the article about how San Antonio is benefitting from other bases falling to BRAC.

Even if Tinker doesn't get a new mission, this helps to ensure Tinker won't fall to BRAC. Tinker is of very high value to DOD, and where there is DOD, there are big bucks. When the GM plant shut down, 2,300 people lost their jobs. If Tinker were to fall, close to 18,000 civilian jobs would go with it. That's more than SEVEN times the hit. Plus, you can wave goodbye to the 10,000 or so military men and women who add to the local economy as well. In all, Tinker employs nearly 30,000 people and stands as the largest single-site employer in this great state.

I promise you losing Tinker would hurt more than losing GM or any other car manufacturer for that matter. I would rather OKC secure the DOD presence by being supportive rather than see a vacant plant sit as an eyesore for years to come.

I respect your opinion bomber, and count me as biased because I'm AF, but I would rather Tinker take over the old GM plant. Just my thoughts.

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other. Both sides make excellent points....and I do agree that I would like to do whatever we can to make sure that Tinker stays absolutely. I just wish there was some way that the schools could get some cash flow back from the area. If Tinker takes it, it's just gone in a flash and no one will ever see it again. Since it's not commercial or anyhthing close to it, I don't think it would even make it to ad-valorum reimbursement.

Unfortunately, Mid-Del has a large % come from that fund and when it get hit, the district really suffers. The punch a few years ago (02-03 or something) was mostly from the govt. not being able to fill the fund. They had their own funding shortfalls, but it trickles hard when things get shuffled around like this.