View Full Version : Doctors Overpaid?



Karried
06-07-2007, 10:55 AM
I never understood how grim not having health insurance can be... we've never been self employed before moving to OKC and wow.. what a horrible intro to medical costs.

I really took it for granted having health insurance.

Now, we have a useless policy with a huge deductible that we still pay over $344 a month for strictly for catastropic medical emergencies or hospital stays.

This is what bothers me.... my husband went in for a in-office visit.. he was quoted one price when they thought we had insurance... when we explained that we were self pay essentially, the price changed and lowered quite a bit.

What's up with that? Reaming the insurance companies?

Also, I can't believe what they pay Doctors and what they charge for the simplest things.

My son got 3 stitches last month... the bill? $453 Mercy After Hours... the clerk says, 'it shouldn't be more than $200 " and then the bill arrived - more than doubled what he said.

This last month, we've spent nearly $1,900.00 and we still haven't reached our deductible.

It really stresses me out.

PUGalicious
06-07-2007, 10:57 AM
It's not the doctors who are overpaid... it's an out-of-control profit-driven healthcare system.

bandnerd
06-07-2007, 11:58 AM
Exactly...the money from those procedures doesn't pay doctors that much, if anything at all.

jbrown84
06-07-2007, 01:51 PM
If it's a semi-public clinic like OU Physicians, the university takes a huge chunk of all the billing.

Midtowner
06-08-2007, 03:55 PM
I don't think doctors are paid enough.

They have to put up with a hell of a lot of school.

The trouble is that the medical industry has an enormous overhead -- and that overhead is expanding, especially in the area of executive salaries.

How many doctors have to work so that the CEO of a hospital group can take home a 50 million in stock options?

rugbybrado
07-18-2007, 06:55 AM
It's not the doctors who are overpaid... it's an out-of-control profit-driven healthcare system.

ditto..

i dislike micheal moore but watch sicko when it comes out on video, its a good movie that addresses simular cases to yours. the whole system is just way out of control.

Karried
10-01-2007, 04:57 PM
Just got another letter today saying our premium ( which we've never used once btw) is going up again ( rising health costs)!

I need a recommendation and quick.. anyone have a company they use that is reasonable?

I have Golden Rule or as I fondly call them - Golden Ream..

Help! Who can recommend a decent insurance company for the self-employed ?

Christi
12-03-2007, 07:29 AM
Have you tried getting a quote from Blue Cross/Blue Shield? They have a good program called "Health Check Select" or something similar to that. I don't know what the prices are like for adults, but a few years ago I had this plan for my son and it was around $40-45 a month. www.bcbsok.com

betts
12-03-2007, 09:32 AM
Anybody seen what kind of perks the CEOs of insurance companies are getting? That's what makes me mad....we're paying almost $2,000 a month for insurance and their offices are wood paneled suites, getting bonuses of millions of dollars. It's not the doctors who are paid too much, it's the insurance executives.

TastyThaiRibs
02-20-2008, 03:11 PM
too true, ceo executives probably don't have to pay over a hundred k in tuition loans plus whatever interest accumulates, and definately not malpractice insurance.

Patrick
02-20-2008, 03:15 PM
By the time I get finished, I will have been in training almost 15 years, beyond high school.

jsenter
02-26-2008, 03:43 PM
Patrick, you chose to go through all of that schooling.

Doctors are no more important than the greeters at Wal-Mart. Everyone serves their purpose in life.

I don't think doctors should get paid as much as they do.

Midtowner
02-26-2008, 03:47 PM
Patrick, you chose to go through all of that schooling.

Doctors are no more important than the greeters at Wal-Mart. Everyone serves their purpose in life.

I don't think doctors should get paid as much as they do.

From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs, eh Comrade?

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/communism-17373.jpg?1173261778

jsenter
02-26-2008, 03:52 PM
Mid, now you know that's not true. If that were true, someone like Patrick, whose gone through all of that schooling would be making more than Britney Spears or Kobe Bryant. People in Hollywood don't have near the abilities that a doctor has.

Still, medical costs are too high. If we paid doctors less, medical bills would decrease.

betts
02-26-2008, 03:58 PM
No, no, no., cutting doctor's fees will not make a difference. I'm going to post something here I posted elsewhere. If anyone has read it before, I apologize.

I'm a physician, so I realize I've probably lost half my audience with that statement. But, it does give me a window into the health care system. I don't have any magical solutions, unfortunately, but I can point out some things not everyone might realize or think about.

First of all, physician reimbursement makes up about 5 to 10% of all health care costs. Reimbursement for physician fees has been lowered for many procedures, others have been kept stable and most of the rest allowed below cost of living rise increases over the last ten to 15 years. Physicians who perform procedures, especially operations, are far better compensated for the care they provide, meaning that the physicians who treat you with their hands have much higher incomes than those that use their brains. (Old medical joke, but there's a frightening amount of truth to it). Since physician fees are such a small portion of health care costs, it would seem logical that lowering their fees would be the worst way to realize savings, but the other health care sectors have had virtually no control on prices, and that is why health care costs have risen so alarmingly.

As an example, were you in the ICU with pneumonia, the most your physician treating you could charge you for his care in a 24 hour period is around $100. The antibiotics being used to treat the pneumonia could total as much as $3,0000. The room charge from the hospital might be comparable to the antibiotic fees.

The price of pharmaceuticals and medical equipment far surpass anything most doctors are able to charge, as does the cost of hospital care. I believe, if we wish to help stop the rise in health care costs, that is where we need to start. Many physicians, by virtue of the freezes or low cost of living increases, coupled with tripling of malpractice fees and no freezes on overhead costs, are making half or less of what they made 15 years ago. Many are still working 10 to 14 hour days. So, even if you believe that physicians are overcompensated, I do not believe their reimbursement is where reduction in health care costs needs to start.

The government, in an attempt to contain costs, has instituted all sorts of oversights of physician charges. This has generated a massive beaurocracy, and it would not shock me were I to learn that the cost of the oversight meets or exceeds the savings generated.

If you look at the fact that the government has been cutting physicians fees regularly for years, or allowing increases less than the annual rise in cost of living, the fact that medical costs are still rising at an alarming rate demonstrates that cutting physician fees has little if any effect on health care cost containment.

Midtowner
02-26-2008, 04:11 PM
Mid, now you know that's not true. If that were true, someone like Patrick, whose gone through all of that schooling would be making more than Britney Spears or Kobe Bryant. People in Hollywood don't have near the abilities that a doctor has.

Still, medical costs are too high. If we paid doctors less, medical bills would decrease.

There are lots of docs, but only one Britney Spears.

*gag*

I'm not trying to be flippant, really, your comparison is off base. These entertainers/athletes provide a unique product and are paid at a rate the market determines. To say that they're not worth what they're worth goes against all the facts -- Spears and Bryant are paid those millions because that's what people are willing to pay so that they'll do what they do. Are you going to question the business judgment of someone who is willing to fork over that kind of cash for a service? Do you not think the Lakers or Spears' production company profit from their services? Would you argue that either Spears or Bryant produce less than your average doctor?

What exactly is your argument? We're not paid in America based upon how long we've been to college. We're paid what we're worth.

Karried
02-26-2008, 04:16 PM
but only one Britney Spears.

And Thank God for that.

windowphobe
02-26-2008, 05:24 PM
What I want to know is this: How much does Kobe Bryant's doctor make?

betts
02-26-2008, 06:00 PM
Patrick, you chose to go through all of that schooling.

Doctors are no more important than the greeters at Wal-Mart. Everyone serves their purpose in life.

I don't think doctors should get paid as much as they do.

If I get paid like a greeter at Walmart, do I get their hours too? When you start paying doctors like greeters, don't be thinking you can go to the ER at 3 a.m. for a problem, or that they'll be checking in on grandma on Saturday when she's in the hospital. Also, why be a doctor if you get paid like a greeter? Why go through 8 years of college and med school and three to eight years of residency? Why be on call every fourth night, up all night, and every single weekend during your entire residency? I'd rather be a greeter for the same money and start right out of high school.

Just my perspective.

jsenter
02-26-2008, 06:28 PM
There are lots of docs, but only one Britney Spears.

*gag*

I'm not trying to be flippant, really, your comparison is off base. These entertainers/athletes provide a unique product and are paid at a rate the market determines. To say that they're not worth what they're worth goes against all the facts -- Spears and Bryant are paid those millions because that's what people are willing to pay so that they'll do what they do. Are you going to question the business judgment of someone who is willing to fork over that kind of cash for a service? Do you not think the Lakers or Spears' production company profit from their services? Would you argue that either Spears or Bryant produce less than your average doctor?

What exactly is your argument? We're not paid in America based upon how long we've been to college. We're paid what we're worth.


Doctors save lives everyday, and many hold lives in their hands everyday. Meanwhile, Britney acts absurd, and collects a fat paycheck for doing so.

Yes, I'd say Spears and Bryant produce less than doctors. Life would go on without Spears and Bryant. Lives are saved by doctors.

If we're paid on what we're worth, Spears deserves nothing. She's worthless.

jsenter
02-26-2008, 06:31 PM
If I get paid like a greeter at Walmart, do I get their hours too? When you start paying doctors like greeters, don't be thinking you can go to the ER at 3 a.m. for a problem, or that they'll be checking in on grandma on Saturday when she's in the hospital. Also, why be a doctor if you get paid like a greeter? Why go through 8 years of college and med school and three to eight years of residency? Why be on call every fourth night, up all night, and every single weekend during your entire residency? I'd rather be a greeter for the same money and start right out of high school.

Just my perspective.

Greeters at Wal-Mart work all hours of the day just like doctors, so moot point.

Why go through all that schooling and training? Because many want to be doctors because that's what they enjoy doing. They enjoy helping people and saving lives. You must be in it for the money though, or so it sounds.

By the way, if you really work all of these hours, how do you have so much time to participate here?

jsenter
02-26-2008, 06:33 PM
No, no, no., cutting doctor's fees will not make a difference. I'm going to post something here I posted elsewhere. If anyone has read it before, I apologize.

I'm a physician, so I realize I've probably lost half my audience with that statement. But, it does give me a window into the health care system. I don't have any magical solutions, unfortunately, but I can point out some things not everyone might realize or think about.

First of all, physician reimbursement makes up about 5 to 10% of all health care costs. Reimbursement for physician fees has been lowered for many procedures, others have been kept stable and most of the rest allowed below cost of living rise increases over the last ten to 15 years. Physicians who perform procedures, especially operations, are far better compensated for the care they provide, meaning that the physicians who treat you with their hands have much higher incomes than those that use their brains. (Old medical joke, but there's a frightening amount of truth to it). Since physician fees are such a small portion of health care costs, it would seem logical that lowering their fees would be the worst way to realize savings, but the other health care sectors have had virtually no control on prices, and that is why health care costs have risen so alarmingly.

As an example, were you in the ICU with pneumonia, the most your physician treating you could charge you for his care in a 24 hour period is around $100. The antibiotics being used to treat the pneumonia could total as much as $3,0000. The room charge from the hospital might be comparable to the antibiotic fees.

The price of pharmaceuticals and medical equipment far surpass anything most doctors are able to charge, as does the cost of hospital care. I believe, if we wish to help stop the rise in health care costs, that is where we need to start. Many physicians, by virtue of the freezes or low cost of living increases, coupled with tripling of malpractice fees and no freezes on overhead costs, are making half or less of what they made 15 years ago. Many are still working 10 to 14 hour days. So, even if you believe that physicians are overcompensated, I do not believe their reimbursement is where reduction in health care costs needs to start.

The government, in an attempt to contain costs, has instituted all sorts of oversights of physician charges. This has generated a massive beaurocracy, and it would not shock me were I to learn that the cost of the oversight meets or exceeds the savings generated.

If you look at the fact that the government has been cutting physicians fees regularly for years, or allowing increases less than the annual rise in cost of living, the fact that medical costs are still rising at an alarming rate demonstrates that cutting physician fees has little if any effect on health care cost containment.

Look at the lifestyle most doctors live. They drive fancy cars and live in huge houses, and make 6 figure incomes, while we're paying for the rest of our life for that unexpected surgery we had to have. Maybe if we cut out all of that extravagant living and made doctors live like ordinary citizens, we wouldn't be paying so much for healthcare.

Karried is right. "Also, I can't believe what they pay Doctors and what they charge for the simplest things. "

Patrick
02-26-2008, 07:12 PM
jsenter, we're not in it for the money, but I think it's nice to be fairly compensated for my training, education, etc. Although I'm not in it for the money (trust me, I'd do something else if I wanted to make big bucks), I do think that for all of the work I've done, I deserve getting paid more than a WalMart greeter.

Would I be a doctor if it paid the same as a WalMart greeter? Probably not. Too much responsiblity, liability, too much education, etc. That's not to say I wouldn't want to do the job. It's saying that, I couldn't see going through all of that schooling when I could get paid the same being a WalMart greeter.

And betts is right. Physicians get very little of the actual bill spent for services. Most of the money goes to insurance companies, corporate hospital giants, pharmaceutical companies, etc.

PennyQuilts
02-26-2008, 07:26 PM
The observation that there is one price for insured and another for noninsured helps make the case that giving health insurance to everyone, at goverment expense, does nothing but put money in the pockets of the health care industry. I don't say that I have an answer because I don't.

PennyQuilts
02-26-2008, 07:28 PM
<<Look at the lifestyle most doctors live. They drive fancy cars and live in huge houses, and make 6 figure incomes, while we're paying for the rest of our life for that unexpected surgery we had to have. Maybe if we cut out all of that extravagant living and made doctors live like ordinary citizens, we wouldn't be paying so much for healthcare. >>


How would you "make" doctors live like ordinary citizens? That is kind of a scary proposition. Are we going to garnish their wages? Jail them? This is American, after all. We all make choices on how we are going to live and where we are going to devote our time and resources. Doctors made a choice to get a medical education and devoted their time, energy and money in that direction. Someone who chose to go into a different direction or didn't put the effort in to be paid well really is not in a position to complain, seems to me. I know a young doctor and she wasn't born with a silver spoon in her mouth and did not come from a family with doctors in the family. She worked hard, saved her money, put off short term gratification and got that MD. She will be paying off loans for years.

betts
02-26-2008, 08:51 PM
I actually have enough time to post here because I took a leave of absence and decided to stay home for a few years with a son I'd not gotten to spend much time with when he was young.

I understand people questioning why some professions make more money than others, but I've not seen anyone questioning why lawyers make so much money, or stockbrokers. Frankly, we've had a lot more training than they have, and most of us make less money. Also, if people get their wish, and doctors make the same income as everyone else we'll end up with the Russian version of medicine. If excellence is not rewarded somehow, the excellent go elsewhere. Altruism is wonderful during the daylight hours and 40 hour work weeks.

It is true that greeters work at night, but they don't also work all day. It's almost impossible for someone who's not gone through medical school and residency to understand just how grueling it is. First, you've got four years of college, and when I was there, you needed close to a 4.0 in your science classes to get in to medical school, so I studied nonstop. Then you get into medical school, where your competition is all the other people who also got 4.0's, and everyone wants good grades, because that's how they pick you for residency. Four more years, with even more studying than the first. I cannot tell you how many nights I studied all night long before tests. Then you're a resident. I can only speak for myself, but I worked every day of the week, unless I was lucky enough to be on an elective (three months) when I got the weekends off, athough I was still on call every fourth night, which could end up being a weekend day. The other nine months of the year, not only did I work seven days a week, but I was on call every fourth night. That meant you spent the night in the hospital, and usually were up all night, having to work the entire next day. During this time, I had four children, so when I went home at night, I was a mom, the cook, the housekeeper, the homework helper, the soccer mom etc.

I'm not putting all this down because I felt sorry for myself. But, people need to understand that the greeters at Walmart, as valuable as they are, work an 8 hour shift at most, during which time they're not responsible for people's lives, they're not getting sued, and they're not in massive debt for their greeter training. They haven't given up 11 years of their life to learn how to greet, missing first smiles, first hits in a t-ball game, and years of tucking the children in at night. I did medicine because I loved it and felt called to do it, but if I were compensated like a greeter, and I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't. I gave up too much and missed too much to be paid minimum wage. I'd turn in my stethoscope and learn to greet. I don't think we have enough truly saintly people in this country to provide medical care for everyone who needs it if we paid them like greeters.

Midtowner
02-26-2008, 09:51 PM
Doctors save lives everyday, and many hold lives in their hands everyday. Meanwhile, Britney acts absurd, and collects a fat paycheck for doing so.

Wrong. Spears collects a big paycheck because she creates a hell of a lot of wealth for others. Doctors are also paid to make money for other people (unless they work for themselves). Spears is a unique commodity, doctors, for the most part, are not. Supply and demand dictates what each are paid, not the goodness or helpfulness, but the almighty dollar.


Yes, I'd say Spears and Bryant produce less than doctors. Life would go on without Spears and Bryant. Lives are saved by doctors.

You'd say Spears produces less money than the average doctor? That's demonstrably false.


If we're paid on what we're worth, Spears deserves nothing. She's worthless.

Says you. The people paying her big bucks would disagree.

That's America.

u50254082
02-26-2008, 10:12 PM
Patrick, you chose to go through all of that schooling.

Doctors are no more important than the greeters at Wal-Mart. Everyone serves their purpose in life.

I don't think doctors should get paid as much as they do.


In a way, I almost want to say that you're right because it isn't very ethical to value one human more than the other. (ethical in terms of universalistic/utilitarian views)

But where it ends is that you are essentially saying that rational adults don't deserve the right to pay the price they feel is worthwhile.

If we aren't paying doctors for their social value as people who went to medical school, got board certified, and work to treat the ailments of others, then we at least pay them for taking a risk that most of us wouldn't go near. Having someone's life in your hands and at the mercy of your decision.

If you have the time, check out the Wilt Chamberlain Example (http://web.missouri.edu/~johnsonrn/nozick.html)

kmf563
02-27-2008, 07:28 AM
I will bring up this post if God forbid anything major ever happens to you midtowner. Maybe instead of finding you a doctor we can get brit to sing for you.

I completely disagree. I think a doctor is much more valuable than say Jeffrey Dahmer.

I think those who save and change lives should be paid much more than they are. This includes teachers, social workers, police, emsa, fire fighters, military, doctors, and the people who make beer, chocolate, and cream puffs.

ewoodard
02-27-2008, 08:03 AM
My wife was a CNA in 2 of the cities larger hospitals, and a home health care provider for about 12 years. She got out of that part of the medical field because she saw that most hospitals don't care about the patient as an individual, but as income for the hospital. Charged the patient for everything, and at costs that are well above the retail cost. One example is a patient that was charged $5 for a pair of bootie socks. Hospital execs are making lots of money at the expense of the patient.
I understand that the cost of medical equipment is going up, but to charge extreme prices for every day items like socks, toothpaste, shampoo, etc... is absurd in all honesty. Go to Wal-Mart/SAM'S and buy the stuff in bulk there to reduce costs.
I agree with kmf563 100&#37; about those that save and change peoples lives being underpaid.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-27-2008, 08:15 AM
$5 for bootie socks? That's a FREAKIN STEAL!

I had surgery last month, and my booty socks on my itemized list were $28. They've got cute little paws printed on them though. I'm sure that part was extra.

Midtowner
02-27-2008, 08:26 AM
I will bring up this post if God forbid anything major ever happens to you midtowner. Maybe instead of finding you a doctor we can get brit to sing for you.

We're talking about compensation here. In this country, you are paid based upon how much wealth you create for others. That is the determination of your worth. It's a matter of supply and demand. If I want medical care, there are several hospitals, a dozen clinics and hundreds of private practitioners here in town. All are covered by my insurance. I can see anybody I want for the price of a copay.

You're being silly. If I need of medical care, I go see a doctor, not Spears. I then pay my copay and then my insurance company pays that doctor, his practice, the hospital, etc., whatever the prenegotiated fee is for the service performed.

We also get into an economy of scale. A doctor only helps one person at a time. Spears, while not really helping many people, is compensated a little differently. When someone plays a Spears song or buys one of her songs for their Ipod, the money from that purchase is distributed to several entities. Among those is Spears. If Spears has had eight #1 songs and is among the top selling performers of all time. The amount of wealth she has created for others compared to what an average doctor creates is not even remotely comparable.

We're talking money here, not warm fuzzies.


I completely disagree. I think a doctor is much more valuable than say Jeffrey Dahmer.

How much was Dahmer paid for what he did? I'm pretty sure no one paid him. I don't see how this statement even remotely applies to anything I've ever said.

Assuming arguendo Dahmer's image might be marketable somewhere, maybe on t-shirts sold at Hot Topix, and since Dahmer's dead, he's not going to benefit from that. He wasn't paid anything by his victims, so you have nothing there. The folks who profit are those who profit from a certain niche market. Do they [the hypothetical t-shirt people] make more profit than your average doctor? We're waaay out on a hypothetical limb, but say it's a Hot Topix shirt, again, we're talking an economy of scale. There are how many Hot Topix store and how many "unique" teenagers who would pay money for such a product? Versus a doctor who can only serve one patient at a time? There's your answer.


I think those who save and change lives should be paid much more than they are. This includes teachers, social workers, police, emsa, fire fighters, military, doctors, and the people who make beer, chocolate, and cream puffs.

Policemen, EMSA and the Fire Department folks all do pretty well. Teachers and social workers? You'll get no argument from me. These folks, however, are in a different class (EMSA, arguably not). These folks are public servants. Their compensation is based more upon political power, supply of workers, and the availability of public funds to pay them. If you want to pay teachers and social workers more, are you willing to pay more taxes? Do without a state agency? Fall further behind on our road maintenance? That's the choice that has to be made with public employees.

With doctors, we have a different situation. Doctors can do really, really well depending on their specialty. It's the economy of scale thing again though. If you go to Advanced Laser Center, you might get to see a real Opthamologist for 15 minutes. You stand in line to have your surgery. The guy is capable of producing about $5,600/hr, assuming he's doing the LASIK procedure, that the surgeries take around 15 minutes (they take less time than that) and assuming that each patient has both eyes fixed. Sure, there's probably massive overhead, but Dr. John Bellardo isn't hurting for money at all.

Then there are your doctors who are public employees. A very good friend of mine is a doctor at the V.A. He doesn't make as much as John Bellardo. Does he save lives? Yep. Does Bellardo? Nope. Which one creates more wealth though? Bellardo, by a long shot. My friend at the V.A. has participated in major research, breakthrough stuff which will really improve the quality of life for many people. He's a public employee though, so he's paid like a teacher. I'm not sure the same sort of work is available in the private sector.

We don't pay people for creating warm fuzzies (unless those people are public employees).

kmf563
02-27-2008, 08:43 AM
Sorry Midtowner, I meant for that to be for jsenter not you. Jsenter said everyone serves their purpose in life. I think doctors serve a higher purpose than Dahmer - that was my point.

ewoodard
02-27-2008, 12:15 PM
$5 for bootie socks? That's a FREAKIN STEAL!

I had surgery last month, and my booty socks on my itemized list were $28. They've got cute little paws printed on them though. I'm sure that part was extra.

That was about 5-6 years ago when she told the cost, and that was per pair if I remember correctly.

betts
02-27-2008, 03:06 PM
You'll pay more than that for a single Tylenol if you're hospitalized nowadays.

Patrick
02-27-2008, 03:59 PM
Big hospital corporations have to stay rich! Doctors sure aren't seeing it. I'm ready to unionize.

Oh GAWD the Smell!
02-28-2008, 01:34 AM
Big hospital corporations have to stay rich! Doctors sure aren't seeing it. I'm ready to unionize.

http://members.cox.net/imawingnut/smileys/slap.gif

Patrick
02-28-2008, 07:37 PM
http://members.cox.net/imawingnut/smileys/slap.gif

:gossip:

oneforone
03-02-2008, 11:30 AM
I work in a hospital. One of our biggest problems is people who do not pay their medical bills. Many times hospitals have to charge the paying paitents more to offset those who do not pay.

I do not understand why you can walk away from a hospital and not pay a dime of your bill. If you did that at a restaurant or at an auto repair place you would go to jail for theft of services.

I think hospitals need a method to recover the lost expenses on those that do not pay.

SouthsideSooner
03-02-2008, 11:41 AM
I have a sneaky feeling that jsenter is a greeter at Wal-Mart.

solitude
03-02-2008, 11:44 AM
I work in a hospital. One of our biggest problems is people who do not pay their medical bills. Many times hospitals have to charge the paying paitents more to offset those who do not pay.

I do not understand why you can walk away from a hospital and not pay a dime of your bill. If you did that at a restaurant or at an auto repair place you would go to jail for theft of services.

I think hospitals need a method to recover the lost expenses on those that do not pay.

First of all, trying to compare health care with auto repair and eating out at a restaurant is stretching it a little. You can always choose to not get your car fixed, or choose not to eat out, but nobody makes the decision to have a brain aneurysm.

The answer to your question is rather simple and shows why we need a way to make sure all Americans have access to affordable health care; per your question, the answer is that some people need emergency care - and have no way to pay for it! And with $6.50 aspirin and other huge markups to maintain large profits at these hospitals, it's easy - without insurance - to not be able to afford it. And, btw, when it comes to "non-profits" in hospitals - that's a huge joke. Scandalous, really.

You do realize that the idea of privately paying for care and the state of your health depending on the size of your wealth, is a totally alien and bizarre concept in the rest of the civilized world?

I had a foreign exchange student tell me they were left with their jaw on the floor after seeing a hospital advertise on TV that they offer "better chances" of survival if you go to their hospital. Sadly, we are used to it and don't think much of it. This would be unheard of - and barbaric - in all other western industrialized countries.

SouthsideSooner
03-02-2008, 11:54 AM
Karried, my wife and I are in the same boat you're in and a few weeks ago it happened.

I had a heart attack.

I haven't got the breakdown of what it's going to cost me yet but I'm sure it will be less than what I would have paid, had I paid a much higher premium for a lower deductable over the 8 years we've been self-employeed.

I will say the care I received at both Community Hospital in far south OKC and then St. Anthonys was outstanding.

Thank God I had those medical professionals to save me instead of having to hope a Wal-Mart greeter might be able to help.

SouthsideSooner
03-02-2008, 11:58 AM
Regardless of what else is wrong with our health care system, I don't believe that doctors are over-paid.

solitude
03-02-2008, 12:22 PM
Regardless of what else is wrong with our health care system, I don't believe that doctors are over-paid.

Agreed.

Karried
03-02-2008, 01:13 PM
Karried, my wife and I are in the same boat you're in and a few weeks ago it happened.

I had a heart attack.



Omg... are you serious? sheesh, that is horrible.

Wow. I hope you are doing okay....


Originally Posted by SouthsideSooner http://www.okctalk.com/images/vbe2blue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.okctalk.com/health-fitness/10329-doctors-overpaid-2.html#post130166)
Regardless of what else is wrong with our health care system, I don't believe that doctors are over-paid.


I just know that there is something seriously flawed with this system.

Maybe over-paid is the wrong terminology.. just paid a heck of a lot than most.

My next door neighbor is a neurosurgeon - new Mercedes every other month, nannies, private schools, moving to a million dollar home in a few months ..... enough said.

I wish I knew the solution.

SouthsideSooner
03-02-2008, 04:10 PM
Omg... are you serious? sheesh, that is horrible.

Wow. I hope you are doing okay....



I just know that there is something seriously flawed with this system.

Maybe over-paid is the wrong terminology.. just paid a heck of a lot than most.

My next door neighbor is a neurosurgeon - new Mercedes every other month, nannies, private schools, moving to a million dollar home in a few months ..... enough said.

I wish I knew the solution.


Thank you, I recognized the symptoms right away, got right to the hospital and I'm doing great. There was no permanent damage done. When caught early, the angioplasty(sp) and stint are a pretty minor procedure as far as recovery is concerned.

I'm only 50 and have never had any problems like this. I was just shocked that it happened to me but I smoked and have never paid much attention to eating healthy.

It was probably the wake-up call I needed, as I've been smoke free for 18 days now and am eating responsibly.

Anyway, although it happens, I don't see most doctors leading the lifestyle you describe.

betts
03-02-2008, 04:28 PM
My next door neighbor is a neurosurgeon - new Mercedes every other month, nannies, private schools, moving to a million dollar home in a few months ..... enough said.

I wish I knew the solution.

It's hard to know what the right answer to this is. One of the bigger problems in reimbursement in medicine is the fact that the word "surgeon" in your name guarantees you quadruple the fees (at the least) of a doctor who doesn't do surgery. Hence your neurosurgeon neighbor having a lot of money. There needs to be some way of equalizing the pay better. Surgeons have more of a mystique, because they can cut you open and put you back together. But sometimes, having a doctor with a good brain is as or more important, and we don't reward using your brain with money. Hence nowadays, the smartest students typically want to go into the most lucrative fields, which is foolish. We need doctors with good hands in the operating room, and doctors with good brains managing your body's physiology.

Then you have to ask what a fair amount of money is. I do know your neighbor spent four years in medical school after undergraduate, then did a five year surgical residency, so he was probably 32 or so when he finished. If he had done something else, he would have been out making money far earlier. And he might have huge loans from medical school. Some doctors work 60 to 80 hours a week, so it's not unreasonable for them to make twice what someone working 40 hours a week makes. And I had dinner with a lawyer the other night who is working on a lawsuit involving a couple of doctors. He told me he was "shocked" at how little these doctors made, so I'm guessing he makes quite a bit more. How do you decide what is fair compensation for any profession? I don't know the answer to that question. I do know I'd rather pay my doctor more and my lawyer less.

centralparker
09-19-2008, 07:04 PM
I realize Karried started this thread with her question over a year ago, but I thought I'd add an answer about the difference in costs for self-pay. It's pretty much standard practice to offer discounts for self-pay in all areas of health care. When you have someone willing to pay at the time of service, you cut out the collection process. You don't have the costs associated with the billing staff verifying insurance, submitting claims, handling denials, etc. for that particular product or service.

bluedogok
09-20-2008, 10:47 AM
Like every other vocation some are overpaid and some are underpaid, there is nothing fair and equitable when it comes to pay for any particular line of work. For the most part people who push piles of money around like a shell game are the ones who make ridiculous amounts of of money in comparison, CEO's and the like.

BailJumper
09-20-2008, 02:08 PM
Saw someone else mention BCBS insurance. I'm self employed and that is what me and the kids are one (wife has her own through her employer). BCBS was much cheaper than going through the wife's insurance and I think we pay about $300 a month and the coverage is good.

You also have to keep in mind that you and I have to cover all the deadbeats that use the ER are their personal doctor's office.

dismayed
09-20-2008, 04:38 PM
You know, there are general practitioners, e.g. your family doctors, in the metro who are making on the order of $45-50k a year.

The very large salaries, the folks making $300k a year or more, are surgeons. How much should a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon be worth? If you had to have your brain sliced up by someone would you prefer it be done by the lowest bidder?

There are many, many people in this city in many different fields making $100k plus per year. Usually these are professionals of some sort with perhaps 8-10 years experience in whatever their field is. Most probably have a 4-year degree. If it takes a medical professional a decade before they can graduate and start making money, in some ways they are already behind the earnings curve of many of their friends who went out and got one of those professional jobs 8 years before. I think if you look at it from this perspective, and also consider that most physicians are saddled with thousands of dollars in debt (perhaps $100k) and then enter the work force only to find that they have to insure themselves from petty lawsuits at the cost of hundreds of dollars a month, then I think the economics of it all might make more sense.

There is a certain cost there that you just can't get around unless you want to step in and do away with the free market in this realm. And I'm pretty sure in all of the countries that have actually done this lowering the compensation for doctors wasn't the way they did it. Doctors in the UK still make $100k+ a year....